For the past half century, the leading atheist in the world was philosopher Anthony Flew. He wrote over 30 philosophical works laying the intellectual groundwork for nonbelief. He debated Christian apologists. He was widely cited in atheist literature and at atheist conventions. What distinguished Flew was how comprehensive and fully-developed his atheist philosophy was. Other philosophers, such as Bertrand Russell and Martin Heidegger, espoused atheist beliefs but those beliefs were incidental to their philosophy. Atheism was Flew's philosophy. HIs works such as Theology and Falsification and The Presumption of Atheism were considered classics of theist thought.
Then Anthony Flew became a believer, and his book There Is A God describes his intellectual journey. Go ahead and order this book, along with my new book, What's So Great About Christianity. Together the two books represent what atheism has always dreaded: historically based, philosophically rich, scientifically fluent, logically reasoned refutations of atheism.
Flew says he has a lifelong commitment to going "where the evidence leads." And now, he calmly says, the evidence leads to theism. His own past writings have been exposed as a "relic." Flew writes, "My discovery of the divine has proceeded on a purely natural level, without any reference to supernatural phenomena...It has had no connection with any of the revealed religions. Nor do I claim to have had any personal experience of God or any experience that may be called supernatural or miraculous. My discovery of the divine has been a pilgrimage of reason and not of faith."
Flew's argument for God combines science and philosophy, and I'll let you discover it for yourself in his book. What I enjoyed was the way he uses simple analogies to expose atheist illogic. For instance, leading atheists seek to prove that the mind is no more than the brain. If the brain is destroyed, they say, we can't use our minds. Therefore there is nothing to minds excerpt circuits and neurons. Flew gives the example of a child raised on a remote island who finds a satellite phone. Voices come out of the machine. The child recognizes these voices as human and is thrilled by the discovery that she has found a way to interact with other humans. Perhaps there is life outside the island! Then the elders of the tribe (if I may embellish Flew's account, let's call them Big Chief Dawkins and Grand Pooh Bah Dennett) and Witch Doctor Pinker) scorn the child and say, "Look, when we damage the instrument, the voices stop. So they're obviously nothing more than sounds produced by the unique combination of metals and circuit boards. Forget about learning about other humans. From all the evidence we have, we are the only living creatures on earth. So go back to making sandcastles." Who are the real dummies here?
Anthony Flew has been banished from the atheist community. Anthologies have been reprinted removing his essays. Atheist websites condemn him as an apostate. (Atheist toleration does not extend to former atheists.) He doesn't even make the case for Christianity, as I do. But Anthony flew out of the atheist cuckoo's nest, leaving anger and confusion among the unbelievers. And now Flew tells us why he rejects atheism. The atheist monopoly on public debate is over: the theists are striking back.


































The last paragraph sounds totaly unbelievable to me.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca
I've been doing a quick run of the internet and it appears that most of the articles claiming Flew is a theist are Christian websites. I found this one website where he claims he's not a theist. Of course, here is the wonderful and oft inaccurate Wiki page. Bottom line is that it appears he's made some contradictory comments.
Disclaimer - I just pulled some stuff quickly off the internet, please don't take any of this as absolute fact.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
The book itself is real...
http://www.amazon.com/There-God-Notorious-Atheist-Changed/dp/0061335290/...
(That's the link I got from Amazon in my inbox this morning. Apparently it is going to be released soon.)
I must be totally ignorant of something but i've never heard of the guy. So i don't see how he's a "leading" atheist. Besides the fact that they seem to be saying "see this atheist sees the truth now why don't all you other idiot athiests" its totally fallcious.
it sells books.
You're not alone, don't worry about it. I only vaguely remember reading something about him. That's why I put that disclaimer on my previous post, lol.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
I've never heard of Flew, and that article is by an idiot who wrote a book about the Democrats called "The Party of Death."
"We don't have to justify the things that don't make any sense anymore."
~former Scientologist Greg Barnes
xenutv.com
They make such a big deal about Flew like he immediately converted to evangelicalism.
He took a baby step and became a Deist. Big Whoop!
D'Souza is his own brand of freak - that's all I can say
Haha.. I know where you got this from..
haha anyway, I will post the same response to this here:
Seems like a sales pitch to me. If one is really interested, or should I say, curious about this, instead of buying the book go get it at the library and don't waste money.
