Denying the Holy Spirit pisses people off (videos of dissent)

MattShizzle
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Denying the Holy Spirit pisses people off (videos of dissent)

I'm actually surprised how pissed off people get. Some of the comments on the videos for one thing. I also put a link to mine on another site and someone said it was the most offensive thing she ever saw in her life! Shocked

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It's offensive if we don't

It's offensive if we don't speak up. If we don't speak up we let our fellow man be governed myth, that's offensive and obscene to me.

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MattShizzle
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The dickhead banned me from

The dickhead banned me from a community on communities.com now for it. He also objected when I talked about pimpin'. Now I know why. His momma was probably a hoe!

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Did you pimp slap her?

Did you pimp slap her?

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MattShizzle
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Not that I remember, but I'd

Not that I remember, but I'd like to pimp slap that dork. I fucking hate religion. Oh well, this is probably my favorite website anyway.

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I wonder if that guy has

I wonder if that guy has read some of the darker parts of the bible or looked into wars or anything like that...


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Quote:I also put a link to

Quote:
I also put a link to mine on another site and someone said it was the most offensive thing she ever saw in her life!

Can you post the link here?


MattShizzle
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Here: http://www.youtube.com/

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Caeh5j-Q7wE

And have you seen some of the hateful comments on these videos? One actually said I have the eyes of a child molester (has he examined the eyes of child molesters?) All they got is ad hominem and the same old tired bullshit.

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Somebody doesn't wike it

Somebody doesn't wike it when der wittle gawd is wade fun of.

Make sure to rate his drivel 1 star.

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Done. What a moron.

Done. What a moron.


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I like that blaspheme

I like that blaspheme challenge you guys setup. Now I just have to go setup my webcame so I can join the rest of you Smiling

One trend I'm seeing in the comments that is really starting to get on my nerves is that everyone is asking for our proof of their lack of proof. ugh... I find myself getting iritated at answering the same thoughtless questions over and over again. I can't imagine what it's like for the RRS hosts.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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sa-weet. I'm too painfully

sa-weet. I'm too painfully shy to go on a web cam and do that.


MattShizzle
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Fuck religion!

Fuck religion!


hethsixoespa
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What is this blasphemy

What is this blasphemy challenge, could one of you explain, I heard something on the radio that said that it was based off a verse in Mark?

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Haha Matt, I love it how you

Haha Matt, I love it how you just go "fuck the holy spirit". Although I was almost waiting for a "in the ear" at the end Smiling


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hethsixoespa wrote:What is

hethsixoespa wrote:
What is this blasphemy challenge, could one of you explain, I heard something on the radio that said that it was based off a verse in Mark?

http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/

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blasphemy challenge

Could you explain in your own words what it is and what it means to you? Is it a joke?


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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wow. I thought the link

wow. I thought the link explained it pretty thoroughly. hethsixoespa, it's not a joke. Believing in an invisible friend and making laws that support the notion is not a joke either.


hethsixoespa
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marthaspatterhead

What is blasphemy to you, Marthasplatterhead? What do you think it means to blaspheme the holy spirit, as the bible says? (Be thorough please).

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hethsixoespa wrote:What is

hethsixoespa wrote:
What is blasphemy to you, Marthasplatterhead? What do you think it means to blaspheme the holy spirit, as the bible says? (Be thorough please).

The definition of blaspheme is to speak disrespectful of God or sacred entity. According to the Bibull, if you do this you will not be accepted into heaven. (I believe the passage was mentioned already). I deny the Holey Spirit, therefore I will not be going to a fantasy world when I die. Once these words are spoken, the religious person can no longer attempt to save the soul of the blasphemer. It's a loss cause. In doing this on YouTube, atheists can assert what it means to be an atheist-the lack of god belief. Religious people can get mad and name call and threaten the atheist with hell but it just goes to show how they don't use facts just hatefulness and ignorance.

