Why do people think Christians want to end all Stem Cell research?

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Why do people think Christians want to end all Stem Cell research?

I've seen this used throughout the site. However, Christians are only opposed to embryonic stem cell research.

 

What about others such as adult stem cells? I have yet to meet a Christian that wants to end those. 


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Many Christians are opposed

Many Christians are opposed to ESC (Embryonic Stem Cells) because the harvesting of them requires the destruction of the embryo from which they are harvested. I personally find this position rather odd since the foetus' used for ESC is one which was already aborted, so it might as well be used for some good.

So, as an alternative, they support umbilical cord stem cell, haemopoitic stem cells and adult stem cells. I personally don't care between the three so long as stem cell resarchers get the stem cells they need, and unfortunately, the American block on ESC is a major block to the desperate need for stem cells. They are the most potent stem cells.

 

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It's because they feel that

It's because they feel that an unborn embryo is a child.  It's like abortion to them to use an embryo for research and then discard it.  They claim that "man has high value", so therefore we shouldn't kill anyone before they are born.  This is contradictory in a number of ways.  First of all, doesn't the unborn baby just go to heaven (according to them)?  Secondly, I don't see much value in their belief that man was formed from dirt and is irrefutably wretched and evil.

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deludedgod wrote: Many

deludedgod wrote:

Many Christians are opposed to ESC (Embryonic Stem Cells) because the harvesting of them requires the destruction of the embryo from which they are harvested. I personally find this position rather odd since the foetus' used for ESC is one which was already aborted, so it might as well be used for some good.

So, as an alternative, they support umbilical cord stem cell, haemopoitic stem cells and adult stem cells. I personally don't care between the three so long as stem cell resarchers get the stem cells they need, and unfortunately, the American block on ESC is a major block to the desperate need for stem cells. They are the most potent stem cells.

 

 

 I heard they are working on a method to replicate adult stem cells on demand so they don't need to harvest them, they can just 'farm' them.

 

 

Quote:

It's because they feel that an unborn embryo is a child.  It's like abortion to them to use an embryo for research and then discard it.  They claim that "man has high value", so therefore we shouldn't kill anyone before they are born.  This is contradictory in a number of ways.  First of all, doesn't the unborn baby just go to heaven (according to them)?  Secondly, I don't see much value in their belief that man was formed from dirt and is irrefutably wretched and evil.

 

Did you even read the topic? What about the other forms of stem cell research?


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Cpt_Pineapple, How many

Cpt_Pineapple,

How many christians do you speak to on the subject?

Of those, how many even understand the premise behind it?

Despite the work in partial harvesting, the christians that I speak to are still operating under the same allegedly 'moral' arguments against it. They have NO CLUE as to the latest developments.

The same goes with preachers.

 

THAT'S WHY! 

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Sorry to double post. The

Sorry to double post.

The 'farming' is cloning the stem cell and I think you'll be able to see why they don't like anything that says 'cloning'.

Hwang Ku Suk's(sp?) data discrepencies set back the research advocates a decade in my opinion. He was working on the cloning.

 

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darth_josh

darth_josh wrote:

Cpt_Pineapple,

How many christians do you speak to on the subject?

Of those, how many even understand the premise behind it?

Despite the work in partial harvesting, the christians that I speak to are still operating under the same allegedly 'moral' arguments against it. They have NO CLUE as to the latest developments.

The same goes with preachers.

 

THAT'S WHY!

 

You do realize there are other methods of stem cell extraction? That's my point. Christians aren't against those. 

 

Quote:

Sorry to double post.

The 'farming' is cloning the stem cell and I think you'll be able to see why they don't like anything that says 'cloning'.

Hwang Ku Suk's(sp?) data discrepencies set back the research advocates a decade in my opinion. He was working on the cloning

 

According to wikipedia he's a Buddhist (Former Christian). I don't see how this has to do with the issue.

 

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
darth_josh wrote:

Cpt_Pineapple,

How many christians do you speak to on the subject?

Of those, how many even understand the premise behind it?

Despite the work in partial harvesting, the christians that I speak to are still operating under the same allegedly 'moral' arguments against it. They have NO CLUE as to the latest developments.

The same goes with preachers.

 

THAT'S WHY!

 

You do realize there are other methods of stem cell extraction? That's my point. Christians aren't against those.

Yes, but those don't offer anywhere near as much potential as "embryonic" stem cells, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem. You make it sound like scientists are just being lazy or have some craving for embryos. Deludedgod mentioned it already, and there's plenty of info on the subject out there.

 

Quote:

Sorry to double post.

The 'farming' is cloning the stem cell and I think you'll be able to see why they don't like anything that says 'cloning'.

Hwang Ku Suk's(sp?) data discrepencies set back the research advocates a decade in my opinion. He was working on the cloning

 

According to wikipedia he's a Buddhist (Former Christian). I don't see how this has to do with the issue.

Uhm, it has nothing to do with theism. He's the guy that claimed that he successfully cloned some cells, only to find out that he was lying. He was making some progress, but everything had to be thrown out and now they have to start over. I kind of doubt that christians are going to give cloning, of any sort, a free pass, though (as Deludedgod mentioned).


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

You do realize there are other methods of stem cell extraction? That's my point. Christians aren't against those.

Yes, but those don't offer anywhere near as much potential as "embryonic" stem cells, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem. You make it sound like scientists are just being lazy or have some craving for embryos. Deludedgod mentioned it already, and there's plenty of info on the subject out there.

 

My point is many people think that Christians want to end ALL stem cell research. I am demostrating how this is not the case. 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Quote:

Sorry to double post.

The 'farming' is cloning the stem cell and I think you'll be able to see why they don't like anything that says 'cloning'.

Hwang Ku Suk's(sp?) data discrepencies set back the research advocates a decade in my opinion. He was working on the cloning

 

Quote:
According to wikipedia he's a Buddhist (Former Christian). I don't see how this has to do with the issue.
Uhm, it has nothing to do with theism. He's the guy that claimed that he successfully cloned some cells, only to find out that he was lying. He was making some progress, but everything had to be thrown out and now they have to start over. I kind of doubt that christians are going to give cloning, of any sort, a free pass, though (as Deludedgod mentioned).

Deludedgod didn't mention cloning Darth Josh did. I don't see any Christian objections to stem cell cloning, it is human cloning they are against. 


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    Cpt Pineapple the

    Cpt Pineapple the problem lies in the ignorance of those that are usually against it, now not every single christian is against stem cell research, however a large majority are ignorant of new forms of stem cells as well, when you mention cloning stem cells, normally (this is from my experience) they automatically assume your going to start cloning humans. Even though there has been an good advance on using adult stem cells and other forms of stem cells the best stem cells so far are still embryotic, since the embryos used are from aborted cells i don't see the problem using them, however this objection from most christian (not all) is that we are killing babies for this cells it shouldn't be done, however the embryos are not killed for their stem cells. Again part of the ignorance of the masses.
    You seem better informed than i would say 80 percent of those objecting to stem cell research, probably even more than all of them,  however this objection to stem cell research is leaving the US behind in this field, China has had sever advances in this field, especially when it comes to spinal cord injuries, as i have met a few people that have gone to china for this procedure. However how far behind the US is, i really don't know.


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As has already been brought

As has already been brought up, embryonic stell research shows the most potential.  Right-wing Christians have lied about the following:

  • Adult stem cell research has as much potential as embryonic stem cell research (it doesn't)
  • There are enough established lines of embryonic stem cells, so we don't have to "kill" any more embryos (there aren't)
This is the problem we have with Christians.  They will distort information to get their way, denying potentially life-saving cures to millions of people who are already here.

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Cpt_pineapple wrote: I

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I don't see any Christian objections to stem cell cloning, it is human cloning they are against.

and most don't know the difference because, in attempt to crush something that they deem morally unacceptable, the more outspoken and fanatical members of the religious right gloss over the fine details and simply target the research as a whole. i have no doubt that many christians would be fine with stem cell cloning as opposed to human cloning if they actually knew there was a difference. but if you walk into a small town in Kansas and ask the folks at the diner what they think about stem cell research, i can practically guarantee you that they will say their opposed because it's baby murder and  cloning, both of which are morally wrong to them. they have no idea that the issue is any deeper than that. i know because these are my neighbors. and idiots like Bush are no help, since he's too ignorant to see any issue of any kind in any way other than black and white.

