What is the difference between Brain Washing and Understanding (moved from Freethinking Anonymous)

Timf1234
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What is the difference between Brain Washing and Understanding (moved from Freethinking Anonymous)

What is the difference between brain washing and understanding?

How does it differ inside one's head? Give your best explanation.

Two person might say the same thing, for example: Electron has negative charge or US GDP is $13 trillion

One might be just spitting out a rote data and another person might be saying these with "understanding".

Both statements are coming out of respective heads. Then what is the differnece in the mind?

 

I am trying to show that many atheists have FAITH. They just do not have faith in god.

In this connection the Questin of Free Will is the most important one.

 

Please do not get offended. I am not trying to put down anyone. I am just testing my ideas and we all will learn from each other in the process.

 


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Timf1234 wrote: What is

Timf1234 wrote:

What is the difference between brain washing and understanding?

How does it differ inside one's head? Give your best explanation.

Two person might say the same thing, for example: Electron has negative charge or US GDP is $13 trillion

One might be just spitting out a rote data and another person might be saying these with "understanding".

Both statements are coming out of respective heads. Then what is the differnece in the mind?

 

I am trying to show that many atheists have FAITH. They just do not have faith in god.

In this connection the Questin of Free Will is the most important one.

 

Please do not get offended. I am not trying to put down anyone. I am just testing my ideas and we all will learn from each other in the process.

 

The ability to produce evidence is the difference.  For example, I am not a physics expert so I listen to what others tell me about physics and then research on my own.  Conversely, my spelling/grammar skills are better than average but I am not an expert.  If someone corrects me, I will research my error in addition to accepting the other persons correction.  

As an atheist, I can only speak for myself but I do not have faith.  There are sources I trust, but I do not place blind faith in anything or any person. 


MrRage
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Timf1234 wrote: I am trying

Timf1234 wrote:
I am trying to show that many atheists have FAITH. They just do not have faith in god.

Two questions.

1. What does faith have to do with brainwashing?
2. If we don't have faith in god, what then is the object of our faith?


BGH
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Brain washing also is

Brain washing also is seated in dogmatic repetition and foisting thoughts upon persons by psychological methods such as threats or torture.

No one brain washed me to make me an atheist. Rather, the brainwashing of my youth in the catholic church did not 'stick' (the threat was hell).

It does not take faith for me NOT to believe something. I am sure it takes no faith for you NOT to believe there are pink pigs living in your garbage disposal. There is just as much evidence for the pigs in your sink as there is for god in a 'heaven'.


Timf1234
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jce wrote: Quote: The

jce wrote:

Quote:
The ability to produce evidence is the difference.

 

Warning/Alert: English is my second language and I am a bad typist. Sorry. 

To further clarify my question, without giving it away, I should add that I want to know what is the difference in the mind, in the logical structure, in thoughts.

 


silentseba
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Faith is to belieave

Faith is to belieave without reason. You can only do this if you are dealing with the unknown. Science is not based on faith. Atheist use science to understand the world, therefore atheist don't have faith.

 

Ok, this might not make a lot of sense lol 


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This seems to me to be just

This seems to me to be just another version of tarring atheists with the same brush as theists.

 

In much the same way that theists like calling atheism a religion.

 

schoolyard , "I know you are but what am I" type mentality.


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If you have faith, you will

If you have faith, you will believe in something no matter what happens. If you have reason, you will believe in something based on your knowledge until proven wrong or you gain sufficient knowledge to believe in something new.

(btw, english is not my first language either ;p) 


Timf1234
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silenstseba,  I do agree

silenstseba,

 I do agree that scientific methodology is not based on faith.

But wouldn't it be more accurate to say that most atheists claim to use science. Some athesits do and other do not.

The trick of faith is that the victims of FAITH is not aware of the fact that they have faith. Vicitim of faith thinks they got solid basis.


Timf1234
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I did not say that atheism

I did not say that atheism is a religion.

I said many atheists have faith.

If I misstype somewhre, I will take it back.


silentseba
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Have faith in what?

Have faith in what?


BGH
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Tim, did you read

Tim, did you read this?

BGH wrote:

Brain washing also is seated in dogmatic repetition and foisting thoughts upon persons by psychological methods such as threats or torture.

No one brain washed me to make me an atheist. Rather, the brainwashing of my youth in the catholic church did not 'stick' (the threat was hell).

