Animal Communication Systems

Asmoday
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Animal Communication Systems

Zhwazi wrote:
I don't know exactly how you'd define "complex".

I read a convincing piece that said that dolphins communicate based on frequency to form words instead of what we use, what we would call "voice" (ah vs ee is actually a change in the shape of the sound wave) and what the writer called the "time-domain". It would explain how dolphins have been known to communicate extremely complex ideas so quickly, because they can hear and create such a wide range of frequencies that they have much more "bandwidth" available. I'm not sure if it's the most complex but it's complex enough to be worth putting out there.

Really this is a bit off-topic though. Thread was kinda about sexuality. If you wanna keep talking about animal communication we could start another thread.

Well I agree, it is complex enough to put out there. What comes to mind rihgt away for me is, if some animals appear to have much more "bandwidth" as you put it, why can't humans? Surely humans cna preform as well as an animal can in communication?

I know when the brain operates in the 45hz frequency range, it can process a lot of information very effeciently.... effeciency is coherency, right?...

If this is the case, I think it is possible for human to human communication be as effecient as the dolphins, or whales. Which means we would have to increase our "bandwidth." In order to even come close to communicating as effeciently as dolphins do.

but why would we, whats the point?

Because first of all, its developing the brain, and second of all, its pretty much, uncharted territory.

I think the public school system should incorporate excercises that get the childrens brain operating at the 45hz frequency. Simply because dolphins are commnicating at a very effecient speed, I see no good reason why humans can not communicate jsut as effeciently. And for us, with thousands of years of archaic christian oppression, development of the brain has been lacking.
dont get me wrong, clearly there has been academic advancement throughout time.... but ahve we really been developing our brains to reach their full operating potential? We are information machines, the human brain should be able to opperate as effeciently as a dolphin.. c'mon, we can destroy the entire planet, a dolphin swims.... It has us beat.

all my nonsense aside. I honestly think that getting our brains tuned into the 45hz range will help us begin to start communicating more effeciently. Entire school systems should adopt this.

"Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside awakens."

-Carl G. Jung


Zhwazi
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Humans tend to tie up our

Humans tend to tie up our "processor time" as it might be called by thinking and using reason. We rely on reason more than our senses to get us what we want. Hence, our sensory ability suffers. We don't have the feeling ability of a cockroach, which I've heard can feel movements measured in refrence to the size of a molecule...we don't have the hearing of bats or dolphins, offering us a broad frequency spectrum and a brain with such excellent perception of hearing that we can echolocate (though I've heard that some people can do this with practice)...we don't have eyesight that can detect the slightest movement, or that can detect infrared or ultraviolet...we don't have a sense of smell that can detect a drop of a substance from half a mile away like a shark...we don't rely on our senses as much, so our southbridge is slow as fuck, but our northbridge and backside bus puts other animals to shame. But that means that while we can do amazing things once the information is in our heads, we have trouble getting it there quickly. This is why we "expand" and "compress" the data it with things like contractions, pictographs, drawings, et cetera, why we pick out only the important features of something and then fill in the missing data in our minds. That's why dolphins can have more bandwidth than humans for specific communication.

If you've ever zoomed in like crazy at a speech file's wave pattern, you can see the wave shapes and with practice, identify which pattern goes to which sound. But you notice, that in the sound files, the wave is repeated dozens or hundreds of times. Our brains are too focused on the inside to pick up what's going on outside the first time. Theoretically, without changing the language, you could cut out all the wave repetitions in a speech and leave only one wave for each sound, and all the necessary data of the speech would be retained. But if you played it back, you wouldn't understand it. We can understand something like 20 wave pattern changes per second before things start getting jumbled up in our head. At 400hz, and one wave per sound, that would be 400 wave pattern changes per second. All the information is present, but it's coming at us faster than our southbridge will move it. In order to keep it understandable, we have to be redundant with the sound. We have to repeat the sound wave pattern dozens of times at least, to ensure that it gets understood at all.

