The Logic of me eating Chicken

Kenny5682
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The Logic of me eating Chicken

When I came home from work tonight I ate a peice of chicken.  I took my hand which is used to grab things and bent my arm so I could place it into my mouth.  My mouth just happens to have teeth and saliva which are both used to break down food.  My tongue is also there to taste the food.  After my taste buds told me my wife still hasn't attempted to poison me, and my teeth and saliva were done breaking down the food, I swallowed it using muscles in my throat.  Right now that chicken is going through a complicated digestive process.  Some time soon, that digestive process will finish.  My body will discard the waste and keep what it needs.

I just think it's kind of cool how my hand has a purpose.  It grabs stuff.  I would have had a real hard time putting that chicken into my mouth if it weren't for a nifty little gadget we call an "elbow."  Sure I've seen some college pics on MySpace where some guys actually manage to drink a beer without bending their arm; but other than that it's unheard of.  Then comes the whole chewing and swallowing deal.  My teeth and saliva worked simultaniously so that my stomache wouldn't have to do so much work as I swallowed.  As I began to swallow, my lips created an air tight seal to make it easier for me.

Would it be so far out to say that something probably designed me that way?  Or would it make more sense for me to say that that all happened by chance?

 I have the strangest urge to take my son's Lego blocks, put them into the clothes drier, and turn it on.  Perhaps in a billion years those blocks would form a house with a door, windows, a triangular roof, steps on the inside, and also several rooms as well.  If that would happen in a billion years, I promise you not even a day later would that house fall apart.  Simply because there is no intelligent life guiding where the blocks go.

 So overall my question is, is it really that crazy to believe something created us?  That something designed us?


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Design

Design huh?

You should read sites like this


deludedgod
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Would it be so far out to

Would it be so far out to say that something probably designed me that way?  Or would it make more sense for me to say that that all happened by chance?

That's an argument from Incredulity. Also a ridiculous false dichotomy. The evolution of the hands, of appendages and organs are very well document. Your dichotomy is chance or design. But there is another alternative. Controlled natural process. Evolution is the precise opposite of chance, making this an argumentum ad ignorantium. Three logical fallacies in two sentences.

  I have the strangest urge to take my son's Lego blocks, put them into the clothes drier, and turn it on.  Perhaps in a billion years those blocks would form a house with a door, windows, a triangular roof, steps on the inside, and also several rooms as well.  If that would happen in a billion years, I promise you not even a day later would that house fall apart.  Simply because there is no intelligent life guiding where the blocks go.

False dichomoty again. And false analogous process. 

  So overall my question is, is it really that crazy to believe something created us?  That something designed us?

It's a deus ex machina fallacy: offering an intractable to solve an intractable (except that the problem isn't intractable, just the solution). Even if it was a problem (it isn't. Life did not come about by chance. Evolution is probably the most carefully controlled natural process in existence) the solution merely poses the same problem. You offer a complex entity (ie maximal intelligence) as a solution to the existence of complex entities (life forms) because you are in awe of the complexity of said life forms. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Then what designed the

Then what designed the designer?

Before you answer "the designer is eternal", remember this is the very argument you are asking us. If your designer is so well made and suited to his task, then something must have designed him, and something must have designed that thing, and so on, and so on. 


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Kenny5682 wrote: When I

Kenny5682 wrote:

When I came home from work tonight I ate a peice of chicken.

A chicken, which had been plucked, skinned and cooked.  An intelligent designer would have provided an animal without feathers or unsavory skin, and no microbes, requiring a thorough cooking process to prevent illness (how many people have fallen ill or died from uncooked chicken?).

 

Kenny5682 wrote:
My mouth just happens to have teeth and saliva which are both used to break down food.

A secondary result of this is that food gets stuck between the teeth, and plaque forms on the surface of the teeth, allowing for gum disease and tooth decay, unless hygeinic measures are taken (such as flossing and brushing).  An intelligent designer would not have provided oral architecture susceptible to such damage.

Kenny5682 wrote:

My tongue is also there to taste the food. After my taste buds told me my wife still hasn't attempted to poison me, ...

Not all poisons have taste.  An intelligent designer would have accounted for this.

