Sex and Ceremony

ParanoidAgnostic
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Sex and Ceremony

I know this is my second topic about sex in a couple of weeks, but I'm not obsessed with it, honestly.

I admit limited knowledge of anthropology but from what I have seen primitive religions seem to have many cemeonies based obviously on sexuality and mating, also a lot of their religious art is quite explicitly sexual. I recently noticed that christian ceremony (as far as I've seen) involves the complete denial of sexuality. At what point in human history did our ceremony enter into this phase of denial?

Ceremony is important to human beings and used quite well in the perpetuation of faith. I'm wondering if this strict taboo on sexuality in modern churches is helping lead do the loss of believers. Sexuality is a large part of life (It's how we make more people) primitive cultures seem to be honest about this and embrace sexuality while christianity seems to be ashamed of it. Perhaps it is not meeting the spiritual needs of sexual beings. 


Roisin Dubh
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ParanoidAgnostic wrote: I

ParanoidAgnostic wrote:

I admit limited knowledge of anthropology but from what I have seen primitive religions seem to have many cemeonies based obviously on sexuality and mating, also a lot of their religious art is quite explicitly sexual.

I'm no expert, but I believe many, if not most ceremonies involving sexuality were either tributes to gods and goddesses of fertility, or rites that were supposed to facilitate conception/childbirth.

Quote:
I recently noticed that christian ceremony (as far as I've seen) involves the complete denial of sexuality. At what point in human history did our ceremony enter into this phase of denial?

When judeo-christian religions took over.

Quote:
Ceremony is important to human beings and used quite well in the perpetuation of faith. I'm wondering if this strict taboo on sexuality in modern churches is helping lead do the loss of believers.

I don't know how much of the loss of believers is due to a lack of sex, but it surely contributes to the problem of a lack of priests/nuns that the catholics are having these days.

Quote:
Sexuality is a large part of life (It's how we make more people) primitive cultures seem to be honest about this and embrace sexuality while christianity seems to be ashamed of it. Perhaps it is not meeting the spiritual needs of sexual beings.

Many sexual beings don't have spiritual needs. I think the sexually-repressed nature of christianity is part of a bigger problem the religion faces today, that problem being how out of touch it is with modern society. And why shouldn't a religion be out of touch in 2007?

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


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I think we should go back to

I think we should go back to worship via orgy... it would make so much more sense and definitly make religion much more attractive Laughing out loud


Hambydammit
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Paranoid, my somewhat

Paranoid, my somewhat educated theory on the matter is even more bleak, I'm afraid. For what it's worth, I do have some background in sociology and psychology, so this isn't a blind guess, exactly.

I don't see significant loss of membership due to denial of sexuality. The opposite seems to be true. As you're well aware, sexual problems, particularly those acquired during pre-adolescence and adolescence, tend to last our entire lifetime. What you get when you combine Christianity (complete, blind belief in absolute truth) with the notion that sexuality is dirty or bad (childhood abuse, if you ask me, to tell that sort of thing to children) you get people who are going to live their lives by the idea that there's something wrong with them.

And when they have kids, they're going to teach the same things to them...

I think not only is the problem bad for Christians, it's even worse, because even after people leave Christianity, it's very, very difficult for them to disabuse themselves of many of their notions of sex. It's just such a personal, illogical, and private issue!

So, I'd suggest that in some ways, it actually keeps people in Christianity. If you really believe it's bad, and the church says you have to stay in the church to have any hope of defeating your sexuality, then that's one more chain that's going to hold you.

Furthermore, it stays in the psyche of those who leave religion, so that even non-Christians often have screwed up notions about sexuality from their past, after they've left the religion.

Boy, I feel down now. That's just depressing to think about.

 

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ParanoidAgnostic
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Hambydammit wrote:I think

Hambydammit wrote:

I think not only is the problem bad for Christians, it's even worse, because even after people leave Christianity, it's very, very difficult for them to disabuse themselves of many of their notions of sex. It's just such a personal, illogical, and private issue!

I know it had that effect on me, and I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember in detail. I have vague memories of believing because I was told as a young child but the moment I questioned it it any faith dissapeared, and even then it wasn't belief in the specifics of christianity, just a general idea that there is a god.

Despite my minimal exerience with christianity I still had the idea that sex is something dirty and bad. I've only recently (after over a decade of vocal atheism) gotten over it.

Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!


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At the time of

At the time of Christianity's founding, the mainstream Roman culture embraced fertility ceremonies.  Seriously, wedding cakes of the era would have been considered totally inappropriate for children by modern standards.

My theory is that, because Christianity was part of the counterculture, it took on a very anti-sex, ascetic character from the very beginning.  This may not be my theory alone--probably somebody else with more supporting evidence thought of it first.  It's just the overall impression I get from my reading so far.

I do know that Christianity had a very early, unfortunate association with ascetic  trends in both the Jewish and Greek traditions, the latter growing out of the dualistic matter=evil, spirit=good prejudice of the post-Zoroastrians.  Earlier I mentioned Augustin of Hippo as a concrete example of this influence on early Christianity, and his influence on the Catholics in particular is immeasurable.   Check out his_Confessions_ for the full (contrived IMO) rationale for why the body is evil and the spirit is good.

"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert


ShaunPhilly
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One of my earlier

One of my earlier motivations for being open about my being an atheist and wishing to see Christianity disappear has been related to this prudishness among religious people.

I started to become so annoyed that wherever I went, I met women who, even if they were not Christian, were still infested with this view of sex being dirty.  I've always been so open and not-guilty about my sexual desires, but have had so many prudish and conservative views of sex create psychological barriers from partners and potential partners.  I thought that if religion disappeared, future generations would not be so frustrated by sex-guilt.

Later on, I discovered communities of people who thought like I did about sexuality, and learned that there was still hope.  I still am annoyed by people with prudish or conservative views about sex, but since I know more people now that are not conservative in their views, I don't sweat it as much.

Although I do remember meeting some really attractive girls at the Christian meetings that Staks and I would attend to have discussions while in grad school.  So frustrating to meet attractive women who are convinved that they need Jesus, and not human companionship (*ahem*)....

I'll shut up now. 

I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.