Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

http://www.local6.com/news/6803904/detail.html

A Springfield pastor was arrested and charged with animal cruelty after a witness told police he saw the pastor throwing puppies from a pickup truck, according to a report.

Robert Tiencken said he saw Vincent Kohn, pastor of The Anointed Church of God, throwing several puppies into the woods and leaving them to die, WJXT-TV reported.

"He was actually throwing them, not setting them down, but throwing them as far as the trees. Just chucking them," Tiencken said. "He said, 'I told my wife. You don't have to call the police. You don't have to call them.'"

Tiencken called the police anyway.

The detectives who tracked down Kohn said they found the malnourished mother of the puppies chained-up at Kohn's home along with four or five more puppies that had no food or water, according to the WJXT-TV report.

The dogs are now being cared for at animal control.

Many of the abused puppies had lost patches of fur and some were covered with sores hidden beneath their fur. Puppies Thrown From Pickup Truck

WJXT-TV wanted to give the pastor a chance to speak for himself, but when reporter Jennifer Waugh arrived at Kohn's home a livid man pulled into the driveway and started yelling, cursing, and threatening to sue the station.

"Any footage that y'all put on the news that shows you was past the property line, just know y'all going to get it," said the irate man.

He then sped away in reverse, nearly hitting an on coming vehicle. It was unclear if the man knew Kohn.

Kohn has been charged with abandonment and cruelty to animals with unnecessary suffering.

"I just wonder what his parishioners are going to think. It's just unbelievable," Tiencken said. "Just to haul buggy and leave them on the coldest night. It's just terrible."


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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

Well, this fits right in line with the morality of the xtian church of christ don't it? After seeing good 'ol boy reverend Robertson call for the assasination of a democratically elected leader in south america, this seems merely a minor trespass, one not even noteworthy of news. Right?

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

LeftofLarry wrote:
Well, this fits right in line with the morality of the xtian church of christ don't it?

Yes, it seems to.

Quote:
After seeing good 'ol boy reverend Robertson call for the assasination of a democratically elected leader in south america, this seems merely a minor trespass, one not even noteworthy of news. Right?

Yeah, you're right. I was just trying to throw some content up. :smt100

(I was able to find some cool emoticons though) :smt112

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

Sapient wrote:
LeftofLarry wrote:
Well, this fits right in line with the morality of the xtian church of christ don't it?

Yes, it seems to.

Quote:
After seeing good 'ol boy reverend Robertson call for the assasination of a democratically elected leader in south america, this seems merely a minor trespass, one not even noteworthy of news. Right?

Yeah, you're right. I was just trying to throw some content up. :smt100

(I was able to find some cool emoticons though) :smt112

indeed..ok..I'll stop the sarcasm now...lol

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

LeftofLarry wrote:

indeed..ok..I'll stop the sarcasm now...lol

Eh, no prob. Wasn't sure how serious you were, figured my answer fit either way.

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No Excuse

There is never an excuse for cruelty to critters.

Too bad there is no hell because there would be a very special place there for this man.

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Re: No Excuse

Susan wrote:
There is never an excuse for cruelty to critters.

Too bad there is no hell because there would be a very special place there for this man.

Too bad? I have to disagree. I think a jail cell will do just as nicely, and hopefully some guy named Jose will make sure he feels the "love."

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No Excuse

You're so right.

We can only hope that Florida has "seen the light" and animal abuse is not a misdemeanor, but a full-fledged felony.

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Re: No Excuse

Rook_Hawkins wrote:
Susan wrote:
There is never an excuse for cruelty to critters.

Too bad there is no hell because there would be a very special place there for this man.

Too bad? I have to disagree. I think a jail cell will do just as nicely, and hopefully some guy named Jose will make sure he feels the "love."

