Simple Theist & Eloise debate the pursuit of perfection.

Eloise
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Simple Theist & Eloise debate the pursuit of perfection.

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Eloise wrote:

pariahjane wrote:

Simple Theist and Eloise - perhaps you two should open your own thread with your debate. It becomes difficult to stay on topic when you're interrupted with another debate.

 

I apologise to Mark. I didn't mean to interrupt, I posted with the intention of giving valid answer to the letter in the OP, nobody has to agree with me but it is my opinion that you can more effectively answer a theist in their own language, so to speak. Indoctrination is so widespread in religion that many don't even know they aren't following their own gospel word but argue it anyway and I believe it's helpful to argue it back which is what I intended in my original post. When you halve the ignorance, I believe, you halve the problem at least, atheists may believe it's irrational to not attack faith itself as a precept, but nevertheless I think it's practical to argue within the faith for all purposes when dealing with indoctrination which is, essentially, brainwashing.

You quote Calvin like everyone follows him. If your going to insist on a passage meaning something because someone said it does, then you need to quote an early church father, instead of a protestant that lived 1,500 years after Christainity was established. As a non-follow of Christianity, you have no basis for why someone should listen to your view of the bible over other Chrstians. I appologize Mark, but I am not Brainwashed, I don't accept anything without proof. (as evidence, I have no beliefs about the rapture--If I was brainwashed, you would think that someone would have given me some info on that)YOu've quoted a version of the bible that agrees with you, and ignored the ones that don't. Quoting whatever version agrees with you, and quoting passages out of context (as most atheist seem to enjoy doing) does nothing to help you argue with a Christian. Insisting someone is brainwashed is also something that isn't going to help you any. (Perhaps if your field of study happened to be brainwashing, you might have a leg to stand on). I have no clue why theist is below your name.

My advice, Mark, if you want to argue with a Chrsitian, make sure that your views are at least supported by the majority of Christians.

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Eloise
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"If your going to insist on

"If your going to insist on a passage meaning something because someone said it does, then you need to quote an early church father, instead of a protestant that lived 1,500 years after Christainity was established."

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Where am I insisting on a passage meaning something because someone said it does? Do you mean this:

     "Jesus asserts it as Law"

If that's what you mean then who in your church history has more authority than Jesus? do tell.

 "Insisting someone is brainwashed is also something that isn't going to help you any."

Again I don't follow, where have I insisted that someone is brainwashed? If you mean this:

"indoctrination which is, essentially, brainwashing."

if so you'd better get out your dictionary and check the entry for 'brainwashing', where you will see indoctrination listed as the meaning. 

 I have insisted that human depravity is contradicted by NT text, and I have insisted that people are obviously ignorant of this. I also imply openly that those people are probably indoctrinated into calvinist (or like) theology which equates to brainwashing. 

 finally, if you really wish it I will give you 50 passages from the Christian bible which directly instruct the pursuit of perfection for you to debunk one by one. Your call.

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simple theist
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I don't deny that the bible

I don't deny that the bible says that you should pursue perfection, only that a Christian is perfect and only that the bible makes the claim that a Christian is perfect.

I take your brainwashing comment to mean that I follow everything someone says without thinking about it myself, which is untrue. I don't belong to any denomination. 


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For the sake of

For the sake of readability, here is a tutorial on the quote function.