Kenny5682 wrote:

...and my teeth and saliva were done breaking down the food, I swallowed it using muscles in my throat.

You also use your mouth and throat to breathe.  If the food had got caught in your throat, you would have begun choking and possibly died.  An intelligent designer would have provided two separate passageways for breathing and eating. 

 

Kenny5682 wrote:

Right now that chicken is going through a complicated digestive process. Some time soon, that digestive process will finish. My body will discard the waste and keep what it needs.

You are warm-blooded, so you are constantly burning energy to maintain your body's temperature.  In several hours, your body will have expended the energy provided by that chicken, and you will be hungry again.  An intelligent designer would have made you cold-blooded, where one chicken meal would last you for weeks on end.

Kenny5682 wrote:
I just think it's kind of cool how my hand has a purpose.

I think it's kind of un-cool how the appendix has no purpose, other than to occasionally threaten someone's life, requiring surgical removal.

Kenny5682 wrote:

Would it be so far out to say that something probably designed me that way? Or would it make more sense for me to say that that all happened by chance?

If the human body was designed, the designer was an idiot.

It would make no sense to say that happened by chance.  If not for evolution, your hands and elbows would be more conditioned to swinging from trees, and your teeth would be more conditioned for eating fruit rather than meat. 

 

Kenny5682 wrote:

So overall my question is, is it really that crazy to believe something created us? That something designed us?

Maybe, maybe not.  But if this "design" is the best it can do, it certainly isn't worthy of respect, much less worship. 

There are no theists on operating tables.

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Can you think of a better

Can you think of a better way to eat chicken or do you think the way we do it is the ultimate in perfection? If not, the kind of designer you're talking about must be considered a pretty bad designer. Do you really want to defend the design of a bad designer?

Besides, why do we have to eat at all? If I were the designer, I would have left out the need to eat altogether. Again we are forced to conclude that the designer was pretty bad at what he was up to.

Then there is the other possibility: all the problems in the actual way we are designed have nothing whatsoever to do with a designer. If this is correct, then we don't have to be stuck with defending the poor designs of an incompetent designer.


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Needing fuel, I

Needing fuel, I understand.  A car needs fuel.  Even a computer needs an energy source.

Of course, an intelligent designer would have fixed it so we would have no need for fuel.  

I've just never understood why a designer would include the need for sleep. 

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Susan wrote: I've just

Susan wrote:
I've just never understood why a designer would include the need for sleep.

Well how else would God communicate with people if they never dreamed?!?! 

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Gregfl<<<<<sick of these

Gregfl<<<<<sick of these 7th grade already refuted arguments copied off of a apologetic websites.


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JeremiahSmith wrote: Susan

JeremiahSmith wrote:

Susan wrote:
I've just never understood why a designer would include the need for sleep.

Well how else would God communicate with people if they never dreamed?!?!

I stand corrected!  Laughing

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gregfl

gregfl wrote:

Gregfl<<<<<sick of these 7th grade already refuted arguments copied off of a apologetic websites.

I understand.

When I saw the thread title, I had one of those, "Uh-oh, here we go again" moments, then clicked on it anyway.

Apparently, American education isn't doing its job, so we are one group that will have to pick up the slack.  In the meantime, we can learn some new things, too, I suppose.

I was "educated" using fundamentalist Christian "science" texts, so I never learned anything true about evolution until I was an adult.  Now I find it fascinating.  

Learning can be fun.  We just have to get the folks who already know everything to join in on the fun. Eye-wink 

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  Tell us Kenny what would

 

Tell us Kenny what would a chair look like if our knees bent the other way?

I suggest you put down your childrens book of fairy tales and take the effort to learn some real science. There's no substitute for knowledge.

Ever "hang-ten" on the bow of a nuclear powered aircraft carrier at 30+ knots?


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Everyone please be sure to

Everyone please be sure to read the rules of this forum.  There is a link on the left side of this page coincidentally called "Rules".

Please, please be at your best behavior in this forum and watch the sarcasm.

 

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Susan wrote: Everyone

Susan wrote:

Everyone please be sure to read the rules of this forum. There is a link on the left side of this page coincidentally called "Rules".

Please, please be at your best behavior in this forum and watch the sarcasm.

 

I think this is a hard one on these forums.  It's a bit of a jaw dropper to post an elaborate post like this without even taking a second out to go and find out what the answer might be.

Asking questions is one thing, but this is an overly rehashed statement that I think people just get tired of seeing since it doesn't show any signs of an honest attempt to learn nor an honest attempt at debate (debaters are usually educated on the responses of their opponents).

The responses here are more than enough so I'm not even going to try to get into an evolutionairy argument here. 


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Kenny5682 wrote:When I

Kenny5682 wrote:

When I came home from work tonight I ate a peice of chicken. I took my hand which is used to grab things and bent my arm so I could place it into my mouth. My mouth just happens to have teeth and saliva which are both used to break down food. My tongue is also there to taste the food. After my taste buds told me my wife still hasn't attempted to poison me, and my teeth and saliva were done breaking down the food, I swallowed it using muscles in my throat. Right now that chicken is going through a complicated digestive process. Some time soon, that digestive process will finish. My body will discard the waste and keep what it needs.

And at the same time, a million Africans are starving to death, becuase people must eat to survive.

You've managed to leave out the rest of humanity in your equation.

You're begging the question that it's a good thing to eat. What about a world where everyone gleans their energy directly from the sun?

What about a world where energy intake isn't even required?

You've made the Panglossian error. 

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Kenny5682 wrote: So overall

Kenny5682 wrote:
So overall my question is, is it really that crazy to believe something created us? That something designed us?

Yes.  Next. 

Who needs God when you have Chopin?


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zarathustra I would like to

zarathustra I would like to add on top of the "How many have died by uncooked chicken". "How many have died from pufferfish."

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Kenny5682 wrote: -snip- I

Kenny5682 wrote:

-snip-

I just think it's kind of cool how my hand has a purpose. It grabs stuff. I would have had a real hard time putting that chicken into my mouth if it weren't for a nifty little gadget we call an "elbow." Sure I've seen some college pics on MySpace where some guys actually manage to drink a beer without bending their arm; but other than that it's unheard of. Then comes the whole chewing and swallowing deal. My teeth and saliva worked simultaniously so that my stomache wouldn't have to do so much work as I swallowed. As I began to swallow, my lips created an air tight seal to make it easier for me.

Would it be so far out to say that something probably designed me that way? Or would it make more sense for me to say that that all happened by chance?

Yes to both questions.

First, a caveat: I am not an evolutionary biologist (nor do I play one on TV), so I may make errors here, but I will try my best to have solid reasoning.

Grabbing stuff is the result of having hands, we don't have hands in order to grab things; your hand does not have a purpose, it is a "solution" to a "problem". Our ancestors that had some dexterous, flexible way to manipulate their environment had more children than those that did not. Eating chicken does not require hands (just ask my very, very naughty dog) or elbows (see: pirhana); it just takes more effort without them. Heck, even grabbing things doesn't require hands, just biological structures that can be pressed together.

Kenny5682 wrote:

I have the strangest urge to take my son's Lego blocks, put them into the clothes drier, and turn it on. Perhaps in a billion years those blocks would form a house with a door, windows, a triangular roof, steps on the inside, and also several rooms as well. If that would happen in a billion years, I promise you not even a day later would that house fall apart. Simply because there is no intelligent life guiding where the blocks go.

So overall my question is, is it really that crazy to believe something created us? That something designed us?

Crazy? No. Irrational? Yes.

Here's the thing: one could calculate what the odds are of your legogenesis process actually resulting in a given shape. I can't do this with any sort of precision off the top of my head, but it can be done. If the odds are greater than 0, you'll get your house (and a really big utility bill). Along the way, you'll get other non-house things that are just as cool (cubes, snowflakes, helices, etc.). If the odds are zero, it may be because the process you describe may disallow any sort of complex shape from occurring (Lego bonds may very well not be able to resist colliding with the walls of the dryer). All that means is the experiment would have to be repeated when conditions change (dryer heats up, duplo instead of lego, etc).

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"I have the strangest urge

"I have the strangest urge to take my son's Lego blocks, put them into the clothes drier, and turn it on.  Perhaps in a billion years those blocks would form a house with a door, windows, a triangular roof, steps on the inside, and also several rooms as well."

 LOL!!!

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.