I really hope this is what you were looking for. If not, please ask exactly what aspect of blaspheming you are looking for and I will try my best. Peace

edit
Whoops. Not up there. Here it tis: Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Also there's this: Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 12:10
But unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.


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Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

You guys are not commiting the unforgivable sin, infact the whole idea that you guys think it is so simple to commit the unforgivable sin is very funny, let me explain.

I go into a building I hate, and I piss and crap all over the place, I mean I spell my friggen name on the wall with my piss, I leave thinking I have done the most beautiful decorating job ever. The next day I find out the place is a church, oh no! Did I commit a blasphemous act? No, because I didn't know it was a church at the time of doing it. It is called the guilty mind, and there is several places in the scriptures where it talks about "what is on the heart" not the actual act, in terms of law, I had no mens rea in the terms of blasphemy.

Declaring you don't believe in the holy spirit IS NOT blasphemy. It is only blasphemy if you actually think the holy spirt exists and or is sacred, and then say it doesn't exist. None of you could get a surefire golden ticket to hell if you wanted to, because none of you honestly believe in the holy spirit or that is sacred.

You would have a better chance of commiting the "unforgivable sin" if you were to call the Holy Spirit Evil, but even then you would first have to -acknowledge- the holy spirt exists.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, I know you all really want to goto hell. I understand the fact that you want to blame something for the problems in the world, even though people are perfectly capable of killing eachother -without- religion, and more often then not religion is not the reason, it is the facade for common human hatred.


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Jonathan wrote:You guys are

Jonathan wrote:
You guys are not commiting the unforgivable sin, infact the whole idea that you guys think it is so simple to commit the unforgivable sin is very funny, let me explain.

I go into a building I hate, and I piss and crap all over the place, I mean I spell my friggen name on the wall with my piss, I leave thinking I have done the most beautiful decorating job ever. The next day I find out the place is a church, oh no! Did I commit a blasphemous act? No, because I didn't know it was a church at the time of doing it. It is called the guilty mind, and there is several places in the scriptures where it talks about "what is on the heart" not the actual act, in terms of law, I had no mens rea in the terms of blasphemy.

Declaring you don't believe in the holy spirit IS NOT blasphemy. It is only blasphemy if you actually think the holy spirt exists and or is sacred, and then say it doesn't exist. None of you could get a surefire golden ticket to hell if you wanted to, because none of you honestly believe in the holy spirit or that is sacred.

You would have a better chance of commiting the "unforgivable sin" if you were to call the Holy Spirit Evil, but even then you would first have to -acknowledge- the holy spirt exists.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, I know you all really want to goto hell. I understand the fact that you want to blame something for the problems in the world, even though people are perfectly capable of killing eachother -without- religion, and more often then not religion is not the reason, it is the facade for common human hatred.

I was raised Christian. I prayed, went to church. I was "saved." Now I deny the Holey Spirit. Surely if Hell exists that's where I'm going. Where in Mark 3:29 does it say I have to believe in the holey spirit? Read it again.


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I am happy for you, I am

I am happy for you, I am sure you are way happier now.

Where does it say you have to believe in the holy spirit? It is intrinsic to the word blasphemy.


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I said "Fuck the Holy

I said "Fuck the Holy spirit." We are not "trying to go to hell." We don't believe God, the Holy Spirit or Hell exist, and we are showing just how scared we are.

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Exactly you don't believe in

Exactly you don't believe in the holy spirit, and you don't believe the holy spirit is sacred, therefore you can't commit an act of blasphemy against something you don't believe in and/or hold sacred.

If say a christian who is fully believes in the holy spirit and is under the impression it exists were to say they don't believe, or it is evil, then they would be commiting blasphemy.


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Jonathan wrote:Exactly you

Jonathan wrote:
Exactly you don't believe in the holy spirit, and you don't believe the holy spirit is sacred, therefore you can't commit an act of blasphemy against something you don't believe in and/or hold sacred.

If say a christian who is fully believes in the holy spirit and is under the impression it exists were to say they don't believe, or it is evil, then they would be commiting blasphemy.


ahh come on, I see no point here. The passage clearly states what it says.


