Pastor charged with incest

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Pastor charged with incest

Pastor Charged With Incest

http://www.northcountrygazette.org/articles/021006PastorIncest.html

QUEENS-- The pastor of a Westbury, LI, church has been charged with sexually abusing his three daughters at their Rockaway residence over the last 4? years.

"What allegedly happened to these children is every child's and every mother's worst nightmare" district attorney Richard A. Brown said. "Even after the physical abuse has stopped, the consequences of such sexual assault for victims are profound and can result in emotion trauma from which they may never recover."

Morales Saintilus, 53, of Rockaway, Queens, pastor of the Eben-Ezer Baptist Church, located at 859 Prospect Avenue in Westbury, is being held pending arraignment in Queens Criminal Court on four counts of incest, two counts of endangering the welfare of a child and two counts of sexual abuse in the second degree.

If convicted, he faces up to four years in prison. According to court records in Queens Criminal Court, it is alleged that the defendant, between July 2001 and January 2006, had sexual intercourse with his eldest daughter approximately twice a week. The daughter is presently 19 years old. It is further alleged that the defendant, between September 2004 and June 2005, sexually abused his two younger daughters on a total of 17 occasions. At the time of the incidents, both daughters were less than 14 years old.
2-10-06

- Brian Sapient


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LeftofLarry
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Pastor charged with incest

This is sick, and also, not surprising. However, I did not expect this from a baptist, more from a catholic because catholics are extremely sexually repressed; more so than baptists. At least baptists priests get to marry. Either way...not surprising.

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Pastor charged with incest

LeftofLarry wrote:
This is sick, and also, not surprising. However, I did not expect this from a baptist, more from a catholic because catholics are extremely sexually repressed; more so than baptists. At least baptists priests get to marry. Either way...not surprising.

Do you have any evidence that sexual repression has a corrolation between it and particular kinds of sexully maladaptive behaviors, especially sexual abuse cases? Although there, may be some mechanism that causes people with sexually maladaptive behaviors to find 'easier' ways to seek out victims, this means that the cause of the abuse and the social position of the person is caused by the person's sexual desires, not the person's social position being a cause of their actions.


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Pastor charged with incest

SilkyShrew wrote:
LeftofLarry wrote:
This is sick, and also, not surprising. However, I did not expect this from a baptist, more from a catholic because catholics are extremely sexually repressed; more so than baptists. At least baptists priests get to marry. Either way...not surprising.

Do you have any evidence that sexual repression has a corrolation between it and particular kinds of sexully maladaptive behaviors, especially sexual abuse cases? Although there, may be some mechanism that causes people with sexually maladaptive behaviors to find 'easier' ways to seek out victims, this means that the cause of the abuse and the social position of the person is caused by the person's sexual desires, not the person's social position being a cause of their actions.

Well..I think that in cases where there seems to be a trend, for example, sexual abuse in churches, and especially catholic churches, you have to look at the psychology of the religion.

So let me explain it this way, and this is my contention.

So you start with the question

Why is it that Catholic Priests molest boys?

If you look at the catholic religion, sex is considered a perverted act, unless you're married. But it is drilled in catholics that sex before marriage is a sin, you'll go to hell, etc..etc.. it considers sex as sin, this tends to repress your sexuality in a manner, I think, that can lead to potential sexually maladaptive behaviors later on in life.

Priests are not allowed to marry, and definitely are not allowed to have sex. So they have to repress a perfectly natural bodily function, more so than your average catholic, because lets face it, very few catholics practice celibacy until marriage. So priests have to deal with this somehow, and repressed feelings usually manifest themselves abdnormally. I'm not a psychologist, however, I would imagine that put in a situation where you are sexually repressed and have access to "victims" in this case young boys, it would facilitate the 'maladaptive behavior' associated with sexual repression. It's like placing a pyromaniacal arsonist in a butane manufacturing factory.

Now, the abuses may have stemmed from predetermined pedophiles or hebephiles, joining the clergy to be placed in a position of power to satisfy their sexual needs. However, there seems to be a problem specifically with the catholic church. You do not seem to have this problem with other forms of religions that allow normal sexual contact and marriage as priests. So you have to ask yourself, is it intrinsically possible that the catholic religion/ideology/sexual suppression is directly responsible for pedophilia in priests?