Do you think this will really serve as a deterrant to such cruel acts towards animals? Is it really the case that you feel that some people really do "deserve" an outcome such as hell, or sexual abuse in prison? I'm just wondering because I so frequently see people saying things similar to what you have, and I wonder if they actually think that way, or if it is a knee-jerk reaction that they have due to the promotion of such a response by our social norms. This isn't necesarily to pick on just you, but I wonder this about anyone who makes statements such as the one above.


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Re: No Excuse

SilkyShrew wrote:
Rook_Hawkins wrote:
Susan wrote:
There is never an excuse for cruelty to critters.

Too bad there is no hell because there would be a very special place there for this man.

Too bad? I have to disagree. I think a jail cell will do just as nicely, and hopefully some guy named Jose will make sure he feels the "love."

Do you think this will really serve as a deterrant to such cruel acts towards animals? Is it really the case that you feel that some people really do "deserve" an outcome such as hell, or sexual abuse in prison?

I'm a firm believer that people should be held accountable for their actions. Here and now. If you screw up purposefully, you made that decision and now you suffer the consequences. That is what life is...cause and effect. The cruel consequences are the effect of their cruel actions. I'm not to blame for it, and I take no responcibility for it. The fact is, them being anal-raped in prison will probably happen (statistically anyway) and them going to hell won't. Suffice to say that Hell doesn't exist, and some guy named Jose probably does.

Quote:
I'm just wondering because I so frequently see people saying things similar to what you have, and I wonder if they actually think that way, or if it is a knee-jerk reaction that they have due to the promotion of such a response by our social norms. This isn't necesarily to pick on just you, but I wonder this about anyone who makes statements such as the one above.

Well, now you know. :smt006

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Re: No Excuse

Susan wrote:
There is never an excuse for cruelty to critters.

Too bad there is no hell because there would be a very special place there for this man.


It's like catch 22 with us atheists.... sometimes I do to wish there was a hell...cause I"m sure if there was you'd find just about all of the fundamentalists there and most religious leaders, with the exception of perhaps mother teresa and gandi...lol

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Re: No Excuse

SilkyShrew wrote:
Rook_Hawkins wrote:
Susan wrote:
There is never an excuse for cruelty to critters.

Too bad there is no hell because there would be a very special place there for this man.

Too bad? I have to disagree. I think a jail cell will do just as nicely, and hopefully some guy named Jose will make sure he feels the "love."

Do you think this will really serve as a deterrant to such cruel acts towards animals? Is it really the case that you feel that some people really do "deserve" an outcome such as hell, or sexual abuse in prison? I'm just wondering because I so frequently see people saying things similar to what you have, and I wonder if they actually think that way, or if it is a knee-jerk reaction that they have due to the promotion of such a response by our social norms. This isn't necesarily to pick on just you, but I wonder this about anyone who makes statements such as the one above.

Sadly, I do not believe that incarceration or any other type of punishment for someone who abuses animals serves as a deterrant to others. This type of person usually does not feel guilt over what they have done. ("It's just a dog." or "It's just a kitten."Eye-wink Nor do they understand the pain, fear or terror of the abused. They seem baffled that others view them with such horrified amazement.

Case in point: Noah's Ark Animal Foundation in Fairfield, Iowa. In 1997, a group of drunken teenaged boys broke in with the sole intent of clubbing cats to death with baseball bats. They bludgeoned 20 cats to death, injured many others and terrified the rest.

Read the awful details if you can:
http://www.sniksnak.com/news/fl-031097.html

The boys were convicted only of aggervated misdemeanors as little monetary value was placed on the animals. I recall seeing an interview with one boy and his father on the news. The father defended the boy's actions with "Boys will be boys."

In my opinion, a just punishment would be for those individuals to be put into a situation of fear and helplessness as those animals were.

If you couldn't tell, this is The Old Broad's hot button!

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

Oh man that is sad.
But hey, it isn?t like men-of-god are ever told they are to be kind to their fellow animals. Too bad this asshole couldn?t figure it out on his own.