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Christians are very good at

Christians are very good at "editing" the bad or stupid parts of the Babble.


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blashemy

Marthaspatterhead, may I call you Martha for short?

The greek word used for blaspheme in those passages is blasphemeo (strongs 987,988, and 989), and it means to speak impiously, slanderous, or to have impious speech. The context of the passage in Mark 3:28, 29, is found in verses 20-27. The religous leaders had accused Jesus of being possessed by Satan when he was casting out demons. They were attributing to the Devil the work that Jesus, who claimed to be God, was doing. Indeed what the religous leaders were doing was blasphemy, but not against the Holy spirit, but agianst Jesus. Matthew 12:32 also inlcudes..."Anyone who blasphemes against me, the Son of Man, can be forgiven..." That is precisely what the religous leaders were doing, blaspheming, or attributing to the Devil the work of God, against Jesus. To bring it back around...blasphemy against the Holy Spirit then, would be attributing to the devil the work of the Holy Spirit. The religous leaders in were in no way denying the existence of God, the Messiah (they were, though, denying that Jesus was the messiah), or the Holy Spirit. In fact, in order to attribute to Satan the work of God, you must believe that God exists as the religous leaders did. If you don't believe that God exists, you can't attribute his work to Satan. Denying the existence of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is not blasphemy, it's merely believing that they don't exist, which is not dealt with in the three passages cited.

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2 : irreverence toward

2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

From webster. It is not editing, and with any "sin" it is not about objectivity it is about subjectivity. It doesn't matter if you appear to be blaspheming to everyone else, it matters if you're blaspheming personally.

If you don't believe the holy spirit is sacred and or exists, you can't blaspheme against it personally.

Christians who burn down a mosque aren't commiting blasphemy to themselves, but to the muslims they have commited a blasphemous act.

That said, the new testament is littered with problems, if any scripture is 'valid' it is mostly like only the old testament. Scribes added all kinds of crap to validate their points, the scribe who wrote matthew probably had something against people showing irreverance to the holy spirit.

But that is my point, my point is you can't commit blasphemy against something you don't personally believe exists and/or is sacred.


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That doesn't even make

That doesn't even make sense. Who that actually believed Christianity true would be dumb enough to do that?

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Exactly.

Exactly.


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OK, I will break it down.

OK, I will break it down. Under Christian doctrine, we all, you and me and mankind, are God's, in particular, Yahweh's, children. Yes? When any of His children speak against Him, we are blaspheming. This goes for any religion that is not about Yahweh, as well. Please do not lie (esp. to yourself). In the passage it clearly states

Quote:
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men
.

Where does this say, "unless he doesn't believe in Me, then all bets are off?"

and

Quote:
but whosoever [*except atheist's] speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

*here I added your assumption of the verse.

blas·pheme Pronunciation (bls-fm, blsfm)
v. blas·phemed, blas·phem·ing, blas·phemes
v.tr.
1. To speak of (God or a sacred entity) in an irreverent, impious manner.
2. To revile; execrate.
v.intr.
To speak blasphemy.
[Middle English blasfemen, from Old French blasfemer, from Late Latin blasphmre, from Greek blasphmein, from blasphmos, evil-speaking, blasphemous; see bh-2 in Indo-European roots.]

Don't try to twist the meaning of blaspheme. It doesn't say "1. To speak of (God or a sacred entity that one believes in) in an irreverent, impious manner.

But all this aside, I would like to say the idea behind the blaspheme challenge is also a way for atheists to out themselves and perhaps provide a bit of empowerment. I do not wish to argue the semantics. I think you get the idea. Take care. Eye-wink


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Blasphemy is to do something

Blasphemy is to do something negative to something considered sacred.

The idea I am posing is, considered by who? The position I am taking is that sin can only be regarded subjectively in the context of the own person's belief system. Again I present the example of a christian burning down a mosque, while a christian might be sinning by commiting the act, it is not considered blasphemy to themselves or other christians, but to the muslims it is.

