The Persecuted Church
Posted on: November 11, 2007 - 8:44am
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The Persecuted Church
Today (November 11) is the "International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted [Christian] Church".
Here in America, we believe we are "persecuted" when we get a dirty look or someone says something mean or that makes us feel uncomfortable. If we have to read a religious phrase in a public space, or hear a religious song.
Around the world (mostly in Asia and Africa), Christians are imprisoned, tortured, and killed for their beliefs.
Say what you like about Christianity (please don't say the negative stuff in this thread), would you agree no one should be persecuted in this way?
Thanks!
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Yes. Americans, myself included, have a standard of living whcih skews their definitions of things like persecution. For American Christians to claim they are persecuted,as is often the case, is beyond ridiculous. Not having everyone bow to one's beliefs is not persecution.
Not only Christians but in many areas all religious peoples, in some areas atheists, in many places those with a different political ideology, in many places those who are of a different race, those who happen to be born in a different geographic location. It is a problem that is far bigger than simply one sect, religious or otherwise, being persecuted.
Yes I would agree. Sadly, I think religious ideologies with their oft divisive dogmas only contribute to the problem.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
Okay, I'm going to call bullshit on the American part of this post. I will agree that people are killed for religion often in the third world; however, you are going to call a dirty look persecution?!?!
Well, if you feel uncomfortable getting one nasty look for a religious comment when 90% of the crowd is smiling at you, then don't become an atheist. You'll have a breakdown. Imagine being the only person in a room of 250 that refuses to take communion. I was at a wedding of a cousin recently. Everyone there knew me and knew that I had been raised in the Church. Each one of them gave me a foul look as they passed me to the alter.
So, if dirty looks is a sign of being persecuted, then I should request assistance from the UN.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Give me a break. I'm so tired of American Christians pulling this pathetic card.
"Oh, please don't criticise and point out the obvious problems with my religion. Your persecuting me."
Grow up. Just because you can't violate church/state separation and force your brand of sky daddy nonsense down other peoples throats, does not mean your being silenced and persecuted. Kind of hard for the majority to be persecuted anyway. Maybe Christians should take Jesus's advice and pray behind closed doors.
(edit)
Until you guys truly start getting persecuted, aside from dirty looks and the occasional honest criticism/opinion, don't expect me to shed a single tear for you.
I hope they cannot see
the limitless potential
living inside of me
to murder everything.
I hope they cannot see
I am the great destroyer.
When I went to my great-grandmother's funeral I actually didn't go to receive communion out of respect for these ludacris theistic beliefs. I could have just gone and swallowed the wafer and gone on with my mourning. However, I figured since they believed it was the body of christ and that I wasn't 'worthy' (even though this was like 10 years ago and only I knew I didn't believe) I would stay seated out of respect for their supposed holy bread.
Of course I watched a bunch of my relatives who I knew hadn't been to church in ages and were real assholes go up for communion. One in particular was a wife beater. Anyway, after the service everyone had to confront me on why I didn't go up. My grandmother even hit me as part of her scolding.
I no longer respect these irrational beliefs but I still wouldn't go up there.
Amen, brother.
In fact, I'd posit there's no such thing as true persecution against Christians in America.
I'd suggest the OP try living as an out-of-the-closet atheist for awhile and see which path is harder. I've learned that people really, really, REALLY don't like atheists. I've learned that the people in this community, including my family, magnify my faults and minimize my good qualities. They have the audacity to claim I am hate-filled. No, I'm angry...and not angry enough by half.
Check this out: Life in Our Anti-Christian America
Here's an excerpt:
I'm certainly glad this has finally been brought out into the open. The anti-Christian bias in our society has reached absurd proportions. Consider:
1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that Christians should not be considered patriots or real American citizens.
2. Bill Clinton steadfastly refuses to give any speeches at local churches.
3. Both major political parties are dominated by anti-Christians. The Republican party, for example, gave us such hard-core atheists as Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the Democrats have given us such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther King and the Rev. Jesse Jackson-- both noted for their vicious attacks on all forms of Christianity.
4. Let's talk about the media. On Sunday mornings, nearly all major television channels broadcast pro-atheist shows; it is nearly impossible to find religious programming during that time period. Further, Madalyn Murray O'Hair has her own cable TV channel, while Pat Robertson has been unable to obtain one for himself.
5. Most major newspapers run a special weekly section devoted to atheism. There are no equivalent sections for religious news.
6. Anti-Christian shows such as the American Atheist Forum are broadcast by major national networks. Meanwhile, Billy Graham is only able to get on the air through public access TV, which is watched by few people.
7. On news programs and "reality" TV shows such as Rescue 911, nobody is ever shown giving thanks to God after surviving a disaster.
8. It is almost impossible to find a shopping mall with a Christian Armory book store, while Atheist Book Centers are featured prominently on every corner.
9. While atheists couples who marry rarely have any difficulty finding a place to do so, it is nearly impossible for Christian couples to find a church where they can marry.
10. For that matter, churches themselves are extremely rare, while atheist meeting centers can be found every few blocks.
11. Recently, several atheists have shot and killed Christian priests as they were going to work in their churches. Similarly, atheists are well known for blockading churches on Sunday mornings.
12. Nearly all of our elected public officials are atheists; they even have to swear on a copy of Darwin's "Origin of Species" in order to take office.
13. In a similar vein, jurors must take an oath upon a copy of the Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have even been court cases thrown out because one of the jury members was a Christian who insisted on swearing on a Bible.
14. And of course, people are free to wear pentagram jewelry, but those trying to wear cross-shaped earrings or pendants to work will be politely told to remove the jewelry or lose their job.