"If nobody was listening to God, there would be nothing left for us to do but listen to each other."
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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

I found something just as sad...


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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

Sad

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

That's not sad, it's natural selection (ref. the ducks).


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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:
That's not sad, it's natural selection (ref. the ducks).

Is that metal grate, "natural?" Puzzled

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

is this pic even real?


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Re: No Excuse

Rook_Hawkins wrote:
I'm a firm believer that people should be held accountable for their actions.

Being held accountable for one's actions doesn't necesarily mean punishment, does it? If, for example, Martha Stewart had been told to make financial reparations and then never participate directly in stock trade again, would that not have been her being held accountable? Doesn't it make better sense than jail time (it would cost less money, and Martha wasn't really a physical danger to people)? Would that not have been a better natural consequence?

Quote:
Here and now. If you screw up purposefully, you made that decision and now you suffer the consequences.

Is there a reason to believe that jail is the best form of consequences, or that it makes the most sense? Or, as my initial objection was, that sexual violations in prison are?

Quote:
That is what life is...cause and effect.

However, why is it that you feel this particular event should cause the effects mentioned - a sexual assault in prison, or a prison term at all? Just because there are cause and effects, how does it follow that the most effective response to this particular crime is logically a jail term where others might be cruel to them? (I do find it particularly disturbing that people do often imply that sexual assault in prison is somehow something that individuals "deserve"Eye-wink

Quote:
The cruel consequences are the effect of their cruel actions.

Should that be the case though? How does society benefit from such things? How does anyone benefit from those things? Does it change anything about the initial crime or about the person in such a way that this crime is prevented in the future? (I would venture a guess to say "no, it does not"Eye-wink

Quote:
I'm not to blame for it, and I take no responcibility for it.

However, once a voting member of this particular society, your views on social and political issues such as this can have an effect on legal approaches to these issues. In that sense, if you support some of these things, your votes can have an effect on them. If you vote, for example, to keep prisons as they are now as a favored stance over changing them to protect the prison populace more from acts of violence, then in some part you are responsible if it has remained as it is and people suffer as a result. You are not to blame for individual instances, however, your decisions have played some role (though they may be minor) in the situations existing which fostered such things.

Quote:
The fact is, them being anal-raped in prison will probably happen (statistically anyway) and them going to hell won't. Suffice to say that Hell doesn't exist, and some guy named Jose probably does.

If the systems remain as they are, yes. However, that doesn't justify the stance that such events are reasonable effects of the crime.

Quote:
Well, now you know. :smt006

Thanks for the response Smiling

Susan wrote:
Sadly, I do not believe that incarceration or any other type of punishment for someone who abuses animals serves as a deterrant to others.

It doesn't, there have been studies done on that which show fairly well that incarceration is an ineffective deterrant, the same thing applies to capital punishment.

Quote:
This type of person usually does not feel guilt over what they have done. ("It's just a dog." or "It's just a kitten."Eye-wink Nor do they understand the pain, fear or terror of the abused. They seem baffled that others view them with such horrified amazement.

Well, that depends on the situation, really. At this point, we can only speculate about alot of this situation. However, there are ways that we could approach this situation and others like it that could serve as a deterrant. This person, I would think, should have an assessment to see how detrimental he could be to other animals and humans. I think it is very reasonable that this person not be allowed around animals whenever that can be controlled. Also, if this person has children, it might benefit them to have an assessment done on how they are cared for - to ensure that he does not have any habits that are detrimental to them. Certainly, if there is a predictable consequence, and something that relates to the event itself, that is likely to be more beneficial to society.

Quote:
Case in point: Noah's Ark Animal Foundation in Fairfield, Iowa. In 1997, a group of drunken teenaged boys broke in with the sole intent of clubbing cats to death with baseball bats. They bludgeoned 20 cats to death, injured many others and terrified the rest.

That's terrible, and I think that a similar approach to that should be taken in regards to this event.