When a theist claims that his book is "historically based, philosophically rich, scientifically fluent," and offers "logically reasoned refutations of atheism." Right off the bat you have to be suspect because when you do end up reading the book, it lacks all those qualities.
An example is Francis Collins' book. He claims to offer scientific proof for the existence of God, but offers, instead, faith based assertions with no strong foundation to his argument. Only that he believes, based on some emotional experience in his life. The appeal to ignorance is amazing....DNA is so complicated it has to be the language of god, is really at the foundation of his argument. I didn't read the book, but he did give a talk at VCU and the only science talked was when he mentioned the human genome project. He did offer his "proof" there. It was then, when I realized...yeah....they guy has lost it.
Theism, first off, is not scientific, plain and simple, there is not ONE single peer reviewed scientific journal that even discusses god, including any from theist scientists who are versed in science, say, as in Francis Collins' case (they write books instead in hopes to fool the ignorant). God does not stand the tests of empirical analysis, only flawed metaphors and strawmen arguments.
So if the claim of proof becomes faith as a philosophical principle (borrowing from Rich Rodriguez), then I have faith that god does NOT exist. So right off the bat, I have destroyed any argument that theists use regarding the existence of god.
Old age and the fear of death, for some at least....leads to self doubt and it's at that point that Pascall's Wager starts to wiggle its way into your thoughts.
But also, as someone else pointed out in the other forum this was in (nonRRS), there are plenty of crazy people in mental assylums that were once normal, should we then dismiss the idea that they were once sane?
Atheists, turning theist does not prove god, plain and simple.
Rational Response Squad homepage
I also have never heard of this guy. Also as previously stated, it sounds like all this guy did was convert to deism. I may not agree with that view, but thats a far cry from what this article seems to be portraying. Also, I have never seen this huge backlash of atheists going "Ew apostate (funny use of the term btw) and we banish you." Maybe he had an argument with someone thats an atheist and that person got pissed and said he/she didn't want to talk to them anymore. Somehow I don't see that as the whole atheist community.
Bottom line, whatever. Also the analogy for the satellite phone is wrong. The phone is a communications device. Its not what originates the voices (thats done on the remote end). However the brain, tho arguably could be considered a communications device, its also where everything starts. That analogy works more if you changed brain to mouth, though obviously it then breaks down as we know the mouth (or hand for writing, etc) isn't by itself.
I do love how theists also run with this concept of the brain. "How could we be concsious of everything we are without God. If it was just the brain, then its all chemicals and neurons and we would be machines." Well one, we are machines, just biomechanical. Also, theres a lot we don't understand about the brain still. Thats ok btw, thats how science works. We start with what we don't know, and we continue to research and test to find answers. Jumping to God, is flat loony.
[/rant]
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Who's Anthony Flew? Oh, never mind, you just told me.
Yeah, I saw that e-mail discussion and got the Amazon new releases e-mail at almost the same time. Maybe it's a sign from god.
Antony Flew Considers God...Sort Of (2005) by Richard Carrier
I'm atheist
Dumbsoso has been pulling this crap for years.
First off, it is nothing new under the sun for people to deconvert or convert from on label to another. And even if we baught this tripe, it still wouldnt constitute magic existing and if Flew said to us himself, "I am now a Christian" Flew would be in the same boat as any Muslim, Jew or Hindu at that point.
Conversion and apologetics are a dime a dozen and still in the end all the emotional appeal and metaphore and psudo science from "I once was" camp, is about as impressive as farting. Been there, done that.
It never occures to idiots like Dumbsoso that Flew(even if we assume he converted to Dumbsoso's god) that he didnt do it out reality, but Flew is subject to the same human phycology that leads people to hold one position at a given time only later to change it?
No, Dumbsoso would have us believe that because intelegent people believe absurd things that those absurd things are real simply because an intelligent person buys garbage.
Flew is not the first attempt and wont be the last. I've run into Dumbsoso before, and his only agenda is propaganda. The accusations about Flew have been around for years.
Dumbsoso just wants to make a name for himself.
Contact all the 08 Presidental candidates and remind them of their Constitutional duty to uphold "no religious test" www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/news_activism/8955
A little of topic, but what the heck...
I don't think Collins claimed to offer scientific proof. The subtitle is A Scientist Presents Evidence For Belief. It's a scientist presenting evidence, not scientific evidence. But this is a moot point, because your spot on about the kind of evidence Collins gives. Here's how Collins describes his conversion from a theist to a Christian:
Need I quote more?
