What is with Christian music?
Offline This was something touched upon in another thread, but I thought I'd make a new thread dedicated to this subject.
I hope this doesn't sound like I'm being nitpicky about religion... but what is up with Christian music? Even when I was still a (Mormon) Christan, I found the supposedly "modern" religious music to be so empty, as if it were hollow. One member here suggested that it's because religion in general doesn't respect human achievement much. I think that one big issue with Christian music is that the nature of religion is that you're supposed to have all the answers. A lot of the best music and art deals with personal problems, the deficiencies of society and the universe. But modern Christian music doesn't have that, because it basically involves you already knowing all the answers and everything's great... and even if it isn't, Jesus is looking out for you. I think this is why plays like Hamlet are so powerful -- because their setting is a pre-Christian Europe, where the characters can actually ponder these deep questions without getting the pat answer from the Church like the morality play Faustus has. In the end, Christian music is little more than the old hymns set to modern music.
What are your thoughts?
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It's a really good theory.
I'm trying to think of other songs that are really popular that have such a bland message, and I'm not thinking of any.
Of course, many Christian love songs pretend to be about the ecstatic love that Christians feel for Jesus. The thing is, I've only met a handful of people who actually seemed to feel such a thing. I thought they were a bit looney, myself.
Anyway, I like the theory. I shall adopt it into my repertoire, if you don't mind.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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No wonder i dislike christian music so much, i dislike almost as much as i dislike hymns. Man did i hate the 5 or 6 times i had to sing those damn things.
Happy musicis better for brain washing. But there is some Christian music that rises above the typical "God is great, Jesus loves you, don't worry be happy" tripe. He's Alive by Don Francisco is a song about the disciples during the three days between the Cruxifixion and resurrection that played on the fear and anxiety they may have felt. Songs with deep emotions and feelings are more a product of the musican's talent. There is tons of secular crapola as well.
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I hate modern Christian music. I find it insipid and mind-numbing. However, I love the old hymns. That was my favorite thing about church. Some of the music sucked, but many of the older hymns and the negro spirituals (that's what they're called. I'm not being racist) are really lovely and fun to sing. And the Christmas carols about Jesus instead of Santa Claus are lovely as well. When Christian music is trying to imitate rock it's usually awful, but people rather good at composing music once wrote Christian songs, and many of them are quite pretty.
I think that the crappiness of Christian music has more to do with the fact that the whole "you were made by God and he loves you and you are special" ideology gives talentless hacks the idea that they can actually write good songs than it has to do with disrespecting human achievement (not that I don't think Christians can tend to have a lack of respect for human achievement; I'll punch the next person I hear praising their god for helping them survive some horrible accident or sickness).
Also, I don't think that the "we have all the answers" ideology is as universally Christian as you seem to think it is. I remember growing up as a Christian and being taught the ideology that we don't know all the answers, but we shouldn't worry because God does and he's got our backs, which, to me, seems almost more dangerous to a rationally-predisposed person, as it promotes a lack of interest in scientific endevours (i.e. "we can't know everything, so why bother trying to learn all this stuff?"
.
I tend to enjoy the old hymns more than the contemporary songs anyways. At lest most of the hymns were written by people who had some semblance of an idea of how to write music. I went to a contemporary service the other week and thought I had stumbled upon a live performance of "Barney and Friends ruin a young man's Sunday morning."
Christian music is mind-numbingly simple in chord structure too. Something like G, Daug7 (I think?), A, C. Mix those chords around in any order and you have ever worship song ever written. It's not even done tastefully.
I can't even beging to express how I don't consider Christian music to be music.
Sometimes you surprise me Losingstreak. I almost feel like I need to reconsider my position. When I agree with you this much, I immediately feel like there must be something wrong with my logic.
(Sorry... I could just let go of your statement that you abhor logical thought, but it's too much fun to keep bringing it up.)
It's not universally professed by Christians, but it's logically inherent in the dogma.
Which is equivalent to having all the answers, thus my previous statement.
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I agree with you again!
Damn.... I'm trying to be as mean to you as possible, but I can't stop nodding in agreement....
ARGH!
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I admit, some of Barney's songs are more catchy than the Christian songs I've heard recently.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
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Yeah. Like pop music isn't run through a "what's gonna sell best" filter. Christian music can be VERY insipid and simple. But look up Kidz Bop on the internet for some quality secular music. GAK!
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LOL. I cringe with empathetic response.
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The OP didn't mention "secular" music, so I didn't address it.
I think there's a difference. Since the invention of recording technology, there have been corporations interested in what would sell the best. This is no secret, and you make a very strong point. Menudo should never have happened.
There has always been the fluffy bubble-gum pop shit that sells lots of records, and it's not much different from the insipid shit that Christians record. The difference that I see is that there is a foundation of good music behind secular music. There are those who write in spite of big business, and their music is sublime. (No, not the band Sublime.)
I've yet to hear any sublime Christian music from the last 50 years or so.
Technically, Bach, Haydn, and others were writing Christian music, and there is no doubt that it is amazing music. I could go into detail about the differences, but I hope they are obvious enough that I don't have to.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I can't stand hymns, either. But I think the so-called "praise" songs are even worse. We sang them every day in both bible and social studies class. Then I had choir last period.
One good thing is I learned how to create harmony parts for melodies.
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I just realized I need to make a caveat about hymns. I mentioned thinking they at least had some musical substance behind them earlier...
The hymns I'm talking about are the really old ones, written by actual musicians. "Be Still, My Soul" is from a Sibelius symphony. That's a good example of the kind of hymn I appreciate.
I could do without "Beulah Land."
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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Bach? Who the hell is that?
I tend to agree with evrything you said. I remember early in my Christian days hearing Amy Grant and being struck with the commercialized sound. The "business" of Christianity went a long way to the completion of my disillusionment.
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Never had to do the latter type of song but it sounds like i'd rather kill myself then do it. I am lucky though, i only had to sing hymns like max ten times (i mean ten different occasions not 10 different times, each occasion included quite a few hymns). )
Apparently the members of MxPx are all Christians, but they don't make it a point to write music with Christian themes (though in some of their songs you can tell).
This isn't to say that I consider MxPx to be an example of outstanding musical talent, but I find their music more pleasing than any openly Christian bands I've heard.
Whatever happened to Carman? haha
A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.
Carmen. Now there was a rock star.
There was this dude, Steve Taylor, I think was his name. I actually liked Steve Taylor back in the day.
Believe it or not, I half respect what he had to say. He had a song called "I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good." It was not kind to abortion protesters and activists.
His music was at least thoughtful, and he had a dry sense of humor. He would have made a good secular artist, I think.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
You shouldn't let it go, as I never intend to either. My dislike for logic is probably the only thing which remains constant in me. However, I realize that I would be unable to function were I to abandon it completely. Logic and rational thought are like chemotherapies to which I must occasionally submit myself in order to keep myself alive. But it is the cancer itself for which I live in the first place. Frightening, isn't it?
The end result seems equivalent (either way can justify the abandonment of the search for truth), but I find that the differing shades of arrogance and self-delusion make the two stances markedly different.
You have to stop this. Really. I'm going to have to start a new thread just to provoke you into illogic.
Actually, yes. It is very frightening. This is the only completely serious thing I've said to you in this whole thread.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I'm sure this was said already in different ways but, the reason why modern Christian music sucks is becuase Christianity itself is more concerned with having a good image than with actually having anything of value to say. For example, as well al know Rock music was extremely controversial when it was first introduced in both seculuar and religious circles (of course, at the time rock music was controversial, what was the difference?). However, Rock music soon garnered the respect of various musicians and society in general then, low and behold, various Christians started doing Rock-like music to draw in more people. The film that illustrates this point perfectly well is Sister Act since a major theme was how much music, not neccessarily the message the music conveys, draws in the people.
" Why does God always got such wacky shit to say? . . . When was the last time you heard somebody say 'look God told me to get a muffin and a cup tea and cool out man'?" - Dov Davidoff