To a christian onlooker a person saying they deny the holy spirit is commiting blasphemy, but if the person doesn't actually consider the holy spirit sacred to them they are not commiting blasphemy - they are only commiting blasphemy from an objective view point or the view point of the christian onlooker.

Words mean nothing. In order to commit blasphemy YOU, not others, have to KNOW something is sacred and then do something to defile it.

While making these videos will make christians get their panties in a twist (I know it will) it doesn't negate the fact that personally a person saying they don't believe in the holy spirit, when they really don't, is not blasphemy.


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Jonathan wrote:Exactly you

Jonathan wrote:
Exactly you don't believe in the holy spirit, and you don't believe the holy spirit is sacred, therefore you can't commit an act of blasphemy against something you don't believe in and/or hold sacred.

You forget that many of us are apostates. I was at one time a staunch Catholic. I DID believe. I've since renounced, ala "the unforgivable sin" that tripe.

Quote:
If say a christian who is fully believes in the holy spirit and is under the impression it exists were to say they don't believe, or it is evil, then they would be commiting blasphemy.

Indeed, and that's the point Flemming makes in his movie. To question or entertain doubt when you DO believe is a VERY scary thing to do.

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Yellow_Number_Five
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Quote:While making these

Quote:
While making these videos will make christians get their panties in a twist (I know it will) it doesn't negate the fact that personally a person saying they don't believe in the holy spirit, when they really don't, is not blasphemy.

Right, because the people who didn't actually believe would be going to hell anyway.

Believe and blaspheme=hell.

Don't believe and blaspheme=hell, but according to you not for specifically renouncing the Holy Ghost.

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Jonathan wrote:The position

Jonathan wrote:
The position I am taking is that sin can only be regarded subjectively in the context of the own person's belief system. Again I present the example of a christian burning down a mosque, while a christian might be sinning by commiting the act, it is not considered blasphemy to themselves or other christians, but to the muslims it is.

You have disproved your own point. Muslims would consider it blasphemy, regardless of the fact that the Christian doesn't believe in Allah. Likewise, God, if he exists, would consider denying the holy spirit of blasphemy, regardless of whether you believe in him or not.

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natural, I was thinking the

natural,

I was thinking the same thing when I read that post.

But this is really a stupid argument. The fact is that we don't believe in the Holy Spirit, so we agree that there is no actual crime--whether because of some interpretation or because there is no victim.

The reason I made my video was to show that I actually do not believe in God, and I'm not afraid to demonstrate my sincere lack of belief.

Too often, I talk with people who cannot even admit that I really do not believe. They believe, according to some interpretation of some scripture, that everyone has God written in their heart, so everyone believes. Some of us, they say, simply don't want to recognize their sin and be responsible for it, so we (atheists) simply ignore and deny God.

If that interpretation is correct, then we are still committing blasphemy, because we really know God is there but are simply denying it.

Of course that's BS too, so whatever.

Jonathon, your interpretation is just that; interpretation. I don't read it that way. But, again, it matters for shit because blasphemy is a victimless crime. I might as well say that I deny Thor and Odin, and they like to switch off pitching and catching. It's an intended insult towards the gods, it's just I'm not worried about the ramifications because I don't believe they exist. That last part is the point, not whether, according to Norse myths, my saying so is actually considered a crime in any way.

Shaun

I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.


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marthaspatterhead

Martha-

Indeed all may blaspheme whatever they want, God included. But the specific tense of Blaspheme in the three passages we are discussing refers not to a general disrespect, but specifically what the religous leaders were doing, which was attributing to the devil the work that jesus was doing. The passage in Matthew says that even blasphemy against the Son of God could be forgiven. The religous leaders were not denying the existence of anything, as the participants in the challenge videos do, for that is something that most people do at some point in there lives. What they were doing was far more severe, but still forgivable, as they were doing it to jesus, and not the holy spirit.

