Don't fence me in

Anonymous
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Don't fence me in

I am confused about the Mexican border topic because I have heard stories from both sides. I was wondering what others take may be on this issue. I've heard some stories from legal Mexicans that come here after jumping through all the hoops only to be done in by the lower wage illegal Mexican. "Illegal" because of why though? Is this simply a race issue? I don't hear anyone complaining about the Canadian border. I know if I go to Europe, I have to have the proper credentials or they can deport my ass back to the states, though. On the other hand, I can go to Mexico anytime I want. I just show them my ID. It's not like I gotta climb some fence or anything. I think all of these imaginary lines are just as irrational as imaginary friends. I also think if people would stop viewing Mexicans in a negative light, we in "America" could see what a rich and beautiful culture they offer. Sad


DrFear
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MarthaSplatterhead wrote:

MarthaSplatterhead wrote:
"Illegal" because of why though?

illegal because they have no papers, and never recieve a SSN, and they then go and take profitable, skilled jobs by 'unscrupulous' employers who basically launder their wages for them in exchange for paying around 1.50-2.00 less per hour than the 'prevailing' wage for said job. (i'm a non union electrician, so idealistically i have no problem with this practice, except that there are tons of american kids looking for jobs, and the only options they are afforded are at fast food restuarants and department stores because of this)
legal immigrants who follow the naturalisation system are basically forced to comply with employment and tax laws, or face deportation (but like any other american infrastructure, this is infinitely flawed. regardless, immigrants who truly wish to follow the letter of the law get royally screwed)

MarthaSplatterhead wrote:
I don't hear anyone complaining about the Canadian border.

i have heard complaints, but of course they are not as loud as the alternative, simply because a. Canadians are pretty happy where they are, and b. there are no videotapes of Canadians making braveheart-style charges for the border (mainly on account of point a.)
the main concern with the canadian border is that it is somewhat lax and could potentially allow terrorists passage, whereas the mexican border allows fluid passage for any and everybody....just like you said.
a note: Philly has had a pretty weak gang scene in relation to any other major U.S. city. in the past 5 years, the mexican/ S.A. population has tripled/quadrupled, so we have a nice influx of real mexican food (what else is there, really?). but in the past few months, i've noticed a bunch of MS13 (one of the most violent contemporary street gangs) gang tags going up in those (previously negotiable) neighborhoods. so if you think immigration doesn't contribute to crime, keep an eye on philadelphia violent crime statistics, because they're already at record highs for the decade. also watch scarface, because it's based on a historical event (not tony montana, stupid, the cuban prisoner deportation )Cool Doob
(i don' like brian depalma, neither!)

Fear is the mindkiller.


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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Dr. Fear, your insight has

Dr. Fear, your insight has really helped me. I lived in San Diego before coming to live in Oregon. I actually lived where you could be hanging out and see the illegals running behind your house or through the neighbors back yard. Everyone just ignored it because it happened all the time.
I read a book called Tortilla Curtain by TC Boyle. It's a really sad story about a Mexican man who brings his wife to California. It's filled with one bad thing happening to them after another. (like to the point of ridiculous) The theme seems to be that they just want a better life. I don't remember why they don't try to go the legal route. Anyway, I think Boyle is trying to get people to see that even though something isn't legal it is still happening and the price these people pay are pretty high.
The other night I listened to one of Stak's show on Freethought Radio where he had a religious, right-wing guest in favor of strict border patrol even to the extent of building a fence. Staks seemed to favor letting people come and go as they pleased. I already stated how I feel about these imaginery lines but I totally see your point too. The reality though is that we have put these imaginary lines in place and deemed certain laws within the borders of these lines.
My dad said that when he lived in Georgia, he couldn't go anywhere without seeing a Mexican behind the counter. He said they are like cockroaches. (Yeah, he's a racist). I asked him if he knew of someone else that used to refer to another race as vermin. He didn't know but anyway I don't think he was really being racist in the point that you make about how our own kids can't even find jobs because they are being taken by illegals.
Sorry about the rambling. I guess I never can figure this one out and would love to hear some more sides on the issue.


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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DrFear wrote: (i don' like

DrFear wrote:

(i don' like brian depalma, neither!)

Yeah, I don't really care about him either. I heard Black Dahlia sucked.


DrFear
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it's not necessarily that

it's not necessarily that kids can't find jobs, there are always jobs out there, it's just that the quality of the job market for them is kept at such a low level. like i said, i'm a contractor, and contracting in general is a really profitable market right now, but instead of teaching some kids a lifelong skill that they can make a decent living off of, a lot of employers will take the cheaper, easier route, hire mexicans who
work their asses off, but have a much lower standard as to how much money that work is worth. to them, 8 dollars is a lot of money.
because of this, they also tend to overwork themselves, which in my opinion leads to a lack of pride in workmanship, quantity over quality.
but this is true of the contractors who hire them, as well.
it's such a ganglionic system, it's really hard to place any blame on anyone, but the bottom line is if the immigrants weren't there to be exploited (because that's what it is, really), contractors wouldn't exploit them.
i suppose that's a bit like saying if there weren't so many damn kids around, pedophiles wouldn't molest them, though, isn't it?
ha ha, as for de Palma, a good friend of mine recently worked for a non-profit organization that ran after-school programs for inner-city kids. he taught film, and Brian de Palma was somewhat involved.
apparently he would call my friend's office all the time, and expect everybody to lay down a bed of roses for him. all you need to do is read the guy's filmography and you'll see why this is funny.
i went through some film school myself, and beyond scarface, his movies just paint him as a cheeseball, schlockmeister, and a real studio slut-whore. in my opinion of course (which is in no way humble Eye-wink)

Fear is the mindkiller.


DrFear
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btw, i am not implying that

btw, i am not implying that i support the "union" concept of prevailing wage, that says that 30 dollars an hour is the only reasonable starting wage for a new employee. that's absolutely fucking preposterous, and that's another reason why bargain-basement mexican labor is so attractive, because clients can't afford to have the work done otherwise. it's maddening. god i hate my job. sometimes.

Fear is the mindkiller.


Susan
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Thirty dollars an hour to

Thirty dollars an hour to start? Damn! I'm in the wrong business.