Why are we here?

Cpt_pineapple
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Why are we here?

I'm curious as to how an atheist answers this question why are we here?

 

That is what is the purpose of life to an atheist? 


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Why are we here? We are

Why are we here?

We are here because we speciated from the same primate that gave us chimps, and our imaginative minds proved useful in our survival.

What is the purpose of life to an atheist?

The same as every organism on this planet. Live, reproduce (or not) and die. What you do with that time in which your brain and organs function is up to you. If you want to waste it building buildings for a supernatural being to worship him in, then that's your business. I'm going to spend my time enjoying myself. 

YOU shut the fuck up! WE'LL save America!


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Icebergin wrote: Why are

Icebergin wrote:

Why are we here?

We are here because we speciated from the same primate that gave us chimps, and our imaginative minds proved useful in our survival.

What is the purpose of life to an atheist?

The same as every organism on this planet. Live, reproduce (or not) and die. What you do with that time in which your brain and organs function is up to you. If you want to waste it building buildings for a supernatural being to worship him in, then that's your business. I'm going to spend my time enjoying myself.

 

That's HOW we got here not why. 


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It is also the reason why.

It is also the reason why.


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No, capt.  You're getting

No, capt.  You're getting your questions crossed.  My existence was caused by the joining of an egg and sperm in sexual reproduction.  That is why I am here.

Your question is full of presumptions.  First, you presume that there is a purpose other than reproduction and survival.  (In fact, to say that reproduction or survival is a purpose is prescriptive if you look at it from the right angle.  More properly, it's not even a purpose except on an individual level.  The tendency for organisms with survival instincts to survive just exists.)

Second, you presume that there was intelligence behind existence.  There's no evidence for that presumption.  If there was no intelligence, then there is no purpose of the sort you're looking for, so the question, "Why are we here?" is pretty much meaningless.

Here's a question for you.  What is so difficult to understand if life is a natural occurrence, and we are really just very smart animals who live and die like any other living thing?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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I'm here to eat more

I'm here to eat more Doritos.

But seriously...I have a question: Why does anyone think there should be an answer to the question "Why are we here?"


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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Here's a question for you. What is so difficult to understand if life is a natural occurrence, and we are really just very smart animals who live and die like any other living thing?

 

 

I feel it gives no purpose. So the purpose of life is to die? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

 


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Why does there have to be a

Why does there have to be a devine purpose?

Where I am concerened the purpose of my life is mine and mine alone, no ultimate purpose.


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Eat, Drink and be Merry!!

Eat, Drink and be Merry!!

 

Each individuals purpose in their own life is up to them and completely subjective. There are multiple reasons I can give to live life. Just choose one and enjoy yourself.

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


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BGH wrote: Why does there

BGH wrote:

Why does there have to be a devine purpose?

 

Because it make my feel all tingly inside! 


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But that's just it, Capt.

But that's just it, Capt. Presup... um... Pineapple! Why doesn't it make sense?

Do you have a dog? Have you ever thought to yourself, "Why doesn't my dog just stop eating so it can die?" Why not? The dog has no purpose, unless you happen to believe there are dogs in heaven. Dogs try to stay alive, try to mate, and have a damn fine time chasing sticks if you're kind enough to throw them.

You're confusing "PURPOSE" with "purpose." In other words, you're saying that if there's no grand scheme in which humans are integrally involved with some kind of deity, then life loses its meaning. As a matter of fact, I have as a purpose to build a deck on the back of my house. I think it will make summers more enjoyable. I'm hoping to visit China soon because it will broaden my knowledge, and will be a fun and exciting experience that I can remember for the rest of my life. In a while, I'm going to ride my bicycle down to a restaurant and have some pork barbecue. I love pork barbecue. Why would I enjoy my life any more if something created the universe 14 billion years ago?

What, exactly, bothers you about the notion that you get to live your life the best way you see fit, and then you'll die, and exist no more?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Icebergin wrote:

Why are we here?

We are here because we speciated from the same primate that gave us chimps, and our imaginative minds proved useful in our survival.

What is the purpose of life to an atheist?

The same as every organism on this planet. Live, reproduce (or not) and die. What you do with that time in which your brain and organs function is up to you. If you want to waste it building buildings for a supernatural being to worship him in, then that's your business. I'm going to spend my time enjoying myself.

 

That's HOW we got here not why.

 

We are here because our ancestors possessed phenotypes that were well adapted to the enviornment.  We are here for the same reason that all living organisims are here.  Polar bears are here because their phenotypes are well suited for their enviornment, and hence, are able to pass on their genetic material.  The same is true for humans.

The theist assumes that their must be a "why" over and above a "how."  They are one and the same.  For inquires into why the universe exists, consult modern cosmology.  As Stephen Hawking said in a lecture I heard:  "we are getting very close to answering the question:  Why are we hear?"  There is much we do not know yet, but more will be known with more inquiry.

Why do theists think that ignorance is somehow a point against the atheist?  What is so bad about saying the three little worlds:  I don't know? 

"In the high school halls, in the shopping malls, conform or be cast out" ~ Rush, from Subdivisions


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: BGH

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:

Why does there have to be a devine purpose?

 

Because it make my feel all tingly inside!

That doesn't answer the question.  It is a non-answer.  Are you honestly proposing that there must be a divine purpose, in virtue of your feelings?

Do you honestly believe this?  Or are you wasting all of our time by not giving us serious answers? 

"In the high school halls, in the shopping malls, conform or be cast out" ~ Rush, from Subdivisions


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Icebergin wrote:

Icebergin wrote:

Why are we here?

We are here because we speciated from the same primate that gave us chimps, and our imaginative minds proved useful in our survival.

Isn't that more of an answer to how we are here as opposed to why we are here?

edit: Well then, that was already brought up. My bad. I still am not getting how it's "why" we are here. 

I take pride in being a newb. I'm not all experienced and boring like the normies.


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Chaoslord2004

Chaoslord2004 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Icebergin wrote:

Why are we here?

We are here because we speciated from the same primate that gave us chimps, and our imaginative minds proved useful in our survival.

What is the purpose of life to an atheist?

The same as every organism on this planet. Live, reproduce (or not) and die. What you do with that time in which your brain and organs function is up to you. If you want to waste it building buildings for a supernatural being to worship him in, then that's your business. I'm going to spend my time enjoying myself.

 

That's HOW we got here not why.

 

We are here because our ancestors possessed phenotypes that were well adapted to the enviornment. We are here for the same reason that all living organisims are here. Polar bears are here because their phenotypes are well suited for their enviornment, and hence, are able to pass on their genetic material. The same is true for humans.

The theist assumes that their must be a "why" over and above a "how." They are one and the same. For inquires into why the universe exists, consult modern cosmology. As Stephen Hawking said in a lecture I heard: "we are getting very close to answering the question: Why are we hear?" There is much we do not know yet, but more will be known with more inquiry.

Why do theists think that ignorance is somehow a point against the atheist? What is so bad about saying the three little worlds: I don't know?

 

I like to think of it this way. I went to the store. HOW did I get there? I drove. WHY did I go there? To get milk. To me, 'how' and 'why' are two different questions.

 

As for ignorance,  I wouldn't put "God did it" on my exams. I wouldn't put "I don't know" either. I would try to fill it in to the best of my knowledge. But I would say to myself  'I'm not sure'. As in I don't know the actual answer.

 

[edited for clarity] 


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Here's a question for you. What is so difficult to understand if life is a natural occurrence, and we are really just very smart animals who live and die like any other living thing?

 

 

I feel it gives no purpose. So the purpose of life is to die? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

What doesn't make sense to me, is how you can value THIS life, given that when you die you believe you will go to a place that is infinitely better.  Think about this:  This is the one shot we have...given this, we should enjoy the brief time we exist.  For the theist, this isn't the only shot...this is a more highway that leads to something better.

Imagine you have a piece of cake.  You know, this is the last piece of cake you will ever eat.  You will enjoy it all the more, right?  now imagine you have a piece of cake, but know that once you eat this piece of cake, you will be given one that tastes infinitely better.  In which case will you appreciate more? 

"In the high school halls, in the shopping malls, conform or be cast out" ~ Rush, from Subdivisions


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Chaoslord2004

Chaoslord2004 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:

Why does there have to be a devine purpose?