“Lost it” might be a good description. Collins repeatedly contradicts himself. Collins calls DNA “The Language of God,” but when writing about the origins of life Collins says,
But then Collins correctly points out that this is a “God of the gaps” argument, and that “this is not the place for a thoughtful person to wager his faith.” So much for the Language of God.
What's worse is Collins himself uses a “God of the gaps” argument. Collins, following C.S. Lewis, sees the existence of “The Moral Law”, and with it altruism, as proof of God. (And Collins, like Lewis, merely assumes the Moral Law's existence. But, that's besides the point.) Collins then gives a skimpy review of some natural explanations for altruism, but quickly dismisses them. Collins then asks, “If the Law of Human Nature cannot be explained away as cultural artifact or evolutionary by-product, then how can we account for its presence?” God, of course!
Anyway, these are just a few of the issues I found with the book. I should sit down and write an essay at some point. It's truly a book full of muddled thinking.
“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” -- George Orwell
As I've said before, if we were to somehow rule out analogies as a form of argument, at least half of the theistic arguments would need to be tossed our or rewritten.
Which is good, since they're all false analogies anyway.
"What would Jesus do for a Klondike Bar?"
"Faith is a lot like virginity. You can't appreciate how annoying it is until you actually lose it."
He casts Dawkins, Dennett and Pinker as cocksure primitives? I know I refer to Nietzsche a lot, but boy did he call it when he said Christianity is the inversion of reality. I don't need an analogy to equate theologians and witch doctors.
"We don't have to justify the things that don't make any sense anymore."
~former Scientologist Greg Barnes
xenutv.com
D'sousza is full of shit. Leading atheist my ass. D'sousza, the guy who wrote this article, is the same guy who wrote a book that blamed Islamic terrorism on liberalism and feminism because muslims are so traditional that knowing that there is a freedom loving culture on the other side of the planet motivates them to kill themselves to kill us. Its amazing that Amsterdam, Canada, and Norway aren't dust by now.
As David Cross said "I think Osama did 9-11 because of all the military bases we have in Saudi Arabia and our unconditional support for the Saudi royal family and Isreal. You know why I think that? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE FUCKING SAID! ARE WE A NATION OF 6 YEAR OLDS?
According to Richard Carrier:
and:
Furthermore, and I hate to say this without being able to back it up, but I distinctly remember hearing Dawkins say in a Q&A session that he feels like Flew has simply become somewhat senile in his old age. (He was born in 1923!) Maybe someone else can find that.
In the meantime, here's a video you should watch. I see a man who genuinely doesn't know what he believes, and the interviewer (and those who have used this interview for their own purposes) seems to be intent on getting him to advocate his own god.
http://abetterhope.blogspot.com/2007/05/antony-flew-interview-22.html
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. -- H. G. Wells
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. -- H. G. Wells
Everyone should read this. It's from Richard Carrier on Anthony Flew: http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=369
Antony Flew Considers God...Sort Of
Richard CarrierAntony Flew is considering the possibility that there might be a God. Sort of. Flew is one of the most renowned atheists of the 20th century, even making the shortlist of "Contemporary Atheists" at About.com. So if he has changed his mind to any degree, whatever you may think of his reasons, the event itself is certainly newsworthy. After hearing of this, I contacted Antony directly to discuss it, and I thought it fitting to cut short any excessive speculation or exaggeration by writing a brief report on, well, what's going on.
Once upon a time, a rumor hit the internet that Flew had converted to Christianity. The myth appeared in 2001 and popped up again in 2003. On each occasion, Flew refuted the claim personally, standing by his response to its first occasion with his own reply for publication at the Secular Web (Antony Flew, "Sorry to Disappoint, but I'm Still an Atheist!" 2001). So I was quite skeptical the third time around. But this time, things have indeed changed somewhat from where Flew stood in his 2001 article. Antony and I exchanged letters on the issue recently, and what I report here about his current views comes from him directly.
The news of his "conversion" this time came from a number of avenues, but the three I have good information on are an interview with Gary Habermas soon to be published by Philosophia Christi in which Flew appears to depart from his past views about God, a letter Flew wrote to a popular philosophy journal expressing doubts about the ability of science to explain the origin of life ("On Darwinism and Theology," Philosophy Now 47, August/September 2004, p. 22; cf. also Flew's Review of Roy Varghese's The Wonder of the World), and, just recently on national TV (the October 9 episode of "Faith Under Fire"
, J. P. Moreland used Flew's "conversion" as an argument for supernaturalism.
The fact of the matter is: Flew hasn't really decided what to believe. He affirms that he is not a Christian--he is still quite certain that the Gods of Christianity or Islam do not exist, that there is no revealed religion, and definitely no afterlife of any kind (he stands by everything he argued in his 2001 book Merely Mortal: Can You Survive Your Own Death?). But he is increasingly persuaded that some sort of Deity brought about this universe, though it does not intervene in human affairs, nor does it provide any postmortem salvation. He says he has in mind something like the God of Aristotle, a distant, impersonal "prime mover." It might not even be conscious, but a mere force. In formal terms, he regards the existence of this minimal God as a hypothesis that, at present, is perhaps the best explanation for why a universe exists that can produce complex life. But he is still unsure. In fact, he asked that I not directly quote him yet, until he finally composes his new introduction to a final edition of his book God and Philosophy, due out next year. He hasn't completed it yet, precisely because he is still examining the evidence and thinking things over. Anything he says now, could change tomorrow.
I also heard a rumor that Flew claimed in a private letter that the kalam cosmological argument proved the existence of God (see relevant entries in Cosmological Arguments). But he assures me that is not what he believes. He said that, at best, the kalam is an argument for a first cause in the Aristotelian sense, and nothing more--and he maintains that, kalam or not, it is still not logically necessary that the universe had a cause at all, much less a "personal" cause. Flew's tentative, mechanistic Deism is not based on any logical proofs, but solely on physical, scientific evidence, or the lack thereof, and is therefore subject to change with more information--and he confesses he has not been able to keep up with the relevant literature in science and theology, which means we should no longer treat him as an expert on this subject (as Moreland apparently did).
Once Flew gives me permission to quote him I will expand this article with more information about his views and the reasons for them. That will have to wait for when Flew himself has finally mulled things over and come to something like a stable decision about what he thinks is most probable, and that may not happen until the release of his 2005 edition of God and Philosophy. For now, I think his view can best be described as questioning, rather than committed. And there is much to criticize in his rationale even for considering Aristotelian Deism. He is most impressed, he says, by Gerald Schroeder's book The Hidden Face of God: How Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth (2001), but Schroeder (a Jewish theologian and physicist) has been heavily criticized for "fudging" the facts to fit his argument--see Mark Perakh, "Not a Very Big Bang about Genesis" (1999); Victor Stenger, "Flew's Flawed Science"; and my own discussion in "Are the Odds Against the Origin of Life Too Great to Accept?" (2000), as well as my peer-reviewed article "The Argument from Biogenesis," Biology & Philosophy 19.5 (November, 2004), pp. 739-64. Flew points out that he has not yet had time to examine any of the critiques of Schroeder. Nor has he examined any of the literature of the past five or ten years on the science of life's origin, which has more than answered his call for "constructing a naturalistic theory" of the origin of life. This is not to say any particular theory has been proven--rather, there are many viable theories fitting all the available evidence that have yet to be refuted, so Flew cannot maintain (as in his letter to Philosophy Now) that it is "inordinately difficult even to begin to think about" such theories. I have pointed all this out to him, and he is thinking it over.
For now, the story of Antony Flew's change of mind should not be exaggerated. We should wait for him to complete his investigation of the matter and declare a more definite conclusion, before claiming he has "converted," much less to any particular religious view.
Update (December 2004)
Flew has now given me permission to quote him directly. I asked him point blank what he would mean if he ever asserted that "probably God exists," to which he responded (in a letter in his own hand, dated 19 October 2004):
Rather, he would only have in mind "the non-interfering God of the people called Deists--such as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin." Indeed, he remains adamant that "theological propositions can neither be verified nor falsified by experience," exactly as he argued in "Theology and Falsification." Regarding J. P. Moreland using Flew in support of Moreland's own belief in the supernatural, Flew says "my God is not his. His is Swinburne's. Mine is emphatically not good (or evil) or interested in human conduct" and does not perform miracles of any kind. Furthermore, Flew took great care to emphasize repeatedly to me that:
He cites, in fact, the improbability arguments of Schroeder, which I have refuted online, and the entire argument to the impossibility of natural biogenesis I have refuted in Biology & Philosophy.
So what of the claim that Flew was persuaded by the Kalam Cosmological Argument? Flew "cannot recall" writing any letter to Geivett claiming "the kalam cosmological argument is a sound argument" for God but he confesses his memory fails him often now so he can't be sure. Nevertheless, I specifically asked what Antony thought of the Kalam, to which he answered:
Also, regarding another rumor that Flew has been attending Quaker meetings, Antony says "I have, I think, attended Quaker meetings on at least 3 or 4 occasions, and one was at the wedding of a cousin," and thus hardly a religious statement on his part but a family affair. Nevertheless, for him and his family generally, he says "I think the main attraction" of Quakerism has been "the lack of doctrines." On the whole God thing, though, Flew is still examining the articles I sent him, so he may have more to say in the future.
