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Evolutionist Christian?
Posted on: September 11, 2007 - 8:30am
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Evolutionist Christian?
Hi, I am currently in debate with a Christian who believes in evolution. He believes that the book of genesis is metaphorical. So it’s impossible to show him the contradictions between genesis and science. I was wondering if you guys had any ideas that might help me out.
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But if he is an evolutionist, then what precisely are you debating with him? The existence of God?
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Yes, he believes that god created the means for evolution. But he believes in the rest of the bible to be litteral, just not genesis.
I'd be curious to know precisely when (and how) on the evolutionary timeline our "sinful nature" developed. Did sin start with Homo sapiens, or had Australopithecus afarensis already incurred the lord's wrath? Did jesus come to save the Neanderthals as well, even though they were already extinct when he showed up?
Does your erudite friend find it at all counterintuitive that god in its infinite intelligence should permit life to develop in painstakingly incremental steps over billions of years, and only to become concerned with the affairs of one species in the last few thousand years? Do he see anything hypocritical about god punishing humans for theirs failings? The evolutioary process has wrought more suffering than anything humanity has done in the brief time it has been on this planet.
You might also ask him by what methodology he can dismiss genesis as metaphor, but not the story of jesus, or any other part of the bible. How does he know that the metaphors don't go past deuteronymy?
There are no theists on operating tables.
What I have always wondered about those Christians who take Genesis as metaphor is how they deal with Jesus' lineage being traced back to a metaphor, Adam. If one of your ancestors is a metaphor, wouldn't that make you fictitious?
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
I know the Catholic Church officially supports evolution. I don't want to speak on their behalf as I don't completely understand their belief system. but I don't see how you can believe that Genisis is metaphorical and believe that the Jesuss story is literal. The whole argument for Jesus's sacrifice was to undo the original sin committed by Adam and Eve. If the Garden of Eden story was metaphore, why would a literal Jesus be necessary?
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca
The hardcore creationist site Answers In Genesis has several FAQs on the subject of why Christians can't accept Genesis as metaphorical. Here's one of them:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/compromise.asp
Basically, though, the argument boils down to two major points:
1. Once you admit that one part of the Bible is metaphoric (or in any way not literally true) you open the door to questioning of *any* part of the bible as not completely true--including those parts that dictate particular moral and political positions.
2. Genesis is the story of the fall of humankind, and the Gospels are the story of the redemption of humankind. If the story of the fall is not completely true, then the redemption is no longer necessary. Without the need for redemption, Christianity has no basis for any claim to authority.
Also AiG has references to Bible quotes from books *later than Genesis* that demonstrate how death cannot have existed before the fall. Unless these books are also metaphoric (again opening the door to all kinds of questioning of the Bible) then the Genesis story must also be literally true.
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert