Christians, how do you feel about people who commit the unforgivable sin? {Edit - Moved to KEWK}

Sodium Pentothal
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Christians, how do you feel about people who commit the unforgivable sin? {Edit - Moved to KEWK}

If they can no longer be saved:

 

1. Are they still worth being friends with?

2. What would be your purpose in hanging out with them?

3. What is their purpose in life now that they can no longer be saved?

 

Thanks! Smiling

"If I don't think something can be explained conventionally, it must be magic. And magic comes from God!" -everyday religious person


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1.No go to Hell. 2. There

1.No go to Hell.

2. There isn't one go to Hell.

 

3. To go to Hell.

 

 

Your welcome! Smiling

 

 

Was that Christian enough? 


Sodium Pentothal
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Mods, can we please move

Mods, can we please move this thread to "Kill 'Em With Kindness?"  I'm hoping I'd get more responses there.  Thanks!  Smiling

"If I don't think something can be explained conventionally, it must be magic. And magic comes from God!" -everyday religious person


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I would bet most would say

I would bet most would say they didn't commit the unforgiveable sin because *insert ad hoc reasoning here*. Just an idea.


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Come on Xians, answer!

Come on Xians, answer!


zarathustra
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I expect a barrage of

I expect a barrage of explanations of how it isn't in fact unforgivable.  That's already been regurgitated more times than I can count.

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My thoughts

That's a cute little picture you have there zarathustra. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything. Anyhow, to get to the point, I think that there isn't really much of a chance that a friend would have commited the unforgivable sin. I am an undecided so far (as in atheist/theist), just so you have an idea of where I'm coming from. None of the people who did the "rational response challenge" committed the unforgivable sin. Your leader took the verse out of context. The unforgivable sin is to attribute the actions of God to satan. Remember, in Mark the Pharisees were saying that Jesus had a demon in him, and that he was using the demon to heal people, cast out demons, etc. So basically they were saying that He was using satan's power to do His miracles, and thus attributing God's actions unto satan. Of course, to commit the unforgivable sin, you'd have to believe in Jesus, satan, and God, meaning that an atheist couldn't really do it ... So those who really commit the unforgivable sin know that without a doubt God is real and yet hate Him, mock Him, and despise Him so utterly that they say that what He did/does are really satan's actions. As a side note, I'd say that the people who did the "challenge" reminded me more of a bunch of rebellious teenagers than anything else. Trust me, things like that don't help your cause.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
That's a cute little picture you have there zarathustra. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything. Anyhow, to get to the point, I think that there isn't really much of a chance that a friend would have commited the unforgivable sin. I am an undecided so far (as in atheist/theist), just so you have an idea of where I'm coming from. None of the people who did the "rational response challenge" committed the unforgivable sin. Your leader took the verse out of context. The unforgivable sin is to attribute the actions of God to satan. Remember, in Mark the Pharisees were saying that Jesus had a demon in him, and that he was using the demon to heal people, cast out demons, etc. So basically they were saying that He was using satan's power to do His miracles, and thus attributing God's actions unto satan. Of course, to commit the unforgivable sin, you'd have to believe in Jesus, satan, and God, meaning that an atheist couldn't really do it ... So those who really commit the unforgivable sin know that without a doubt God is real and yet hate Him, mock Him, and despise Him so utterly that they say that what He did/does are really satan's actions. As a side note, I'd say that the people who did the "challenge" reminded me more of a bunch of rebellious teenagers than anything else. Trust me, things like that don't help your cause.
This doesn't sound like the generally accepted Christian interpretation.  How can a Christian commit an unforgivable sin if he/she is already saved?  Christian doctrine states that once you're saved, you're saved forever. For a Christian to fall and be saved again would require Jesus to sacrifice himself over and over again each time.

"If I don't think something can be explained conventionally, it must be magic. And magic comes from God!" -everyday religious person


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Welcome, Master Jedi

Welcome, Master Jedi Dan!

When you get a minute, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversation, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself. 

(By the way, love the avatar.  I'm a Mac girl, myself!)

 

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It may not be the "typical"

It may not be the "typical" understanding, but it's what the passage in Mark means.  It is a hard passage to understand.  I struggled with its meaning for a while before catching on.  But to address your question, do you realize how far gone someone would have to be to attribute god's actions to satan?  They'd have to be, well, satanic.  Even more god-hating than the leaders of this website.  A Christian couldn't go that far.  And if someone left the Christian faith and eventually became that way and did it, you'd have to ask, was the person ever really a Christian in the first place?

I'd also like to answer the question in the first post.  I'm no Bible-blasting Christian, but I'm going to answer them this way:

1. Yes, they are still a real person, so I'd try and hang out with them

2. Try to encourage them, help them live a good life, because it's all they have left

3. I don't really have an answer to this one, if I was a Christian I might say to show people that there really are supernatural forces, that there really is a higher power, maybe to wake up a few people to this realization

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

It may not be the "typical" understanding, but it's what the passage in Mark means. It is a hard passage to understand. I struggled with its meaning for a while before catching on. But to address your question, do you realize how far gone someone would have to be to attribute god's actions to satan? They'd have to be, well, satanic. Even more god-hating than the leaders of this website. A Christian couldn't go that far. And if someone left the Christian faith and eventually became that way and did it, you'd have to ask, was the person ever really a Christian in the first place?

I don't want to argue which interpretation of a passage is correct, but even you seem to say that only non-Christians can commit the unforgivable sin. You ask "if someone left the Christian faith and eventually became that way and did it, you'd have to ask, was the person ever really a Christian in the first place?" This person was either a Christian or not! If he was a Christian, you've yet to answer my question, "How can a Christian commit an unforgivable sin if he/she is already saved?" If you're saying he's not Christian, I will take that as concession that only non-Christians can commit this sin.

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
2. Try to encourage them, help them live a good life, because it's all they have left
What is a "good" life according your beliefs (i.e. the Bible)?

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
3. I don't really have an answer to this one, if I was a Christian I might say to show people that there really are supernatural forces, that there really is a higher power, maybe to wake up a few people to this realization
I don't understand this. Are you saying if you were the person who committed this sin and also happen to be Christian? If so, you've yet to prove that it's not contradictory for a Christian to be able to commit the unforgivable sin.

"If I don't think something can be explained conventionally, it must be magic. And magic comes from God!" -everyday religious person


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First of all to be guilty

First of all to be guilty of the unforgivable sin, you must actually believe in God, hence you must believe in the Father, The Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. (you are by definition non-christian because you reject Christ as Lord)

 So since Satan (or a demon) is the best example of such a being, No I would not be friends with him. It would be scary being friends with someone with the morals of Satan.


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simple theist wrote: First

simple theist wrote:

First of all to be guilty of the unforgivable sin, you must actually believe in God, hence you must believe in the Father, The Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. (you are by definition non-christian because you reject Christ as Lord)

 

I used to believe in God.  I was on fire for Jesus!  I TRULY believed!  I tasted the heavenly gift!  Now I walked away.  Not just backslidden into sin.  I simply don't believe any of it.

I can never be saved, right?  I have blasphemied against all 3 members of the trinity and no longer believe any of it.


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Andyy wrote: simple theist

Andyy wrote:
simple theist wrote:

First of all to be guilty of the unforgivable sin, you must actually believe in God, hence you must believe in the Father, The Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. (you are by definition non-christian because you reject Christ as Lord)

 

I used to believe in God. I was on fire for Jesus! I TRULY believed! I tasted the heavenly gift! Now I walked away. Not just backslidden into sin. I simply don't believe any of it.

I can never be saved, right? I have blasphemied against all 3 members of the trinity and no longer believe any of it.

YOu can still be saved. You said it yourself, you USED to believe in God. To be guilty of the unforgivable sin, you must BELIEVE in God.


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@ Sodium Pentothal

@ Sodium Pentothal

 

For the meaning of the passage, why don't you read it and see what you think? (there are plenty of online Bibles) I could probably give you a few pointers on understanding it.

A "good" life according to my beliefs would be to grow up, maybe go to college, get married, have kids, and have a steady job with a good profession. I dunno, does that sound good to you?

Ok. I was saying that if I was a Christian and if I had a friend who had committed the unforgivable sin. A Christian cannot commit the unforgivable sin, because they cannot lose their salvation (according to the Bible). And besides, a Christian is supposed to love god with all their heart, soul, and mind. Commiting the unforgivable sin isn't just saying, "I believe that god's actions are satans!" It's truly believing it, without a doubt, fully convinced that god is evil. It's something that a Christian couldn't do.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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simple theist wrote: Andyy

simple theist wrote:
Andyy wrote:
simple theist wrote:

First of all to be guilty of the unforgivable sin, you must actually believe in God, hence you must believe in the Father, The Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. (you are by definition non-christian because you reject Christ as Lord)

 

I used to believe in God. I was on fire for Jesus! I TRULY believed! I tasted the heavenly gift! Now I walked away. Not just backslidden into sin. I simply don't believe any of it.

I can never be saved, right? I have blasphemied against all 3 members of the trinity and no longer believe any of it.

YOu can still be saved. You said it yourself, you USED to believe in God. To be guilty of the unforgivable sin, you must BELIEVE in God.

 

Why is it so hard to commit one sin but easy to commit sins like lust, lying ect. the only reason we can't commit the unforgivable sin is because you don't want us to.


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@ Dave_G Sure you can...

@ Dave_G

Sure you can... according to the Bible all you have to do is believe in god, jesus, and satan and continually attribute god's actions to satan.  It's hard to do because according to the Bible, you'd have to be even more god-hating than the leaders of atheism.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
That's a cute little picture you have there zarathustra. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything. Anyhow, to get to the point, I think that there isn't really much of a chance that a friend would have commited the unforgivable sin. I am an undecided so far (as in atheist/theist), just so you have an idea of where I'm coming from. None of the people who did the "rational response challenge" committed the unforgivable sin. Your leader took the verse out of context. The unforgivable sin is to attribute the actions of God to satan. Remember, in Mark the Pharisees were saying that Jesus had a demon in him, and that he was using the demon to heal people, cast out demons, etc. So basically they were saying that He was using satan's power to do His miracles, and thus attributing God's actions unto satan. Of course, to commit the unforgivable sin, you'd have to believe in Jesus, satan, and God, meaning that an atheist couldn't really do it ... So those who really commit the unforgivable sin know that without a doubt God is real and yet hate Him, mock Him, and despise Him so utterly that they say that what He did/does are really satan's actions. As a side note, I'd say that the people who did the "challenge" reminded me more of a bunch of rebellious teenagers than anything else. Trust me, things like that don't help your cause.

Excuse me for a moment...

                         

How many times are we going to hear this argument????

Yeah, Master Jedi Dan, you haven't been here.  You don't know how many times we've already heard everything in your post.  It isn't your fault I feel like pounding my head against the wall.

Now I need some pain killers... 

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Sodium Pentothal
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Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
For the meaning of the passage, why don't you read it and see what you think? (there are plenty of online Bibles) I could probably give you a few pointers on understanding it.
I have! Also did some pre-emptive reading on arguments and counter-arguments too! Smiling

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
A "good" life according to my beliefs would be to grow up, maybe go to college, get married, have kids, and have a steady job with a good profession. I dunno, does that sound good to you?
That's arguably a "good" life by secular standards, but I think what I was trying to get at is that by Christian standards, that is not. Unless you are worshipping God and trying to bring glory unto Him, nothing is good but selfishly evil. Or something like that lol.

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
Ok. I was saying that if I was a Christian and if I had a friend who had committed the unforgivable sin. A Christian cannot commit the unforgivable sin, because they cannot lose their salvation (according to the Bible). And besides, a Christian is supposed to love god with all their heart, soul, and mind. Commiting the unforgivable sin isn't just saying, "I believe that god's actions are satans!" It's truly believing it, without a doubt, fully convinced that god is evil. It's something that a Christian couldn't do.
I agree that the Bible says that once you're a Christian, you can not lose your salvation. But this still doesn't offer any thoughts on how that person whom committed the unforgivable sin has any purpose in life (according to Christian standards). The way I understand it now is that it seems that person is forever doomed to Hell and nothing he/she could do will change that, hence purposeless. I suppose he/she then can adopt a secular purpose, but given that the Christian God is real, it's still ultimately purposeless.

"If I don't think something can be explained conventionally, it must be magic. And magic comes from God!" -everyday religious person


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I suppose he/she then can

I suppose he/she then can adopt a secular purpose, but given that the Christian God is real, it's still ultimately purposeless.

Isn't this what most of the people on this website have done?  (i.e. adopted a secular purpose).  What then is the point of life for all the atheists here, if I may ask?

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


Sodium Pentothal
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Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Quote:
I suppose he/she then can adopt a secular purpose, but given that the Christian God is real, it's still ultimately purposeless.

Isn't this what most of the people on this website have done? (i.e. adopted a secular purpose). What then is the point of life for all the atheists here, if I may ask?

Yes, but each of our secular purposes may differ from individual to individual. I believe there's even a recent thread about it somewhere here. Please note that I qualified "still ultimately purposeless" with "given that the Christian God is real." The point I was getting at is that the Christian religion allows for non-believers to be forever doomed to Hell (according the the Bible), and while they are alive, they are living a purposeless (and probably depressing) life (again, according to the Bible). It also follows then that there is ultimately nothing a Christian can do to help such a person.

"If I don't think something can be explained conventionally, it must be magic. And magic comes from God!" -everyday religious person


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/Mod hat on/ This is the

/Mod hat on/

This is the Kill 'em with Kindness forum.  There are no ad hominem attacks allowed in this forum.  A link to the complete rules is provided on the left hand side of the screen. 

/Mod hat off/