Update (January 2005)
Antony Flew has retracted one of his recent assertions. In a letter to me dated 29 December 2004, Flew concedes:
He blames his error on being "misled" by Richard Dawkins because Dawkins "has never been reported as referring to any promising work on the production of a theory of the development of living matter," even though this is false (e.g., Richard Dawkins and L. D. Hurst, "Evolutionary Chemistry: Life in a Test Tube," Nature 357: pp. 198-199, 21 May 1992) and hardly relevant: it was Flew's responsibility to check the state of the field (there are several books by actual protobiologists published in just the last five years), rather than wait for the chance possibility that one particular evolutionist would write on the subject. Now that he has done what he was supposed to do in the first place, he has retracted his false statement about the current state of protobiological science.
Flew also makes another admission: "I have been mistaught by Gerald Schroeder." He says "it was precisely because he appeared to be so well qualified as a physicist (which I am not) that I was never inclined to question what he said about physics." Apart from his unreasonable plan of trusting a physicist on the subject of biochemistry (after all, the relevant field is biochemistry, not physics--yet it would seem Flew does not recognize the difference), this attitude seems to pervade Flew's method of truthseeking, of looking to a single author for authoritative information and never checking their claims (or, as in the case of Dawkins, presumed lack of claims). As Flew admitted to me, and to Stuart Wavell of the London Times, and Duncan Crary of the Humanist Network News, he has not made any effort to check up on the current state of things in any relevant field (see "No Longer Atheist, Flew Stands by 'Presumption of Atheism'" and "In the Beginning There Was Something"
. Flew has thus abandoned the very standards of inquiry that led the rest of us to atheism. It would seem the only way to God is to jettison responsible scholarship.
Despite all this, Flew has not retracted his belief in God, as far as I can tell. He only writes that "if any unbelievers choose to make a fuss about my recent very modest defection from my previous unbelief in any journal to which I subscribe, then I intend to point out in a letter to the editor that" his new preface to God and Philosophy "points the road to a more radical form of unbelief than" he held originally, which "was a belief that there was no sufficient evidencing reason to believe in the existence of the Gods of either Christianity or Islam," but now "surely there is material here for a new and more fundamental challenge to the very conception of God as an omnipotent spirit," it's just that "I am just too old at the age of nearly 82 to initiate and conduct a major and super-radical controversy about the conceivability of the concept of God as a spirit." This would appear to be his excuse for everything: he won't investigate the evidence because it's too hard. Yet he will declare beliefs in the absence of proper inquiry. Theists would do well to drop the example of Flew. Because his willfully sloppy scholarship can only help to make belief look ridiculous.
Update (March 2006)
During the course of 2005, Flew cut off all correspondence and now refuses to speak to any member of the press. When Matt Donnelly, a reporter for Science and Theology News, asked him for permission to read and quote his letters to me, Flew refused, and insisted that even his phone conversations with Donnelly not be used. A friend and eyewitness whom I trust reported to me that he and another prominent secular humanist spoke to Flew in private during his recent visit to New York for the 25th Anniversary conference of the Council for Secular Humanism in October of 2005. They found him to be philosophically incoherent. He affirmed his belief in an uncaring, uninvolved, unconscious (yes, unconscious) Jeffersonian Deity, but despite half an hour of questioning as to why, he could not give any specific reason for this belief.
In the meantime, Flew wrote "My 'Conversion'" for the Autumn 2005 issue of Think (pp. 75-84), the only article Flew himself has ever written about his conversion. This article is so confused and unclear that in it he fails to affirm belief in any God and actually suggests he is still an atheist. Flew claims to set the record straight about his, as he himself puts it, "putative conversion from atheism to some form of revealed theistic religion." Because of the massive press attention, "it seemed to me," Flew writes, "that there was a need ... for me to explain myself" (p. 75). Yet nowhere in the entire nine pages of the article does he explain himself.
Flew starts with a few autobiographical paragraphs explaining that he was an "atheist" in the same sense that someone would be "apolitical," so he didn't believe in God simply for lack of evidence, not because God's nonexistence could be demonstrated. He explains that because of the nuance of this distinction, after the first