This is not twisting anything, but looking at the context of the passage we are discussing, and you can't dismiss that.

That's fine if you want to empower yourselves, as long as you understand that the meaning that has been derived from those passages has been taken out of the context of the situation, it's simply that easy. You aren't a lost cause for denying the existence of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.

If you still do not want to discuss then I will leave you alone.

Hethsixoespa; To learn you must love discipline, it is stupid to hate correction.


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Even then, Martha, merely to

Even then, Martha, merely to repeat words doesn't accomplish anything. The blashpeme of the Holy Spirit must be a continual and true belief and disregard for the Holy Spirit, not just denying his existence and repeating a phrase. What matters is what you truly believe, it doesn't matter what you say.

Hethsixoespa; To learn you must love discipline, it is stupid to hate correction.


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Quote:Martha- Indeed all may

Quote:
Martha-

Indeed all may blaspheme whatever they want, God included. But the specific tense of Blaspheme in the three passages we are discussing refers not to a general disrespect, but specifically what the religous leaders were doing,

Where is that passage?

Quote:
which was attributing to the devil the work that jesus was doing. The passage in Matthew says that even blasphemy against the Son of God could be forgiven.

...but not the Holy Ghost. I'm pretty sure that's what it says.

Quote:
The religous leaders were not denying the existence of anything, as the participants in the challenge videos do, for that is something that most people do at some point in there lives. What they were doing was far more severe, but still forgivable, as they were doing it to jesus, and not the holy spirit.

I am not an idiot and I know where you are trying to go with this. I want you to understand this: I was raised Christian. I believed in God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus as One. I have read a lot of the Bibull. I volunteered when I was young to help at the retirement home with my church. I saw the good in that. I am not trying to get off subject but I think you are implying that I was not Christian "enough" and I take offense to that since I gave my heart to that belief. When I do what the passage says is the unforgivable sin then I am blaspheming for crying out loud.

Quote:
This is not twisting anything, but looking at the context of the passage we are discussing, and you can't dismiss that.

I am looking at the passage and what I read is what it says. I don't know why there's a need to "interpret" it.

Quote:
That's fine if you want to empower yourselves, as long as you understand that the meaning that has been derived from those passages has been taken out of the context of the situation, it's simply that easy.

Again you are telling me it was taken out of context. I want proof, a passage you are referring to that will back up this point that you are trying to make.

Quote:
You aren't a lost cause for denying the existence of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, because he doesn't exist.

Quote:
If you still do not want to discuss then I will leave you alone.

I will discuss anything until I see that we aren't getting anywhere. I almost think we are at that point but maybe not. I think you have an interesting take on the whole thing. I am assuming you are a Christian? As a Christian, you are probably pretty good at justifying whatever you think. I don't mean this as a put down because to be a Christian means one has the power to rationalize anything. Example, donkey's talking. Numbers 22:28
Yahweh then gave the donkey the power to talk, and she said to Balaam, 'What harm have I done to you, for you to strike me three times like this?' and Numbers 22:30 The donkey said to Balaam, 'Am I not your donkey, and have you not been riding me all your life? Have I ever behaved like this with you before?' 'No,' replied Balaam. Now, when I read those passages, I think wtf? a talking donkey? But a Christian may read that and think "well god can do anything so it's probable back in those days when miracles where more abundant that a donkey could talk." Or as I've heard before too, "it's just symbolism."

Quote:
Even then, Martha, merely to repeat words doesn't accomplish anything.

I don't know what you are referring to. Esp. since that is what preachers do no matter any evidence against the bibull.

Quote:
The blashpeme of the Holy Spirit must be a continual and true belief and disregard for the Holy Spirit, not just denying his existence and repeating a phrase. What matters is what you truly believe, it doesn't matter what you say.

Whether or not I believe doesn't mean squat. (Refer to Yellow Number 5 post above).


JeremiahSmith
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It's amazing the

It's amazing the rationalizations people come up with to discount blasphemy against the holy Spirit.

