My Gullible Cousin is Getting into this "Law of Attraction" Bullshit

Iruka Naminori
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My Gullible Cousin is Getting into this "Law of Attraction" Bullshit

She wants me to make copies of The Secret for her so she can spread it around.  Sigh. So sorry, but I'm not about to disseminate disinformation.

Like me, she was indoctrinated into fundamentalist Christianity.  Like me, she has developed chronic illnesses. She despises Christianity, but she's so desperate for a cure and for spiritual security, she will buy into anything.  Usually it only lasts for awhile before she's on to the next thing.  I used to think it was all just harmless gibberish, but she wastes a lot of time, money and effort on crappola.  The placebo effect works very well on her, so she usually thinks that whatever the newest craze is happens to be the answer.  I've noticed she does the same thing with relationships.  I think she's in love with being in love, whereas I'm sexually repressed.  I often joke that if you could combine the two of us, you'd have the perfect sexual being. Smiling

Does the RRS do interventions for New Age woo-wooism? Smiling

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Never heard of "The Secret."

Never heard of "The Secret." Please explain.


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MattShizzle wrote: Never

MattShizzle wrote:
Never heard of "The Secret." Please explain.

LOL. Matt all you need to know is that it is the biggest pile of BS Ive seen....well maybe not the biggest....

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Yeah.  I did watch the

Yeah.  I did watch the first part of the movie.  I had just made myself lunch and figured I'd sit down and watch this thing which so enamored my cousin.  I thought it was going to be a real movie and at first, it looked like a real movie.

Then it got into the woo-woo stuff.

"Law of Attraction"??? WTF???

I put down my lunch and completely forgot to eat it while I watched the biggest pile of shit--okay, maybe not the biggest (quoting the Angelic one)--flash across the screen.  I may have even said, "This is the biggest pile of shit I've ever seen"...or words to that effect.

My bullshit-o-meter was off the scale! Smiling

I immediately e-mailed my cousin:


Hi XXXX,


I believe [this movie] is a complete scam.  There are no gods, no ghosts, no woo-woo New Age attraction vibrations.  The natural world is all there is and science is the key to understanding it. You don’t need more of what, in my opinion, is no better than Christian fundamentalism.  The message has changed, but the shysters are still there, ready to waste your time and/or money.  

We can, of course, discuss this in detail, if you would like.  I do believe that “spirituality” can be achieved, but I only trust what can be proven and tested empirically.  Meditation, for example, is proven to change brain waves. I am open to new things, but this “law of attraction” doesn’t pass the “Bullshit-o-meter Test” at first glance.

I encourage you to pick up some books on logic and critical thinking. (Dawkins’ latest, The God Delusion is pretty good.  He mostly focuses on the concept of god, but also addresses other areas of fuzzy thinking.)  Come hang out with me at The Rational Response Squad.  Mostly we debate theists about the idea of god, but there’s a whole section of other crazy ideas that need to be challenged.

Check this out: http://www.skepdic.com/news/newsletter71.html

“The Law of Attraction is a New Age belief that one's mental disposition attracts similar external circumstances and events. In other words, your mental intentions and attitudes draw people and things of like intention and attitude to yourself. On one level this is trivially true. We generally hang out with people who think like us and share our values and we avoid people who disagree with us on important matters and don't share our values. But a moment's reflection should reveal that this ‘law’ lacks truthiness.

“Grieving vulnerable people don't attract vulnerable people; they attract vultures and vampires who take advantage of their grief. If you say that grief and greed are both negative so this example supports the law of attraction, then this law is impossible to test. It's too slippery to have any meaningful content if obvious contradictions to it are said to support it. When kindness begets not more kindness but resentment, a New Age defender of this ‘law’ can always claim that the kindness wasn't genuine. “

Take Care,

XXXXX

P.S. It’s all about rationality.


 She didn't e-mail me back...shades of my lost friendship?  I don't know.  I'm not very popular when I burst people's fantasies, I guess. Sad

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Well, 99.999999 % of

Well, 99.999999 % of everything "New age" is utter bullshit.


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Iruka Naminori wrote: She

Iruka Naminori wrote:
She wants me to make copies of The Secret for her so she can spread it around.

First thing, I assume the movie is protected under copyright law. Without the express consent of the copyright holder, you should not copy the movie.

I frequently hear fussing and fuming of folks that think they have a right to download a torrent or copy of DVD for free. If everything is free and no money (or little money) is to be made, filmmakers won't make movies any more. Everything would then be amateur and on YouTube. Ack!

Iruka Naminori wrote:
Does the RRS do interventions for New Age woo-wooism? Smiling

Woo-wooism? I love that! It's a perfect description of so many things.

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Susan wrote: Iruka

Susan wrote:

Iruka Naminori wrote:
She wants me to make copies of The Secret for her so she can spread it around.

First thing, I assume the movie is protected under copyright law. Without the express consent of the copyright holder, you should not copy the movie.

I frequently hear fussing and fuming of folks that think they have a right to download a torrent or copy of DVD for free. If everything is free and no money (or little money) is to be made, filmmakers won't make movies any more. Everything would then be amateur and on YouTube. Ack!

Iruka Naminori wrote:
Does the RRS do interventions for New Age woo-wooism? Smiling

Woo-wooism? I love that! It's a perfect description of so many things.

 

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


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It doesn't help that Oprah

It doesn't help that Oprah is promoting this thing like it is a hot potato (which it is now, many thanks to her). The stuff found within the "Secret" is indeed no secret at all, I own books that say basically the same thing written in the 60s and before, and the ideas have existed long before that. This is all an attempt to create a cash cow in my opinion.

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LOL The law of attraction:

LOL

The law of attraction: Never think negative thoughts, because they determine your destiny.

New Age spirituality is pretty funny, but intervention might be a little over the top. Hippies into female mysticism and yuppies hiring feng shui consultants don't seem to me to be much more than harmless dabbling. Most of those people grow up eventually. Intervention is probably reserved for people who believe that if they fly a plane into a building, they get 72 eternal virgins, or people who believe that spinal bifida is God's wrath and that AIDS is divine retribution and homosexuality should be made a capital crime.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Iruka Naminori wrote: the

Iruka Naminori wrote:
the Angelic one

Have you been watching "Days"

Quote:
truthiness

You do realize that this word was coined, and copy-written by Steven Colbert, don't you? One may not use it unless due credit is payed.Laughing

BAHAHAHAHA

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Quote: The law of

Quote:
The law of attraction: Never think negative thoughts, because they determine your destiny.


Sounds like a person is suppose to go, "LA LA LA, no bad thoughts, NO BAD THOUGHTS, la la la, LA LA LA!" Now I can see how that might work on some level, but I'd think anyone who pushes the negative ideas out of their head would think the world is better all of a sudden.

My ideas on the dangers here are guessing, but might be something to research if a strong case needs to be made. If the person is basically brainwashing themselves into blocking out ideas that sounds like they are doing something a little unhealthy. One all these bad ideas could build up and lead to some issues. Two those bad thoughts mean you're human that is ok.

Now I don't know why someone would think a lie they tell themselves is going to help them, but I can see how it might make them feel better until the lie comes back to bite them in the ass.

