War on Easter pissed this guy off

Ry
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

So I sent this poster out and that is what started it.
He is in purple I am in white

Hey man,

I understand what you're getting at, but I believe it is innacurate to say the bible is a complete fairytale. Some of it is, while other parts are apocryphal. And a great deal of it has proven to be historical (cross referenced with other historical texts).

I also don't mind if you want to tear down Easter, but be better grounded in your "facts" before spouting off, otherwise you will look the fool.

You want to be anti-Bush and anti-neocon? Great, it's a worthy cause (I think). But when someone comes along that makes an attack on something (Bush, Easter, whatever) and claims things that are just incorrect or erroneous, then my respect flies quickly out the window.

If WE want to really make a change in this world, then we must avoid attacking people's cherished Holidays with innacuracies.

If we want to be listened to, then we must first gain their respect.

On the other hand, if you want to dissassemble Easter, go for it. But write an episode of South Park (or whatever) and make it something we can laugh at.

But please do your research first so you don't sound like some anti-neocon-nut who isn't very well educated.

Nuff said,

it is not inaccurate to not believe in giant magic bunnies.

The Bible is a joke. It has talking animals, a man living in a whales belly for three days and people with magic powers (they even have magic duals.) Ever read Leviticus? It is discussing, animal sacrifices, death for basically any kind of crime including swearing at your parents.. It?s homophobic. It supports slavery even in the Ten Commandments it states that slaved don't have to work on the Sabbath (4th commandment) and that one should not covet their neighbors slaves, wife or ox. (10th) then the next chapter Ex 21 you can read about how to beat you slaves and how it is wrong to beat them to death but Ok as long as they get up in a day or two (EX 21:20).

Are you an adult? Do you seriously think a book wear people live to be 700 years old and where all of Egypt is covered in frogs is not a fairy tale just because there is some real history mixed in with it?

I got my "Facts" and I will spout off. You look like a fool for believing in this nonsense. It was a poster for kids and it was funny. Must have hit a nerve. You have no idea how educated I am or how much I know about religion or History or the Neocons.

For the record being anti-neocon has nothing to do with me being an Atheist as I was an atheist before the Neocons even formed.

I think you're a spazz who can not emotionally handle anything undermining the religion you were taught as a child.

Okay, allow me to dissect your rant here. You wrote:

*It has talking animals

In truth, I hadn't realised there were talking animals in the bible. On the other hand, there is a talking bush and even a suggestion that "even the rocks will cry out", or some such.

Here's some questions for you: can you tell me with absolute certainty (and that you have observed through imperical examination) that everything around you (besides humans) is devoid of (even the tiniest amount) of sentience?

*A man living in a whales belly for three days

Have you researched (or asked those guys on Myth Busters) if this was even possible or not?

*People with magic powers (they even have magic duals.)

What do you define as "magical" here? And do you completely disbelieve every incidence of "magic", be it in the bible or otherwise?

* Ever read Levidicus? It is discussing, animal sacrifices, death for basically any kind of crime including swearing at your parents...

The Aztecs sacrified people, so what. Such sacrifice is found in most of the world's ancient cultures.

* (Leviticus) supports slavery - the Ten commandments it states that slaves don't have to work on the Sabbath - then the next chaper Ex 21 you can read about how to beat your slaves and how it is wrong to beat them to death but Ok as long as they get up in a day or two (EX 21:20).

Slavery was abolished (or so most in America believe) a long time ago, unless you count minimum wage.

* Do you seriously think a book wear people live to be 700 years old

Is that really so hard to believe? Are you absolutely certain the average age is not in direct proportion to how many people or now populating the planet?

* and where all of Egypt is covered in frogs is not a fairytale just because there is some real history mixed in with it?

There are more current day accounts of frogs, fish and in fact, many other incidents of critters falling from the sky.

*I got my "Facts" and I will spout off.

Telling people their religion is wrong is not "fact", it's abusive and alienating.

*It was a poster for kids and it was funny.

Sure, it was funny to you, and probably only you. But try to get this straight: you can't be funny by telling people what they believe is wrong.

*Must have hit a nerve.

Right about hitting nerve. Dead wrong assuming it was because of what I believe.

The nerve you hit was how you undermine our freedom of religion in America (which you claim to believe in in your blogs). Or don't you believe in going back to the roots of our constitution and the bill of rights???

The nerve you hit is that you now look like a total hypocrite in in direct opposition to the REAL American values, which our administration has completely disregarded, and which you claim so passionately in your blogs.

My statement to you was NOT about religion, it was about your apparent hypocrisy in posting your anti-easter poster.

