Religion doesn't harm you, so back off!

JJpnoi
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Religion doesn't harm you, so back off!

[MOD NOTE: THIS WAS SPLIT FROM A THREAD THAT IT DIDN'T BELONG IN]

Theres one flaw I always find in people when it comes to religion(or lack of religion). Its that people are either not serious or are too serious about their beliefs that they try to disprove everyone else. The belief in afterlife isnt meant to discourage a well lived life but is more of a goal we can achieve by being good to our fellow men.

I agree that the Bible may have been easily altered by those in power back in the day...waay in the day, so those highly religious people shouldnt take the scriptures word for word. The same goes for you overzealous atheists.

As for my opinion on God and death. Those deaths in the Bible may have been put in there to incite fear in the people. When one dies, he's not really taking life from him because he in essence returns to him. Unless he made bad choices in his life on earth. God presents the situations but we have the free will to chose what path we take. Of course it would sadden Him to see one go to hell even though he knew it all along. Irrational, yes. Comforting, yes. Does it harm you in any way? No. So back off! Happy New Year!


AtheistInWonderland
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JJpnoi wrote: Does it harm

JJpnoi wrote:
Does it harm you in any way? No. So back off! Happy New Year!

Quote:
"Everybody hates death, fears death, but only those, the believers who know the life after death and the reward after death, would be the ones who will be seeking death." - Mohamed Atta

People's belief in an afterlife does harm me. I live in the Bible Belt and there are many people here that are content to remain in poverty their entire lives because they think all will be made right in an afterlife. This effects the economy because many of these people don't try to work themselves out of poverty and are content to just make it through this life to get to the next more important one. If there is no afterlife this is extremely sad. People could have done more to enjoy their lives and not live in miserable impoverished conditions, but chose not to because of their belief in an afterlife.

If you had a friend who was positive that he was going to win the lottery so he chose not to try to better himself and was just waiting around until he won the lottery..wouldn't you say "Hey man, you aren't going to win the lottery?"

There are many aspects of belief in an afterlife that cause unnecessary suffering in the world. Consider in third world countries where poverty, malnutrition and death by starvation is rampant. People continue to have children even when they are having trouble feeding themselves. Some of these people have even had children die of malnutrition but continue to reproduce. I have even heard stories of parents who would have children and then set them in the woods to die. This is extremely sad. I contemplated about what would cause these people to do this, to have children that stood a good chance of dieing a slow cruel death by starvation. These people think that they will be reunited in an afterlife with their children.

Another sad fact about belief in an afterlife is that it demotivates people to fight to survive when standing at the edge of death. Say in a car wreck for instance. There have been many people who have stared death in the face but fought it off and came back to have many more enjoyable years of life. As an unbeliever in an afterlife, if I am ever staring death in the face I will fight it off to the best of my ability. If I thought that by giving up my fight to survive that I would enter eternal bliss, it would give me a reason to give up my fight.

And that is not even getting into the psychological effects that belief in hell has on people.

What if I said that other people owning slaves doesn't effect me. So if I lived back then I shouldn't have spoke out against it? Belief in an afterlife devalues this life and causes suffering in the world. I am sure there is no afterlife and it makes me sad to see people take their only life and devalue it because of wishful thinking.

"The destroyer of weeds, thistles and thorns is a benefactor whether he soweth grain or not." [Robert G. Ingersoll, motto on the title page of "Some Mistakes of Moses"]


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Not to mention that religion

Not to mention that religion is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the HIV virus and other diseases.

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I think Staks' Wager pretty

I think Staks' Wager pretty much sums up why your reasoning is flawed. It's about 9 minutes, but it is definitely worth your time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qdM3FaGR6I

 

 


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Vastet wrote: Not to

Vastet wrote:
Not to mention that religion is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the HIV virus and other diseases.

I think the argument here is about a belief in the afterlife, specifically. But yea, religion has played a role in the spreading of HIV. Although, it seems like I have read something recently about the pope making condom use ok in Africa... or something like that.

...it’s funny how religious leaders have the power to change the rules or even God or the afterlife at times.

But as far as the afterlife thing goes, Hell is often used to invoke fear into people to get them to do "God's will." Trust me. This tactic was used on me and it worked for most of my life. It's not a healthy thing... living in fear all the time for your soul.

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Quote: God presents the

Quote:
God presents the situations but we have the free will to chose what path we take.

 Although in the end it is up to him.

Quote:
Of course it would sadden Him to see one go to hell even though he knew it all along.

