creationism to be taught in ontario schools if......

latincanuck
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creationism to be taught in ontario schools if......

    Well in religious schools, as per John Tory of the conservatives and his quoto from 680 news

   

Tory said if he's elected premier Oct. 10, private religious schools could opt into the public system and still teach their core beliefs.

"It's still called the theory of evolution," Tory said. "They teach evolution in the Ontario curriculum, but they also could teach the fact to the children that there are other theories that people have out there that are part of some Christian beliefs."

 

 

    Ok here is my problem with this WHOLE thing, sure private religious schools can teach this, but they cannot opt INTO the PUBLIC system and still get goverment funding. I am sorry, i am against the catholic school boarding getting my money to so that they can spending it foolishly (and they have, they had to get a outside goverment appointed treasurer to clear up their 15 million dollar deficit) So, yeah, wow, and oh yeah, they are OTHER THEORIES.....no there maybe OTHER IDEAS, but not scientific theories as what evolution IS, other so called theories are unproven, and lets admit it, imagainary, fantasy filled idea's and nothing more. NOTHING and I MEAN NOTHING backs up these other religious theories, no ONE bit of evidence.

However he did then say it would only be taught in religous classes, but still i don't know about him. Here is the rest of the article, http://www.680news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20070905_183216_5620 


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Guess this proves there are

Guess this proves there are idiots in Canada, too. I'd say it should be taught in schools only if they teach astrology in astronomy classes, or the geocentric "theory". Or maybe they should teach in medical school the stork "theory" along with the normal baby birthing procedure.

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Ontarions Slam Religious Education

You guys should check this one out...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070918.wontpoll18/BNStory/ontarioelection2007/home

Have a look at the polling data about halfway down on the left.

As you can see, about 70% of Ontarions refused to back faith-based schooling.  If you look at how the questions were phrased in the reasons for approving/disapproving, they were set up as multiple choice.  The responder selected the one that best suited his or her view.  It is therefore difficult to rate how many exactly were opposed for what reason. 

Their rejection could be because they were xenophobic of religions other than their own.  Avoidance of the real-politic problem of cutting off funding to existing Catholic schools, for example, may have caused people to select other options than rejecting all religion.  Those who supported the measure, may have be wooed by the Conservative Party's argument that they were attempting to force private faith based schools to teach evolution in science class and to keep religion relegated to a single class.  Bring them "into the fold" as it were.  So the vote in favour of the measure is disporportionately large because the proposition was seen by some as an attempt to limit religiosity.

 The good news is this: those opposed to religious education in Ontario outnumber those in favour by somewhere between 2:1 and 4:1.

Looks like things aren't too bad north of the 49th after all, huh?


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latincanuck wrote:

latincanuck wrote:

Well in religious schools, as per John Tory of the conservatives and his quoto from 680 news

Tory said if he's elected premier Oct. 10, private religious schools could opt into the public system and still teach their core beliefs.

"It's still called the theory of evolution," Tory said. "They teach evolution in the Ontario curriculum, but they also could teach the fact to the children that there are other theories that people have out there that are part of some Christian beliefs."

 

 

Ok here is my problem with this WHOLE thing, sure private religious schools can teach this, but they cannot opt INTO the PUBLIC system and still get goverment funding. I am sorry, i am against the catholic school boarding getting my money to so that they can spending it foolishly (and they have, they had to get a outside goverment appointed treasurer to clear up their 15 million dollar deficit) So, yeah, wow, and oh yeah, they are OTHER THEORIES.....no there maybe OTHER IDEAS, but not scientific theories as what evolution IS, other so called theories are unproven, and lets admit it, imagainary, fantasy filled idea's and nothing more. NOTHING and I MEAN NOTHING backs up these other religious theories, no ONE bit of evidence.

However he did then say it would only be taught in religous classes, but still i don't know about him. Here is the rest of the article, http://www.680news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20070905_183216_5620

Which "creationism" are they going to teach? Are they going to teach the Christian version? If so, will they give equal time to Jewish and Islamic "theory"(cough cough vomit). Are they willing to let Scientologists teach that little green men populated the planet?

No, they wont. this is nothing more than trying to indoctrinate kids with Christianity through public funding. 

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Maybe the xians in Canada

Maybe the xians in Canada are thinking "baby steps"?  Could this be their first step to getting creationism taught in all schools?

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe expand upon this, but doesn't Canada lack a constitutional seperation of church and state? 

You can't rationally argue out something that was not rationally argued in.


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stevedave83 wrote: Maybe

stevedave83 wrote:

Maybe the xians in Canada are thinking "baby steps"? Could this be their first step to getting creationism taught in all schools?

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe expand upon this, but doesn't Canada lack a constitutional seperation of church and state?

It seems that theists worldwide are waking up to the fact that they got caught in a lie they dont want to face so rather than do the intelectually honest thing and discard debunked claims they seek political protection by using government to fund their fiction.

I have long feared the political correct trend of Europe and Cannada and this scares me that that this blend of politicall correctness is being combinded with goverment funding of religion.

All one needs to do to see that politically correct laws are a bad idea is to look to the opression of dissent in Islamic run governments in the Middle East. Those are politically correct lock step theocracies who's goverments fund Islam where no Christian, Muslim Jew or atheist is allowed to speak ill of Allah.

Polliticall correctness as a policy of public law will not benifit minorities or the ability to dissent. It will provide government the power to become a theocracy.

