Atheists and healthcare
Offline Hello all,
I'm new to the forum. I'd like to start things off with an issue which will preoccupy us all in good time. The issue of healthcare I think has particular relevance to atheists, non-believers, free-thinkers, etc.. From the standpoint of evolutionary biology, our purpose is to propogate our genome into succeeding generations. Our ancestors likely mated and raised families in their early teens with the offspring nurtured by parents, grandparents and likely great-grandparents (who were likely in their mid to late 30s) who were part of the tribe. Our lifespan in ancient times was likely much shorter due to infectious disease, war, famine, etc.. We were shaped by natural selection to live this way for the greater part of our 100,000 year history.
With the advent of modern civilization and medicine (antibiotics, vaccinations, surgery, preventive medicine, chemotherapy, etc..) we are at a time when more of us will become centenarians. But at what cost!! Our genome is not prepared for the consequences of aging. In fact, the older we get even if we do our level best to control risk factors (smoking cessation, exercise, healthy diet, etc..) many of us will succumb to dementia, cancer and cardiovascular disease (simply because of age related arteriosclerosis). From an evolutionary standpoint, we were never meant to become centenarians. Thus we have an aging population with an ill equipped genome.
Apart from the US, most developed nations have some form of universal healthcare and they will be the most prepared for this inevitable outcome. Those nations have a system to care for the elderly. The Christian majority in America scream communism at the very mention of universal healthcare. Although I tend to be very libertarian on many issues, healthcare is one which I think is a collective burden. With older and sicker population, the current American health system is not sustainable. And this is even if you treat your body right. Imagine the 50 million who are uninsured and suffer most health problems. To make matters worse we are not only getting older but also fatter. Fat, a great evolutionary advantage in times of food scarcity. However today, it is clearly maladaptive and associated with diabetes, stroke, cardiovascular disease and sleep apnea.
Given that atheists and all rational responders are sympathetic to our evolutionary origins and the implications of my above long winded diatribe, do atheists overall think that healthcare is a collective societal burden? Do atheists agree with universal healthcare even though it is an imperfect system? Are the Canadian and European models the ones that the US should adopt? Or do you hate the idea of living to a 100 and beyond and call it quits at say 80 (or before)? Personally, I would hate the idea of being a 100, demented, crapping my pants to eventually die in a nursing home. But that's just me.
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welcome to the forums, ragdish!
the only think all atheists share is a lack of belief in god although i'm sure some people here would be happy to share their various opinions on this topic with you.
Firstly, if it weren't for a public health system I would be dead. So I raise my middle finger to all idiots who parrot right-wing ideological dogma.
Secondly, evolution does not have a plan, it is not a conscious thing, there is no right or wrong. We are not detrimenting our genome with our collective solidarity towards one another. Our genome is shaped by the world we live in. It is best in the long run I think that we look after the physically weak, as sometimes they have superior brains. eg Stephen Hawking.
Hi ragdish. I support socialized healthcare for all...up to a point.
However, my view of geriatric medicine is rather Spartan in concept. I believe that all humans once they have reached advanced age and who fail to contribute to society should be....draws index finger across throat in cutting motion.
( No, I'm just kidding about old people
... in fact I have been helping to care for my very old grandfather so that he can still enjoy some measure of independence by living in his own home and avoid being placed in a nursing facility. )
Welcome to the forum.
Healthcare really isnt a theist or atheist issue as such. In fact in most the Western world the principles of it arent an issue full stop (US is the exception and paying for healthcare is always an issue
.
What is the RRS policy on politics that isnt directly linked to religion. I'm not an American but as the RRS is pressure group I offer advise to avoid it at all costs just leads to division
Consider:
~ Modern medicine was not "meant to be." It is a result of us growing smart, which was probably a result of random female selection*
~ We can see many examples of species that outgrow their environment and then experience a great thinning, usually from disease or starvation
~ We also see the danger of introducing non-native species into new habitats. Witness the africanized honeybees, frankenfish, cudzu, and fire ants.
~ Until modern medicine, humans experienced the same sort of population adjustments (read: plague)
~ Until agriculture was discovered, starvation kept the population in check.
~ Without modern medicine, many babies would die in infancy, and many mothers would die in childbirth.
There are scientists who believe that modern medicine could actually work against evolution, by propogating genetic models that would not, under "natural" circumstances, survive. The end result is a more poorly adapted creature.
I say all of this not to suggest that we avoid modern medicine. However, it's worth considering that there are many babies who should not live past infancy, and for fuck's sake, if a couple is infertile, it might damn well be natural selection trying to tell them something! Fertility clinics, IMHO, are an abomination. There are enough damn people, and there are plenty of kids who need to be adopted.
I'd suggest that a thorough reevaluation of our attitudes towards parenting and reproduction would help in easing the long term problems of an aging society. In the short term, it would create a substantial imbalance, but in the long run, I think it would help. Population decrease increases the relative number of per capita resources, after all.
Now, as far as how to handle healthcare, I can only echo what has already been said. Atheists::Healthcare = People Named Bob::Favorite Restaurant.
My opinion is that if you encourage people to make lots of babies, and then try to keep them alive as long as possible, you owe it to them to keep them comfortable. I don't really get into politics here, but I will say that the healthcare debate in America is so convoluted that there's no real hope of addressing real issues. It's just a political stump -- none of the politicians seem to have any desire to make a change for the better. After all, they have great insurance, and don't need public healthcare.
*Read "The Mating Mind" by Geoffrey Miller for more on this.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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