Also if this has anything at all to do with dating. A person not being interested in me is not going to make me any less interested and a person being interested in me is not going to make me any more interested in them.


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Mordagar wrote: It doesn't

Mordagar wrote:
It doesn't help that Oprah is promoting this thing like it is a hot potato (which it is now, many thanks to her). The stuff found within the "Secret" is indeed no secret at all, I own books that say basically the same thing written in the 60s and before, and the ideas have existed long before that. This is all an attempt to create a cash cow in my opinion.

Oh no...Oprah is promoting it?

Now I remember why I don't have television...ack! 

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deludedgod wrote: LOL The

deludedgod wrote:

LOL

The law of attraction: Never think negative thoughts, because they determine your destiny.

New Age spirituality is pretty funny, but intervention might be a little over the top. Hippies into female mysticism and yuppies hiring feng shui consultants don't seem to me to be much more than harmless dabbling. Most of those people grow up eventually. Intervention is probably reserved for people who believe that if they fly a plane into a building, they get 72 eternal virgins, or people who believe that spinal bifida is God's wrath and that AIDS is divine retribution and homosexuality should be made a capital crime.

Yeah, I suppose so.  My cousin won't grow out of it, though.  This sort of stuff is right up her alley (for maybe a few months) and then she'll get over it and be into crystals or something else that's weird.

Oh well. 

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Angelic_Atheist

Angelic_Atheist wrote:
Iruka Naminori wrote:
the Angelic one

Have you been watching "Days"

Nope.  I don't have TV.  I went through a soap phase when I was in high school and the weird thing is, as far as I can tell, they are still recycling the same plot.  I can turn in once many many years later and feel like I haven't missed much. Eye-wink 

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Another big load of

Another big load of crapola... "What The Bleep Do We Know"!

 

Tries to use real scientific theories to prove metaphysical new age shit. 


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People actually believe

People actually believe this crap?:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17314883/site/newsweek/


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Thank you. The excerpt from

Thank you. The excerpt from her book was incredibly stupid.

"When doctors tell you that you have a slow metabolism, thyroid deficienty etc this is really a disguise for you thinking bad thoughts. A person cannot think fat thoughts and get thin, it fundamentally defies the law of attraction".'

Wow. That was really convincing:

The law of attraction is true

If you think thin thoughts you will get thin

You cannot think fat thoughts

We know this because the law of attraction is true

 

Well, I hope that clears it up! Everyone! All of this is true! You just have to pretend/assume/assert/ignore contradicting evidence and believe that the law of attraction is true, then it all falls into place!

LOL 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Iruka Naminori
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Roisin Dubh wrote: People

Roisin Dubh wrote:

People actually believe this crap?:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17314883/site/newsweek/

Apparently so.  Un-fucking-believable, isn't it? Surprised

I just sent my cousin a link to the Newsweek story.  Sigh.  I wonder if she'll have the same reaction my friend did and cut me off?

"Don't give me facts!  I want fantasy!  Fantasy, I tell you!" 

 

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That's pretty much an

That's pretty much an irrational precept. Could do a lot of harm, too (people "thinking happy thoughts" instead of getting medical treatment.)

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MattShizzle wrote: That's

MattShizzle wrote:
That's pretty much an irrational precept. Could do a lot of harm, too (people "thinking happy thoughts" instead of getting medical treatment.)

There's no problem. It's just natural selection at work. Eye-wink

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Just saw about this on CNN

Just saw about this on CNN last night. Talk about fucking irrational! It's definitely pseudoscientific bullshit! Be a good subject for a show here or on Penn & Teller Bullshit.

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I just saw the thing on CNN,

I just saw the thing on CNN, I really don't think it should get the pseudoscience title. It hurts the image of other pseudosciences like Creationalism/ID or Scientology.


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Voiderest wrote: I just saw

Voiderest wrote:
I just saw the thing on CNN, I really don't think it should get the pseudoscience title. It hurts the image of other pseudosciences like Creationalism/ID or Scientology.

Bwahahahahaha! Smiling

Too funny.

I don't have TV, but it would have been interesting to see what CNN said about The Secret.  The Newsweek Article was actually pretty good.  Yes, it editorialized, but on a subject like this the facts are the side of the "this is bullshit" opinion. 

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I've read most of Wayne

I've read most of Wayne Dyer's books to see that "The Secret" is just his ideas and those of other earlier new age philosophers repackaged.

Dyer's "secret" is "What you think about expands." I supposed, according to Byrne, that would includes one's waistline.Laughing

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rab wrote: I supposed,

rab wrote:

I supposed, according to Byrne, that would includes one's waistline.Laughing

Or butt.  Sealed


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ive used the law of

ive used the law of attraction many times and most of the time it works but what bout you doubters out there

Ive been reading posts on youtube, and articles saying that the law of attraction is bullshit, i feel srry for these guys right when the see they the movie the secret, just completely blast them without even giving the secret a shot because they are stuck in their beliefs, even if they did try it chances are it won't work(well law of attraction is always working wether they like it or not) work positively that is, because they don't believe it too much.
I read posts and seen videos arguing saying when there is disease child, or you got in a car crash, earthquakes, 9/11, and events Hitler saying that its because of how you used the law of attraction is simply idiocy.  People hate hearing this but it's true BUT it's not all the people's fault. MY only critisim on The Secret is that it says you attract whatever you think about, and it's easy to argue that these guys didn't attract bad situation, because of the saying, "you attract whatever you think about and visualize" but that's one way of USING the law of attraction. Law of attraction like the law of gravity is happening wether we USE it OR NOT. The people who had very bad things to happens to them resonated with the event, not purposely attracted. In other words they were just aligned with that event, and it's not thier fault at all. They were just attracted by default to bad and good events. Attracting by default means you go through the day thinking you have no control of what's happening which is not a bad thing at all.

In other words when bad things happen and trying to blame because you weren't positive enough, or faith is wrong, because blaming such things makes it even worse. Instead change your perspective and say this happened because it was meant to be and there is a good to come out of it which will help me later because it will when you have faith and believe. Because if you look at the event and say i was meant to be this way, you will be that way.

Law of attraction or i prefer to say resonance mainly happens because of your BELIEF SYSTEM. That's why people who choose to believe that the secret is bullshit,  will continue to be bullshit but the law of attraction is still working. If you unconsiously have a belief system that  believes, you never know what will happen today, believing something bad will happen or something good will happen, and you just go on the day just doing the same old routine of going on an dead job, believing(unconsiously that is, not purposely, remember our belief system is something we don't concsiouly think about too much) then there will always be that chance of something bad happening or something good happening, and you will always be on that dead end job if you think that. If you believe that the belief system has nothing to do with the law of attraction and that things just happen, the universe will correspond with that belief for you. If you TRULY believe that the world has so many great things to offer to you, then you will attract MORE of the good things and events, maybe you will attract few bad events but not that bad, you will just be blessed with more positive events, you get what I am saying? IT's all your belief system

Law of attraction, (I prefer to call it Law of Resonance is more sense than law of attraction, because it's more what you are resonating and vibrating with) is always working wether you use it or not just like law of gravity. We use the law of gravity to do fun things like to bungee jump, to dive, parachute, like that we can also use to Law of Attraction to do fun and fullfilling things as well.

