Born-again?

Anonymous
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Born-again?

I was just wondering what exactly this means. Born-again christian as opposed to a born once christian? Wouldn't all christians be considered born-again? Is their some kind of heirarchy created when one becomes born-again? ex. Two christians sitting and discussing about the beauty of Jesus. One might say to the other that he is way closer to HIM because he is born-again. Does he try to convert the christian that is not born-again? Is this merely an attempt to seperate within the church. (BTW, I met a man the other day that told me he used to be born-again but isn't into that anymore but still believes in GOD). Or maybe it's like a promotion?


MattShizzle
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It's just another silly term

It's just another silly term Christians use.


Nick
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Yes, I believe that all

Yes, I believe that all Christians are supposed to be Born-Again. The Bible says that you must be born again to get into heaven, although I don't know the exact passage... can someone clarify this for me?

Wilson: "We were afraid that if you found out you solved a case with absolutely no medical evidence you'd think you were God." House: "God doesn't limp."


AntiFaith
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John and ephesians and I

John and ephesians and I forget where else.

You have to be born again in order to be a "True Christian" A real connection to God must be experienced in addition to baptism.

You can be born again and again and again in an insane cycle of self hatred. If ya sin ya don't really believe or haven't really been given grace by God. Christians and pastors say different things depending on the church.

Baptist are retards and some baptists are even more retarded than others. I think it causes real brain damage.


Nick
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Yeah, it's confusing... but

Yeah, it's confusing... but then again, what part of religion does make sense? Puzzled


AntiFaith
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None. I am having trouble

None.

I am having trouble getting used to atheism still sometimes, but have never told anyone. I can see that God can't make sense. Especially with the problem of evil.

Even though I kind of flip flop some times I will always feel that the world would be better off as atheist, whether or not there really is a God. People ignore problems. Take Freedom for granted. Take the envirionment for granted. Why? Probably because we are banking on heaven, or God fixing it all. Venturing out into our solar system? Forget it. Too many non-issues tied around our necks by theists.

I am starting to think that you can't fight bullshit with your own personal irrational bullshit.

Atheism. The rational choice. Too bad I still get the ache. Religion causes perment brain damage.


Nick
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If there is a God, he would

If there is a God, he would LOVE atheists.

Atheists are good people who are good just for the sake of being good.

Atheists use reason and logic to understand the world, and are never suckered into faith like weak fools.

If there's a God, he gave us our minds for a reason: To use them. NO GOD would EVER hold "faith" high. No God would think blind stupidity is a virtue. I am not worried at all.

I'm very sure there is no God, and in the very very VERY unlikely case that there is, he would never punish good, rational people just because they refused to be idiots. We're in the RIGHT, no matter if there is a God or not. Don't fret.

Wilson: "We were afraid that if you found out you solved a case with absolutely no medical evidence you'd think you were God." House: "God doesn't limp."


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Yes. I think that is true.

Yes. I think that is true. If we are wrong about Gods then the only thing certain about God and its plan is what it is to be human. A natural understanding of our design and a continual study of creation as it unfolds.

It is weird. I think there is no God but sometimes I feel that there is. It is not rational. If I flake out again at least people will know that some of us will put people before our superstion. Because most likely theism is not true.


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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Today I installed a starter

Today I installed a starter on my car and before I started it, I thought please GOD I hope this works.hahaha I am perty darn sure there's no invisible Jolly Green Giant in the sky but I still think like that. I'm also pretty sure it's because I was raised in a very xtian household.


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Hehe. Yea. I sometimes see

Hehe. Yea.

I sometimes see Christians giving atheists a ribbing over their use of "Good heavens" "Good God" or "For the love of God"

You are right. These are old habits.


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i got my cellphone taken

i got my cellphone taken away for two weeks by saying "Jesus Christ!"... well, first of all, so frickin what if i said the name. Secondly, what the hell did the cell phone have to do with it?!?! what kind of punishment is that?!?! hahahaha


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Greg wrote:i got my

Greg wrote:
i got my cellphone taken away for two weeks by saying "Jesus Christ!"... well, first of all, so frickin what if i said the name. Secondly, what the hell did the cell phone have to do with it?!?! what kind of punishment is that?!?! hahahaha

Geez, I hope your parents do not know you are an atheist.

"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank."-Woody Allen

"Atheism is life affirming in a way religion can never be."-Richard Dawkins


darth_josh
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John 3:3 Jesus answered and

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Those are very important verses because they actually determine denomination.
If you are baptized in the name of jesus then you might not be saved according to your hardline pentecostals, apostolics, wesleyans, and some plain ole christian churches.
The catholics cover it all with the trinity.
Baptists vary greatly in their spirit terminology.

It is equivalent to shaving yourself if you're a muslim.

The idea is that one cannot be unclean with the filth of the earthly sin in the presence of god when they die. You are baptized because of the 'born of water' part. At birth you are sinless, so when you emerge from the water cleansed of your sins then you are sinless once more and the preacher and congregation tell you to 'go and sin no more.' Water in the womb and water at re-birth.

One more way to indoctrinate the stupid. See 'Oh Brother Where Art Thou' and wait until the congregation moves into the water. Delmar practically breaks his friggin' neck to get the salvation and Pete follows suit. I have seen that look upon the faces of the stupid guilty masses in a church and let me tell you, it's very scary when you are not one of them crawling to the baptismal font to be dunked.

After baptism, you need only repent to christ for your wrongs. Some must do it on an hourly basis in order to forgive their humanity. Stare at a chick, sorry jesus. Stare at a new car, sorry jesus. They spend their entire lives regretting their human emotions and motivations that they punish themselves within when they excel or fail. The absolute ridiculousness is that they derive pleasure from feeling bad and knowing in their 'hearts' that they are forgiven every time.