So as well intended as Cannada may think it is it has become yet another country I will never consider moving to if this one back peddles to the dark ages.

Can facism exist where religion is opressed? YES absolutly. But facism can take any form including a facist theocracy and it starts with blasphemy laws and terms like "hate speech".

I still want to believe that my Constitution is in tact and that we can reverse the theocratic trends here in America. But I'd rather stay and fight the good fight because I am seeing many of the stupid politically correct laws take hold elsewhere. 

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Win one for the good guys...

Brian37 wrote:
stevedave83 wrote:

Could this be their first step to getting creationism taught in all schools?

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe expand upon this, but doesn't Canada lack a constitutional seperation of church and state?

I have long feared the political correct trend of Europe and Cannada and this scares me that that this blend of political correctness is being combinded with goverment funding of religion.

All one needs to do to see that politically correct laws are a bad idea is to look to the opression of dissent in Islamic run governments in the Middle East. Those are politically correct lock step theocracies who's goverments fund Islam where no Christian, Muslim Jew or atheist is allowed to speak ill of Allah.

Pollitical correctness as a policy of public law will not benifit minorities or the ability to dissent. It will provide government the power to become a theocracy.

So as well intended as Canada may think it is it has become yet another country I will never consider moving to if this one back peddles to the dark ages.

I still want to believe that my Constitution is in tact and that we can reverse the theocratic trends here in America. But I'd rather stay and fight the good fight because I am seeing many of the stupid politically correct laws take hold elsewhere. 

So, looks like it's a win for the good guys.

The Conservative Party, who was proposing this filthy policy, went down to defeat very soundly in the election.  Their support dropped even further from when the newspaper article quoted above was published.  All polling data showed that the drop was due to their faith based proposal.

 What can be read into this?  Ontario (and Canadians in general) were 70% opposed to the idea of funding faith.

Of the other 30%, many of them supported the idea because the way the Conservatives were selling it.  They said that the funding would only be granted to faithhead schools if they adhered to provincial curriculum (science in science class (evolution), and religion in religion class).  In other words, they were selling it as a way to force fundamentalists to become moderates.

Granted, some of the 70% may have voted it down because they were xenophobic and only wanted their own faith funded and no one else's, but the data doesn't bear that out.

I don't know about you, but the election results and the polling done tells me that Ontarions (if not most Canadians) slapped down faith, and want it kept a private matter.  I'd call that a step in the right direction.  Culturally speaking, I'd say it puts Canadians far far ahead of the U.S. in terms of public opinion on religion's rightful place.

 We may not constitutionally have a seperation of church and state (Oh how I wish), but we seem to do a better job of walking the walk than the US does.

Brian, you're welcome to move here anytime you like.  We'd be glad to have you.  And you'd probably fit in better.  But I think we need you to keep fighting the good fight where you are for now.  Sealed


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With Brian's particular

With Brian's particular views on freedoms of speech, I'm not at all sure he'd fit in better. Eye-wink

The Liberals won. This is not necessarily a good thing. It's an odd thing. It's the second time in some 70 years that the Liberals have had a majority back to back. Also, the electoral system was not changed as per the recommendation that went to referendum. Good news in this is that the Green Party climbed almost 3 times in number of votes. Hurrah!

Ontarians don't want other religions getting the funding that the 'separate' Catholic board already gets. I don't particularly want the Catholic board getting the funding they do. I don't even want the French board getting the funding they do (French immersion has blundered all over Canada and can be shown to be ineffective... it will become an issue soon). The Catholic board already has to follow provincial curriculum standards and it seems unlikely that creationism will ever be taught at a publicly funded school in Ontario (most likely not anywhere in Canada). For that matter, it is most unlikely that any publicly funded school would ever be able to pass off religious text as true; the curriculum doesn't allow it and it wouldn't jive with the people.

The Catholic board is a school system that is attended by students of all faith backgrounds. I like to think of it as the school system for those who are firmly held in their religious beliefs. Students don't have to attend prayer if they choose not to and they only have to take 2 or 3 years of religion class, which is not exclusively Catholic. The Catholic schools also have a reputation of providing better sports and better academic education. This isn't totally true, but neither is it a totally false claim. People like the Catholic board the way it is and they like the education their children receive. People support the Catholic school board. This goes for the French (as far as I know all French schools are Catholic) and public school boards too.

People support the status quo. It's not atypical of Canadians to get uppity about change. It's not atypical of Canadians to turn a blind eye to the problems with the status quo (as election results usually indicate). What is atypical about the recent election is that Ontarians, at least, notice the problems that would arise if other faith schools got public money. I believe this has much to do with the events in England surrounding the faith schools that are receiving public funding. I believe also that Canadians in general have a good sense about what constitutes the types of education children should receive.

Our universities are all public institutions that receive public funding and that maintain strict standards in curriculum. If a student were to enter into university after being in a publicly funded institution wherein she was taught the truth of religious text and that 'theories' like creationism were equal to evolution or even that creationism is the truth and evolution is not, how would this student function when she will be required in all academic areas to understand that her religious beliefs largely do not coincide with what constitutes standard academics and scientific method? A student who maintains that the Earth is 6000 years old and that evolution is not valid is a student who can't even pass an introductory anthropology class. I find the thought of having a student so deluded revolting and I don't care to consider the effect that creationism (or any religious doctrine/ideology/'theory' ) taught in schools would have on the educational system as a whole.

Simply, I don't see such a thing ever happening;I can't imagine a Canadian student receiving such poor education.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."