It does not take faith for me NOT to believe something. I am sure it takes no faith for you NOT to believe there are pink pigs living in your garbage disposal. There is just as much evidence for the pigs in your sink as there is for god in a 'heaven'.


Timf1234
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BGH,   Yes. I

BGH,

 

Yes. I did.

How would we know that you, I or anyone else is not brainwashed, at least partially?

Please go deeper than that.


Timf1234
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Faith on anything. Faith on

Faith on anything.

Faith on false thing/concept specially if the concept is pretty fundamental (implication is far reaching) is harmful.


BGH
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Timf1234

Timf1234 wrote:

BGH,

 

Yes. I did.

How would we know that you, I or anyone else is not brainwashed, at least partially?

Please go deeper than that.

Because I am willing to change my mind in the light of new evidence, brain washing would interfere with that ability.

You are asking an awful many questions of the posters here, what about you.

What about your beliefs, definitions, and feelings on the topics you posted.

Do you believe in god?

Do you believe you have free will?

How do you define faith?

 

 


BGH
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On a side note: If you are

On a side note:

If you are in fact a theist, you are not supposed to be posting in the 'Freethinking Anonymous' forum per forum rules.

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From this point forward the moderators will be destroying posts made by theists in the "Freethinking Anonymous" forum.  If you are a theist please be careful not to waste your time posting in this forum by looking at the top of the screen to determine which forum you are in when posting.  If you are an atheist and what theists to be able to weigh in on your topic, use "General Conversation" or "Atheist vs. Theist."

 

 Thanks,

 

RRS Mod Team

 

‹ How has being an atheist made you a better person? For many God doesn't exist but does Free Will exist? ›
Submitted by RationalRespons... on Sun, 2007-04-08 16:07. prune | write to author

 

Please let me know if I need to move these threads. 

 


Hambydammit
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It seems to me that you can

It seems to me that you can only be brainwashed if something isn't true.

In other words, I can't brainwash you into thinking the sky is blue, because it is!  I could, however, through manipulation, lies, and other methods, possibly convince you that it is actually red, and through some kind of defect, you are the only person around who thinks it's blue.  That would be brainwashing.

Granted, it's possible to use forcible techniques to convince someone of the truth, but I'd just call that being mean, not brainwashing.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


Nero
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Folks, I would like to

Folks, I would like to point out that we are arguing semantics with a person who has already admitted to a limited understanding of the Queen's English.  So, while his spelling and syntax is far superior to some that post regularly here, it seems an odd waste of time to debate the meaning of words with him. 

 Perhaps,he would be so good as to inform us of his mother tongue?  We may be sufficiently literate in it to bridge the clear gaps in his education.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


Timf1234
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Here is my answer:“Brain

Here is my answer:

“Brain Washing” versus Understanding

A brain washed mind has disconnected/compartmentalized knowledge. True or false either information could get into ones’ head as brainwashed.

The logical definition (forced definition) of “understanding” in contrast to “Brain Washed” implies, connections, millions of other relevant connections to other facts in one’s head.Hamby wrote: It seems to me that you can only be brainwashed if something isn't true. I humbly disagree.Knowing the right thing is not good enough. For understanding, I must also know how and why. That is, the valid connections my mind makes with millions of other knowledge I have in mind. Brain Washed mind doesn’t have coherency, consistency, connectivity to millions of other factual data.Therefore, yes, there is degree of Brain Wash and understanding.

Degree of understanding depends on how many relevant, valid, coherent connection one’s mind can make to prove or disprove something.Please think about what we mean when we say: John has very little understanding of xyz thing but Tommy has very thorough understand of it despite both answered the same.The more ways you can see a thing, the more ways you can verify the validity and/or invalidity the better understanding you have. Hence, “relativity of understanding”. A full network, valid connectivity, coherency, constancy of all knowledge one has in his/her mind is the understanding.

Anyone can have few compartmentalized knowledge in his/her brain here and there means not much to me.Notice the connectivity of meaning of understanding of “brain wash and understanding” and Logical definition/explanation of “Faith” and of importance of “logical definition” over “dictionary definition” and why stopping at “ we do not steal because it is against our morality” is a kind of FAITH to me unless you explain that something similar to how Hamby did. Link: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/freethinking_anonymous/9085 

The Patrician wrote:

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not. 

  

Please go one level deeper.here it is:No one can force any understanding on anyone's throat even at gun point. You can make other say something, make others do something, make them act in certain way but you can never make them understand. You can even pour it into their head, brainwash, but can't make them understand.