The core of catholicism lies also with the "virgin" mary. Just the idea that virginity is purity, exemplifies how the catholics look at sex. And catholics, more so than protestants worship the virgin mary. To be clean to be pure, you must remain virginal, that may have some implicit contradictions with human biology and natural responses to stimuli. Sexual drive is something that is innate in all living things....once it is psychologically repressed and alterred, normal behavior may also be altered.

Here is a supporting document:

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/nelson.htm

JournaI of Sex Education & Therapy, Vol. 15, No.1, 1989, pp.3-12
American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors & Therapists

PS. I apologize for any grammatical or typos..I don't proofread my threads...mainly due to time constraints.

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SilkyShrew
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Pastor charged with incest

I appologise for this taking so long for me to respond to - I have been quite busy and I wanted to dedicate an adequate amount of time to my answer in order to be clear.

LeftofLarry wrote:
SilkyShrew wrote:
LeftofLarry wrote:
This is sick, and also, not surprising. However, I did not expect this from a baptist, more from a catholic because catholics are extremely sexually repressed; more so than baptists. At least baptists priests get to marry. Either way...not surprising.

Do you have any evidence that sexual repression has a corrolation between it and particular kinds of sexully maladaptive behaviors, especially sexual abuse cases? Although there, may be some mechanism that causes people with sexually maladaptive behaviors to find 'easier' ways to seek out victims, this means that the cause of the abuse and the social position of the person is caused by the person's sexual desires, not the person's social position being a cause of their actions.

Well..I think that in cases where there seems to be a trend, for example, sexual abuse in churches, and especially catholic churches, you have to look at the psychology of the religion.

So let me explain it this way, and this is my contention.

So you start with the question

Why is it that Catholic Priests molest boys?

Why not start with the question, why do people molest children? (btw, not all the victims in the catholic sex candals were boys, however, due to the sexual biases in Western culture, it was the violation of the boys that got the most attention.)

Quote:
If you look at the catholic religion, sex is considered a perverted act, unless you're married. But it is drilled in catholics that sex before marriage is a sin, you'll go to hell, etc..etc.. it considers sex as sin, this tends to repress your sexuality in a manner, I think, that can lead to potential sexually maladaptive behaviors later on in life.

Actually, most cultures have sexual acts that they put boundaries on. Sexual taboos of some form or another are quite common and don't seem to have a direct link to this particular sexual behavior. The only evidence that links sexual taboo to certain sexual behaviors indicates corrolation between the presence of particular sexual behaviors in areas where those particular behaviors are especially taboo. However, there does seem to be some indication that this is actually due to the behavior being noticed more where it is taboo, rather than the occurance of the behavior actually being more prominent. So, essentially, more studies on that matter need to be done. Even so, corrolation is not causation.

Also, there is not evidence to indicate that sexual repression leads to tendencies towards sexual abuse. What has been found in studies is that sexual repression leads to people not wanting to discuss sexual issues. This does not lead to prime situations for sexual abuse to occur, necesarily, but it leads to prime situations for abuse victims to be unable to speak out, and for abuse situations to be covered up (due to people in that social environment not wanting to talk about it).

Sexual repression does lead to sexually maladaptive behaviors, but those behaviors are not in the line of things that hurt others, other than in promoting the continuation of the repression through social veins - rather, it is the case that the person feels guilty for common and natural sexual acts, have a difficult time sexually expressing themselves, and sometimes have difficulty interacting with others in a sexual manner (this kind of consequence is actually counter to the myth of sexual repression being a cause of pedophillia).

In reality, the myth of sexual repression causing what a society considers sexually negative behaviors is common. This inference has been used by the christian right in order to shun homosexuality, it has been used against girls and women who have been victims (and is often coulpled with a claim that the woman is "trying to get attention,"Eye-wink and an many other scenarios where taboo sexual practices are involved. Now, in the case of pedophilia, the behavior is certainly damaging, and is taboo with good reason. However, that is not a good basis to promote this myth. In fact, promoting this myth is detrimental to actually finding solutions to the presence of pedophiles.

Quote:
Priests are not allowed to marry, and definitely are not allowed to have sex. So they have to repress a perfectly natural bodily function, more so than your average catholic, because lets face it, very few catholics practice celibacy until marriage.

Do you have any hard data on the numbers of Catholics which practise celibacy before marriage, and any comparison to priests who do so?

Quote:
So priests have to deal with this somehow, and repressed feelings usually manifest themselves abdnormally.