Also if you are visualizing how great it would be to have more money and are desperate for money and you are willing to do anything to win money, the desperate negative feeling will just hurt you and will end up joining internet scams most likely lol getting more screwed over. Like i said follow your intuition and let the law of attraction guide you positively.

Remember positive always overcome negative and you can use the law of attraction to work with you. Look at hitler(srry if this seems inappropriate) hitler may have visualized and affirmed himself for a world with only white people(some concepts from the secret), but he was trying to control the world for wrong negative reasons. That's two things things working against him, having hate, and wanting to control everything around him. That's why he failed, and that's why there on going war today, hate. And it wasn't the jews faults of being in concentration camps, they didn't want to be there, they just resonated with that event that is all. It's like the saying being in the "wrong place in the wrong time" and they didn't do anything wrong, they were good people and they certianly didn't deserve it.

Anything is possible, you just have to have the DESIRE and good reasons to do it that matches with your inner soul, to make it possible, and believe it's possible. Because with less desire or if you really don't want to do because it's too hard or too unrealistic it won't manifest. Lets look at this, when the wright brothers thought of a flying machine it was pretty unrealisitc, but fortunately thier desire, thier faith, thier energy and vision made it possible. If you have an idea but don't have the energy or desire or faith to make it manifest it won't happen. Lets talk things that "seems" impossible, if you think it would be cool to be president, but don't have the inner desire, but you know you can just because you think the law of attraction will help(those who believe in it), it's less likely to happen because you don't have the desire to do that, and the reason has to be resconate with you inner  your heart and joy, not just because it would be awesome to do that, and to show of my friends.
So when people say how come if the secret is true how come I can't rule the world and don't get everything I want, its because it doesn't resconate with you. YES of course it would be awesome to be president, to go to mars, find away to fly like superman(lol little out there i know), but that is not my desire within me to do with my life, i have other goals i prefer to do. Plus it's not your job to control the world it's your job to do what is desire that will perhaps help the world and the universe will correspond to that.

also focusing what you don't want will bring more of it, and more bad events.

You can control your life have what you really desire, but let the law of attraction help you, of course take action if needed, don't be a lazy bum lol.

srry about my spelling.


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Wow!  Matt, could you post

Wow!  Matt, could you post your cat picture?  I don't think anyone needs to respond to this with any sort of sincerity.

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have you even used to the secret, or think your too smart to use

the thing is have you guys even opened up to the concepts of the secrets, or just small minded to there is no god. And trust me there is more to this new age stuff than just positive thinking and visualizing, and it's not wishful thinking, there is more to these concepts than just that. It's not just thinking and sitting on your ass all day wishing this would happen and it happens, it's more than that, and you guys pretty are small minded to get this. And just because you won a debate doesn't mean it's true it this only matter of opinion. Because there is evidence of the law of attraction as for example how ive used it.

The way I look at it stubborn athiest people are no different than christians, they are putting thier foot down because of their idea of seeing is believing and ALWAYS  needing concrete evidence and needing rational thinkin THATS the only way the world works and that's thier perception. Rational thinking and seeing is believing is part of the way to look at the world, PART not the whole. Christians on the other hand, even when there isn't evidence of god or the stories in the bible to be true and no matter how much people say its no way logical and true saying believing in such is utter bullshit, the christians still believe thier faith even bad things happen and they are putting thier foot down on thier beliefs, and not open to other ideas and thoughts just like athiests are on thier christian faith bullshit or not.

 

The so called law of attraction has to do heavily on your belief system. It works, (talk to people who has worked and there's your evidence there, i'm one of them) trust and has unlimited possiblities. People say if its true, how come i didn't win the lottery, well honestly i would love to win the lottery and i want to but sadly some things  like my belief system like most people believe that it seems impossible to win the lottery. But once you get that doubt of you head, which is VERY hard to do you will have more chance, which i know is irrational but like you know any better since you never used the law of attraction if you did your doing it wrong because it works for me. i used it for many things, more money, attracting particular hot girls i wanted, wanting more things, meeting and hanging with my favourite bands it works, just give it a shot a remove your limiting beleifs.

 

Rational thinkin is important, its very important but don't limit yourself just to that. I know i'm going to get blasted for this but i just wanted express my open minded opion.

 

And as with is there a god? i don't know lol, but i know there is a higher power we can appreciate if we keep ourselves open minded.


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I gotta speak up for law of

I gotta speak up for law of attraction....sort of. The idea that if you project your thoughts onto the universe it will magically grant your wishes is total bull.

That being said, there is an element of truth to it. That is, if you focus your thoughts on money every day all the time, you're more likely to notice financial opportunities as they arise. Or if you only think happy thoughts and your attitude is happy you will probably attract people who have something in common with, other happy people. The reason law of attraction seems so real to people is that it may get results. Not because the universe loves you and cares so much what you think, but because you tend to direct your actions after your thoughts.

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I’m sorry, but this is

I’m sorry, but this is just so painful to observe that I feel it necessary to respond.

The first thing I should say is that you (“coolestguyintheworld” ) are an idiot.

This is not an unsubstantiated comment. It’s an observation based on your style of writing, which is lazy, sloppy and barely comprehensible. It sends a clear message to everyone else in the room: Do not take me seriously. I do not put a lot of time into articulation. If you don’t take your own writing seriously, people won’t take you seriously (as seriously as they could take such inane garbage as you posted, at least). Please write comprehensibly in the future.

Quote:

the thing is have you guys even opened up to the concepts of the secrets, or just small minded to there is no god.

What precisely do you mean by open up? How, precisely, could one empirically investigate what is claimed to be a metaphysical principle? (Thus, by extension, how could one “open up” to such a principle?) The question is meaningless.

Quote:

And trust me there is more to this new age stuff than just positive thinking and visualizing, and it's not wishful thinking

The (lack of) content and thoughtfulness of your posts have not given me the slightest inclination to believe this.

Quote:

Because there is evidence of the law of attraction as for example how ive used it.

This is spotlight fallacy combined with a post hoc fallacy. Presumably, one could make the case that positive thinking is important. However, to move from that to turning it into a metaphysical principle is beyond hallucinatory. Because the only evidence that you could possibly provide constitutes examples of the importance of positive thinking, there is no evidence you could possibly offer to validate a law. Nor is there any evidence that you could offer that would defeat the competing and more parsimonious explanation. The less parsimonious explanation is yours: The “power of positive thinking” is actually due to some sort of immutable metaphysical principle. The more parsimonious explanation is that it lies in human psychology. There is no example you could provide which would suggest that positive thinking is an immutable property of reality as opposed to a feature of human psychology. The highly subjective nature of the “evidence” you could offer strongly suggests that the explanation you offer is vastly less parsimonious than the alternatives.