 

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Can the stem cells from

Can the stem cells from frozen fertilized eggs be used?

I'm still confused about how people can fuss and fume about stem cell research, but yet frozen "leftovers" from folks who no longer need/want them are destroyed every day.

 

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Iruka Naminori wrote:

Iruka Naminori wrote:

As has already been brought up, embryonic stell research shows the most potential. Right-wing Christians have lied about the following:

  • Adult stem cell research has as much potential as embryonic stem cell research (it doesn't)
  • There are enough established lines of embryonic stem cells, so we don't have to "kill" any more embryos (there aren't)

This is the problem we have with Christians. They will distort information to get their way, denying potentially life-saving cures to millions of people who are already here.

 

http://www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/asc-refs.pdf

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/stem-cells.html

Adult stem cell research can still help people.

 

[edit:shortened a long link]


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I can't seem to fix the

I can't seem to fix the links can a mod help?


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I never realized people did

I never realized people did think Christians are against all stem cell research. I've always understood them to, dogmatically and speciafically, be against embryonic stem cell research.

Here is a little stem cell Q&A that briefly answers some of the common questions about the issue.

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Cpt_Pineapple

Cpt_Pineapple wrote:
Deludedgod didn't mention cloning Darth Josh did. I don't see any Christian objections to stem cell cloning, it is human cloning they are against.

If they weren't objecting then wouldn't it be fully-funded?

You admit that you don't see any christian objections. I'm telling you that there are.

Pat Robertson

Falwell (when alive)

Many others in the same genre including that stupid bitch in Ohio. (D. Bishop)

Ask every single televangelist if you want. These people have their television shows because they are supported by a great many people. Thus, the thoughts(or lack thereof) of the ministers are the thoughts of the congregations in open public.

Likewise, if they come right out and say they're for it all of a sudden then their congregations won't be there anymore.

Why is this escaping you?

Yes. There are many other sources for stem cells, but no one field is even fully-funded. I know this because I have a VERY good friend in Louisville that works with cadaverous stem cells.

Suk's lying is ranked third in my mind regarding detriments to the research. He had SOME success, but because he lied about the amount of success then it cancelled out all of his other work. First is religious fundamentalism(Shit. Theism in general). Second is ignorance regarding the ideas and applications of each type of stem cell therapy.

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Basically because they see

Basically because they see anything human as equivalent, even if one is incapable of thought (fetus, embryo, brain dead, etc.)

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darth_josh

darth_josh wrote:

Cpt_Pineapple wrote:
Deludedgod didn't mention cloning Darth Josh did. I don't see any Christian objections to stem cell cloning, it is human cloning they are against.

If they weren't objecting then wouldn't it be fully-funded?

You admit that you don't see any christian objections. I'm telling you that there are.

Pat Robertson

Falwell (when alive)

Many others in the same genre including that stupid bitch in Ohio. (D. Bishop)

Ask every single televangelist if you want. These people have their television shows because they are supported by a great many people. Thus, the thoughts(or lack thereof) of the ministers are the thoughts of the congregations in open public.

Likewise, if they come right out and say they're for it all of a sudden then their congregations won't be there anymore.

Why is this escaping you?

 

Yes. There are many other sources for stem cells, but no one field is even fully-funded. I know this because I have a VERY good friend in Louisville that works with cadaverous stem cells.

 

Same 'ol generalizing of Christians. If some asswipe Christian believes it than they all do. 

 As for funding, it's Non-Sequiter. NASA isn't fully funded, does that mean Christians hate space? The FBI isn't fully funded does that mean Christians love terrorism? The Department of Motor Vehicles isn't fully funded does that mean Christians hate cars?

