Some Interesting essays

wavefreak
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Some Interesting essays

http://www.edge.org/q2008/q08_1.html

 

This is a bunch of essays by "thinkers" that have changed their minds on some important idea. 


I AM GOD AS YOU
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   thanks wave, nice

   thanks wave,

nice find, lots of interesting essays, got a favorite or 2, 3  ?

I'll check it out .... I added it to my cool sites folder

ever go tripping with fun Alan Watts ? a dancer with words .... !  you're pretty good yourself , you rascal .... 

 


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Quote: Maybe

Quote:
Maybe intelligent life is so unimaginably different from us that we are looking in all the wrong "places." Maybe really intelligent life forms hide their presence.So I changed my mind. I now take the null hypothesis very seriously: that Sagan and Shklovskii were wrong: that the number of advanced technical civilizations in our galaxy is exactly one, that the number of advanced technical civilizations in the universe is exactly one.What is the implication of the possibility, mounting a bit every day, that we are alone in the universe? It reverses the millennial progression from a geocentric to a heliocentric to a Milky Way centered universe, back to, of all things, a geocentric universe. We are the solitary point of light in a darkness without end. It means that we are precious, infinitely so. It means that nuclear or environmental cataclysm is an infinitely worse fate than we thought.

I think his conclusion about the probability of intelligent life is a bit pessimistic.  After all, at best, we can only hope to ever explore our own galaxy incompletely.  There are so many galaxies!

However, on a functional level, I think he's right.  We will almost certainly never encounter another intelligence.  For all intents and purposes, we are alone, and environmental or nuclear cataclysm is the worst of all possible fates.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Quote: In a nutshell, what

Quote:
In a nutshell, what Karim showed was that each time a memory is used, it has to be restored as a new memory in order to be accessible later. The old memory is either not there or is inaccessible. In short, your memory about something is only as good as your last memory about it. This is why people who witness crimes testify about what they read in the paper rather than what they witnessed. Research on this topic, called reconsolidation, has become the basis of a possible treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder, drug addiction, and any other disorder that is based on learning.

I've heard of this research, and the conclusions make sense to me.  I've even been able to conduct "experiments" on myself, where I can consciously remake an insignificant memory.  It's pretty cool -- you simply pick a memory and change it.  The first time, you will recognize the dichotomy, along with the second, third, and tenth times.  After a while, though, it's possible to make yourself unsure of what you were originally trying to change.  Wacky stuff.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Quote: Scientists — with

Quote:
Scientists — with a few eccentric exceptions — are, perhaps, the one group of experts who have never claimed for themselves wisdom outside the narrow confines of their specialties. Paradoxically, they are the one group who are blamed for the mistakes of others. Science and scientists are criticized for judgments about weapons, stem cells, global warming, nuclear power, when the decisions are made by people who are not scientists.

Dude.  This is a good site.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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wavefreak
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Hambydammit wrote: Dude.

Hambydammit wrote:


Dude. This is a good site.

 

Thought you all might find some gems.  


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Quote: I think his

Quote:

I think his conclusion about the probability of intelligent life is a bit pessimistic.

I think you are correct, from a biological standpoint, the proposition of only being a singular intelligent life form is dubious at best. In the fight between the Anthropic Principle and the Principle of Mediocrity, the more intricately complex something is, the less likely it is to be the result of one-off events. This is tidy logic, because opposing it will commit the gambler's fallacy. It is exceedingly unlikely that biological life arose from a series of random fluctuations in entropy, for example. Such existences necessitate non-random processes and guidances for their existences. Similarily, the idea that Dawkins presented, that perhaps life is ubiquitous but conscious life is unique, is on very shaky ground for the simple reason I just described above. The mere fact that there are so many opportunities for it to arise does in no way provide a satisfactory explanation for why it is so complex, in much the same way that whilst entropic fluctuations could describe, say, the random coalescence of water into small pockets of ordered ice within a glass could be explained, but certainly not the whole glass freezing if we wait around long enough (the mere addition of more time or glasses by itself would not increase the probability in any way). 

I thought Dawkins was very wrong in the God Delusion the way he described the Origin of life as an exceedingly improbable event that kick-started natural selection. Chemical evolution is a well-established principle, following precisely the same laws of natural selection as does biological evolution. It is not a game of accepting one or the other. The logic is the same, and you must bite the bullet if you ditch chemical evolution.  

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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deludedgod

deludedgod wrote:

Quote:

I think his conclusion about the probability of intelligent life is a bit pessimistic.

I think you are correct, from a biological standpoint, the proposition of only being a singular intelligent life form is dubious at best. In the fight between the Anthropic Principle and the Principle of Mediocrity, the more intricately complex something is, the less likely it is to be the result of one-off events. This is tidy logic, because opposing it will commit the gambler's fallacy. It is exceedingly unlikely that biological life arose from a series of random fluctuations in entropy, for example. Such existences necessitate non-random processes and guidances for their existences. Similarily, the idea that Dawkins presented, that perhaps life is ubiquitous but conscious life is unique, is on very shaky ground for the simple reason I just described above. The mere fact that there are so many opportunities for it to arise does in no way provide a satisfactory explanation for why it is so complex, in much the same way that whilst entropic fluctuations could describe, say, the random coalescence of water into small pockets of ordered ice within a glass could be explained, but certainly not the whole glass freezing if we wait around long enough (the mere addition of more time or glasses by itself would not increase the probability in any way). 

I thought Dawkins was very wrong in the God Delusion the way he described the Origin of life as an exceedingly improbable event that kick-started natural selection. Chemical evolution is a well-established principle, following precisely the same laws of natural selection as does biological evolution. It is not a game of accepting one or the other. The logic is the same, and you must bite the bullet if you ditch chemical evolution.  

What do you think the chances are for two different species of intelligent creatures from two different planets actually being able to survive long enough to become a spacefaring species and actually running into each other?

I think that most likely there was intellegent life that arose on some planet well before us, some contemperous with us, and some will come after us.

But I think the chance of any two of them finding each other during the life of their species or their descendents as slim.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


deludedgod
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Quote: What do you think

Quote:

What do you think the chances are for two different species of intelligent creatures from two different planets actually being able to survive long enough to become a spacefaring species and actually running into each other?

Two words: No data.

Carl Sagan responded in this way to a reporter who asked him the same question, that there was no evidence and no data that could help produce any number or answer as wanted that would not be wild guesswork. And the reporter pressed Sagan for his "gut feeling" on the matter.

Carl responded with something that has since become laconic legend: "But I try not to think with my gut".

My answer is the same. 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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