The Monarchy

dassercha
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The Monarchy

I saw something in the news today about "the Royal Family" and it just makes me sick.

Okay, so at one point in England's history (and other countries, esp. Europe) the monarchy deluded people into believing they were appointed to rule over the good people by...GOD!!!!!

Correct?

 Nobody in their right mind believes that crap today, even the most fundy of fundies (believe me, I know quite a few--runs in the family). So why put up with them?

THEY ARE WORTH BILLIONS!!!!!!!!

They bilked their citizens out of BILLIONS for absolutely no reason. I think they should have to give back all "their" money to fund worthy causes, have them live in obscurity and never be heard from again.

Right? Whose with me???????

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Sleepyphoenix
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Indeed that divine right

Indeed that divine right crap was blown out of the water a long time ago. Tony Robinson did a series tracing the monarchy's blood line, turns out through numerous wars and such the real heir to the throne lives quietly in Australia. Those non-elected sponges (as Bill Bailey puts it) don't even have any right to be there, least of all a divine right.

We keep them out of tradition, and national culture. I suppose we'd be less than England without them. I'm more annoyed about the disgusting pay footballers get really. Especially when they complain about not getting enough millions.


dassercha
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Sleepyphoenix wrote: I'm

Sleepyphoenix wrote:

I'm more annoyed about the disgusting pay footballers get really. Especially when they complain about not getting enough millions.

But the footballers did not bilk the citizenry out of BILLIONS, did they? In the US leagues are private. But with this...this is going back centuries and involves bilking the good people.

Why put up with it? Who cares about the f**in' Prince & "the family"? Honestly, Di was the best thing that happened to them, b/c of her humanitarian efforts, IMHO... 

 

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Sounds like a bad idea to

Sounds like a bad idea to me...


dassercha
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MattShizzle wrote: Sounds

MattShizzle wrote:
Sounds like a bad idea to me...

What exactly? They STOLE, in my opinion Billions over the centuries based on a lie. Who the fuck are they? what gives them the right? they are no greater or less than you or I. 

 

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MattShizzle
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I meant keeping a monarchy

I meant keeping a monarchy seems like a bad idea to me.


latincanuck
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    They are now what

    They are now what society as a whole makes them to be, celebrities, and an institution, a tradition. Besides that if the their soceity gives them money that's the societies problem. As well they at least give to charity and some of them, ok Diana that i am aware of, (who wasn't by blood a monarch) have tried to use their influence for charitable causes, although how much I admit i have no clue.


dassercha
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latincanuck wrote: They

latincanuck wrote:
They are now what society as a whole makes them to be, celebrities, and an institution, a tradition. Besides that if the their soceity gives them money that's the societies problem. As well they at least give to charity and some of them, ok Diana that i am aware of, (who wasn't by blood a monarch) have tried to use their influence for charitable causes, although how much I admit i have no clue.

Exactly. Di wasn't "true" blood, was charitable & good and the "true" bloods, the real Royal family there, are sooooo freak'n wealthy--FOR NO REASON!!!

They did not work nor did they benefit their citizenry at any time, at all. People just sat back, ate it up and got bilked.

Just pisses me off. That and 14 million other things out there...Yell

 

 

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darth_josh
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Go back a little further

Go back a little further and you may find something that directly contradicts your idea that the royalty/nobility chose to be divine.

It is hypothesized that the 'church' in each culture picked the monarch, not the other way around. The pharaohs of ancient Egypt had to be declared Pharaoh by the priests of the gods.

Alexander and later Ptolemy had to have themselves declared Pharaoh in order for the people to follow.

 

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dassercha
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darth_josh wrote: Go back

darth_josh wrote:

Go back a little further and you may find something that directly contradicts your idea that the royalty/nobility chose to be divine.

It is hypothesized that the 'church' in each culture picked the monarch, not the other way around. The pharaohs of ancient Egypt had to be declared Pharaoh by the priests of the gods.

Alexander and later Ptolemy had to have themselves declared Pharaoh in order for the people to follow.

Okay, but still, the people did not choose them, right? The church tells the people what to believe, etc and on & on.

I dunno, I just don't get why people are so taken in with this garbage. Oh right. The fairy tale, blah, blah...sigh. 

 

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zarathustra
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Wasn't this current crop

Wasn't this current crop brought over since England couldn't brook another catholic king?


totus_tuus
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The British Royals cut a

The British Royals cut a pretty good deal for a bunch of Dutch usurpers who had no right to rule anything anyway.

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latincanuck
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However (ok i am

However (ok i am playing a bit of devils advocate here, personally i don't care either way for the monarchs) WW II the royal family did not leave England and choose to stay despite the bombings and all to help her people, they could have gone to Canada but didn't, This was a big boost in moral for the troops and the people. They stayed and helped their people. Elizabeth II as well had a military career, although it was at the end of the war, 1945.

The Prince's Trust, which exists to help young people overcome barriers and get their lives working. Since 1976 it has provided practical support to help 14-30 year olds realise their potential and transform their lives.

About 3,000 organisations list a member of the Royal Family as patron or president. The Queen has over 600 patronages and The Duke of Edinburgh over 700. So it's not like they keep their money and do nothing with it. But like i stated again, now it is an institution and they are a celebrity for England. It has been brought up before to disband the monarchy in England, yet it persists.

