Yeah, I'm trying to find one perfect question that just makes the whole idea of god stupid with a little bit of sarcasm.

But if you think of a really good one, PM me with it since there are liberty kids on this forum that have tracked down my screenname and know I'm coming to the event. They might read the question and go tell Caner before hand. :-\

Hey, I live in Lynchburg -- I'll try to make it and bring a handful of Atheist friends. Do you know where in CVCC it's being hosted?

WTF?

DONT LEAVE US HANGING! How did it go? 

Brian37 wrote:

As an aside, I find it funny for a Liberty student to ask, "Why does god allow suffering". That is 101 stuff even for a theist. Some longtime online atheists consider people who ask those types of questions "chewtoys".(J/K)

 

Brian, the man that asked the "chewtoy" question was middle-aged and agreeable it was sophmoric. I think he was a "plant". 

shelleymtjoy wrote:

I am not specifically interested in debating Cancer. However, as I mentioned to null over PMs, if there is a event in Lynchburg I could probably come but would need at least two weeks notice.

I just remembered. This was part of the problem. Atheists weren't willing to ask questions. As you will see in the video, Caner begged and begged. For these things to work we need atheists to ask questions, otherwise it will seem like the Liberty crowd is pitching softballs, which didn't happen. I hope the atheists who were with us have a little more faith that we aren't going to attack you. But seriously, we need you guys to be more vocal in these forums.

I am putting the video on my computer as we speak, but i'm only 8 minutes in and it's almost 2GB.

Hello Theist, Well, I must say that Mr. Caner does seem to have more integrity than most run-o'-the-mill evangelists/fundamentalists. Please let him know that I, for one, do recognize and respect his slightly more enlightened/progressive perspective. It must take some degree of courage to break, in any way, with the "party-line" at LU. The fact that Mr. Caner is willing, even marginally, to look into the mirror, and honestly see how the rest of humanity sees the radical X-ian right in the U.S. reveals some self-awareness. It's healthy,and a step in the right direction. I'll write more about the event, this afternoon, perhaps. Like Medi, I'm quite busy as well. I don't believe I'm interested in future events of this sort. I'm someone who does not see dialogue/interaction as productive, generally. I really only came to the event by invitation from one of my new friends on this forum. If the RRS is all about direct engagement with the opposition, then I doubt I'll be a very active participant. I attended the Caner event with the express intent of connecting with fellow nontheists, like Medieval Guy, and PopeofHeresy. It was great to make new friends! Theist, on a different subject...I am an active member in Americans United for Separation of Church and State. If you, your friends, or Mr. Caner are interested in protecting religious liberty from intrusion by the State/Gov't., then please check out the website: AU.org. If I could send Mr. Caner one message, it would be that the issue of Church/State separation IS "common ground" that we can share. It's the "key" to dialogue...at least with me. I'm only interested in interaction with those who are willing to stand strong in maintaining a Wall of Separation. The alternative is Theocracy...and I will never bow to a "X-ian Taliban". Hillcat

Thanks Triften. Yes, I will look for this introductions area now. I'm thrilled to find an on-line community with whom I share a "consciousness of kind". What's more, I've started making local nontheist friends. Thanks for helping bear the torch of Freedom.

Hillcat

Mr./Ms. Heyeverybody:

A) We're NOT the problem

B) You're making the assumption that we have questions for Mr. Caner.

C) You're making the assumption that we're interested in dialogue.

D) You're assuming that Mr. Caner has "answers".

E) You're suggesting that we want to be used by Mr. Caner, as a tool to help him sharpen his claws, (gain success in debating nontheists).

F) You're assuming we believe you when you say "softball" questions weren't planted.

G) You're assuming our participation in future "forums".

H) You're assuming we weren't attacked at the CVCC event. Imagine if you were a little bluebird, invited to a gathering of say...120 wolves in sheep's clothing. Then, the leader of the wolves "begs"..."Sing little bluebird! Sing!". I've never been to any public gathering where I felt more segregated, marginalized, and targeted. Luckily, I was able to meet other bluebirds.

I'm still shocked by the comments made to me by one of the LU Government students as I was leaving. It made me wonder whether there is any hope at all for this beautiful National experiment, called Democracy.

Hi Shelleymtjoy,

Nulles speaks very highly of you. I'm pleased to make your acquaintance.