 

Quote:


Suk's lying is ranked third in my mind regarding detriments to the research. He had SOME success, but because he lied about the amount of success then it cancelled out all of his other work. First is religious fundamentalism(Shit. Theism in general). Second is ignorance regarding the ideas and applications of each type of stem cell therapy.

 

Every area of science sees people lying about results. Physics had mono-poles, and cold fusion. Does that mean Christians hate mono-poles and cold fusion? 


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You made the non sequitur

You made the non sequitur by switching the order around.

Whatever, Cpt.

I could walk out on the street right now and take a poll and arrive at the same numbers the other polls have. (Probably worse in my little area)

Your analogies of the other poorly-funded programs HAVE NO RELEVANCE with regard to this issue.

Keep trying to find another reason why one of the most important breakthroughs of the past 20 years is being fought tooth and nail. 

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darth_josh wrote: You made

darth_josh wrote:

You made the non sequitur by switching the order around.

Whatever, Cpt.

I could walk out on the street right now and take a poll and arrive at the same numbers the other polls have. (Probably worse in my little area)

  I can walk to the streets and find plenty of Christians that are for adult stem cell researchI also know some atheists against embroynic stem cell research so I don't see the point of your statement.

 

Quote:
 

Your analogies of the other poorly-funded programs HAVE NO RELEVANCE with regard to this issue.

Keep trying to find another reason why one of the most important breakthroughs of the past 20 years is being fought tooth and nail.

 

 

Here's an article from Canada's Ministry of Health

 

Research into adult stem cells has the potential to eliminate ethical concerns about experimentation or transplantation of ES cells.

 

Canada supports stem cell research and is 77% Christian and the leaders are Christian. 

 


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Good for Canada. A closer

Good for Canada. A closer place for our scientists to go to then.

I can break it down to american christianity being the primary cause for the idiocy in this country concerning stem cell research funding.

 

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darth_josh wrote: Good for

darth_josh wrote:

Good for Canada. A closer place for our scientists to go to then.

I can break it down to american christianity being the primary cause for the idiocy in this country concerning stem cell research funding.

 

 

 I mentioned Canada to prove my point. Not all Christians are against stem cell research. That was the whole point of this topic.


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Congratulations on your

Congratulations on your 1,000th post, Cpt.

 

So what exactly do you want to be said?

Are you wanting us to ignore the christians that ARE causing the problems?

Are you wanting us to ignore the money given to the church by these liberal christians that is spent attempting to thwart stem cell research?

Are you wanting us to forget WHY stem cell research is so far behind and so maligned in the public eye?

Are you seeking forgiveness for the christians that jumped off of the bandwagon after learning about things like partial harvesting too late to make a difference?

Are you wanting us to allow those who spoke out in the past against stem cell therapy to get the treatment if they need it?

Are you expecting us to simply forgive and forget that this is only ONE example of religion's hindrance to human progress?

Fuck that! I can't do that. Even forgetting one time is a 'sin' if you ask me.

I'll make you a deal. Get these christians who support stem cell research to fork over their titheing money to the foundations set up to provide the missing funding for the research and we'll talk.

Tell all of these fuckers that want to disassociate themselves with their ideological counterparts that it is time to help humanity fix the things their prayers can't.

Why are you looking for excuses for all of the bad things we've shown you?

It seems like an awful lot of rationalizations to hold onto a faith that a relatively intelligent, informed person like youself shouldn't even have.

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darth_josh wrote:

Congratulations on your 1,000th post, Cpt.

I just noticed that. 

 

Quote:
 

So what exactly do you want to be said?

Are you wanting us to ignore the christians that ARE causing the problems?

Are you wanting us to ignore the money given to the church by these liberal christians that is spent attempting to thwart stem cell research?

Are you wanting us to forget WHY stem cell research is so far behind and so maligned in the public eye?

Are you seeking forgiveness for the christians that jumped off of the bandwagon after learning about things like partial harvesting too late to make a difference?

Are you wanting us to allow those who spoke out in the past against stem cell therapy to get the treatment if they need it?

Are you expecting us to simply forgive and forget that this is only ONE example of religion's hindrance to human progress?