 

Because it make my feel all tingly inside!

That doesn't answer the question. It is a non-answer. Are you honestly proposing that there must be a divine purpose, in virtue of your feelings?

Do you honestly believe this? Or are you wasting all of our time by not giving us serious answers?

 

I don't know about the divine purpose part, but "in virtue of [one's] feelings" can, at times, seem like a better standard to judge ultimate reality by than what some would term "reason".

(I put reason in quotations because feelings may indeed be the ultimate reason, as opposed to what some would term "reason". Metaphysics is fun.)

I take pride in being a newb. I'm not all experienced and boring like the normies.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: I like

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I like to think of it this way. I went to the store. HOW did I get there? I drove. WHY did I go there? To get milk. To me, 'how' and 'why' are two different questions.

In this case, the "why" assumes a sentient mind.  Since we naturalists believe life, and ultimately, the universe came into being an evolved in accordance with natural laws and processes, a "why" question in this case, doesn't apply.  There's no Purpose" behind the universe; there is just natural laws, processes and the universe, period.   

"In the high school halls, in the shopping malls, conform or be cast out" ~ Rush, from Subdivisions


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Ghost of Amityville

Ghost of Amityville wrote:
Chaoslord2004 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:

Why does there have to be a devine purpose?

 

Because it make my feel all tingly inside!

That doesn't answer the question. It is a non-answer. Are you honestly proposing that there must be a divine purpose, in virtue of your feelings?

Do you honestly believe this? Or are you wasting all of our time by not giving us serious answers?

 

I don't know about the divine purpose part, but "in virtue of [one's] feelings" can, at times, seem like a better standard to judge ultimate reality by than what some would term "reason".

(I put reason in quotations because feelings may indeed be the ultimate reason, as opposed to what some would term "reason". Metaphysicas is fun.)

What in the world are you talking about? 

"In the high school halls, in the shopping malls, conform or be cast out" ~ Rush, from Subdivisions


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Chaoslord2004

Chaoslord2004 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:

Why does there have to be a devine purpose?

 

Because it make my feel all tingly inside!

That doesn't answer the question. It is a non-answer. Are you honestly proposing that there must be a divine purpose, in virtue of your feelings?

Do you honestly believe this? Or are you wasting all of our time by not giving us serious answers?

 

I would like to think that life has a purpose that's all. It doesn't make it true, but I feel better thinking that. 

 

Quote:

What doesn't make sense to me, is how you can value THIS life, given that when you die you believe you will go to a place that is infinitely better.  Think about this:  This is the one shot we have...given this, we should enjoy the brief time we exist.  For the theist, this isn't the only shot...this is a more highway that leads to something better.

Imagine you have a piece of cake.  You know, this is the last piece of cake you will ever eat.  You will enjoy it all the more, right?  now imagine you have a piece of cake, but know that once you eat this piece of cake, you will be given one that tastes infinitely better.  In which case will you appreciate more?

Just because it may not be our only one, doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy it to the fullest. Ever heard the phrase: It's not the destination that's fun, it's the journey getting there (Or something like that).

 

Quote:

 In this case, the "why" assumes a sentient mind.  Since we naturalists believe life, and ultimately, the universe came into being an evolved in accordance with natural laws and processes, a "why" question in this case, doesn't apply.  There's no Purpose" behind the universe; there is just natural laws, processes and the universe, period.  

 

 

That's your philosophy of life. Other people have theirs.


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Chaoslord2004 wrote: Ghost

Chaoslord2004 wrote:
Ghost of Amityville wrote:
Chaoslord2004 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:

Why does there have to be a devine purpose?

 

Because it make my feel all tingly inside!

That doesn't answer the question. It is a non-answer. Are you honestly proposing that there must be a divine purpose, in virtue of your feelings?

Do you honestly believe this? Or are you wasting all of our time by not giving us serious answers?

 

I don't know about the divine purpose part, but "in virtue of [one's] feelings" can, at times, seem like a better standard to judge ultimate reality by than what some would term "reason".

(I put reason in quotations because feelings may indeed be the ultimate reason, as opposed to what some would term "reason". Metaphysicas is fun.)

What in the world are you talking about?

Something that causes you confusion, apparently. 

I take pride in being a newb. I'm not all experienced and boring like the normies.


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Chaoslord2004 wrote: What

Chaoslord2004 wrote:

What in the world are you talking about?

Ghost of Amityville wrote:

Something that causes you confusion, apparently.

 

Best. Answer Ever. Laughing


Hambydammit
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Quote: That's your

Quote:
That's your philosophy of life. Other people have theirs.

True, but the rationalist philosophy is based on evidence. The idea that there is a sentient being who has a reason for creating the universe is unsupported. Every idea has a "right to exist" but some ideas are more credible than others. Are we taking a poll, here?

I don't like to see you ducking away from this issue, pineapple. You seem like an ok dude, and I don't like to see you run away and hide in humor or fluffy "I'm ok, you're ok" rhetoric.

This is a very serious topic. Clearly believing something because it feels good to believe is a poor reason at best, and possibly very detrimental at worst.

Can we get back to why you don't think life would be meaningful if it were simply about living?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Ghost

Ghost Wrote:

Quote:
Something that causes you confusion, apparently.

For the record, I don't have any idea what you were talking about either.  Please answer Chaoslord's question, or stop spamming with posts that don't contribute to the thread.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit wrote:   Can

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Can we get back to why you don't think life would be meaningful if it were simply about living?

 

What I said is that it doesn't make sense to ME. What I am asking is why you believe that. So I can better understand why you think life is simply about living.

For my comment about life is meaninful, I take it with a grain of salt since I don't know if we do have a purpose. This is the main reason I have humor on the boards, is that while I want to think the I get another life, it doesn't make it so, so I try to enjoy life and make sure others are enjoying theirs. Just incase I'm wrong.

 

As for "I'm okay you're okay" rhetoric, it's a matter of opinion. Let me explain. The Big Bang happened. HOW it happened is a matter of science. WHY it happend is a matter of philosophy. You think it just happend because it did. I think there's a purpose. No one knows for sure. 

 

I'm just asking you questions, not because I want to change your views, but because I want to understand them. 


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Every atheist knows we're

Every atheist knows we're being cultivated as a low cost feed for the inhabitants of labor planet XVM-739 as they construct the milky way bordello and souvenir shop for their genetic and moral superiors, the Greater Andromeda Smaptians.


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After coming to the

After coming to the understanding that I am alive, the question isn't "omg why", because that's a question you can only answer for yourself each day through your decisions and actions. 

If I wanted to give an easy and vague answer to that easy and vague question I could easily say, "to make myself happy."  In any and every sense. 

"How am I going to use the time I have" is a much more enriching answer that helps to focus the "why."  "Why spend time in any specific way," because it's limited...

I'm going to spend my time using my mind’s fullest power to create value in my own life that's meaningful, and individual, to me.


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I think I am missing

I think I am missing something here; let me get this straight. so, religion provides answers to metaphysical questions, like "who am I?" "why am I here?" and "where did I come from?" And an atheist view would be that those questions are irrelevant to the fullness of experience of our existence or that they are not metaphysical questions at all(?) Further, the athiest would argue that the answers religion provides have no evidence to support them.

The only problem I have is that even though evolution provides some evidence of biological evolution, the problem of infinite regression persists in that the question of the beginning would always be left unanswered. I suppose what I am trying to say is that it seems to me that reason has its limitations - this is where faith and religion steps in - granted in many corrupt and destructive forms. so, to me the fact that there is no evidence for these answers is precisely the essence of them and may be a good argument for why not to beleive in them, but I am missing how it's a good argument for why one should not ask them (because there's no answer?).

I may be way off because I don't know much about athiesm and I am a new philosophy major.

Anyway, it seems unfair to condemn the rest of the world to hell because the answer one person chose for their own supersensible questions is not accepted by all. At the same time it seems narrow-minded to contend for another person what metaphysical questions are/are not necessary for a rewarding existence.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: I'm

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I'm curious as to how an atheist answers this question why are we here?

I can tell you I love my two children and have no doubt why I am here.

Why are you here for the love of your God?

