Atheism Illogical? Theism Logical? * Rational Theism *

DZXirkthia
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Atheism Illogical? Theism Logical? * Rational Theism *

RATIONAL THEISM

A Rough Sketch to RRS Forums

Written by

Darcoija Zatgrian Xirkthia

Registered Copyright © 2007 by Me (the above)

Except for definitions cited

Theism does not necessarily imply, nor is it defined as faith or irrationality per se, or as something that cannot be scientifically proven, and/or obvious to be true. But rather, such implications and "definitions" should be viewed as simply a modus operandi of the status quo, or at least the satus quo as realized. Though dictionaries may differ in defining theism, the following should be universally permitted to an extent, and ab origine of the dictionary to be considered due to possible bias or illogicality:

1. [Source: WordNet by Princeton University]

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University

the - ism

noun

the doctrine or belief in the existence of a God or gods

2. [Source: American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

the - ism

n. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as Creator and ruler of the world.

In the case of my argument here for the time being I'll be using the first source aforementioned with an emphasis on the words "the doctrine . . . in the existence . . . a god . . . gods," and will also cite the definition of the following:

[Source American Heritage® Dictionary]

doc·trine

A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.
A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.
Archaic Something taught; a teaching.
Now, in accordance and regardless ad fontes I will give my ratio decidendi. Exploring dictionaries is redundant and ad infinitum (and there's too many words to list, and even etymology won't help in this case). So, using Occam's Razor to support my argumentum get ready to hear what I have to say. Which is thus:

I can say that I'm a God and that this is my theistic principle, and that nobody has a monopoly on what my definition of a god is allowed to be. I am a God because I exist, and my existence does not have to be proven, because it is an indisputable fact. And that is my definition of a God. To be a God I require one must exist, be of a certain IQ, be of a likewise or higher sentient being, have a certain capacity of free will, and possess certain economic realities, et al.

But now I digress from going further because the point has been made. So, in a quick and dirty nutshell I will say the aforementioned is what I know as god, the aforementioned attributes of that god are what I deem as the sacraments and tenets of that religion, and that -- in a nutshell all of it is on scientific, objective, and real basis. And that these are dressed in symbolic, allegorical, polemic, and ritual religionism, and that the fact that it is not of faith and that it is extant by obervable means, reason, and that it is scientifically rational is why it is seen as holy and divine.

Therefore, isn't calling onself an atheist illogical? If you presume to think there are some gods and not others then doesn't that make you a Suitheist or whatever word that you'd like to choose? Or do you presume to be an atheist sometimes and not others -- then doesn't that make you a hypocrite? Or do you presume to deny that person such theism simply because it's inconvenient for you? Thus making you intolerant at best, a reversed theist at worst, and/or an agnostic which then becomes theistic as well?

In conclusion, without eating up more time I'd like to end this. My purpose here was simply to make people examine things a little deeper. Hopefully cause a debate. Though that was pretty much a rough and dirty sketch of my rational position -- I hope the general idea is hinted at.


Rev_Devilin
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I admire your attempt to

I admire your attempt to copyright, a deviant of Buddhism Smiling

 


vexed
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DZXirkthia wrote: So,

DZXirkthia wrote:
So, using Occam's Razor to support my argumentum get ready to hear what I have to say. Which is thus: I can say that I'm a God and that this is my theistic principle, and that nobody has a monopoly on what my definition of a god is allowed to be. I am a God because I exist, and my existence does not have to be proven, because it is an indisputable fact. And that is my definition of a God. To be a God I require one must exist, be of a certain IQ, be of a likewise or higher sentient being, have a certain capacity of free will, and possess certain economic realities, et al. 

 

To be taken seriously, one must use the same definitions as everyone else. Unless your definition of 'god' is one of the words of your new language.

 

Well, I suppose I'm a unicorn. Since my definition of a unicorn is synonymous with homosapien.

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts


djneibarger
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yawn. so what's next?

yawn. so what's next? atheism doesn't exist? atheism is a religion?


Hambydammit
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Yeah, not to sound mean,

Yeah, not to sound mean, but you've successfully proven that you can play word games.