 

Additionally, your (less parsimonious) explanation does not fulfill the basic prerequisite of coherency. It’s too vague to be meaningful or empirically investigated. The phrase “Law of attraction” is an abuse of terminology. The word law refers to a precisely formulated mathematical statement that describes the relationship between several input variables and the output variables. Take a few examples. Faraday’s Law describes how induced electro-motive force relates to solenoid turns, magnetic flux density and velocity. Lenz’s Law describes the relationship between the polarities of a magnet induced by current in a solenoid induced by a another permanent magnet. Coulomb’s Law describes the relationship between force exerted and charge and radial distance in electrostatic fields, Gauss’ Law describes how charge relates to closed flux density of electrostatic fields. Etc. etc. These examples should be sufficient for you to get the idea. The “law” of attraction does not meet the criteria that we could call it a law. The statement of a law must precisely relate input to output variables. Furthermore, a law is usually accompanied by a body of theory which articulates precisely how and why it occurs. Newton’s Law is accompanied by the theory of Gravitational fields, which describes flux lines that permeate all regions of space. The mechanism behind Gauss’s Law of magnetism is described by the theory of magnetic dipoles. Lenz’s Law is easily articulated using the vector cross-product of flux density and direction of displacement. Your “law” is not a law as it does not meet the required criteria, and it is not accompanied by precise and empirically testable statements which explain its basis (“it works” is not a statement which explains its basis). As your law neither contains a proposed mechanism for how and why it works, nor a coherent formulation, it is a useless statement.

Quote:

ALWAYS  needing concrete evidence and needing rational thinkin

Take a moment to reflect on the absurdity of this statement. You are essentially declaring that requiring evidence and employing rational though amounts to close-mindedness. Surely, you must realize that you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Quote:

The so called law of attraction has to do heavily on your belief system.

Do you have any statistical evidence for this?

Quote:

. It works,

Unfortunately, “it works” is not a rational basis for spinning something into an immutable metaphysical principle. Like I said, any attempt to move from “it works” to “it is a true metaphysical principle” is a non sequitur. It requires wishful thinking of the highest order to declare that positive thinking is an immutable feature of a universe which, by all accounts, is vast, blind, non-conscious, and which we inhabit as an insignificant and irrelevant and infinitesimal piece. There is no reason to suppose that the sort of evidence you put forth is a sound and rational justification for the belief that there is a metaphysical component to positive thinking.

Quote:

But once you get that doubt of you head, which is VERY hard to do you will have more chance, which i know is irrational but like you know any better since you never used the law of attraction if you did your doing it wrong because it works for me. i used it for many things, more money, attracting particular hot girls i wanted, wanting more things, meeting and hanging with my favourite bands it works, just give it a shot a remove your limiting beleifs.

Yet again, you are making a fallacy of non sequitur, discounting parsimonious explanations and moving toward unjustified metaphysical principles on extremely shaky ground. You are moving from “positive thinking allows me to do x,y and z that I could not have in the past” to “there is a metaphysical explanation for the observed effect”. Since I presume you have a short attention span, let me just repeat: This is a non sequitur.

Quote:

open minded opion.

Your “opinion” is anything but open-minded. You have moved from extremely shaky evidence to extremely bold, but ultimately incoherent statements about the nature of reality. This is demonstrative of closed-minded silliness.

Now, I urge you to learn the following:

-Spelling

-Grammar

-Punctuation

-Syntax

In this little corner of the internet, these things are taken seriously. It is little wonder you have gotten no responses yet (except this one). Nobody can be asked to decipher the internet equivalent of random scrawl.

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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deludedgod wrote: I’m

deludedgod wrote:

I’m sorry, but this is just so painful to observe that I feel it necessary to respond.

The first thing I should say is that you (“coolestguyintheworld” ) are an idiot.

This is not an unsubstantiated comment. It’s an observation based on your style of writing, which is lazy, sloppy and barely comprehensible. It sends a clear message to everyone else in the room: Do not take me seriously. I do not put a lot of time into articulation. If you don’t take your own writing seriously, people won’t take you seriously (as seriously as they could take such inane garbage as you posted, at least). Please write comprehensibly in the future.

Quote:

the thing is have you guys even opened up to the concepts of the secrets, or just small minded to there is no god.

What precisely do you mean by open up? How, precisely, could one empirically investigate what is claimed to be a metaphysical principle? (Thus, by extension, how could one “open up” to such a principle?) The question is meaningless.

Quote:

And trust me there is more to this new age stuff than just positive thinking and visualizing, and it's not wishful thinking

The (lack of) content and thoughtfulness of your posts have not given me the slightest inclination to believe this.

Quote:

Because there is evidence of the law of attraction as for example how ive used it.

This is spotlight fallacy combined with a post hoc fallacy. Presumably, one could make the case that positive thinking is important. However, to move from that to turning it into a metaphysical principle is beyond hallucinatory. Because the only evidence that you could possibly provide constitutes examples of the importance of positive thinking, there is no evidence you could possibly offer to validate a law. Nor is there any evidence that you could offer that would defeat the competing and more parsimonious explanation. The less parsimonious explanation is yours: The “power of positive thinking” is actually due to some sort of immutable metaphysical principle. The more parsimonious explanation is that it lies in human psychology. There is no example you could provide which would suggest that positive thinking is an immutable property of reality as opposed to a feature of human psychology. The highly subjective nature of the “evidence” you could offer strongly suggests that the explanation you offer is vastly less parsimonious than the alternatives.

 

Additionally, your (less parsimonious) explanation does not fulfill the basic prerequisite of coherency. It’s too vague to be meaningful or empirically investigated. The phrase “Law of attraction” is an abuse of terminology. The word law refers to a precisely formulated mathematical statement that describes the relationship between several input variables and the output variables. Take a few examples. Faraday’s Law describes how induced electro-motive force relates to solenoid turns, magnetic flux density and velocity. Lenz’s Law describes the relationship between the polarities of a magnet induced by current in a solenoid induced by a another permanent magnet. Coulomb’s Law describes the relationship between force exerted and charge and radial distance in electrostatic fields, Gauss’ Law describes how charge relates to closed flux density of electrostatic fields. Etc. etc. These examples should be sufficient for you to get the idea. The “law” of attraction does not meet the criteria that we could call it a law. The statement of a law must precisely relate input to output variables. Furthermore, a law is usually accompanied by a body of theory which articulates precisely how and why it occurs. Newton’s Law is accompanied by the theory of Gravitational fields, which describes flux lines that permeate all regions of space. The mechanism behind Gauss’s Law of magnetism is described by the theory of magnetic dipoles. Lenz’s Law is easily articulated using the vector cross-product of flux density and direction of displacement. Your “law” is not a law as it does not meet the required criteria, and it is not accompanied by precise and empirically testable statements which explain its basis (“it works” is not a statement which explains its basis). As your law neither contains a proposed mechanism for how and why it works, nor a coherent formulation, it is a useless statement.

Quote:

ALWAYS  needing concrete evidence and needing rational thinkin

Take a moment to reflect on the absurdity of this statement. You are essentially declaring that requiring evidence and employing rational though amounts to close-mindedness. Surely, you must realize that you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Quote:

The so called law of attraction has to do heavily on your belief system.

Do you have any statistical evidence for this?