*You have no idea how educated I am...

And you have no idea how educated I am either and the mountain of assumptions you made about me only illustrates that fact.

I could really give a flying shit if undermine the religion I was taught as a child.

I care a great deal more about you sabotaging your own damn self with your hypocrisy and contradiction.

My advice: make fewer assumptions and ask more questions and accept criticism wth grace.

You want people to listen to you? Then doing those things will help you achieve that.

By the way, I'm older than you by more than 15 years and am probably equally as educated.

And just for the record, it's quite possible that the story of the guy in the whales belly was DELIBERATELY written as a fairytale to convey moral values.

And lastly: stop taking yourself so godamn seriously!

end of line

The bible has a talking donkey. (Numbers 22-24)

Quote:
---Here's some questions for you: can you tell me with absolute certainty (and that you have observed through imperical examination) that everything around you (besides humans) is devoid of (even the tiniest amount) of sentience?---

No I think many other things are conscious. Animals for one.

Quote:
---man in a whales belly---

I don't have to ask the guys at myth busters for this. This was a common myth taken from Henduism. It is commonsense that a man can not live inside a whale's belly. You have been watching too much pinokio.

Quote:
-------*People with magic powers (they even have magic duals.)

What do you define as "magical" here? And do you completely disbelieve every incidence of "magic", be it in the bible or otherwise?------

That would be when God's boy Moses took on the Egyptian sorccers turning sticks into snakes and what not. And no that kind of magic does not exist.

Quote:
---------* Ever read Levidicus? It is discussing, animal sacrifices, death for basically any kind of crime including swearing at your parents...

The Aztecs sacrified people, so what. Such sacrifice is found in most of the world's ancient cultures.---------

The Aztec human sacrifices is according to Spanish Friars who said the same shit about japan africa and every where else they went. Anyway I think they probably had them but it doesn't matter. See a GOD should be above culture and not demand that animals be sacrificed to itself. It is pointless mumbo jumbo.

Quote:
-----------* (Leviticus) supports slavery - the Ten commandments it states that slaves don't have to work on the Sabbath - then the next chaper Ex 21 you can read about how to beat your slaves and how it is wrong to beat them to death but Ok as long as they get up in a day or two (EX 21:20).

Slavery was abolished (or so most in America believe) a long time ago, unless you count minimum wage.-----------

That is not the point the point is that the religion supported slavery wouldn't a text inspired by God know that slavery was wrong. And for the record America still has slaves in China and many other places.

Quote:
---------------* Do you seriously think a book wear people live to be 700 years old

Is that really so hard to believe? Are you absolutely certain the average age is not in direct proportion to how many people or now populating the planet?-----------

Yes I am absolutely certain. Your cells do not even have that many regenerations. Plus even Hebrews would tell you that they were saying moons or months and not years.

Quote:
--------There are more current day accounts of frogs, fish and in fact, many other incidents of critters falling from the sky-----------

I saw that happen from a wirlwind that went through a swamp and dumped frog on our basketball court. BUt that is no way is the same as covering a country the size of egypt with frogs I doubt even all the frogs on earth could do such a thing.

Dude do you just believe in anything? DId you know I was a repilitan alien from a distant star sent here to destroy religion?

here is his myspace address http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=55828563

Warning, religiousity increases the risk of religious terrorism.

www.anti-neocons.com or www.Rys2sense.com


Ry
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

Ok this was part II

From: Nik
Date: Apr 14, 2006 2:59 AM

The Bible is a joke to you.

Why is your response so negative?

Also, you assume "my" religion (I do not believe in organized religion) is based on these writings, which I have not taken, hook, line, sinker and subscription to Field & Stream. Rather, I look at it with scrutiny, healthy skepticism and a passion for uncovering the truth.

Your way is very alienating.

In a country where we hold dear freedom of speach and religion, it is wise to respect other people's belief system no matter how childish you think they are if you want the same respect in return.

YOU do not need to agree with other people's religion. But don't confuse respect with acceptance.

I have read your blogs and agree with much of your thinking, but now find I disagree with your approach.

Also, I find it to be a high point of maturity to be able to accept mild constructive criticism.

You do not understand this yet, but you are far too polarized to achieve your goals.

Lay aside your petty prejudices and embrace your humanity.

I was merely attempting to point out how you may be alienating people rather than energizing them to your cause, mush like a proslitizing christian on a street corner handing out tracts.

You can't make friends by showing disrespect.

I reverse your own question on you; are you an adult?

Anyway I see you don't like my approach. Well I just con not respect religions that I see are being used to manipulate people into giving up waelth in order to create these billionaore evangelical who support the ZIonist state of Israel.