The eternal penalty for blaspheming the Holy Spirit is mentioned in Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:29, and Luke 12:10. It's good to note that the verse in Luke has no context of the Pharisees attributing Jesus's works to Satan; an early Christian with access only to Luke would never know about this context. In any case, there's no indication given in the context that attributing Christ's work to Satan is the only way to commit the unforgivable blasphemy, only that it is one of the ways.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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marthaspatterhead

Martha-

The context to which I was referring is as follows:
Mark 3:20-30-When Jesus returned to the house where he was staying, the crowds began to gather again, and soon he and his disciples couldn't even find time to eat. When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him home with them. "He's out of his mind," they said. But the teachers of religous law who had arrived from Jeruselum said, "He's possessed by Satan, the prince of demons. That's where he gets the power to cast out demons." Jesus called them over and said to them by way of illustration, "How can Satan cast out Satan? A kingdom at war with itself will collapse. A home divided against itself is doomed...I assure you that any sin can be forgiven, including blasphemy; but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. It is an eternal sin." He told them this because they were saying he had an evil spirit.

You see the context of the passage, Jesus was talking to the religous leaders and responding to what they were saying. The religous leaders adamently believed in God, the Holy Spirit and the Messiah, but were attributing Jesus power to the devil because they couldn't admit that he was the messiah.

Indeed you are right to say that blasphemy against the Son of Man is forgivable and not blaspemy against the Holy Spirit.

Whether or not you were a Christian at some point I had no idea and was not trying to imply anything of that nature...that is not something that I can be the judge of...I would say that is between you and God. I do apologize for any offense, and for implying that you are an idiot, for I certainly do not think that.

I understand what you are saying about doing what the passage says, but I think you may be mistaken as to what the passage says. You believe that simply repeating the words will secure your damnation. But words do not carry any power to either save yourself or damn yourself...it would be the same as just saying, "Lord I accept you as my savior" and then expecting to be saved because you said it. For you must truly believe it with all your being. If that is the case with yourself, then according to the bible you are indeed still saved, and the Holy Spirit still dwells within you, but again i cannot judge that.

Everything written must be interpretted as to the author's intention meaning. I think what you are referring to is reading into the passage (?), and I assure you that I am not. All of what I said can be easily derived from the passage.

As to your being a lost cause, if you don't believe in God, then from your perspective you aren't lost to anything.

As to justifing whatever I think, I am not terribly good at that. My first response to you took me over an hour to research.

As to the donkey, I don't think it was symbolism, I do think that God gave the donkey the ability to speak to balaam in that situation. Ironically, that story is often God Balaam and his Donkey (also called an ass), when it appears as Balaam was being the ass. (Ass is also another good example of meaning two different things depending upon the context).

Certainly I would not try to justify what many preachers say and claim to be true.

Whether or not you believe is the core of the matter. I would say that God cares far less what you say than what you actually believe...it's like telling a lie: you believe one thing and deliberately say another, yet telling the lie does not make it true, because words have no intrinsic power.

And I don't think our discussion is falling into the realm of getting know-where (how do you spell that?)

Hethsixoespa; To learn you must love discipline, it is stupid to hate correction.


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So you are saying that the

So you are saying that the ONLY way to blaspheme the holy spirit is to attribute its works to satan, simply because thats what the guys were doing when he said that? So, if he had said that while they were eating fish, eating fish would have been the only way to blaspheme the hs?

Your argument is completely illogical, and defies the deffinition of the word "blaspheme".

I do, with all my mind and rational thought, believe the hs is as fictitious as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, unicorns, and all other manner of mythological creatures.

Oh, and just for good measure: Anything and everything reportedly done by the HS was not done by the HS but rather by works of Man. (Is that good enough? Since I don't believe in Satan any more than I believe in gods, I can't very well say Satan did anything...)


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Symok

Symok, how are ya?