Quote:

. It works,

Unfortunately, “it works” is not a rational basis for spinning something into an immutable metaphysical principle. Like I said, any attempt to move from “it works” to “it is a true metaphysical principle” is a non sequitur. It requires wishful thinking of the highest order to declare that positive thinking is an immutable feature of a universe which, by all accounts, is vast, blind, non-conscious, and which we inhabit as an insignificant and irrelevant and infinitesimal piece. There is no reason to suppose that the sort of evidence you put forth is a sound and rational justification for the belief that there is a metaphysical component to positive thinking.

Quote:

But once you get that doubt of you head, which is VERY hard to do you will have more chance, which i know is irrational but like you know any better since you never used the law of attraction if you did your doing it wrong because it works for me. i used it for many things, more money, attracting particular hot girls i wanted, wanting more things, meeting and hanging with my favourite bands it works, just give it a shot a remove your limiting beleifs.

Yet again, you are making a fallacy of non sequitur, discounting parsimonious explanations and moving toward unjustified metaphysical principles on extremely shaky ground. You are moving from “positive thinking allows me to do x,y and z that I could not have in the past” to “there is a metaphysical explanation for the observed effect”. Since I presume you have a short attention span, let me just repeat: This is a non sequitur.

Quote:

open minded opion.

Your “opinion” is anything but open-minded. You have moved from extremely shaky evidence to extremely bold, but ultimately incoherent statements about the nature of reality. This is demonstrative of closed-minded silliness.

Now, I urge you to learn the following:

-Spelling

-Grammar

-Punctuation

-Syntax

In this little corner of the internet, these things are taken seriously. It is little wonder you have gotten no responses yet (except this one). Nobody can be asked to decipher the internet equivalent of random scrawl.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. D. God's bazooka discharge often stings the eyes and mucous membranes and we recommend that you step back from the area of the blast.  We assure you that the housefly destroyed lived a full and complete life, as his post indicates that he had been fed on only the richest and most rarified horseshit.

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell


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the secret works

Ok i am not a good debater or that great of a rational thinkiner, and i just wrote that to express my opinion, like i said i'm not trying to write a science article. And you made some good points, but this law of attraction wether it is real or not, or just simply and fancy name to make it seem more logical, the thing is that either way the concepts of the secret works is what i am trying to get here. And you can find as many evidence as you can to say that this stuff is balony and you can have evidence but in the end the concepts of the secret works because it worked for me. If it didn't worked i would be open minded to why it doesn't work and why it's not real and if it works for great, it's pretty hard to say it doesn't work when i had great expieriences

And trust me your life revolves around your belief system. For example i was focusing what i was seeing, and people treated me like shit, girls would never talk to me, and i always my though of being unlucky. My friend showed me the secret and i still thought  the whole thing was stupid and was baloney and i would always prove him wrong saying there is no true scientific evidence to make this true, and he said maybe so but it works. I was like wtf you just contradicted yourself. And he just said if your going to go through whole life afraid of being wrong and stick what you are seeing and what people seeing your life is boring. I just laughed at him when he said that. The next thing i know i see him getting bigger paychecks, more women, more beautiful women, and he was always lucky with money, and had better cars, looking better and people were just handing stuff to him for free. And i asked him what did he do to do these what were these strategies you took to do, must have been a lot work. He just told me there is no technique or sacrifice i just used the secret

So i gave it a shot. I was using the concepts but i didn't believe it was real and non of the stuff worked. I worked hard and still nothing believing that the secret is crap. and i believed that some people are just cruel and you will always have to deal with them and i finally changed my beliefs of money, people and life. The next thing I know all the people i hated went away from my life and better people came into circle, beautiful women were surrounding me and it all just happened naturally. There were some coincidences that happened that seemed great.

 

Once I ran out of gas, and i told my self its ok somewhere i will find money of  20 dollars within these 2hrs for many for my gas. 2hrs later my friends mom gave me 20 dollars to me as a graduation gift

 

I told myself i was going to going on a date with this particular at this certain place and particular day, the next thing i know, she calls me suggesting to go out and we went and had our date in that place.

 

I was at a concert, and told myself i will meet them in person which seemed impossible since its usually hard to meet bands in person, next thing i know after the concert my friend hooked me up to meet with the band and we talked and had blast.

 

I told myself i was going to see this particular band by the end of november 2008 which i affirmed 6 months ago, now they are coming on november 28th and i got free tickets as a bonus

These are some of the FEW coincidents that happened to me

You just have use the concepts of the secret .and rationalizing and proving the stuff doesn't work will of course won't work. Here's the thing if you focus on something to what you want in what you truly believe in it will happen. So if you focus, and truly believe that this stuff is crap, then it is crap. If you focus on proving this stuff and truly believe within you that the secret is bullshit and know you have the ability to prove this stuff wrong, you will prove it wrong. If you believe within you that this stuff works then it will work. Its that simple.

Its not science here ok its simple.


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i'll admit there is not

i'll admit there is not scientific that there is a law of attraction but these concepts can only get you so far, but as irrational as it sounds it works. I'm going to end here and you can live your life how ever you want, we all have choices. Success isn't determined by the world but by you.

And yes you may have proven me that there is no power or no law, but i feel bad for not opening up to the concepts. I'm not as much scientist, or smart as you but there are many succuessful people who have opened up to these concepts and went so far in life being less smart as they are, and i know these people personally.

 

Thank you and good day

 

 


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Oh yea,When I say open up

Oh yea,When I say open up its quite simple. You ask how right? It's simple, TRYING THE SECRET OUT. that's what i mean. If you don't want to buy it OK, watch it for free on the whole thing on youtube.

 

"The (lack of) content and thoughtfulness of your posts have not given me the slightest inclination to believe this."

there you go man, the less you believe, then it won't be opened because you are resisting. You have choice, and you choose not to believe and it will not work. If you don't want to do something that can help you positively just because of being skeptic and cynical your loss, you have the choice, you can't depend on the world.

 

All you are focused and believing is that it's bullshit and it won't work, but if you are willing to try it out and believe it will work it will. And no  it's not religion

 

This law of attraction can't be explained but it works that's all i can say

 

I just had to say that lol NOW i am free to leave haha, too much skeptismim and cynics here, be more positive. If the law of attraction isn't real, at least it's more common sense to be more positve and be more lovable damn....live free, don't limit to what you see haha


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Poe's law applies to new age woo

According to Poe's Law, one can not tell the difference between a fundamental Christian and a parody of a fundamental Christian.

When I read coolestguyintheworld's post, I thought it was a parody of a new age woo baby, and I laughed my ass off.

I was shocked when deludedgod treated coolestguyintheworld's post as though it was serious.

Poe's law seems to extend to new age woo.

I have to admit that I can not tell whether or not coolestguyintheworld's post was a parody or not.

 

 

when you say "faith" I think "evil lies"
when you say "god" I think "santa clause"


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Quote: You just have use the

Quote:

You just have use the concepts of the secret .and rationalizing and proving the stuff doesn't work will of course won't work. Here's the thing if you focus on something to what you want in what you truly believe in it will happen. So if you focus, and truly believe that this stuff is crap, then it is crap. If you focus on proving this stuff and truly believe within you that the secret is bullshit and know you have the ability to prove this stuff wrong, you will prove it wrong. If you believe within you that this stuff works then it will work. Its that simple.