You did attack my character 3 times in your short post and didn't offer any arguments. The Bible is a joke to me. I think it is better for me to be honnest about that than to pretend I respect it. I think the Bible is actually pretty harmful. I am not trying to convert people, I was simply making fun of them, because I was drunk and a saw a funny Easter poster

From: Nik
Date: Apr 14, 2006 2:28 PM

I'm sure it may appear that I was attacking your character. But it may be hard to avoid that in text if I feel certain things need to be stated regardless.

Anyway, I really am trying to make friends here.

Diving now into this deep discussion; religion is not the only thing that is used to manipulate people. So is capitalism and many other social energetics.

Religion has also done many good things for society and our culture in particular. Without religion, we'd have many more lawless people, whether it is based on truth or not.

Social engineering has been used as a weapon to warp people's minds, but also has it's good uses as well.

Look at it as a blade that can be used to kill, or be used in surgery to save a life.

I want the same social changes that you want. You don't need to respect religions, just individual's beliefs.

At least try to see some of the good religion has done for humankind.

Peace out dude!

Agreed but in my opinion religion has done far more harm than good. I don't like organized religons if people need a religoin they can invent their oewn no need to consintrate the wealth.

You wrote: if people need a religion they can invent their own

Where did you think they came from?

Jesus was probably black. He also might have been an Annunaki.

Put that in your google!

Then I saw the other letter that I first posted. So I said

Jesus was Jewish. I doubt you know anything about the historical figure. And the Jesus story in the bible does not even pick out a real person it is just made up. You showed to me with your last letter that questioned if people could live inside of whale's belly that well frankly you're a fucking idiot.

It is sad that you made it to adulthood that ignorant.
Don't even compare yourself to me.

Warning, religiousity increases the risk of religious terrorism.

www.anti-neocons.com or www.Rys2sense.com


RossCaleb
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

he said: "By the way, I'm older than you by more than 15 years and am probably equally as educated."

that one made me actually laugh out loud

I always thought that if you want to change the world then you have to start with yourself. So if the heads of state want to end terrorism, they should go ahead and kill themselves. - Anti-Flag


Brian
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

The reason the theist calls us negitive is because we challenge their accepted norm. It is not negitive to point out mistakes and flaws in life. A good team player, even in a leadership position will not pull a hierarcy "title" crap when someone lower in ranks says, "hey boss, I think you might be going about that the wrong way".

The theist has no understanding of what the atheist is doing and is frightened by the challenge. So, by fallaciously calling us negitive, it allows them to shut down their brain and demonize the people that are merely trying to get them to think.

I think it is a positive thing to give up Santa belief. I think it is wise to listen to a passanger in a car that is warning you that you are about to run a red light. I also think it is wise to question holy books of all labels and not blindly accept what others tell you or just because it makes you feel good.

This person is the one being negitive, not us. We are trying to provide them with better information. The fact that they admited that they didn't know about magically talking animals says that they have their heads in the sand.

No one in their right mind would blindly accept the claim that a giant teapot bigger than the earth circled Jupiter. So why would they accept a book that makes claims that babies were born without sperm or that dirt instantainiously turned into flesh.

It is completely false that we are out to harm others or forcably end their religion whatever it may be. We simply want people to think about what they claim and what they believe without blindly accepting it.

[b]FREETHOUGHT MEDIA AND INFIDEL GUY BRING YOU LOTS OF NEW RADIO HOSTS THE RATIONAL REDNECK,RATIONAL RESPONDERS, SILKY SHREW, BIBLE GEEK, OLD TIME ATHEIST HOUR AND MUCH MUCH MORE, BUY THEIR SHOWS AND DONATE TO ALL THESE SITES, HELP SPREAD THE VOICE OF RE


neon
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

Wow, that guy is such a crybaby. Doesn't make any sense either.

Annunaki?

:shock:


catculus
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

I thought he had some good things to say, like these:

purple dude wrote:
If WE want to really make a change in this world, then we must avoid attacking people's cherished Holidays with innacuracies.

If we want to be listened to, then we must first gain their respect.

Telling people their religion is wrong is not "fact", it's abusive and alienating.

The nerve you hit was how you undermine our freedom of religion in America (which you claim to believe in in your blogs). Or don't you believe in going back to the roots of our constitution and the bill of rights???

Also, you assume "my" religion (I do not believe in organized religion) is based on these writings, which I have not taken, hook, line, sinker and subscription to Field & Stream. Rather, I look at it with scrutiny, healthy skepticism and a passion for uncovering the truth.

You do not understand this yet, but you are far too polarized to achieve your goals.