If you like, from now on, we'll call atheism "fartbuckets" and theism "shinymilk."  Regardless of the words used, or not used, there will still be, in the objective universe, a commonly held concept which relies on the supernatural, which is incoherent, and illogical, even if you believe yourself to be god.

Is there anything beyond this for your theory?  Does it impact my life in any meaningful way?

(I'm not being flippant.  I'm wondering if I've missed something important, because your theory doesn't sound like it has any impact on the universe.)

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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RhadTheGizmo
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Question.  Japan once

Question.  Japan once considered their emperor "God on earth," correct?  Were they theist then?


Hambydammit
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LOL Rhad.  Interesting

LOL Rhad.  Interesting point.  That's going to throw a monkey wrench in the theist's argument that the Japanese were atheists, and since they were so warlike, atheism is bad.

Actually, I may like this new theory.  From now on, I will just redefine words, and then proclaim victory.

Oh... wait.... someone else already cornered the market on that, didn't they...

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


RhadTheGizmo
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Quote: LOL Rhad. 

Quote:

LOL Rhad.  Interesting point.  That's going to throw a monkey wrench in the theist's argument that the Japanese were atheists, and since they were so warlike, atheism is bad.

Actually, I may like this new theory.  From now on, I will just redefine words, and then proclaim victory.

Oh... wait.... someone else already cornered the market on that, didn't they...

Wait.. no, I'm serious! Heh.

I mean.. under what classification would it fall? Granted, it's not the theism we usually speak of around here-- but still, accurately defined as theism? Or no?

It's not the same as the old Egyptian religions.. since, I believe, the Japanese emperor was The Supreme God-- of course, my knowledge of this old religion is a bit iffy.

Just looking for some clarification.

The problem with calling a person who, for all intents and purposes, seems exactly the same as every other person.. is, of what consequence is it?

"Hello Mr. Emperor-- What distinguishes you from me? Why should that matter when considering whether you're a good or not? How exactly does it affect me if I don't believe?"

.. would've been interesting to have grown up in that society-- except, of course, for all that war stuff. :P 


Hambydammit
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My definition of theism is

My definition of theism is simple:

Anyone who believes that any being is supernatural, and/or that a powerful entity(s) has some effect on the universe is a theist.

If the Japanese believed that a higher supernatural force was imbuing the Emperor, I would say they were theists.  The Egyptians were clearly theists, because they had other gods, including but not limited to the Pharoahs.

 The consequence of god-belief applied to men is the addition of supreme "supernatural" wisdom, or of infallibility, which, as we can clearly see from history, is a bad idea.

(I actually thought you were joking!  It's hard to tell with you sometimes)

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


RhadTheGizmo
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Hah.  Well. It's hard to

Hah.  Well. It's hard to tell because I'm only half-serious about everything. Smiling

In anycase.. I mean.. when I look at the definition of theism-- it would seem just as applicable.

No need for "supernatural"-- merely "all supreme"-- whatever that means.

But thanks for clearing that up Hammy.  Heh. 


wavefreak
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Laughably Silly Doo doo 

Laughably

Silly

Doo doo 


DZXirkthia
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Somebody kind of "got" the

Somebody kind of "got" the point here.

 

I'm an "atheist". That's one . . . by your guys' definition that is.

But yeah . . . The idea of a Hell is dumb because someone might be a masochist?

 

Sincerely,

 

Punchline


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DZXirkthia wrote: I can say

DZXirkthia wrote:
I can say that I'm a God and that this is my theistic principle, and that nobody has a monopoly on what my definition of a god is allowed to be. I am a God because I exist, and my existence does not have to be proven, because it is an indisputable fact. And that is my definition of a God. To be a God I require one must exist, be of a certain IQ, be of a likewise or higher sentient being, have a certain capacity of free will, and possess certain economic realities, et al. But now I digress from going further because the point has been made.

Ummm... what?  Sorry, bub; the Ontological Proof for god has already tried and failed: One simply can't assume/presuppose/define/wish a god into existence and call that an valid argument.

 Try again.