However they do have their faults, so the question would be does the good out weight the bad?


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dassercha wrote: Okay, but

dassercha wrote:
Okay, but still, the people did not choose them, right? The church tells the people what to believe, etc and on & on.

I've got two revelations for you:

1. "The people" don't choose the leader in most countries.

2. "etc and on & on" is frightfully redundant.

dassercha wrote:
I dunno, I just don't get why people are so taken in with this garbage. Oh right. The fairy tale, blah, blah...sigh.

Do you dress in black and smoke clove cigarettes? I have difficulty envisioning you in any other way.

totus_tuus wrote:
The British Royals cut a pretty good deal for a bunch of Dutch usurpers who had no right to rule anything anyway.

Your anti-Dutch sentiment has been noted and the proper authorities have been advised of your bigotry.

On a more serious note: I'd attribute a greater right to rule to a usurper than a hereditary monarch, given that the usurper was willing to scheme and manipulate in order to get the job. That's the kind of person I'd want in power (e.g., Karl Rove).

Details of my timeout are posted here.


totus_tuus
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loucks wrote: On a more

loucks wrote:
On a more serious note: I'd attribute a greater right to rule to a usurper than a hereditary monarch, given that the usurper was willing to scheme and manipulate in order to get the job. That's the kind of person I'd want in power (e.g., Karl Rove).

Karl Rove is Dutch?

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I don't know why you're

I don't know why you're getting all hot and bothered about the divine right of kings - something that was done away with centuries ago.  Everything has to been seen in the context of the times and what we might see as manipulation they may have genuinely believed. Applying today's value system to the past doesn't work.  There also needed to be some form of government.  A democracy only works if the people are relatively educated and there is an effective system for getting people to vote etc.  For many centuries the public was mostly illiterate and an effective communication system  nonexistent. The Athenian democracy only worked because it was relatively small but it still ended in corruption and the Roman version didn't do much better.  A monarchy was the norm and many people were content as long as they felt they were justly treated.  

 You can't blame the present monarchs for the actions of their ancestors.  The monarchy still exists because enough people want it to.  The British monarchy is a great tourist draw.  No one does ceremony as well as the British and much of it would be a moot point it there wasn't a king or queen.

 


Loucks
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totus_tuus wrote:Karl Rove

totus_tuus wrote:
Karl Rove is Dutch?

I couldn't say, but his record seems to indicate Dutch courage at the very least.

Details of my timeout are posted here.


dassercha
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Loucks wrote: dassercha

Loucks wrote:

dassercha wrote:
Okay, but still, the people did not choose them, right? The church tells the people what to believe, etc and on & on.

I've got two revelations for you:

1. "The people" don't choose the leader in most countries.

2. "etc and on & on" is frightfully redundant.

dassercha wrote:
I dunno, I just don't get why people are so taken in with this garbage. Oh right. The fairy tale, blah, blah...sigh.

Do you dress in black and smoke clove cigarettes? I have difficulty envisioning you in any other way.

1. You get an A+ for your comedy genius.

2. I'm a really good writer in real life, however, on the inneeernets, I tend to write how I speak. So sorry this bothers you so greatly. I will attempt to not offend His majesty in the future.

3. I smoked clove cigs. maybe twice or so in the distant past &  oh yes, I do have some black in my wardrobe that I tend to wear on occasion. Again, sorry to be a bother.

4. The point remains: I don't understand why this family STILL gets the Rock Star trmt. They are people like you & me.

Oh, I forgot. You're better than everyone else too. Sorry, Carry on...

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latincanuck
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    Umm no they are not

    Umm no they are not people like you and me, they are a tradition, an institution and celebrities. The monarchy has no real power as it once did, the prime minister decides what to do for the country, when to go to war, what laws to pass etc etc etc, the queen or monarchy is merely a figure head of the state. As much as people would love to say they are the same as the rest of us, it's not that way. They don't live like us, they don't even think like us, they have access to far greater things than us, they have more influence than us and in the same time are a tourist attraction as well, how many of us are actually considered a tourist attraction? how many of us have had movies made of us?. We are the people, and they stay in power in England because the people want that, otherwise it would have been scraped by now. They are not like us (yeah they are human and eat and shit like us, but common they are not like us in most ways) seriously how many of you had to make and appointment to see your grandmothers on a regular basis (and i don't mean because they are in hospitals or old age homes either?)


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I'd like to hear from some

I'd like to hear from some of our U.K. members here.

From what I understand, the English royal family is pretty darned popular.

I'd be curious to know if the U.K. members would like to see the monarchy dissolved.

 

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Jacob Cordingley
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I've never much liked the

I've never much liked the Royal Family. I find them to be the most annoying, loathesome people in the world. There really is no point to them, they are nothing but a relic, and perhaps an asset to the Tourism industry. I do know people who are Royalists, however they are few. Most people couldn't care less. I do come from the North though, the North being generally less conservative (with both capital and lower case 'c&#39Eye-wink. I think most people are quite idle about the Royal Family, don't have a problem with them but won't go out of their way to buy a Golden Jubillee teaset.

One thing that annoys me is that the Royal Palaces technically belong to us, the people, and yet we are not even aloud to go in some of them. They are also worth a hell of a lot of money, money which would be better spent on the welfare of those who own it! They are superfluous and a drain on resources. Get rid of the bastards!