15. Speaking of the workplace, Christians often find it nearly impossible to get time off work for religious holidays such as Christmas.
16. Even our language reflects the radical anti-Christian bias that pervades our society. For example, when somebody sneezes, most people say "Darwin bless you". Similarly, "Voltaire dammit!" is a common cussword.
17. All of our money has the atheistic slogan "We do not trust in God" printed on it. (Contributed by Mike Hurben, <[email protected]>.)
18. In school, our children are made to recite the pledge, "One nation, anti-God, indivisible...." (Contributed by Mike Hurben.)
19. One cannot rent a hotel room without finding a copy of Nietzsche's The Anti-Christ in the room. (Contributed by Mike Hurben.)
20. Organizations such as the Boy Scouts deny membership to Christians. (Contributed by Mike Hurben.)
21. In the military, it is nearly impossible to obtain Conscientious Objector status for religious reasons, even though those with philosophical reasons can obtain C.O. status relatively easily. (Contributed anonymously.)
22. Christian churches are forced to pay exorbitant taxes. (Contributed by Rick Gillespie, <[email protected]>.)
23. You can't drive anywhere without seeing a Darwin fish or a "Jesus Was A Fraud" bumper sticker stuck to a car. (Contributed by Rick Gillespie.)
24. Georgia recently passed a new law requiring schools to have a "moment of noise" during which children are encouraged to degrade Christianity. (Contributed by Rick Gillespie.)
25. College campuses usually have dozens of atheist organizations, but few if any for Christians. (Contributed by Mark Anstrom, <[email protected]>.)
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Nice, Iruka.
I don't like it when go off on this whole 'We're being persecuted' stuff.
Oh, us Christians are being persecuted.
or
Oh, us atheists are being persecuted.
Persecution of any people, be they atheist or Christian is morally irrehensable.
We should be fighting to stop all forms of persecution, not just the ones that are of our beliefs.
Those poor, poor christians, and the looks they have to endure.
Your post isn't clear; is this what you're trying to say?
1. American atheists don't like the unconstitutional endorsement of monotheism in the public square, boo hoo for them.
2. Christians are physically harmed in other countries, so forget about the aforementioned American unconstitutionality.
If that's your line of reasoning, I could see why you wouldn't want negative examples of Christianity brought into this thread. Also, you could trivialize almost any first world problem based on the notion that it 'could be worse.'
Ok, so real persecution is wrong. I don't think American Xians can say they're persecuted but quite clearly yanky atheists do suffer social persecution.
I would much rather have the 11th November as Remembrance Day which is where we Brits wear little paper poppy badges and remember the dead in the wars.
Atheist Books
????
Would you mind translating what that means to us "yankys".
Actually, here in Texas, we usually consider us being called yankys rather offensive because of the American Civil War(The Confederacy were Rebels, the Union were Yanks). Doesn't bother me, but you know...just throwing it out there. lol
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
This reminds me of the Dave Berg cartoon in Mad so many years ago. A bunch of American tourists came across some "Yankee Go Home" graffiti. The tourguide apologized profusely, but one of the tourists said, "Don't y'all worry about that. We're from the south."
Thandarr
[email protected]
Huh. Here in NJ being called a yankee is a source of pride. Go figure. :P Though I thought yankee was more about the revolutionary war than the civil.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Yank is a term we use for Americans.
I'll explain the paper poppy badges for Watcher. They're poppies made out of red and green card supplied by the British Legion every November. Poppies are a kind of flower, normally red that are used to make opium. Opium has nothing to do with this custom though. After WWI, they were the first flowers to start growing again on the Front line so it became a symbol of the great loss that we'd suffered. So on the day that the war stopped (11th hour, 11th day, 11th month) we wear poppies (paper ones) and remember those who have died in war (which has been extended from WWI to WWII and then to all wars around the world).
Atheist Books
I don't doubt that the term yankee precedes the civil war, however during the civil war southerners were characterized as "Johnny Reb". The South tried to break away from the Union and therefore become distinct from American Yankees. Texans seem to still feel a difference from that.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
Sorry, there seems to have been a fair amount of confusion on that
I was arguing neither American Christians nor atheists are persecuted by hurt feelings.
There are other threads where we can argue the Constitutionality of references to God in the public square.
Sorry, I thought you were being a super douche. I was wrong.
Thanks... I think
Fun fact: the term "yankee" for Americans actually came from the Dutch in 17th century New Amsterdam. Two very common names in Dutch are John and Cornelius; their diminutives are Jan (say "yahn"
and Kees (say "case"
. Run them together and you get...Jan Kees...yankees.
This is primarily a British and British-inflected thing. Many Canadians wear poppies on Rememberance Day, but Americans don't celebrate it at all.
--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
You've got that bit at the end a bit wrong. Poppies are a symbol of Remembrance Day in Canada and most of the rest of the Commonwealth as well as other countries (Like France). Other names are Poppy Day and Armistice Day. The day is meant to commemorate the sacrifice of members of armed forces since the First World War. It's an understatement to say, 'Many Canadians wear poppies on Rememberance (sic) Day, ...'. And it's not entirely true to say, 'This is primarily a British and British-inflected thing.' since it's not.
Incidentally, the poppy has been revised in Canada to have the black center that the poppy actually has and not a green center (poppies haven't got green centers).
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
I stand corrected about France (since I don't think they'd enjoy being referred to as "British-inflected"
. What I was going for was Commonwealth, but even that is not as accurate as I want.
What I should have said was:
--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
haha. I don't think that French would enjoy it either. Otherwise, exactly, they celebrate Veterans Day. It's different.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."