Can Order come from Chaos?
Offline I'd like to do a thought experiment with everyone who would participate. This is just simple imagination.
Here is the basis of the this experiment.
Imagine you have twenty-six small pieces of paper with one letter from the English alphabet on each side of each piece. Now throw these imaginary pieces into the air and wait for them to land. See how many English words you can find in the jumble. If you find none, gather them up and throw them again. Eventually you will find a word and if this process is repeated enough times you will find, inevitably, every word in the English language.
Now let us remove the English alphabet from the equation and say the letters are just symbols with no other attribute then their shape. Then the only meanings we can infer from the jumble will be proper names such as Robert, Moscow or Excalibur. No matter how many times the paper is cast we can never infer a word from the mess.
Next we can remove the letters from the paper pieces and throw them again. Now the only meanings we can infer are shapes of objects we've seen in the world, the paper mess has become a pictograph.
Finally, let's remove the final aspect of order from this system, us. Without intelligence or order what can the chaotic paper mess ever become?
Please, weigh in. Give your two cents or more if you like.
Edit: spelling
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Proven Fact: 14 billion years is not enough time to allow the Big Bang and or life to occur.
Probability and the First Living Cell
Let us assume the "first living cell" had 300 gene complexes, with an average length of 3,000 nucleotides (or nucleotide pairs). Human gene complexes are far more complicated, and longer, than the gene complexes of the "first living cell" (if such a cell ever existed).
Now let us assume the probability of a random permutation of 3,000 nucleotides, being able to create a gene complex for the "first living cell," was 10‑5. This number is ridiculously generous to the theory of evolution (i.e. the real probability is much, much less than that).
Thus, we have a probability that an RNA or DNA strand for the "first living cell" would have a viable permutation of nucleotides is: 10(‑5x300) which is equal to 10‑1,500. The "‑5" is the probability of a single new gene complex forming from a randomly generated permutation of 3,000 nucleotides; and the 300 is the number of gene complexes which must be made.
Using the above example, 50 of the 300 gene complexes would be used to create one protein structure.
But even the above probability of 10‑1,500 ignores a lot of things, such as the viability of different combinations of proteins (remember, proteins must fit together, thus just having a bunch of proteins doesn't help at all, they must be a "set" of proteins which have very specific shapes and have specific amino acids in just the right places), but we will use the above numbers.
Remember, 10‑100 is an impossible probability. A probability of 10‑500 is an insane probability because it is 10400 times smaller than an impossible probability.
Now we are talking about a number which is 101,000 times smaller than an insane probability (i.e. 10(1,500‑500) equals 101,000).
Chimp
Your mistake is that you're considering a specific cell that YOU are looking at.
Here's an example of where you're very wrong.
What's the odds of flipping a penny, 8 times in a row, and having it come up heads all 8 times? The answer (without having had any coffee today ...) is 1 in 256. So, you'd have to flip a penny 8 times and about 256 trials, or 2,048 total times, to get a penny to come up heads, 8 times in a row.
Now for where you're just plain wrong.
Go grab $3.00 in pennies and find a nice place in the middle of a kitchen with a tile floor. You want the pennies to land flat. Take all 300 pennies and throw them in the air. Remove all the pennies that landed on tails. Take the remaining pennies, toss them in the air, and again remove the tails. Keep doing this. You =should= be able to repeat this 8 times and wind up with one or more pennies that were flipped and landed on heads, 8 times in a row. Instead of 2,048 trials, you only needed 8.
Now, here is where it gets interesting -- you can do this with any sequence. Like, heads-tails-heads-tails -- sort of like those base pairs that have to be in a specific order. AND you can do this in linear time, you just need more pennies. For example, 20 heads in a row is about 1 in a million. Go get $20,000.00 in pennies, toss them in the air, remove the tails, and repeat. After 20 iterations you =should= have one or more pennies that were flipped and landed on "heads", =20= times in a row, with just 20 iterations.
Now, if you told me that it is "impossible" to flip a penny 20 times and have it land "heads" all 20 times, and for me to do that in less than "forever", you'd be wrong. You could probably come up with all sorts of restrictions, but many of those restrictions can be overcome the same way Evolution likely worked -- scale.
The other problem with your "probability" argument is that you're talking about a complete organism, not self-replicating DNA or RNA.
The earliest "life" were simple molecules that were able to replicate themselves, and that can be done in far fewer base pairs. It can be done in enough "far fewer" base pairs that it would have been more "inevitable" and less "probable". AND there is evidence that by a billion or so years after the Earth was formed (3.5 billion years ago, in other words ...) there were "living" chemicals starting to re-arrange the planet.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
Can order come from chaos? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm did you see the Patriots beat the living shit outta those tebowing Broncos? Yeah to Bishop Belle of Chek and his minions St.Thomas and the Patriots.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
I think it’s natural for humans to struggle with how God created man and the universe. God's thoughts are simply beyond the human minds ability to comprehend. We mortal beings, including Steven Hawkins, can not and will never know. Look at it this way, if my workbench had a mind, Im positive my workbench would at some point question its existence, deny it was created and think it evolved from an absolute zero element free matter less universe. Bang!
Best regards,
Chimp
So ... what's wrong with the explanation that Science has found?
What part of the Big Bang contradicts your bible?
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."