I was merely attempting to point out how you may be alienating people rather than energizing them to your cause, mush like a proslitizing christian on a street corner handing out tracts.

It sounds like the guy was trying to help, and I think he had some good advice. I also don't see where he said he was a theist and it certainly didn't sound like he would be the type to be offended by having his views challenged--it even sounded like he would welcome it. All he was saying is that it isn't particularly helpful to any cause to go about accusing people of being idiots and telling them everything they believe is wrong and that's just as bad as the street preacher screaming "You're going to hell!" to everyone.


cbenard
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

catculus wrote:
It sounds like the guy was trying to help, and I think he had some good advice. I also don't see where he said he was a theist and it certainly didn't sound like he would be the type to be offended by having his views challenged--it even sounded like he would welcome it. All he was saying is that it isn't particularly helpful to any cause to go about accusing people of being idiots and telling them everything they believe is wrong and that's just as bad as the street preacher screaming "You're going to hell!" to everyone.

That sounds nice in theory, but a deeper problem lies within their beliefs. If their belief in a magical flying resurrecting jew didn't affect social, economic, and other policies, then it would be fine.

If someone is 40 and they want to believe in Santa, what do I care? It doesn't affect me. If you replace "Santa" with "God" in that sentence, you have what I perceive to be your argument. However, it does affect all of us, theists and non-theists alike. I can't remember Sam Harris' numbers, but it was something like 86% of people think Jesus Christ is probably coming back in their lifetime. That really removes all sense of social responsibility.

If you believed that Jesus was coming back in your lifetime, what in the world would you care about making the world better for the future? You wouldn't, and they don't. The "attack" on Easter isn't an attack at all. It's reminding xians that they have no reason to believe in these kind of fairy tales.

Unlike Santa, the concept and belief in god and jesus affects you and I both, Cat. We do have the right to defend our rights, whether or not they perceive it as an insult. As stated above, they perceive it as an insult to their intelligence because their ill-conceived ideas are part of the collective consciousness of America. It's a shared social more, and it does need to be challenged. We're already heading toward the cliff of a theocracy, and freedom is the distance between church and state (that last part was from a t-shirt).

I support the War on Easter and I support telling xians that they are unintelligent for their ridiculous mytisicm.

"Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up."


catculus
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

cbenard wrote:
If you believed that Jesus was coming back in your lifetime, what in the world would you care about making the world better for the future? You wouldn't, and they don't. The "attack" on Easter isn't an attack at all. It's reminding xians that they have no reason to believe in these kind of fairy tales.

I don't have a problem with the "War on Easter"; however, I thought the guy had some good things to say, and I didn't think it was fair to dismiss him as an idiot theist because he had a few criticisms. Overall, he seemed supportive.

But I don't really think you can change these people (meaning fundamentalists), and all that telling them their beliefs are stupid and illogical does is make atheists look belligerent.

Quote:
We do have the right to defend our rights, whether or not they perceive it as an insult.

Of course we have a right to defend our rights, but so do they. I really don't see how telling someone he or she is an idiot is defending one's rights though.

Quote:
As stated above, they perceive it as an insult to their intelligence because their ill-conceived ideas are part of the collective consciousness of America.

They perceive it as an insult to their intelligence because they are told they are unintelligent.

Quote:
It's a shared social more, and it does need to be challenged. We're already heading toward the cliff of a theocracy, and freedom is the distance between church and state (that last part was from a t-shirt).

Of course it needs to be challenged, however, there are better ways to challenge the narrowing distance between church and state than insulting people. If anything, that just makes their beliefs stronger, and it makes atheists look just as bad as fundamentalists.

Quote:
I support the War on Easter and I support telling xians that they are unintelligent for their ridiculous mytisicm.

I don't support telling anyone they are unintelligent for their beliefs. I do support giving reasons their beliefs don't make any sense; however, telling someone they are unintelligent is just going to make them angry, and it's certainly not going to make them think rationally. I support friendly debates with those who are willing to debate and are willing to listen. I don't think personal attacks are the way to go about it--that's not helping anyone.


cbenard
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War on Easter pissed this guy off

catculus wrote:
I don't support telling anyone they are unintelligent for their beliefs.

I didn't mean I support going up and saying "Hey you, you're stupid for being a christian. See ya later idiot!" What I normally do is just ask them a series of questions that lets them see for themselves that they are unintelligent, which usually provokes them far more than they could ever be by mere insults.

If you start off insulting people, you're correct; they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say. We have to hope, however, that after enough people challenge them to actually think about what they believe without any substantive evidence that they will eventually do so. That is the only way we can effect social change.