To compensate for the expansion necessary, we usually compress information also. I'm sure you've seen the paragraph where all the words were mixed up except for the first and last letters of each word, but it was still understandable? We compress information that we're reading by leaving out irrelevant information. If I write the word "READ" you don't need to look at each letter and determine what letter it is to figure out what I'm saying (unless you're very new to reading). You can just look at the center of the word and tell what word it is, ignoring some of the more specific features. You can look at a word like "INTELLIGENT" and you can see what word it is without taking in all the information necessary to be sure what word it is. When I look at the word intelligent I look at the first 5 letters, see how much longer the word is, and I move on to the next word assuming "intelligent" unless I read something inconsistent with that later on.

We could theoretically find the point at which "processor time" spent on reading the input data is at an equilibrium with what we spend refining the data and interpreting the data, and reach an optimum bandwidth like that. But each person is different...some people have better eyesight, better feeling, better hearing, or shitty every sense but extremely quick with their mind. So we kinda have to use the lowest common denominator on both the input and compression halves to ensure reliable reception, making the exercise of looking for an equilibrium pointless.

Humans are extremely adaptive though. Some people are capable of some kind of echolocation. Some people have learned to see as sharply underwater as they see above water. Blind people train their other senses to compensate for their lack of vision. I've seen someone that was so skillful at speedreading that he could read 100,000 words per minute. If we consider the average letter to be 8-bit and the average word to be five characters (4 letters plus space), that's 4,000,000 bits per second...or, 4 megabits per second. Verizon was offering 5 megabits per second fiber optic internet where I used to live. And keep in mind, a cable internet connection only has to tell a 1 from a 0, while he had to tell an A from a B from a C from a D. But it's only good for recorded information that can be displayed quickly. Nobody can write or type fast enough to keep up with him.

I don't know if I have any kind of coherent message to this post...I guess it's just a lot of neat stuff to think about.


Asmoday
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thanks for sharing all of

thumbs up

thanks for sharing all of that information. I find it very fascinating.

You stated which process' of the human brain are far superior then that in the animal kingdom, and which brain process's in the animal kingdom are far superior to that of the humans, explaining why dolphins have more bandwidth then humans for specific communication. Also that you have heard some humans can echolocate with practice. As well mentioning how blind humans compensate thier loss in other brain process's, etc....

I think it is quite obvious that the development of the brain is being overlooked in the school system. We aren't really taught how to develop our brain in order for it to function for specific purposes. We are taught how to memorize, and then told to apply what we memorized, usually by filling in the blanks...... To me, the brain can do far more, if its pushed, if its developed, however, it seems to me the brain has to settle for memorization skills, which only contributes to a single process of the brain??? instead of a while range of brain processes.......

I know you are not saying it isn't possible for the human brain to develop other aspects of our sensitivity that are lacking without loosing the parts which are superior.... because like you said with practice, it is possible to develop those other lacking processes of our brain.... without loosing the aspects of our brain that are far superior in regards to the animal kingdom.....

I think the educational system should ensure that all students of all ages know how to develop their brains. Especially the processes of the brain that allow us to become extremely sensitive, and aware of all that is around us... Wont that allow us to start processing information quickly and effeciently? Again, isn't this possible for our brains to acomplish? I think it should be possible.. Right now it simply isn't the case, but thats due to our current conditioning which in my opinion lacks in the brain development area.....

also, I think since day one in teh education system, students should learn exactly what their body needs, and why they need it.
and what type of diets cause certain types of conditions. ....fuck corporations and the garbage they are selling us...The educational system should inform the students, from development of the brain, to what your body needs, and the affects of what its given. so conscious informed choices can be made,...........

so basically all I want to know is.... Do you think the human brain is limited to the current superior/non superior processes it currently has, or is it possible that all it's non superior processes across the board can be developed into a far superior function then we are currently operating at?

What I want to know is, what mental conditioning/excercises affect which processes of the brain/minds ability.... cause and effect.

enlightenment is found through action, not by arm chair pontificators.....
?

Heart Eyes

"Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside awakens."

-Carl G. Jung