Actually, the feelings come up like they do in most other individuals - but what happens is, due to the cultural/social context, these men have been conditioned to respond a particular way. This results in feelings of shame, difficulty discussing sexual issues, and problems with sexual expression. There is actually not an indication that sexual repression leads to pedophilia. There is indication that other factors lead to pedophilia, and I will address that at the end of this post.

Quote:
I'm not a psychologist, however, I would imagine that put in a situation where you are sexually repressed and have access to "victims" in this case young boys, it would facilitate the 'maladaptive behavior' associated with sexual repression. It's like placing a pyromaniacal arsonist in a butane manufacturing factory.

I am not a psychologist either, however, psychology and neuroscience have become something of a hobby of mine, along with some other social sciences. The problem with the example you just used is, you are comparing a pyromanical person (a person with a proven and existing condition, I assume) with a person who is sexually repressed (something dependant upon a social setting, and a condition that need no diagnosis, nor is shown to be harmful to other individuals). The pyromaniac has a focus in their condition, which would be directed at the butane if they were in a factory. However, a person who is sexually repressed doesn't have a focus, they don't necesarily have even an official condition, really. Their situation can possibly be changed through a change in a social situation.

Quote:
Now, the abuses may have stemmed from predetermined pedophiles or hebephiles, joining the clergy to be placed in a position of power to satisfy their sexual needs.

That's not exactly how it seems to go, either. In fact, it seems to be the case (from the reports and studies that I read) that some of these priests actually joined the clergy due to either life circumstances, or with the understanding that they would be able to use their religious activity to "take their minds off of" their sexual attractions.

Quote:
However, there seems to be a problem specifically with the catholic church. You do not seem to have this problem with other forms of religions that allow normal sexual contact and marriage as priests.

Actually, the reason why the Catholic pedophile scandal seems to be such an issue is because of the media attention it got. There were similar scandals within five years of this one in the Mormon church, the Jehovah's Witness, Seventh-Day Advintist, Hare Krishna, Jainism, several foster care facilities, schools across the country, day-care centers, summer camps, and a number of other situations where adults had situations where they were alone with children as a part of standard policy.

It seems to be the case that the problem is not in the set-up of the religion's take on sexual issues, rather, in any institutionalized organization, where children are present, the institution should be held accountable to ensuring that children are not made vulnerable by placing them in the care of adults where they will be left alone and not have other advocates. Also, in the Catholic church scandal, as well as the one in the Mormon church, and the one in the JW, there was an additional complication of the victims being unable to express themselves in regards to the problem, and where the social response was skiddish because it was a sexual issue. I actually talked about the effect of this in my first Sex Show about two weeks ago.

Quote:
So you have to ask yourself, is it intrinsically possible that the catholic religion/ideology/sexual suppression is directly responsible for pedophilia in priests?

no, I find no need to ask that, due to what understanding I already have of sexuality, sexual repression, and the issue at hand. I find that this is a myth that needs dispelled due to its flaws, and because I find it to be detrimental to helping those that get caught up in these situations.

Quote:
The core of catholicism lies also with the "virgin" mary. Just the idea that virginity is purity, exemplifies how the catholics look at sex. And catholics, more so than protestants worship the virgin mary. To be clean to be pure, you must remain virginal, that may have some implicit contradictions with human biology and natural responses to stimuli. Sexual drive is something that is innate in all living things....once it is psychologically repressed and alterred, normal behavior may also be altered.

It is altered, but not in the ways that you are assuming.

Quote:
Here is a supporting document:

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/nelson.htm

JournaI of Sex Education & Therapy, Vol. 15, No.1, 1989, pp.3-12
American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors & Therapists

This article doesn't really support the notion that sexual repression leads to pedophillic tendencies. In fact, it supports what I have been saying. But, it is actually an article that seems directed at outlining the range of types of pedophillic behaviors and the results to the victims.

Quote:
PS. I apologize for any grammatical or typos..I don't proofread my threads...mainly due to time constraints.

eh, I'm not terribly picky - but I thought you might benefit from some further information, so, I'm going to give it to you Eye-wink

Firstly, pedophilia as a taboo is looked upon differently in western cultures than other major cultures. For example, the age ranges of what people commonly call a "pedophile" (although the psychatric community does not use this definition) is a person who prefers sexual interaction with people considered legally underage (usually under the ages of 16, 17, or 18 - depending on place of residence).

Secondly, instances of child molestation are quite common, and the person who does it is not necesarily a pedophile. Those that commit acts of child molestation don't necesarily fit a particular stereotype, although there are corrolationary findings that are used to profile criminals (this is something I have a tendency to disagree with).

Lastly, I am going to add an excerpt of what is stated in a book by Elizabeth and Albert Allgeier on this topic from their book Sexual Interactions:

Quote:
The pedophile, or sexual abuser of children, is usually envisioned as a dirty old man who lures an innocent young girl into a dark alley or the woods, where he rapes her. Men incarcerated for child sexual abuse tend to be the prisoners whom guards and other prisoners most despise, and are regarded with even more disgust and rage than are rapists of adult women. How accurate is the stereotype of pedophiles as "dirty old men"? At the outset, we should note that people who sexually approach children (primarily men) are usually either related to or acquaintances of the youngsters.

Those convicted of sexual offenses against minors tend to be older than other convicted sex offenders. Their average age at conviction is 35, and about a quarter are over age 45 (Arndt, 1991; Gebhard et. al., 1965). Past clinical and survey literature has described the pedophile as conservative, socially inadequate, psychosexually immature, and psychologically disturbed, but in their review of the literature, Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg (1992) found no evidence to support these assumptions. Even if we consider only convicted child sex offenders, clear-cut psychiatric disturbance is not generally apparent, although many child offenders tend toward shyness, loneliness, low self-esteem, isolation, and sensitivity to the evaluations of others (Okami & Goldberg, 1992). In general, the younger the victim is, the more likely it is that the sexual offender exhibits psychopathology (Kalichman, 1991). Similar to sexually coercive college men (see Chapter 19), convicted offenders of sexual crimes against children do not appear to lack appropriate social skills (Koralewski & Conger, 1992; Okami & Goldberg, 1992). Further, an anonymous survey of almost 200 college men indicated that about a fifth felt sexual attraction toward some small children, and 7 percent indicated some likelihood of having sex with a child if they would not be caught or punished (Briere & Runtz, 1989). Although attraction to children was associated with a number of negative attitudes toward women and with negative early sexual esperiences, men in Briere and Runtz's sample reporting attraction and fantasies about young children did not differ from other men in levels of sexual repression or impulse control.

There is some evidence that men who attempt to have sexual contact with children adjust their sexual behaviors to the age level of their partner or victim (Okami & Goldberg, 1992). That is, they will engage in the early stages of a normal courtship sequence, looking and touching, but they generally avoid more intimate forms of sexual contact. In only 4 percent of cases that Finkelhor (1979) studied did the prepubescent girls report that coitus had occurred between them and the offender. The contact was confined to exhibitionism in 20 percent of the episodes and to touching and fondling of the genitals in another 38 percent of child-adult sexual interactions.

A primary and relatively permanent sexual interest in children (true pedophilia) actually chracterizes only a quarter to a third of imprisoned child molesters. The rest of those convicted of the offense appear to have made advances to a child for situational reasons; that is, the contact occurred during periods of stress, frusteration, or lack of other sexual outlets or during an unusual opportunity (Arndt, 1991; Gebhard et al., 1965).

If a person develops a sexual interest in children how is this interest translated into behavior? From time to time, all of us experience arousal under inappropriate conditions or toward inappropriate people, and we choose not to act on our arousal. You may feel attracted to your best friend's partner, or you may get inexplicably "turned on" while sitting in class one day, but you inhibit your feelings to avoid hurting your friends or embarassing yourself. The sexual abuser, however, may be disinhibited as a result of various factors, a major one being alcohol.

Cognitive distortions or unusual thought processes are also thought to allow the offender to bypass his normal inhibitions. In a study of 101 child sex offenders undergoing treatment, the following cognitive distortions were the most frequently mentioned when the men were asked to report what they were thinking at the time of the offense (Neighdigh & Krop, 1992, p. 212):

"She enjoyed it."
"This won't hurt her or affect her in any way."
"This is not so bad, it's not really wrong."
"I was high on alcohol or drugs at the time."
"I wasn't thinking at all or I wouldn't have done it."
"No one will ever find out so I won't get caught."
"She is flirting and teasing me, she wants me to do it."

Sexual Interactions by Elizabeth Rice Allgeier and Albert Richard Allgeier; copyright 2000, Houghton Mifflin Company. Pp. 419-420

I rely on the Allgeier's for this information mostly for the sake of credibility, as I recognize people will likely accept their word more readily than mine, since this is their official field of study. (I study sexology and psychology, but I don't have a degree in it). I have other information on this subject, if people are interested.

Edit: minor bbc oops