 Gee, I hate to see people go to hell, but I'm to medamn lazy to do anything about it, it's like i'd rather see people burn forever then just do a humongus miracle and remove all doubt.

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Does it harm you in any way?

Yes. From the looks of things, I'm doubting you are american.

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JJpnoi wrote: When one

JJpnoi wrote:
When one dies, he's not really taking life from him because he in essence returns to him. Unless he made bad choices in his life on earth.

So why do Christians feel that it's wrong to kill Christians? When one dies, they're not really having life taken, because they're going back to God. As todangt always says, it's the central contradiction of the theist mind: they believe in an afterlife of eternal life and bliss, yet they still fear death.

 

Quote:
Comforting, yes. Does it harm you in any way? No. So back off! Happy New Year!

 Righto. Belief in an afterlife has never harmed anyone. On a totally different subject, I think I'll go visit the Olympic games and and some lounges in the Atlanta/Alabama area and then schlep on over to the World Trade Center in New York City to watch the ball drop. Waitaminute--

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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JJpnoi wrote:but is more

JJpnoi wrote:
but is more of a goal we can achieve by being good to our fellow men.
How is kissing a god's ass good for humankind?

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So back off! 
So fuck off!

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Quote: Theres one flaw I

Quote:
Theres one flaw I always find in people when it comes to religion(or lack of religion). Its that people are either not serious or are too serious about their beliefs that they try to disprove everyone else.

This middle ground you're talking about rings a little too close to apathy for me. There's nothing to be gained from religious moderation; You defy reason and mysticism in the same breath. What does that make you? A wet blanket in my book.

Quote:
The belief in afterlife isnt meant to discourage a well lived life but is more of a goal we can achieve by being good to our fellow men.

Which is the sugar-coated version I so often hear from religious moderates. The truth is, this belief often degrades the quality of life. I see no benefit in walking through life with the constant burden of shame tied to your shoulders.

Quote:
I agree that the Bible may have been easily altered by those in power back in the day...waay in the day, so those highly religious people shouldnt take the scriptures word for word. The same goes for you overzealous atheists.

Why not take them word for word? Is the entire bible symbolic? Is any of it literal? How can you tell which passages are meant to be interpereted which way? Seems like you might just be cherry-picking the parts you like and leaving out the parts you aren't willing to believe.

As for the issue of the people who do take scripture word for word; they're doing some pretty rotten things in the name of their interperatation. I'm not saying you condone these things, but leaving it up to "well, some people will take the bible literally but they shouldn't." is irresponsible at best and criminally negligent at worst.

Quote:
As for my opinion on God and death. Those deaths in the Bible may have been put in there to incite fear in the people.

Believing this, you still insist that religion doesn't degrade the quality of life?

Quote:
When one dies, he's not really taking life from him because he in essence returns to him. Unless he made bad choices in his life on earth.

Or they don't. When one dies, they get a coffin, a pair of cardboard shoes and the brief realization that they wasted their short life on fairy tales and self-loathing before they dissolve into nothing. Unless I'm wrong and you have a mountain of evidence to support your claim.

Quote:
God presents the situations but we have the free will to chose what path we take. Of course it would sadden Him to see one go to hell even though he knew it all along.

If he knew it all along, then did we really have a choice? You might want to re-read this part.

Quote:
Irrational, yes. Comforting, yes. Does it harm you in any way? No. So back off!

It harms plenty of people. I would still oppose religion even if it had played no part in my life because it scripts the lives of so many. Are you unable to care about anything that doesn't effect you directly? Then congratulations, you have a shitty attitude.

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


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An example of no harm

An example of no harm being done.


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Can anyone smell a "True

Can anyone smell a "True Scotsman" fallacy on the horison.

 

"My deity wouldn't allow me to do that"

 

Says the majority of Christians in America that dispise atheits. Push these people enough and I wouldnt put anything past them.

 

"We dont do that" claims the "true" Christian failing to remember that people have, in the past picked up holy books and slaughtered most of Europe because daddy told them they could have it. Then they came to the Americas inslaving blacks and slaughtering entire native American tribes because daddy told them they could have the land.

"We dont do that now" doesnt mean those things wont happen again. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote: Can anyone

Brian37 wrote:

Can anyone smell a "True Scotsman" fallacy on the horison.

 

"My deity wouldn't allow me to do that"

 

Says the majority of Christians in America that dispise atheits. Push these people enough and I wouldnt put anything past them.