Our purpose is love same as yours. I'm just not divided.

Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

That's HOW we got here not why.


If you're not looking for a causal explanation then what kind of explanation are you looking for?
The 'why' sounds like you are looking for an explanation involving 'intentions' and 'decisions'. In which case, perhaps I could say that I'm here because my parents wanted to bring a child into the world. (well, I actually think that they got a bit 'careless' once they were married, but I wasn't a complete accident! Eye-wink)

If not, what kind of explanation are you looking for?
You need to make yourself clearer.
I think "why are we here?" is one of those questions that sounds deep and confusing because it doesn't make sense and consequently baffles people.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: I'm

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I'm curious as to how an atheist answers this question why are we here?

 

That is what is the purpose of life to an atheist?

 

Atheist - No-one knows 

Theist - God Knows 


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First, welcome. Second, my

First, welcome. Second, my responses are below. 

TheDalbster wrote:

I think I am missing something here; let me get this straight. so, religion provides answers to metaphysical questions, like "who am I?" "why am I here?" and "where did I come from?" And an atheist view would be that those questions are irrelevant to the fullness of experience of our existence or that they are not metaphysical questions at all(?)

 Yes, you're missing something. Namely, I've never heard an atheist say that those are not metaphysical questions. Religion does not really answer those questions, either. Our parents answer "Who am I", science/biology answers, "Where did I come from" and we answer, "Why are we here?" We also answer, "Who am I" for ourselves, once we get old enough. How is it that we anwer, "Why am I here?" We answer that by coming to whatever conclusion we do. But in any case, it requires reason to do this. I'll respond to your "faith" point down below.

TheDalbster wrote:
Further, the atheist would argue that the answers religion provides have no evidence to support them.

Not only that, but also that religion provides no evidence to support itself.

TheDalbster wrote:
The only problem I have is that even though evolution provides some evidence of biological evolution, the problem of infinite regression persists in that the question of the beginning would always be left unanswered.

 The problem of infinite regression does not exist. This is an advanced physics question, better for one of the scientists over in the science forum. However, evolution does not provide an infinite regression anyway; it certainly has a terminal end. It's called abiogenesis and it has been shown possible in various experiments over the years.

TheDalbster wrote:
I suppose what I am trying to say is that it seems to me that reason has its limitations - this is where faith and religion steps in

 This is incorrect. Faith and religion do not provide answers to any questions that logic, reason and science cannot either. My question to you is: Where do faith and religion provide answers that science, logic and reason do not? I highly suggest the book Atheism: A Case Against God to answer this question. It's a great book for a philosophy person. I will contend that faith and religion cannot answer any questions at all. Why not? If you take an answer on faith and religion, then you could take ANY answer and just choose to believe it. Does that make faith a sensible way to come to a conclusion about something? Of course not. Furthermore, an example to provide illumination. Say you have faith that every time you flip a normal, heads-tails coin and let it land that it will be heads up. Let us even suppose that for the first ten times you flip it, it lands heads up. Does this make your faith correct? Of course not. Just having faith in something does not mean that you are correct, and neither does faith provide any type of method of knowing that you are or are not correct; it simply presupposes its own veracity. This is called assuming the conclusion, usually. 

You might say, "But reason and logic break down when asking metaphysical questions." No they don't. They have perfect answers for them. Just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean that they are not correct. Sorry if I'm putting words into your mouth here. This response was also partly directed at the originator of this thread.

TheDalbster wrote:
so, to me the fact that there is no evidence for these answers is precisely the essence of them and may be a good argument for why not to believe in them, but I am missing how it's a good argument for why one should not ask them (because there's no answer?).

Again, I don't think anyone is saying these should not be asked. They are presuppositionalist questions, though, which makes them less important than many other questions, such as, "Why do I let appeals to emotion affect me?" 

TheDalbster wrote:
Anyway, it seems unfair to condemn the rest of the world to hell because the answer one person chose for their own supersensible questions is not accepted by all. At the same time it seems narrow-minded to contend for another person what metaphysical questions are/are not necessary for a rewarding existence.

You know, you're right. Because of that, we should try to fight religion and its world-damning attempts. Instead, we should villify the world with reason, logic and science and enter into a period of peace, rather than irrational religious wars. Just because someone does not accept a specific religious view is no reason to kill them -- yet most "holy" books claim that that is exactly what should be done. 

 

This is where I'd like to make a quick note to Captain Pineapple: I'm a little disappointed in you. I have heard much better arguments for believing in religion than, "It makes me happy." Sorry if I misquoted you, but that's how I read it. That is clearly an appeal to emotion fallacy, and I guess it just surprised me to read that it is a reason you have, since you seem fairly reasonable.

"Jesus -- the other white Moses" - Me.


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Welcome, vidiviciveni! When

Welcome, vidiviciveni!

When you get a minute, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversation, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself.

 

 


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kmisho
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I'll go ahead and say it:

I'll go ahead and say it: There is none. There is no cosmic purpose to life.

 

Why would there be, when the fraction of the universe that all known life consitutes is so small it's hard to even give it number?


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Read the

Read the signature....

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Vastet
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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:

 

Here's a question for you. What is so difficult to understand if life is a natural occurrence, and we are really just very smart animals who live and die like any other living thing?

 

 

I feel it gives no purpose. So the purpose of life is to die? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

The purpose of life is to live, not to die. Reproduction is as close to immortality is one can achieve. A part of yourself continues on.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Thankyou for responding

Thankyou for responding Wolfgangenff.

Wolfgangenff wrote:
You might say, "But reason and logic break down when asking metaphysical questions." No they don't. They have perfect answers for them. Just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean that they are not correct. Sorry if I'm putting words into your mouth here. This response was also partly directed at the originator of this thread.

Yes, I think u r putting words into my mouth a little bit, but no worries. I think my thoughts are being taken a bit out of context from the way you split them up. Also I should have been more clear in that when I am speaking of infinite regression, I am speaking of true infinity, where one more cause or one more effect will always be left unknown - you can never get to the ultimate cause because then it would not be infinite. so, I was speaking beyond the terms of the creation of life,for ex: where did the dust in the universe come from?.

Problems such as infinite regression are meaningless and illogical and can never have a logical solution by virtue of their nature. That's why reason cannot answer them and this is where religions step in to ATTEMPT an answer.

All I am saying is that the fact that there is no logical or physical way to answer these questions is precisely their function religiously (in its purest sense and not speaking of how it is used to oppress women, give authority to politics and start wars etc). We cannot answer the question of who we are without talking about the people we are related to, but who are they? The hindu will say "you are that" - in response to abstractions, in order to answer the question of "who am I?". There's no proof, only faith. There is no way to justify these attempted answers, but I was just trying to point out that while some people can just dismiss the questions, not everyone works that way and I think it a bit narrow-minded to wish to shut down people from asking them. That is just what organized religion does - doesn't permit things to be questioned.

BTW, I wonder if infinite reqression makes no logical sense because it assumes the function of time and order, hmmmm...


wavefreak
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We are here to make Bill

We are here to make Bill Gates rich.


todangst
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Chaoslord2004 wrote:

Chaoslord2004 wrote:

The theist assumes that their must be a "why" over and above a "how." They are one and the same.

Very nice way to say it.

Aristotle assumed that every event had four 'causes":


Material cause, the matter out of which a thing is made

Formal cause, which is the species, kind, or type
Efficient cause, the source of motion, generation, or change

Final cause, the goal, or full development person's entelechy.

But since the time of Galileo and Newton, we've come to see that we can only really talk of efficient causes, as efficient causes necessarily include the 'material' and 'formal' cause, and 'final causes' only apply where intentionality can be affirmed... only theists cling to Aristotle...

 

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'


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What if there was a purpose

What if there was a purpose to life and you found out what it was, and it turned out to be something you didn’t even care about like fishing or something like that? Of course if it was fishing I think I could live with that and it would be a lot more believable than if the purpose was getting down on your knees and talking to yourself like some kinda chump.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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todangst wrote: But since

todangst wrote:
But since the time of Galileo and Newton, we've come to see that we can only really talk of efficient causes, as efficient causes necessarily include the 'material' and 'formal' cause, and 'final causes' only apply where intentionality can be affirmed

Oh, I get it - Quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle. It all makes sense! That kicks ass!


Froggy618157725
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I think the question of

I think the question of "Why?" is inherently unknowable to a closed system. You need a place outside the system to be able to propperly answer. Is there a case where the question of "Why?" doesn't either ultmately lead to circular definitions or requiring a viewpoint outside of the system in question?

For example, lets take Mathematics. At the root of why math works, we get to a set of  axioms that are assumed to give a starting point for understanding and quantifying the world around us. Math in and of itself has no reason for existence.

If all of reality is subject to this, then it leads to the confusing thought of there being no reason for the existence of anything, which contradicts that we do in fact exist. I think it would be terribly ironic if we were able to logically prove our own non-existence.

In the meantime, we're left with the obvious fact that, regardless of the reasons, methods, etc of our existence, we exist, and might as well make the best of things. That should be justification enough for a logical system of morality. But I'm an idealist there...

The sentence below is false.
The sentence above is true.
This sentence doesn't care.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: [I

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
[I like to think of it this way. I went to the store. HOW did I get there? I drove. WHY did I go there? To get milk. To me, 'how' and 'why' are two different questions.

So we can conclude that the Theist thinks the end of the journey and the milk is a great goal, while the Atheist just loves to drive.

For the atheist, the purpose, meaning and fun in that journey is intrinsic in the journey itself. A lot of it will be up to your decisions of where you drive, but all the things you're looking for, if they exist, can be found in the journey itself.

I'm guessing it's only a coincidence that I hate milk Cool


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Im not gonna lie, I dont

Im not gonna lie, I dont know. And i dont think you know, and i dont think anybody knows. I think because people so badly wanted to know the purpose of life they made something up called heaven. Really, its a perfect goal, and it benefits everyone to think that if they a life of good moral, they will be rewareded with eternal happiness. Even better, it would really push you to be good if you thought you would be punished eternally for acting against good moral. The intent of the idea of God and heaven and  hell and living a life of good moral is without doubt probably the best idea ever made, and i think even the strongest atheist would have to agree. But I think atheists see past the illusion that many see, its tempting to want to believe the purpose of life is to be with a god and live in eternal happiness after death. But really, i think christians have fear of the unknown, afraid of not knowing the purpose of why we are here and what will happen when we die.

But really, i dont know. And I admit it as i think everyone should.

I am atheist

All men by nature desire knowledge - Aristotle


wavefreak
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vidiviciveni

vidiviciveni wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I'm curious as to how an atheist answers this question why are we here?

 

That is what is the purpose of life to an atheist?

 

Atheist - No-one knows

Theist - God Knows

 

I know.[edit: spelling]

Therefore I am god.

BOW TO ME!

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jeff wrote: But really, i

jeff wrote:
But really, i dont know. And I admit it as i think everyone should.

I don't know why I'm here either. My guess is that there probably isn't a reason. I'm just here. I exist. That's it. But that's just a guess.

Here's what I think is happening. When we humans ponder our existence it's really the universe pondering its own existence. Look at it this way. The atoms that make up our carbon bodies are the exact same atoms that existed when the universe was created twelve billion years ago. So we humans are made of those same atoms that are in the air and trees and squirrels and rocks and asteroids and stars that make up the universe and have been here since the very begining.

That means we humans are the universe. And it took twelve billion years to get to the stage where we ( the universe) is begining to ask, "What is my purpose?"

We have developed the Hubble telescope to gaze out into deep space to search for answers of how we got here and where we're going. Space probes travel to distance planets searching for answers and sending back data.

Churches are part of the universe that believes it already knows the answer and that no hard data is needed. It has come up with thousands of different answers each one believing it is the real answer.

In internet forums like this one we're still asking the question, "Why are we here? Why do we exist? What's the meaning of our existence? What's going on here?"

What's going on here is the universe is talking to itself and looking at itself asking, "Why am I here? What purpose do I have? Did something create me?"

Will the universe ever find an answer? Or will it discover that there is no answer or that it has no purpose?

I don't yet know. I'll just keep pondering. Or maybe I'll have a beer and listen to some music.


 

 

 

Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?