I haven't seen the replay of the CVCC/Caner event, but now that I have a few minutes, I'll give you my impressions:

I originally thought that I'd be attending a X-ian-only event, since, as I recall, the posted title for the event was something like "One question you'd like to ask an imaginary diety". As I mentioned earlier, I was there to connect with other nontheists, and to observe, (since I take classes at CVCC which is only a stone's throw away from the LU campus). It was only after I got to the College, that I learned the event was designed specifically to engage RRS members, and other freethinkers. I arrived, met up with Nulles, and then Medi, (who are both brilliant, courageous champions for Truth and Freedom of Conscience, by the way). Meanwhile, about 100+ LU students, (I suppose), were streaming in to the room. An LU student organizer greeted us, specifically, making certain we were clearly identified. Several other participants made conspicuous overtures of friendliness, making me feel even more "targeted". Medi politely asked one organizer if he could set up his camera. The crowd ate pizza, (I think), until Mr. Caner approached the podium. We were repeatedly asked to partake of the snack table, & we repeatedly declined.

Mr. Caner spoke at length about his background. He said that he was raised in one of the "Abrahamic" faiths, of mid-eastern origin, and then converted to yet another, in college. He mentioned that he has had experience in interaction with RRS folk in the past.

To his credit:

1)Mr. Caner is highly embarrassed by Televangelists

2)He seems to recognize the concept of "Post-X-ianity"

3)Says he hates "religion", and specifically the hypocritical image that X-ians have attained, worldwide

4) Says he dislikes phoneys, and appreciates "authenticity" in folks

5) Apparently seemed to say that he supports separation of church and state, and that whenever they intermingle, the church usually becomes a "whore" for the state

6) Admits that most ALL politicians on the LU campus have been Republican

7) Admits that in many ways, Falwell was the founder of the effort to tear down the Wall of Separation

8)Admits that faith should never be legislated

9)Says he believes that mutual respect is a worthy goal

10)Recognizes the wisdom of Thomas Paine

11) Suggests that LU may be changing, and may look quite different in 5 years

The rest of the presentation was the same bible-babble that makes one's eyes glaze over. The requisite references to texts, written by bronze-age man, centuries prior to the discovery that the Earth is round, were trotted out like a tired old workhorse.

The "heaviest" impression I got from the event was in looking around the room. Here I was, in a sea of young, potentially brilliant minds. But all I saw was darkness. They were like X-ian-rock zombies, held in an oily trance by some mythical leader from Narnia. It makes me weep for the future of our species...and our planet. I so wanted to say..."It's okay. You don't have to behave like a herd animal. We can think for ourselves now. Let's try standing upright, like homo sapiens."

After the event, a young woman came up and introduced herself to me. She said, "I heard your question regarding Separation of Church and State. I'm a Government student at LU, and in College, I've learned that Separation of Church and State was really not very important to our founding fathers. Mr. Caner mentioned Thomas Paine, but he wasn't a founder. You don't really need to be concerned with the Separation issue."

I tried to assure her that I disagreed with her perception of history; that I am less interested in what our "founders" intended, than in what we create as a society going forward; and that I've basically dedicated my life to maintaining a strong Wall of Separation. Sadly she wasn't interested in "hearing". She was clearly only concerned with "telling".

Little did I know how prescient my question for Mr. Caner was. As I got home that evening, I learned that my civic group...Americans United for Separation of Church and State, (AU.org), has asked the IRS to investigate Falwell's endorsement of Huckabee. That's why I love the AU. They DO the work! If not for the AU, who knows what sort of mischief would be occurring. They go straight to the source of unlawful behavior and LITIGATE. Then...they WIN!

Hillcat

Perhaps the most chilling, errant, and manipulative comment that Mr. Caner made was when he TOLD the audience that "everyone prays to something". I so disagree. This proclamation reminds me of my 7th grade Social Studies teacher, when she told us that "spirituality" was a basic human need like food, clothing, and shelter. It's simply a myth...part of a hidden curriculum designed to keep the rich and powerful clergy in positions of high status. I'm so glad to live a factual, fulfilling, life of happiness, peace, and hope...withOUT the clutter of superstition.

I haven't checked this thread recently. I'll just address a few of the pertinent points. . .

1. Hillcat, while I respect your opinions, I think you misread our hospitality. Most of the people who approached you guys before the discussion were actually the event's planners. I'm sorry if you felt targeted, but we were only trying to show hospitality. I am glad you asked questions. The point of the event was to have intellectual discussion; I'm sorry if you were looking for something else.

2. I do not know what that "LU Government student" meant by her statement. I agree with you that the Church and State should be separate entities; however, you don't expect us to agree on everything do you? Would you say that my Christian values should not affect my political beliefs?

3. I believe Caner's argument was that the status quo believes in something. He wanted to know why you don't. Also, what if a Christian said, "I'm so glad to live a factual, fulfilling, life of happiness, peace, and hope...withOUT the clutter of superstition?" What would be your response?

Ok guys, so I have some bad news. The recording cuts off in the middle of him talking, but i do know that Nullus recorded the audio on his own device. I'm not sure if that one can upload to the internet. But the xtian kids there did say that Caner also had someone recording the event, so i'm going to go looking for it.

I happened to have the window open for this thread when the data was lost. Here's the missing posts: