So much for Catholic morality...

Rigor_OMortis
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So much for Catholic morality...

... and the secret decrees of Vatican.

Hope it wasn't posted again.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1869539365648274355&hl=en

BEAUTIFUL documentary.

StMichael, this is dedicated against you !

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


StMichael
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 I am flattered that I am

 I am flattered that I am the target of a specific hate thread.

But I would point out that this video is not a little biased. I would point out that the initial bishop who let the abuse happen was deposed by the Holy Father. There is nothing in Catholic dogma that ensures that all bishops, priests, or laypeople will act perfectly.

The document described needs to be actually read before you make silly comments. The CDF revised the document indicated in the movie with the very letter which Cardinal Ratzinger issued. The new Code of Canon law was issued after those directives, which changed the way it applied. The main policy pursued by the Holy See in matters of criminal abuse of children is to reserve all such cases to itself in order to depose the priest in question and turn them over to secular authorities. There are likewise new directives on a local level that bishops in dioceses must follow, which are better steps to ensure that no child abuse happens again. The Holy See is likewise attempting to reform many of these dioceses which have problems and to move to create directives to ensure proper enforcement of the Church's policies.

 

Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom,

StMichael 

 

Psalm 50(1):8. For behold thou hast loved truth: the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom thou hast made manifest to me.


Rigor_OMortis
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Oh come on, now, I don't

Oh come on, now, I don't hate anybody, let alone you.

Of course there's no guarantee that one will be perfect for their position. Of course there's no way of telling for sure that the person who is now named a priest won't be charged for murder or assault in a few years. I also understand the Canons, and I will take your word that what you say about the new ones is true.

However...

The obvious question one may ask is WHY the situation is like this. It seems to me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) that the Church (in general, not referring only to the Catholics) has only waited until the last moment to change things. It has waited until many of its schemes or errors have been proven, publicised and even ridiculed before it changed to face the obvious.

It was obvious that the cases present in the movie (especially the charged priest) are neither isolated cases, nor premieres... Why did the church have to CHANGE something, in order to comply with human morality (and law) ? Why haven't the Holy See acted to root out the bad influences, and come out, saying "This priest is a liar, a child-molester, etc. We have no need for such a Satan-bound creature amongst us." That would have made the Church truly a moralising institution, one that is not afraid of coming public.

But no, the Church didn't do such a thing. The Church tried to oppose (evolution, Solar System, non-geocentric Universe), then hide (as the above case) hoping that nothing will change, nothing will become public.

May I ask why exactly such an obviously negative (even malevolent) attitude from such a "holy" institution ?

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


StMichael
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Quote: It was obvious that

Quote:

It was obvious that the cases present in the movie (especially the charged priest) are neither isolated cases, nor premieres... Why did the church have to CHANGE something, in order to comply with human morality (and law) ? Why haven't the Holy See acted to root out the bad influences, and come out, saying "This priest is a liar, a child-molester, etc. We have no need for such a Satan-bound creature amongst us." That would have made the Church truly a moralising institution, one that is not afraid of coming public.

Read any catechism. Such things are clearly condemned by the Catholic Church, and have been for ages. Sexual crimes committed by priests are as old as the Church, and the punishments of these clerics are equally so. The Fourth Lateran Council issued numerous penalties, for instance, dealing with clerics who had mistresses and the like. To oversimplify, the extensive pederasty in today's Church is mostly a result of really bad seminary formation which existed in the USA and Europe from about 1970-1990, where priests were taught basically to disregard Church teaching on a host of issues (which led to problems, obviously, in not following moral teachings). Most of this has been since cleaned up in seminaries. The Holy See acted quickly to bring a halt to this, and has been doing so ever since. You also forget just how big the Church is; it is QUITE large and change does not come fast in such a big body.
I also find it strange that you discuss the Church as seperate from Catholics. What Church are we talking about? Christians of other denominations do not belong to the Catholic Church at all, and don't even generally have much of an ecclesiology at all (the term Church is not the same for them).

Quote:

May I ask why exactly such an obviously negative (even malevolent) attitude from such a "holy" institution ?

In any institution, there are good and bad people. The good part is that the Church is not merely a human institution, but a divine one as well.

Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom,
StMichael

Psalm 50(1):8. For behold thou hast loved truth: the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom thou hast made manifest to me.


Rigor_OMortis
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Then why the secrecy? why

Then why the secrecy? why the attempts to hide?

I wonder what church officials will say if humans ever find extraterrestrial life.

And you say that other Christians than catholics don't have such ecclesiology at all? My dear man, you are mistaken greatly! Look at the Orthodox Church. I do admit orthodox christianity isn't significant in the USA, but, then again, the USA isn't the whole world!

Anyways, point taken about confessions and the seal (thanks to the other thread). The question above still remains, though.

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


StMichael
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The secrecy was committed in

The secrecy was committed in violation of Church teaching about the character of these offenses. There are, as I said, evil bishops and priests.
I have no idea what the Church would say about extraterrestrial life, if it exists (which I doubt). The Church basically will not say anything until we encounter it. The Scriptures do not reveal anything about aliens to us, so it is not important for our salvation.
Lastly, I know the Orthodox count. The Orthodox, however, are practically Catholic. However, I would still point out that their notion of ecclesiology still isn't nearly as developed as the Roman Catholics'.

Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom,
StMichael

Psalm 50(1):8. For behold thou hast loved truth: the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom thou hast made manifest to me.