Interesting to note that, more often than not, you can be re-born even if you have blasphemed the holy spirit. It's like a do-over.

I know someone that took it to a new level a few years ago and has declared that she is allowed to FORGET past transgressions because of her re-birth citing that she knew nothing at birth and became as a child in the presence of jesus. he gave her not only redemption but regression.
Powerful stuff. Irrational stuff. Nevertheless, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take away from someone. I struggle all of the time with trying to find replacement 'comfort' for people when they finally get to that point of rational thought where they realize that it's all a lie.

I sincerely apologize for the run-ons and any spelling errors.. I am getting ready to go to sleep to dream of a world without theism. There is no need to repent for sins, only a need to make reparations to the sinned against.
Umm. "What' s a sin?"
"Well, I don't know."
"Why do people worry about it so?"
"Their other worries overwhelm them."
"Oh. Poor them."

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MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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Awesome post. That clears up

Awesome post. That clears up a lot of my misunderstanding. I still wonder if they act like they are better those who have been born-again than those who have not. LIke the b.a. can act a bit more smug.

darth_josh wrote:
it's very scary when you are not one of them crawling to the baptismal font to be dunked.

When I was 9, my sister (who was 7) and I had an appointment to be baptised. It was my turn first, and I was scared. I told my sister that I didn't trust the preacher and was afraid he wouldn't bring me out of the water. I felt evil but I didn't want to die either. I ran outside and hid by a hedge. No one noticed, I guess, so in a little while I went back inside just in time to see my sister being pulled out of the water. She came back to me after a while and said it was fun. I could of still done it but still didn't think that the preacher would bring me back out. So I never did it even when I was older and knew they couldn't drown me. I just thought it's a funny story because I was scared TO get baptised.


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elitism of the spirit

I agree with this, darth_josh wrote an excellent post. I, too, grew up in a christian household, went to church a couple times a week, attended youth group, got baptized when I was 10 after attending a class to truly know what it was all about. Having grown up in a baptist church and migrated to a southern baptist denom church, it seemed logical to keep going into the realm of extreme fundamentalism and mid-acts dispensationalism of C.F. Baker. If anybody wants to see an excellent attempt to use reason to figure out the bible, look up his stuff. It's all interpretive of course, but pretty interesting nonetheless.

Anyway, piggy-backing off darth's point of being scary not running up to get baptized with the rest of the lost souls, there's a point here about the elitism that this type of thinking in christian (though it is true in all paradigms that hold to absolutism) groups breeds. Being "born again" seems to point back to that moment of birth in which we became no longer beholden completely to our mother and started life as a separate organism. The thinking is that only in denying all that has come before and, essentially, our humanity, are we capable of being more and hence being "born again" into a new life. We cannot enter into heaven except we be born again, as if to point to perfection being capable only if the shackles of this material reality are cast aside in our spiritual union with the almighty.

It is little wonder that religion has often been used to justify atrocities and that fundamentalist christianity is being used to supplement the fascism that the republican party is promoting. When one begins to believe themselves separate from humanity and hence becomes in-human, it is not a difficult step to take then to believe any doctrine, no matter how absurd. In fact, it would almost seem self-fulfilling that with every thign believed that the rest of "fallen" humanity doesn't, it solidifies to them their rightness with god.

Elitism and persecution go hand in hand to produce a truly terrifying mentality. For example, there is a new video game coming out from a christian group about the time after the rapture. The premise is that those who are left behind and then believe will have to battle satan's hordes, i.e. the rest of humanity. The game shows believers slaughtering civilians in the streets and praying for healing. Here's the future.

Every one of your relationships to man and to nature must be a definite expression of your real, individual life corresponding to the object of your will. -Erich Fromm


darth_josh
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Another chapter at the root

Another chapter at the root of the problem is Matthew 18
The parables of the child, the lost sheep, and the debtor.
The 'become as little children' part opens the door of forgetfulness.
"Pluck out thine eye'
'Cut off thy hand'
One lost sheep found is greater than 99 never lost.
This is also the chapter that 'whatever is truth on earth is truth in heaven' comes from. 18:18 which is by far the best worded disclaimer in human history.

In my opinion, this entire chapter if read by the skeptical eye holds the keys to understanding the christian conspiracy since the time of its inception by the Essenes and Gnostics that Rook is uncovering.
First read it with an open mind. Then write down what you feel.
Next read it with the intent to figure out the motivations of the character known as jesus. Then write down how you feel about him. As a self-proclaimed skeptic, I see an evil, manipulative man willing to use whatever means necessary(regardless of ethics) to promote an agenda.

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Randalllord
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There are eight things Jesus

There are eight things Jesus said you had to do to have eternal life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r-kIBARMpM

Being born again was just one of these eight.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca


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Being born of the spirit is

Being born of the spirit is frequently interpreted as rolling around on the floor like a insane perosn and/or talking in tonges. This phenomia is discribed in Acts 2:1-12. I find these passages interesing in that people nowdays don't do what is discribed in the Bible. Today a person rambles in what sounds a little like a foreign language, then another person intreprets it. This is not what happened in the above passages. In the Bible, the people heard others people speaking in their native tounge. No interpretation was necessary. Also in the Bible, the phenomia was supposedly verified by people not of the faith. There are no noises from the sky, no flames jumping around. Why doesn't this happen today?

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca


darth_josh
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I love that video

I love that video presentation. I've been to godisimaginary.com.
Good stuff.

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MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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Yeah, it's the same guy who

Yeah, it's the same guy who proves prayer doesn't work. Great stuff I wish I could send it to my my mother-in-law. Hmmm....maybe, I will....