Quote:

if you did your doing it wrong because it works for me

Ad hoc fallacy on both counts. When I saw the second part, my inclination was that this is a parody. No human being could possibly be so stupid as to not see the logical fallacy in that statement. Could they?

I suppose they could.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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deludedgod wrote:Ad hoc

deludedgod wrote:
Ad hoc fallacy on both counts. When I saw the second part, my inclination was that this is a parody. No human being could possibly be so stupid as to not see the logical fallacy in that statement. Could they?

I suppose they could.

It doesn't require stupidity. All it needs is an emotional response - the feeling of fulfillment or of being cared for. "God" and this "Law of Attraction" stuff all speaks to our instincts to be cared for as children.

Of course, the more you know, and the more you have the habits of skeptical inquiry, the harder it is to maintain the illusion. This is why the more educated a person is, the less likely it is they will be a believer in such things. (Conversely, it is also why highly educated folks can remain believers in such things. Yay compartmentalization.)

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


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srry to waste your time

hey i'm not great of a rational thinker as you guys are i'll admit that. It was silly of me to come to a website full of rational thinkin that i can prove these guys that the secret works, but there's no way of convincing you guys at all.

But i prefer to live in a fullfilling way in a positive happy way, not limiting ways. That's the most important thing to me, living in a positive happy life, and living with great people, and achieving the best you can be and the best you can have, and not being scared of pushing youself to greater things. And if i fall, i will only pick myself up and learn from mistakes because you always have to try, nothing is worse that talking yourself of what could be great. Its the lessons you learn from mistakes and that's how you grow that's one of the most important things from life, personal growth, it's not about being scared and talking yourself out things and living in limitations and living the "ordinary life" Its taking risks and going the extra mile.

What the secret(real or not(i truly believe in my soul it is true i don't care if look like an idiot to you guys lol it has worked for me and i can't do that since its ancecdotal evidence) has done for me was a great mindset(that is something really awesome and grateful for) for me, and i have gained so many things such as money(which is only part of happiness of course), better people, better relationships, having greater things handed to me, and living adventure, and i am grateful for the people around who apprectiate who i am and what i have gained from life. And so amazed what i have done with my life so far that is. My life right has so much better quality than last year you can't even imagine.

Think about it for one sec, is it better to be depressed or stand up tall and take control of your live of solutions and possiblities. I think it sucks to live being a victim and depression or any limitation even if you aren't depressed lving in limiation sucks, because that's where you live, the mind, if your mind is full of negative thoughts it ain't healthy, i wanna have healthy mind and live longer, and obstacles come can be learned and over come if you stay strong and hopeful enough. Obstacles make you stronger

 

And no i don't live limitation from things such as god and live in fear that if i do this he will strike me, i live in possiblity, i take risks, i grow, and being happy and fullfilled with others is the most important thing to me what about you?

 

HAVE A NICE A LIFE AND LIVE YOUR LIFE TO THE FULLEST


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 This is the internet, so

 This is the internet, so you could be anybody. But obviously not a very smart anybody. I have trouble believing you could power your mind towards any sort of goal or a plan to attain a goal based on the fact you obviously can't even type a simple sentence properly. So I'm guessing based on what evidence I have here you probably don't even have the money, women, property, friends, etc. you claim to have. Sorry, but I don't think anyone is buying this. But I agree on one thing: it certainly was silly of you to come to a site full of rational thinkers.

One question though: with all the people that listen to Oprah as if she were god, how come we haven't seen a positive change in our prosperity? All of these people should be doing much better after taking the "law of attraction" seriously. In fact, I seem to recall something from the news about the American economy doing worse lately....

Normally I try and show a great deal of tolerance, even towards theists, but after a long day and reading posts like yours it's very hard.

"We are the star things harvesting the star energy"
-Carl Sagan


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Iruka Naminori wrote:Does


Iruka Naminori wrote:
Does the RRS do interventions for New Age woo-wooism? Smiling
I'd really like that... Religional stuff is rather a distant problem for me. But I don't like when someone deludes and rips off NA people. New Age general "knowledge" is very simplified, watered-down, populistic and unprecise version of what I'd call a knowledge. This is why it's easy to delude a lot of people with it. It's a mass movement, while only few people can appreciate the most precise truth. Yeah, I think that RRS could mention NA for a bit, though they're not so dangerous as Christians, if yes, mainly to themselves.

Iruka Naminori wrote:
“Grieving vulnerable people don't attract vulnerable people; they attract vultures and vampires who take advantage of their grief. If you say that grief and greed are both negative so this example supports the law of attraction, then this law is impossible to test. It's too slippery to have any meaningful content if obvious contradictions to it are said to support it. When kindness begets not more kindness but resentment, a New Age defender of this ‘law’ can always claim that the kindness wasn't genuine. “
You misunderstood it a little. Grieving and vulnerable people attracts vultures and vampires, who causes them even more grief. This is how this "law of attraction" is meant. If the vulnerable people would actually hang out together, they would become less vulnerable, they would alleviate their grief a little, and they would feel better, so it would contradict this law... just a remark.

deludedgod wrote:

LOL

The law of attraction: Never think negative thoughts, because they determine your destiny.

Yes, it's a bullshit. "Oooh, don't think, don't think negative thought, uh...no!!! I thought it! I'm doomed! Oh, that was another!"
Negative or forcing statements are useless. "Think positive thoughts" would be unrealistic. "Find something good or nice about everything and everyone you can", this is what I would say.

Positive thoughts are useful, if they alleviate a stress. Frustration has a direct physiological results, (you know, the adrenaline, acid in stomach, etc...) and it kills a lot of people by civilization diseases. But it's a prevention, and a supportive factor, rather than a real cure for diseases already in progress.

rab wrote:

I've read most of Wayne Dyer's books to see that "The Secret" is just his ideas and those of other earlier new age philosophers repackaged.

Indeed. There are things which initially caused such stuff to appear in every age for last thousands of years around the globe, but without understanding them scientifically, it is doing something without knowing why and how, with all problems which comes with it.
The real causes are so complicated, that it will take this century to uncover them gradually. This is the real secret Smiling

thecoolestpersonintheworld: wow, you're very brave! *thumbsup* And yeah, Law of Resonance is more appropriate term for that.


 

 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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iamthecoolestguyintheworld

iamthecoolestguyintheworld wrote:

the thing is have you guys even opened up to the concepts of the secrets, or just small minded to there is no god. And trust me there is more to this new age stuff than just positive thinking and visualizing, and it's not wishful thinking, there is more to these concepts than just that. It's not just thinking and sitting on your ass all day wishing this would happen and it happens, it's more than that, and you guys pretty are small minded to get this. And just because you won a debate doesn't mean it's true it this only matter of opinion. Because there is evidence of the law of attraction as for example how ive used it.

The way I look at it stubborn athiest people are no different than christians, they are putting thier foot down because of their idea of seeing is believing and ALWAYS  needing concrete evidence and needing rational thinkin THATS the only way the world works and that's thier perception. Rational thinking and seeing is believing is part of the way to look at the world, PART not the whole. Christians on the other hand, even when there isn't evidence of god or the stories in the bible to be true and no matter how much people say its no way logical and true saying believing in such is utter bullshit, the christians still believe thier faith even bad things happen and they are putting thier foot down on thier beliefs, and not open to other ideas and thoughts just like athiests are on thier christian faith bullshit or not.

