Does Time Exist?!

sapphen
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Does Time Exist?!

...this is another fun post meant only to provoke thought. we all realize there is a lasp in events but is that really enough to prove that time exists or is it an illusion. what is "time" in other aspects other than a unit of measure? what are your ideas and what are some scientific "experiments" we could conduct.

was time created (by it's self or creator depending on your beliefs) or did time already exist? does distance or other things effect time? is time travel possible?! is time only perceived by matter? what things are timeless... such as the rules that govern our lives, molecules, other things scientific. what if time did not exist?

what actually is the past, present and future? it is constantly moving... is time alive? what things does time effect... such as gravity, the universe, humans, energy, etc?

this is a really open question on the subject of time... massage your logical and philosophical sides, share your thoughts or rants.

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.


Jacob Cordingley
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Time is the passing of

Time is the passing of events. To say anything more complex confuses the **** out of me.

 

[MOD EDIT - removed curse word per Kill 'Em With Kindness Forum rules] 


sapphen
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does time ever feel like it

does time ever feel like it speeds up or slow down?

how would you describe your perspective on "time"? 

what if someone wanted proof that time existed, how would you prove to them that it did.  (kind of like the experiment proving a photo to a blind person from another thread). 

 

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.


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For an inhabitant of the

For an inhabitant of the universe, it is easy to see that time exists - we act, we react, as does the environment.  We could not imagine life without time; it is essential to who we are.

Now, I would argue that the universe itself is timeless.  The Universe itself never truely changes - it's contents are always moving and changing, but the whole remains the same, without, I would argue, beginning or end. 

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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Time is a concept by which

Time is a concept by which we measure change. Without change time does not exist.

Quote:
was time created (by it's self or creator depending on your beliefs) or did time already exist?

 Time has always existed. If there ever was a time when nothing at all was changing then this moment wouldn't be possible.


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sapphen wrote: what

sapphen wrote:

what actually is the past, present and future? it is constantly moving... is time alive?  what things does time effect... such as gravity, the universe, humans, energy, etc? 

Past - Anything before the exact present.

Present - Right NOW! Right NOW! NOW! NOW!

Future - Anything after the present.

Time effects a human in the sense that it allows a way to strutcure a schedule that can be agreed on and verified by yourself and others (work at 9 a.m., dinner with whoever at 7p.m. etc).

Although Time is pretty arbitrary in itself. It works for us on Earth, as it is based on the Earth's rotation ( as in it works out easily for us, an even 24hr 00 min 00 sec a day). But on any other planet our time scale wouldn't work, as in day or night would not be a give away for a rough estimate of the time.

So if you agree that Time is nothing more than a measurement system we created, why would it effect gravity, the universe, energy etc?

In conclusion to this segment of the question one could replace "time" with the "alphabet". What things does the alphabet effect... such as gravity, the universe, humans, energy, etc? Since both are rather abitrary, just ways to keep communication and society running.

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts


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time... time is how

time...

time is how earthlings' tiney little monkey brains deal with the 4th dimention. We cannot see the whole thing at once, being but 3 dimentional creatures, so we get it one slice at a time. 

for example, if a square encounters a square (two 2d objects) they would regard themselves as lines (segments) (1d objects) we higher-dimentional humans see the squares as squares because we can look down from the 3rd dimention.

so suppose a 4th dimentional creature could look down upon us 3d monkey men, whah would they see? our whole life in one streach. like a big centipede with babies at one end  old age at the other.

so... time is ... perception. 

and i suppose that could be  said of a lot of things.

 >hope that was coherent

>>first post btw. hi board.


sapphen
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welcome eat, it's nice to

welcome eat, it's nice to meet you.  very interesting perspective, thank you for responding.

good posts all around... keep them coming.  don't be afraid to get off topic a little if you want.

does change have to have time to occur,  or is time just a mesurement of it's duration?  sometimes in highly anticipated situations time could go by really slowly, by ones perspective.  same with the phrase, "time flies by when you're having fun"!  it is interseting that time does not move more consistantly.

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.


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Cosmologically speaking,

Cosmologically speaking, there is one thing: space-time.

Space is the three dimensional aspect of location, time is the fourth. It's best to view time, or more specifically space-time, as locations in a four coordinate system.

The important caveate being that we can go back to the same physical three dimensional space with relative ease, as far as we know though, we cannot do this in the fourth dimension of time.

In a very real sense, time is a location, not a when, we simply process it as such in our day to day lives.

 

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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eatpeople

eatpeople wrote:

time...

time is how earthlings' tiney little monkey brains deal with the 4th dimention. We cannot see the whole thing at once, being but 3 dimentional creatures, so we get it one slice at a time. 

for example, if a square encounters a square (two 2d objects) they would regard themselves as lines (segments) (1d objects) we higher-dimentional humans see the squares as squares because we can look down from the 3rd dimention.

so suppose a 4th dimentional creature could look down upon us 3d monkey men, whah would they see? our whole life in one streach. like a big centipede with babies at one end  old age at the other.

so... time is ... perception. 

and i suppose that could be  said of a lot of things.

 >hope that was coherent

>>first post btw. hi board.

 I'm well aware of the weakness of the human brain. I cannot cog other dimensions. I only find it possible to believe there are three, not 11! I'm sure I'm totally wrong, but I am only an ape descendent and so I'm entitled to be.


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eatpeople

eatpeople wrote:

time...

time is how earthlings' tiney little monkey brains deal with the 4th dimention. We cannot see the whole thing at once, being but 3 dimentional creatures, so we get it one slice at a time.

for example, if a square encounters a square (two 2d objects) they would regard themselves as lines (segments) (1d objects) we higher-dimentional humans see the squares as squares because we can look down from the 3rd dimention.

so suppose a 4th dimentional creature could look down upon us 3d monkey men, whah would they see? our whole life in one streach. like a big centipede with babies at one end old age at the other.

so... time is ... perception.

and i suppose that could be said of a lot of things.

>hope that was coherent

>>first post btw. hi board.


I've often thought about it this way. A different kind of dimension that doesn't intersect like the other 3. Rather it's a dimension like the 3 we know of, and they travel through it. Sort of like we travel through the 3 we know. But since it doesn't intersect we can't see it.
(Edited to make it more understandable.)


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it's very simple, Time is

it's very simple, Time is just a measurement, if an object moves we can measure how long it moves but if we don't have time the object wont stop, the object will always move, as will every single thing in existence.

The concept that time can be navigated through another dimension is silly and academic. first of there is no such thing as the 2nd dimension, nor do we have any reason to believe in the 4th. there isn't really a 3rd either, it's just our own little concept we've developed to describe something just is.


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Maybe it's to much time

Maybe it's to much time spent in 3d modeling programs. Creating things in 3d and then trying to make them move, but nothing happens until I click play. Can't help but think it works something like that in the real world.


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Years ago, I read a really

Years ago, I read a really good book called "The Arrow of Time" (I think that was the title), that discussed the various "arrows" of time used in physics. The Thermodynamic arrow is points in the direction in which entropy increases. The Cosmological arrow points in the direction in which the universe is expanding. It was pretty neat.

What is time? I remember reading somewhere that "Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once." Seriously though, I have no good quick answer on that personally. I think YN5 gave some good info in his post.

(BTW, I've found that quote attributed or mis-attributed to a number of people. The most likely appears to be the physicist Ray Cummings.) 

sapphen wrote:

does time ever feel like it speeds up or slow down?

how would you describe your perspective on "time"?

I've had some moments of "slow" time. Usually right before a moment of impact after a poor decision. The first time that happened that I can remember was when I was riding my bike and went up a curb (in AZ, most curbs are rounded) at the wrong angle and got air and some rotational momentum. Everything slowed down so I could consider the error of my ways as I rotated to the right and drifted down, towards the sidewalk. Everything sped back up as soon as I hit though.

For me, it seems like "now" is pretty long, but the "past" beyond a few months ago gets compressed and seems like not much time at all. I think that fits with my (and likely many other fellow humans) tendency to remember general impressions about things. It all gets mushed together and once in a while specifics bubble to the surface. 

-Triften 


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On this topic, I stumbled

On this topic, I stumbled upon this awhile ago. I did what it told me to do, and it worked for me, freaking me out for several days in the process. Now, I know the description is bullshit, but give it a try anyways.

http://tinyurl.com/fq96w

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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I tend to view time as a

I tend to view time as a whole. I see it as a loaf of sliced bread that already wholly exists, but  we are only capable of viewing it slice by slice. Obviously that's a bit of a clumsy analogy, but I hope the point gets across.

Every particle of matter that exists in the Universe exists, through time, as a line. Different particles cross lines with each other to build shapes in time, but the lines never really disappear. As a result, everything that exists in the universe is connected through these particle-lines. The computer that I am sitting at is actually an extension of the Big Bang, as am I, and as a result, we are related.  When I look at a person, I don't see a person, but rather a two-dimensional splice of particle-lines that are constantly interacting.  We're all just slices of bread.


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Time is like a cable car in

Time is like a cable car in San Fran. That's about as deep as I think it would get, to be honest. It goes in one way, if it pauses, no one would know. There would be no way to test this as time would just... stop. The moment it started again, assuming it starts again, we wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

I don't know anything about the whole speed time relationship besides knowing that the faster you move, the slower time is, which does lead to a few interesting questions.

Does time slow down comparitively on planets that spin faster than Earth? What about move faster as a whole around the sun (not revolutions around the sun, but instead actual speed through space)? Theoretically, if this were true, then there could be life on planets that are billions of years old to us while only being a few generations old to them.

That's about it, though.


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Since sapphen said this is

Since sapphen said this is supposed to be a "fun" post, I just absolutely must post my four word answer:

Billy Pilgrim wrote:
And so it goes.

Sorry. I just couldn't help myself. Smiling

 

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The argument that time is a

The argument that time is a measure of change and doesn't really exist is a fun argument.

I think relativity counters is thou. For the phrase "When you move faster (aproaching the speed of light) time slows down" to make sense there has to be a dimension called time. I don't think "time slows down" can be replaced with "the rate of change decreases"  because in order for a coherent understanding you will always end up with space (where "you move faster&quotEye-wink and time (where "you change slower&quotEye-wink.

A mystic is someone who wants to understand the universe, but is too lazy to study physics.


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heres a fun little

heres a fun little question. your going to have to suspend belief for this for a moment.

 

suppose you had the ability to move and affect the entire universe and everything in it. if you moved all the stars, planets, galaxies, asteroids, evrything in space, and everything on earth to the exact position it was in on jan 1st 400 ad/ce this includes bringing everyone back to life and removing anything that wasnt there. in short you rereate the exact conditions of EVERYTHING from that day. would it still be july 22nd 2007, or would it actually in effect be jan 1st 400? why or why not?


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For everything inside the

For everything inside the universe, the time will be jan 1st 400 ad. As any measure of time will indicate that. But in order to have this ability you must transcend the universe (I think) and you could tell the difference.

Now here is another fun question. If you wait 1600 years would you get to exactly the same configuration of the universe as today, or would quantum uncertainty would mess things up?

A mystic is someone who wants to understand the universe, but is too lazy to study physics.


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AtheistInWonderland

AtheistInWonderland wrote:

Time is a concept by which we measure change. Without change time does not exist.

Quote:
was time created (by it's self or creator depending on your beliefs) or did time already exist?

Time has always existed. If there ever was a time when nothing at all was changing then this moment wouldn't be possible.

 

Time is relative change between at least two points in 3 space. If all the points in a system change in exactly the same manner, then there is no realtive change, hence no time. So there could have no time until something broke the symmetry of whatever uniform changes may have taken place.   


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Welcome, fall_child. When

Welcome, fall_child.

When you get a minute, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversation, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself. 

 

 

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Froggy618157725
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sapphen wrote: does time

sapphen wrote:

does time ever feel like it speeds up or slow down?

how would you describe your perspective on "time"?

what if someone wanted proof that time existed, how would you prove to them that it did. (kind of like the experiment proving a photo to a blind person from another thread).

 

My perspective of time is most interesting when I'm half asleep.

When I'm in a certain state, somewhere inbetween being awake and asleep, my perception of time gets really messed up. I'll check the clock between what could've, at least, been 20 minutes, and see only seconds have passed. Or visa versa. I've sat in bed after waking up far to early, dazed and confused, and feeling that time was an illusion and wondering why I didn't just get to the time I needed to be up faster. I'm willing to call that the raving thoughts of a hardly conscious mind.

When I'm in a certain state of being half asleep, not only do I sometimes confuse the immediate past and present, but the immediate future as well. I've found myself complaining about noises that hadn't happened yet. Though in that state of confusion, it would be impossible to tell if it was just some malfunction in perception. I've had a few, though, where I was thoroughly awake before the thing I mistakenly remembered happened, so that casts some doubts on my doubts.

 

Time is weird. 

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Froggy618157725 wrote: When

Froggy618157725 wrote:
When I'm in a certain state of being half asleep, not only do I sometimes confuse the immediate past and present, but the immediate future as well. I've found myself complaining about noises that hadn't happened yet. Though in that state of confusion, it would be impossible to tell if it was just some malfunction in perception. I've had a few, though, where I was thoroughly awake before the thing I mistakenly remembered happened, so that casts some doubts on my doubts.

 

Time is weird.

I think this can be attributed to actually passing in to sleep and thinking you didn't and vise versa. This is a skill that many people who practice lucid dreaming develop and can maintain... that is, time passing by slowly by your mind thinking that you are asleep while you're actually concious.

I don't want to go into detail about it as I'll probably be wrong about it and I could talk for ages about lucid dreaming. 


Froggy618157725
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CrimsonEdge wrote: I think

CrimsonEdge wrote:

I think this can be attributed to actually passing in to sleep and thinking you didn't and vise versa. This is a skill that many people who practice lucid dreaming develop and can maintain... that is, time passing by slowly by your mind thinking that you are asleep while you're actually concious.

I don't want to go into detail about it as I'll probably be wrong about it and I could talk for ages about lucid dreaming.

Lucid dreaming is teh pwnage. I've only managed to have 1.5 lucid dreams, unfortunately. That would explain the first part. I certainly wouldn't be surprised by that.

But it still leaves the problem of sometimes sensing things before I should when I'm in that state. One of the more convincing cases happened after school, on the bus ride home. I was half asleep, and I guess in a daydream, and had a very vivid image of a cell phone appear in my head. I started to get confused, because it was so realistic, and I thought it was ringing, but I wasn't hearing anything. I snapped out of it when someone's cell phone rang a few seats back. I asked to see the phone after the conversation, so a good 2 minutes or so had passed where I knew I was awake (unless life's a dream Eye-wink ), and the phone was identical to the one I saw, with several distinguishing marks.

 

Has anyone else here ever had a dream that predicted the future? All the ones I've had that did that followed a specific format, and I'm wondering if it's the same for others. I think it'd be a good step closer to getting an understanding of it.

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I've gotta hit these in

I've gotta hit these in reverse. 

richard955 wrote:

Now here is another fun question. If you wait 1600 years would you get to exactly the same configuration of the universe as today, or would quantum uncertainty would mess things up?

Yes, quantum uncertainty would mess things up because. . .

richard955 wrote:

For everything inside the universe, the time will be jan 1st 400 ad. As any measure of time will indicate that. But in order to have this ability you must transcend the universe (I think) and you could tell the difference.

 

Even though it seems to be January 1st, 400 AD, the quanta of the dimension which we call time has still "elapsed." The universe would then be on a different quantum branch, as many-worlds interpretation would call it, and non-causal events such as radioactivity would resume being just as random as they were before - only with different results.


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