 

"We dont do that" claims the "true" Christian failing to remember that people have, in the past picked up holy books and slaughtered most of Europe because daddy told them they could have it. Then they came to the Americas inslaving blacks and slaughtering entire native American tribes because daddy told them they could have the land.

"We dont do that now" doesnt mean those things wont happen again.

 

That's very true, but other factors besides religon played into the racism/ethnocentrism that killed many in Europe and America enslaved people. I've met many racists who don't believe in God; they simply state that one race is genetically better than another and more evolved- no religion involved. I believe people would kill no matter what. Religion only restrains a few, morals only restrain a few. Historical wars like WWI, II were more over people getting into cultural superiority, which could easily happen again. All the science or religion in the world does not stop a man or woman when they are angry or desperate enough to kill another human being.


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JeremiahSmith

JeremiahSmith wrote:

JJpnoi wrote:
When one dies, he's not really taking life from him because he in essence returns to him. Unless he made bad choices in his life on earth.

So why do Christians feel that it's wrong to kill Christians? When one dies, they're not really having life taken, because they're going back to God. As todangt always says, it's the central contradiction of the theist mind: they believe in an afterlife of eternal life and bliss, yet they still fear death.

 And if we Christians want to die, how would we fufill the Great Commission God ordained us with?


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Why dont you ask the

Why dont you ask the crusaders?


doc101
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Rook_Hawkins wrote:

Rook_Hawkins wrote:
Why dont you ask the crusaders?

 

That attacked/stole(i.e. plundered) their own cities? Doesn't seem like Christians to me

 

Mind clarifying your statement though?

 

 


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JJpnoi wrote:

JJpnoi wrote:
[MOD NOTE: THIS WAS SPLIT FROM A THREAD THAT IT DIDN'T BELONG IN] Theres one flaw I always find in people when it comes to religion(or lack of religion). Its that people are either not serious or are too serious about their beliefs that they try to disprove everyone else. The belief in afterlife isnt meant to discourage a well lived life but is more of a goal we can achieve by being good to our fellow men. I agree that the Bible may have been easily altered by those in power back in the day...waay in the day, so those highly religious people shouldnt take the scriptures word for word. The same goes for you overzealous atheists. As for my opinion on God and death. Those deaths in the Bible may have been put in there to incite fear in the people. When one dies, he's not really taking life from him because he in essence returns to him. Unless he made bad choices in his life on earth. God presents the situations but we have the free will to chose what path we take. Of course it would sadden Him to see one go to hell even though he knew it all along. Irrational, yes. Comforting, yes. Does it harm you in any way? No. So back off! Happy New Year!

Quote:
The belief in afterlife isnt meant to discourage a well lived life but is more of a goal we can achieve by being good to our fellow men

"MENT' key word. What ever is ment the actions of far too many religious people dont bare that out.

In Palistine and in Isreal the ambulances have the respective icons of their religions on them. That isnt objective good for all, it is a billboard for the club to say, "Hey look at my club, we do good", but what ends up happening is that they still kill their neighbors anyway. That good is only ment for the good of the club, not humanity.

You see that in American missionaries too. The two women who were were wrongly arrested in Afganistan for being Christian is another example that both the Christian and Muslim miss.

Those women who brought bibles and crosses with them never stopped to think, "Hey you dont think some people might take this as, "your religion sucks, take this bible instead"

The Muslims who arrested them never stopped to think, "Hey maybe they dont mean us harm"

The reason both miss the point is because both have club memberships to maintain and increase.

Quote:
The same goes for you overzealous atheists.

You'd have a case if I were president ending every speach with, "Jesus is a myth". But who is overzealous in a country where an atheist cant even get ellected president even though the Constitution doesnt prevent one from running?

Quote:
Does it harm you in any way? No. So back off!

It certainly does harm me and you too. 9/11 was caused by people who believed in a comforting god that told them they could have their peace by killing the people that disrupted their peace.

Religion has been the cause of slavery and genocide and toruture. You simply think that because you live in America that we wont backslide into the same tribalistic tyranical behaivor we now accuse the middle east of. WE WONT, as long as religion and government remain seperate.

"As the goverment of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" Artical 11 Treaty of Tripoly (AKA) Barbary Treaty signed by both houses of congress without dissent and signed into law by President John Adams June 10th 1797

United States Constitution also says:

"no religious test" refuring to tests to gain public office .Go read it. I'm not telling you where it is because should read the entire Constitution anyway.

Quote:
So back off!

Come on now, you dont simply want us to "back off" you want us to "shut up!" That is what you really want and too bad for you that isnt going to happen.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37