 

The so called law of attraction has to do heavily on your belief system. It works, (talk to people who has worked and there's your evidence there, i'm one of them) trust and has unlimited possiblities. People say if its true, how come i didn't win the lottery, well honestly i would love to win the lottery and i want to but sadly some things  like my belief system like most people believe that it seems impossible to win the lottery. But once you get that doubt of you head, which is VERY hard to do you will have more chance, which i know is irrational but like you know any better since you never used the law of attraction if you did your doing it wrong because it works for me. i used it for many things, more money, attracting particular hot girls i wanted, wanting more things, meeting and hanging with my favourite bands it works, just give it a shot a remove your limiting beleifs.

 

Rational thinkin is important, its very important but don't limit yourself just to that. I know i'm going to get blasted for this but i just wanted express my open minded opion.

 

And as with is there a god? i don't know lol, but i know there is a higher power we can appreciate if we keep ourselves open minded.

You know what the problem with "the secret" is? It takes a perfectly logical and reasonable portion of psychology, and then attributes to it legendary and mythical proportions of success, which happens to be absolute and total bullshit. Are you more likely to survive a disease if you believe you will than if you believe you won't? Yes. This is proven fact. Will your belief actually cure you? No. Belief will not cure aids. It will help you fight aids, and help you deal with the stress involved, but it won't cure it. Period. Believing you will win the lottery will not have you win the lottery. It will simply make it more likely that you will, since you will more often purchase tickets, which increases your chances of winning. It will not magically give you the winning numbers. That's the problem with "the secret". It takes reality and turns it into bullshit.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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About The

About The Secret
iamthecoolestguyintheworld, and The Secret (I guess) speaks of the Law of Resonance (attraction). It of course works, call it a speech of the body, or some other psychological effect, if you like. Everyone who watches own and other people's lives should see it. Me too. But if this is all, then it's incomplete. There are several other laws, like Law of Cause and Effect, Law of Sacrifice, and so on. These laws and several more factors are involved in our lives and all the universe, and makes it all rather complicated, something which I wouldn't trust that a general NA crowd can understand. This is why my grandfather never won much in a lottery, though he bought many tickets during the most of his life.
Btw, if a lawyers can have a non-mathemathic definitions of their laws, so why New Agers couldn't ? Smiling

About the wishful thinking
Next, there is a difference in wishful thinking and contemplation. Wishful thinking is dominated by the wish, thus not having the thing we're thinking about. Contemplation about something is like we already have it, visualizing the form we want in it's most perfect, complete state. This helps to manifest any kind of project in a physical world, and mainly to gather other people to work on it too. This is why some people are visionaries, they have a vision and they manage to manifest it in the world, and they change the world.

About being a "rational, close-minded", person and being "opened up"
Furthermore, atheists, or rational people as such are NOT like Christians at all. Christians, the general crowd of believers, are emotional. (just like a lot of New Agers) Emotions doesn't know logical values (false or true) or implications, they doesn't have to be logically valid, they control the people anyway.
Rational people uses something some people calls a lower, concrete mind. For this mind, thoughts are things, and these things can be worked with. Here belongs all scientists, mathemathicians, and so on, they've got their lower mind overgrown. It is not a bad thing, but it's restricting.
There is also a higher mind. This mind is used for processing abstract ideals, like brotherhood, equality, global justice, freedom and peace, and some other things, which are called  "spiritual". There are people, who has a very developed higher mind, but their lower, rational mind is underdeveloped. They're called primitive tribesmen, and they live a dirty life in nature, they hunt animals, wear almost nothing and knows no technology. They also often have very nice tribal dances to re-estabilish the balance of the universe. These are people without the rational mind - a naked tribesmen with an interest in balance of the universe and breast-feeding of piglets.
There is also another quality, called intuition. It's quite diffcult to train, but it's possible. It's also the highest of mental qualities, because it gives a direct knowledge, without necessary logical means of getting this knowledge.
If someone has a well developed lower mind, higher mind, and intuition, then it's a legendary person of science, who gave a great benefit to the humanity. With just lower mind, we have an ordinary, non-innovative scientist, a walking calculator. Without the lower mind, there's no way how advanced ideals can be realized in the material world, so the life turns out to be technologically inferior. The great intellectuals of today has already a very developed lower mind, so they will be amazing scientists, when they will develop also the higher mind, and intuition, if possible. The lower mind is very beneficial when the higher mind qualities becomes developed.
This is why I trust in them, they have a great potential. What mystics vaguely calls "spiritual energies", such people will discover, give it some cleverly sounding scientific name (Someone's boson, perhaps), and they will use it as a free energy source for heating of houses, transportation, production of electricity, healing and space travelling. This is also why I, the would-be visionary, have to remind them of these high-energetic 'parallel dimensions', as one of many people which will have to make this testimony, to awaken a scientific interest. For these purposes, a proving effort should be as good as disproving.  I have seen things to work beyond a scientific knowledge, this is why the scientific knowledge must be expanded, not rejected in favor of mysticism. Mysticism doesn't build spaceships Smiling

About an importance of faith for proving a hypothesis
As for the faith and belief, it should be made clear, that those are a sources of strength. When we need or want to accomplish something, but it's unlikely that it will work, we can use a faith to do it succesfully. People who believes in nothing doesn't have this kind of willpower. Some scientific inventions were discovered, just because a scientist had a faith in his hypothesis, and thus made a great effort to prove it, and was succesful. So it's obvious, that the power of faith should be used either for good (desirable) or true purposes. If the goal is not true, nor good (Jahweh) then it's a misdirected faith. But otherwise, the faith is a good personal feature and very useful even in a scientific work. This is the kind of faith iamthecoolestguyintheworld is talking about, I guess. Maybe he's not the most rational person in the world, but if he's speaking truth, he's got the girls and money, and that's what counts Smiling A things greater than we can see at the moment, must be begun with a leap of faith. First we must see if it works, the doubts can be used afterwards, but rather not during the early experiments.
 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Interesting

 What I find interesting is this.

 

If one does not believe in the validity of another individuals belief system. Why bother arguing about it. Religion is not based on reason and logic.

I think the so called "Rational Response Group" needs to go swallow some of its own medication. This blog is embarrassing to read.

Why not educate the 'common people' (so called) and give them a stronger belief system?

Yet this cannot be achieved as the Newtonian model of Physic's can only be used in so much to make 'rational' understanding of the world in which one lives to a certain degree.

My question to the rational response squad would be this..

 

If you truly do not believe in God. Whatever you think god is. Why do you spend your time arguing of the non-existence of God? Thereby advertising a perceived existence and making yourselves look

irrational?

 

I can understand that there are plenty of uneducated masses out there. But really if you tell a cow that it can eat better grass on another paddock. It simply has to walk down the road. I think it would reply

"Moo" If the existence of a god, which I lead more towards a pantheists belief system. If your belief system is the best, why do people not adopt such a system? What does the atheist offer?