Fuck that! I can't do that. Even forgetting one time is a 'sin' if you ask me.

 The topic was really aimed at people who think Christians want to end all research. The other point is that Christians can support the other methods. I'm not the one basing my perception of Christians on the actions of Fred Phelps. Some do, hence this topic.

 

 

 

Quote:

I'll make you a deal. Get these christians who support stem cell research to fork over their titheing money to the foundations set up to provide the missing funding for the research and we'll talk.

Tell all of these fuckers that want to disassociate themselves with their ideological counterparts that it is time to help humanity fix the things their prayers can't.

 

Many Christians are supporting stem cells. That is my point.

 

Quote:
 

Why are you looking for excuses for all of the bad things we've shown you?

I'm just showing that not all Christians are like that, in fact I think the majority support adult stem cell. Move to Canada and you will see where I'm coming from (both figurtivly and literally).

 

 

Quote:

It seems like an awful lot of rationalizations to hold onto a faith that a relatively intelligent, informed person like youself shouldn't even have.

relatively intelligent? >___> 


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Aborted fetuses? I was under

Aborted fetuses? I was under the impression, at the prompting of Sam Harris and other sources, that embryonic stem cell research dealt with unused frozen blastocysts that are already headed for disposal.
I've never heard of opposition to adult stem cell research, so I don't know if that's the right question. Whether Christians pose an obstruction hinges on whether there is a distinction between the potential of adult and embryonic stem cells for research. I'd heard the latter held greater promise.
In any event, the worst I could say about either source, fetal or an earlier level of development, is that it poses a level of unseemliness to those choosing to stage this as a moral drama. Stem cell research doesn't change the fate of those embryos; no one is being hurt for the purpose of this research. It's probably the most benevolent thing that could happen to an unused embryo in that it has the potential to help people who are suffering.
If embryonic stem cell research isn't the motive of embryo disposal or abortion, and it has an even slightly greater potential than adult stem cell research to help people, standing in its way is immoral.


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The amniotic fluid has even

The amniotic fluid has even been found to have some stem cells in it.

That poses a 'moral' issue for the ignorant as well.

 

 

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I dont know whether all

I dont know whether all christians oppose all stem research, or only some christians oppose some sorts of stem research. However, I can see why both might be true: stem cell research is taking us closer and closer to be able to replicate the body, or its parts, and is viewed as a threat to religious position simply because its desired results would be a working proof that "god" isn't needed to create life; that humans themselves become "gods" and thus there is less place for the religion in the society. That means that there's less place to the religious people in the society as well.


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Less place for religion in

Less place for religion in our lives anyway. The idle speculation it poses is a waste of brain cycles; a total dead end. Any prohibition it places on actual progress of any degree in any field is immoral.


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Mike Seth wrote: I dont

Mike Seth wrote:
I dont know whether all christians oppose all stem research, or only some christians oppose some sorts of stem research. However, I can see why both might be true: stem cell research is taking us closer and closer to be able to replicate the body, or its parts, and is viewed as a threat to religious position simply because its desired results would be a working proof that "god" isn't needed to create life; that humans themselves become "gods" and thus there is less place for the religion in the society. That means that there's less place to the religious people in the society as well.

 

I don't think that's the reason. I think it's more of the they don't want to kill am embroyo

 


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deludedgod wrote: Many

deludedgod wrote:

Many Christians are opposed to ESC (Embryonic Stem Cells) because the harvesting of them requires the destruction of the embryo from which they are harvested. I personally find this position rather odd since the foetus' used for ESC is one which was already aborted, so it might as well be used for some good.

So, as an alternative, they support umbilical cord stem cell, haemopoitic stem cells and adult stem cells. I personally don't care between the three so long as stem cell resarchers get the stem cells they need, and unfortunately, the American block on ESC is a major block to the desperate need for stem cells. They are the most potent stem cells.

What is also irrational, as I understand it, even fetuses of naturally occurring miscarriages are not allowed to be harvested.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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cloning for christians

i am a christian and i belive in cloning!!!its cool