No, that is not the only way to blaspheme the holy spirit, because blaspheme means to speak impiously. But in the passage that I have been discussing with Martha, Mark 3:20-30, defines blaspheme more specifically within its context. The religous leaders, who couldn't admit that Jesus was the messiah, attributed Jesus' power to cast out demons to the devil. Verses 29 and 30 read: ..."but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. He told them [the religous leaders] this because they were saying he had an evil spirit." That is the reason Jesus' responded the way that he did. Many times have the religous leaders blasphemed Jesus, but it was when they attributed his power to Satan that he responded with this specific answer. It's not illogical at all, and it doesn't defy the definition of blaspheme. The context of the passage simply gives blaspheme a more specific definition, called a connotation. If the religous leaders had said that to Jesus when Jesus was eating fish, then they would have been attributing his power to eat fish to Satan, which probably would have been more silly than anything. But they didn't, so that's really not relevant. Read the passages again and see if you can see where I am coming from. You can't isolate a passage of scripture from its context and interpret it by itself, you can't do that with any piece of writing by anyone, context is a basic method of interpreting the intention of the author.

What you actually believe about the holy spirit is your business, between you and God as I have said. But if you don't believe in the Holy spirit, why are you so adament to blaspheme Him? Why do you even care? I don't see people trying to rid the world of the belief in Santa Claus, and if you equate Santa Clause and the Holy Spirit, why is it so important to you?

Hethsixoespa; To learn you must love discipline, it is stupid to hate correction.


JeremiahSmith
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hethsixoespa wrote:What you

hethsixoespa wrote:
What you actually believe about the holy spirit is your business, between you and God as I have said. But if you don't believe in the Holy spirit, why are you so adament to blaspheme Him? Why do you even care? I don't see people trying to rid the world of the belief in Santa Claus, and if you equate Santa Clause and the Holy Spirit, why is it so important to you?

The point is that, three times in the Bible, it is stated that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. By doing so, we accomplish two things:
1) We prove that we really don't believe the Bible or Christianity, when Christians tell us that "we really believe, you're just in denial". (Which is insulting, whether they intend it that way or not.) If we really did believe that blaspheming the Holy Spirit would condemn us irredeemably to hell, we would never do it. We demonstrate that we're actually not Christian by doing something no one who believed the tenets of Christianity would ever do.
2) We get a reason to not get preached at. If we're doomed to Hell unforgivably, there's no reason for Christians to proselytize. It would be useless, since no amount of preaching on your part or pleading on our part would bring about forgiveness. We'd be lost causes, all of us. Best to lament us in your own time, while preaching to those who still have a chance. This part doesn't work as well as I would like sometimes, though, because people always preach at us and it's pretty annoying.
In a nutshell, we're saying "We're serious about this atheism thing. Leave us alone!"

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Jeremiah Smith

Jeremiah Smith, hello-

It would seem to me that the best way not to get preached at would be to do nothing that would stimulate a response out of a christian. If that is what you want, then simply don't say anything at all or respond in anyway or disagree, then I am sure you will recieve the minimal amount of preaching.

I think that what is stimulating responses to your blaspheming is that at least I disgree with your interpretation of the specific passage as I have laid out. Best not to have an opinion at all in order to not be preached at.

Hethsixoespa; To learn you must love discipline, it is stupid to hate correction.


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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hethsixoespa wrote:Jeremiah

hethsixoespa wrote:
Jeremiah Smith, hello-

It would seem to me that the best way not to get preached at would be to do nothing that would stimulate a response out of a christian. If that is what you want, then simply don't say anything at all or respond in anyway or disagree, then I am sure you will recieve the minimal amount of preaching.

I think that what is stimulating responses to your blaspheming is that at least I disgree with your interpretation of the specific passage as I have laid out. Best not to have an opinion at all in order to not be preached at.

I know this is a response to Jeremiah Smith, but I want to respond because I agree with Jeremiah Smith. You say that we should just keep quiet in essence. We would if Christians would do the same and leave us alone. As in "You are an atheist? Well, God bless you." I am sick of the total lack of disrespect.


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marthaspatterhead

Martha-

What I meant was that if Jeremiah Smith does not want to be preached at, it would be better to not say anything which would stimulate such a response. However I do not believe that anyone should keep quiet and that being preached at is a natural consequence of disagreeing with most people about most things. It isn't necessarily a negative thing to encounter.

And if you want Christians to leave you alone, then live peacably in your belief as Christians do who want to be left alone. A website such as this does not communitcate a desire to be left alone, but rather to stimulate discussion, which is a good thing.

No offense intended.

Hethsixoespa; To learn you must love discipline, it is stupid to hate correction.


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hethsixoespa

hethsixoespa wrote:
Martha-

What I meant was that if Jeremiah Smith does not want to be preached at, it would be better to not say anything which would stimulate such a response. However I do not believe that anyone should keep quiet and that being preached at is a natural consequence of disagreeing with most people about most things. It isn't necessarily a negative thing to encounter.

And if you want Christians to leave you alone, then live peacably in your belief as Christians do who want to be left alone. A website such as this does not communitcate a desire to be left alone, but rather to stimulate discussion, which is a good thing.

No offense intended.

I believe this is what one would call the Thumper philosophy ..

"If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all"

Maybe he should have said something bad about deer hunting...

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


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hethsixoespa

hethsixoespa wrote:
Martha-

What I meant was that if Jeremiah Smith does not want to be preached at, it would be better to not say anything which would stimulate such a response

This philosophy would work better if it were not for the fact that the simple admission that one is an atheist will usually stimulate such a response, and the response is frequently just preaching. Yeah, we get theists who come around looking for a discussion, but other atheist forums I've been on tend to have a bunch of drive-by preachers who just post a bunch of Bible verses and arguments that have been rebutted a dozen times, and then never come back to the thread to follow up the discussion. We don't need that. No one wants that. A reasonable discussion is always fun, at least until it gets to sixty pages of one guy who just doesn't get it. But someone who has no inclination for discussion is just an annoying bother.

In any case, the second item on that list wasn't intended as seriously as the first, which is that denial of the Holy Spirit is a demonstration that we're not just faking it. That's probably the big reason we're all doing this: we're not just in denial, or going through a phase, we really do think it's all bollocks, and we'll prove it by putting it all on the line.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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JeremiahSmith wrote:

JeremiahSmith wrote:

This philosophy would work better if it were not for the fact that the simple admission that one is an atheist will usually stimulate such a response, and the response is frequently just preaching.

That is very true. Being on an atheist forum, I do come to expect and hope for discussion. However, a great many theists seem to just get angry and preach. This isn't the case for all, and I know a lot of theists are very non-confrontational.
However, if you are in a situation where someone asks you if you believe in their god and you merely say, "No," it can get really ugly. I've had many experiences where someone has stopped talking to me, or has been openly hostile after they found out I was an atheist. After THEY asked ME.
The "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy ONLY works if no one is asking you.
It always starts out really nice, like, "Oh, what church do you go to?"
And no matter how much I try to avoid the fact that I don't believe in gods, they always push it. Sample follow-up questions.
"Oh, you don't go to church? Well, what religion are you."
"Oh, yes, organized religion CAN twist god's word. But you believe in god right?"
And, since I'm not really "down" with lying, I usually reply, "No."
And that's where the badness starts.
Religion is divisive. I've had friends cut off all contact with me, I've had strangers scream at me, I've had people I barely know call me stupid and that they'll be laughing as I burn in hell. Because I don't believe in god. Not because I actually did anything to them.
Forums like this are really needed. I'm willing to bet that most of the people on this forum and who post the blasphemy videos don't feel comfortable enough to just walk up to a theist in real life and say, "What you believe is stupid and irrational." I know I don't. But theists have done that to me in real life. Saying we "invite preaching", is kind of silly, because I seldom do ANYTHING that would invite preaching IRL, and yet it happens constantly.