Quote:
The boys were convicted only of aggervated misdemeanors as little monetary value was placed on the animals. I recall seeing an interview with one boy and his father on the news. The father defended the boy's actions with "Boys will be boys."

That's just a non-answer. It's like when people justify rape with, "he's a man." It has nothing to do with anything at all.

Quote:
In my opinion, a just punishment would be for those individuals to be put into a situation of fear and helplessness as those animals were.

How would that solve anything, though?

----------------

The duck thing is sad, but the response you guys had was amusing, lol.

Poor ducks ... my question was, what was the photographer doing?


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Re: No Excuse

SilkyShrew wrote:

Quote:
In my opinion, a just punishment would be for those individuals to be put into a situation of fear and helplessness as those animals were.

How would that solve anything, though?

It would deter the boys from doing something similar in the future as they would have a better understanding of the harm caused when doing such things. That wasn't obvious?

I'm an eye for an eye type of guy myself.

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

Sapient wrote:
Yellow_Number_Five wrote:
That's not sad, it's natural selection (ref. the ducks).

Is that metal grate, "natural?" Puzzled

I?d vote yes. I seem to differ in what I define as Natural Selection and Artificial Selection when compared to what I was taught. The following is my thoughts on it only:

Natural Selection involves animals being weeded out by their environment, whether it is manmade or not (even though ?nature? is usually in the defined cause, I consider humanity as a part of nature).

Even if we set up the grate as a ?duck trap? to kill them, that would be natural selection. Some will be weeded out but we aren?t deciding which ones to weed out. We are making the environment more hazardous though. I will elaborate below.

The opposite of natural selection would be artificial selection. This is defined as ?intentional or unintentional modification of a species through human actions which encourage the breeding of certain traits over others.? (wiki)

I tend to think of it more in terms of being artificial selection only if we are choosing what to weed out to select based on genetics. This is from my considering humanity and civilizations as a part of nature.

Unintentional changes we cause (in terms of genetics) are natural selection to me. An example of this would be if I wanted to be hunting and grab some deer. I am just another animal out there doing what animals do. I have no concern with changing the genetics of the population.

Intentional changes we cause (in terms of genetics) are artificial selection to me. An example of this would be if I wanted to breed a certain style of dog or cattle. My actions are based on the desired outcome in the offspring.

That is just me.

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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

FYI
I made this its own topic here to see what others thought
the thread


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Re: No Excuse

Sapient wrote:
SilkyShrew wrote:

Quote:
In my opinion, a just punishment would be for those individuals to be put into a situation of fear and helplessness as those animals were.

How would that solve anything, though?

It would deter the boys from doing something similar in the future as they would have a better understanding of the harm caused when doing such things. That wasn't obvious?

I'm an eye for an eye type of guy myself.

Prove that it serves as a deterrant. In the studies that I have seen, current systems, including those that enforce this kind of punishment, don't serve as deterrants, that is a large part of why the current Criminal Justice system doesn't work.


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Pastor arrested for throwing puppies into woods, left to die

You're right. Jail by itself isn't much of a deterrant.

That's why, in my opinion, punishment should be a bit more creative.

Unfortunately creative punishments would likely be challenged in court. Not to mention, there just isn't enough staff to oversee that sentence is carried out.

Case in point: community service. Great idea especially if the particular type of service relates to the crime. However, I suspect that a lot of people get away with not completing their service.

Since it's one of my hot buttons though: if I were Queen, the punishment for any type of animal abuse would involve something where the abuser would feel total fear and helplessness at the hands of something larger and more powerful.

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Re: No Excuse

Rook_Hawkins wrote:
Susan wrote:
There is never an excuse for cruelty to critters.

Too bad there is no hell because there would be a very special place there for this man.

Too bad? I have to disagree. I think a jail cell will do just as nicely, and hopefully some guy named Jose will make sure he feels the "love."

right on instead of 8 to ten years give them 12 to 13 inches lol

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