 

I simply thinks Richard Dawkin's attempt at dis proove God was a laugh. People do not want to believe in nothing...

 

Even old Richard seemed dis-illusioned in his own documentary.

 

He seemed as if he was wondering where he fitted in the world. God or no god, who cares...

 

If you guys were real scientists you would simply keep advancing your worldview by your results.

Yet you seem to forget one issue... all men dream and whether logical or illogical we all posses superstition and this uncertainty can be represented in religion.

Science without religion is lame.

 

Forget about the advent of dualism. Science made a deal with the church. The church got the unseen, science the seen.

 

What is interesting about this is to note that the unseen of today is science. Would that mean that religion can now take is stance back?

 

Silly rhetoric and semantics do not achieve anything, as this message of mine will prove.

 

Go get a life. If these people are so stupid write a book about God, whatever you think it is. Make a million and spend the proceeds on scientific investigation.

Stop being little babies. Its pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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"religion"

Christianity is just a rip off of paganism. Look it up its historical fact. For all you people bitching about the LOA being bullshit you should really sit back and think as to why you allow yourselves to be brainwashed by a religion that has been more responsible for human deaths through war and radical religious beliefs than any human disease, accident, or natural disastor combined.


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 I can't believe I never

 I can't believe I never responded to this. Magical thinking. That's what it's called. It's a well-known, well-defined psychological mechanism.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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An Interesting "Secret" story.

 I'm not really one to argue back and forth about what belief system is right or wrong, I never have been unless I was trying to protect myself from prejudice, but I've only been hearing about The Secret for a year and a half or so. I've often thought that thinking positively could improve one's lifestyle, simply because someone who always has a negative outlook on life is bound to feel they have a bad life. But even in the worst of times, if people don't make it worse than it is, it's still possible to be happy, etc.

Despite that, a friend of mine (whom I worked with) started watching the secret dvd about a year ago. He'd watch it twice a day, and started preaching to everyone that they were living their life-styles "all-wrong," and that they could cure all their problems by believing they were already cured. I don't have a religion, and I don't care for the 'preaching' attitude, so I tried to ignore it all and stay neutral. Unfortunately he's had feelings for me for several years and I'd already said I just wanted to be friends. I was later informed by more than 6 friends that he truly believed the law of attraction would win me (insert: like a trophy). It was a very irritating feeling.

Long story short he quit his job after announcing he'd win the lottery by the end of the month, and is now homeless. He has no money so I don't know how he'd buy lottery tickets, and he's convinced that he'll become a super-scientist, to say the least.

I doubt everyone takes it to this extreme, but I thought it was an interesting story nonetheless. 

I'm an open-minded cynic.


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Iruka Naminori wrote:She

Iruka Naminori wrote:

She wants me to make copies of The Secret for her so she can spread it around.

If she's cute, send me her phone number. I got a secret law of attraction to share and I know a couple of things she can spread for me Eye-wink

 

Btw, that stuff is psychological torture.

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.


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Rhioka wrote: I'm not

Rhioka wrote:

 I'm not really one to argue back and forth about what belief system is right or wrong, I never have been unless I was trying to protect myself from prejudice, but I've only been hearing about The Secret for a year and a half or so. I've often thought that thinking positively could improve one's lifestyle, simply because someone who always has a negative outlook on life is bound to feel they have a bad life. But even in the worst of times, if people don't make it worse than it is, it's still possible to be happy, etc.

Despite that, a friend of mine (whom I worked with) started watching the secret dvd about a year ago. He'd watch it twice a day, and started preaching to everyone that they were living their life-styles "all-wrong," and that they could cure all their problems by believing they were already cured. I don't have a religion, and I don't care for the 'preaching' attitude, so I tried to ignore it all and stay neutral. Unfortunately he's had feelings for me for several years and I'd already said I just wanted to be friends. I was later informed by more than 6 friends that he truly believed the law of attraction would win me (insert: like a trophy). It was a very irritating feeling.

Long story short he quit his job after announcing he'd win the lottery by the end of the month, and is now homeless. He has no money so I don't know how he'd buy lottery tickets, and he's convinced that he'll become a super-scientist, to say the least.

I doubt everyone takes it to this extreme, but I thought it was an interesting story nonetheless. 

 

That is why this stuff is dangerous.  Positive thinking is fine, as long as everyone understands what that means.  When it gets dangerous is when people start to use it like magic.  There is a lady at work who will tell you straight to your face that you will get sick from negative thoughts, and positive thinking can keep you healthy, all the way up to curing cancer.

 

This stuff sounds reasonable to the un-rational person.  "Hey, I think positive and I feel better!", then they use coincidence and emotion to decide that means they are actually *physically* shaping the universe with their minds.  It is quite a leap, and I honestly don't think most people really understand what they are claiming.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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RE:Law of attraction

One day, I was driving in the car with my girlfriend, pondering what art we should put in our new apartment.  For just a couple moments i remembered how much I loved starry night by van gogh.  Later that day, I left for work, on the way out i saw the neighbor's garbage on their doorstep(this is an apartment complex).  So, since it is on my way i decided to take the garbage to the dumpster for them.  I go to the dumpster and what is next to it but a perfectly good copy of starry night by van gogh.  Now, one may at first claim this as what is commonly termed "conicidence".  However, these things happen to me on a daily basis, multiple times in one way or another. Nowadays even using the word coincidence is just silly to me. Thanks for keeping an open ear! Eye-wink

 

Many blessings

 

-Jacob


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FatherCRC wrote:One day, I

FatherCRC wrote:

One day, I was driving in the car with my girlfriend, pondering what art we should put in our new apartment.  For just a couple moments i remembered how much I loved starry night by van gogh.  Later that day, I left for work, on the way out i saw the neighbor's garbage on their doorstep(this is an apartment complex).  So, since it is on my way i decided to take the garbage to the dumpster for them.  I go to the dumpster and what is next to it but a perfectly good copy of starry night by van gogh.  Now, one may at first claim this as what is commonly termed "conicidence".  However, these things happen to me on a daily basis, multiple times in one way or another. Nowadays even using the word coincidence is just silly to me. Thanks for keeping an open ear! Eye-wink

 

Many blessings

 

-Jacob

 

So, did God take control of their brains and make them throw away the painting, or did he cause it to appear out of nothing?  Or perhaps you took control of their brains?

Magical thinking is usually selfish.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Vastet
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FatherCRC wrote:One day, I

FatherCRC wrote:

One day, I was driving in the car with my girlfriend, pondering what art we should put in our new apartment.  For just a couple moments i remembered how much I loved starry night by van gogh.  Later that day, I left for work, on the way out i saw the neighbor's garbage on their doorstep(this is an apartment complex).  So, since it is on my way i decided to take the garbage to the dumpster for them.  I go to the dumpster and what is next to it but a perfectly good copy of starry night by van gogh.  Now, one may at first claim this as what is commonly termed "conicidence".  However, these things happen to me on a daily basis, multiple times in one way or another. Nowadays even using the word coincidence is just silly to me. Thanks for keeping an open ear! Eye-wink

 

Many blessings

 

-Jacob

I don't believe you.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.