Questions Your Pastor Will Hate

mindspread
mindspread's picture
Posts: 360
Joined: 2007-02-18
User is offlineOffline
Questions Your Pastor Will Hate


Got this from the Friendly Atheist's site:

Questions Your Pastor Will Hate

by Dennis Diehl

http://www.opednews.com

document.write ('&#39Eye-wink Tell A Friend document.write ("&quotEye-wink

When I was kid, I loved to ask my minister questions about things that, to my young mind, made no sense when I read them in the Bible or more likely heard them in Sunday school. His answers were always rather bland and not a little aloof since, after all, he was the pastor and I was just a kid.

I remember asking about how humans and dinosaurs could coexist. After all, they had to be a part of the creation story, even though not mentioned specifically. Or why would dinosaurs be taken on the ark, only to go extinct such a short time after? And how do you cage a T-Rex or fit a Brontosaurus on such a boat, much less a pair of all sorts?

I got a lot of looks but very few answers. As the years went by, I concluded that none of it was either possible or even addressed in the Bible. I realized humans and dinosaurs had nothing in common (unless you live in the SE USA) and the pastor was either ignorant, deliberately deceptive or hung up somewhere in between himself, not knowing what to say to a kid. I honestly think I would have appreciated knowing what I suspect he knew, that being the story of Noah was fiction and I didn't have to worry about dinosaurs or polar bears for tha matter on the ark. It never happened.

I remember asking why the Bible, a book which had to know better since it was written by God himself, said Joshua raised his hands and the "sun stopped for the space of about a day," when clearly it would be the earth that stopped rotating? I asked him how oceans would not slop out of their basins in such a scenario and drown the whole world? I asked him if humans would not be cast into space by such a sudden stop of the entire planet? I even asked if this really happened, why did no one else on the whole planet notice it, or write about it? I got that dumb look again.

I asked what about all those in history and even now who have never heard of Jesus. He said they all are saved in their ignorance, though another minister I asked said they all go to hell of some sort. So depending on who you ask, the ignorant either get an automatic free pass for their trouble or go to hell, having no awareness of what they did to deserve that! Hmmmm. Something ain't right here!

I did respond by asking him why then we should send missionaries and put the ignorant at risk, when if we just leave them alone, they can make it in their ignorance of never having heard the only name under heaven by which a man can be saved. I got the look again.

I went to a Christian college to study these things. Boy if you think I had questions as a kid!

"Why did God not like Cain's vegetable sacrifice but loved Abel's cooked meat?" Answer...Vegetarians are weak Christians.

"Who was Cain afraid would kill him when God put him out of the Garden for killing Abel? There were mom, dad, bro and himself on the whole planet at the time." Answer...He must have known his sisters were going to have kids with dad, no not that. He was speculating. Cain wasn't thinking very clearly that day.

"Why would God stop the whole earth for a day so Israelites could finish a genocide against the enemy?" I mean, I can see stopping it so there is more time to hug, or feed the hungry, or plant the crops, but more time to kill? Dumb story. Answer...God hates sin and had to kill the bastards, he just needed more time than he planned on."

"How come the horses in the Exodus die twice in the Ten Plagues and still survive for Pharoah to mount a final attack against the Israelites, and then die again." Answer...Where do you get this stuff?

"Why, no matter what, is it always the human's fault and God never gets any blame for not making good on his promises?" Answer...It's a mystery. Have faith. God's ways are not your ways.

"Why does the Apostle Paul, who writes most of the New Testament, NEVER quote Jesus, tell a story of his life or death, discuss a miracle or teaching?" Answer...Where do you get this stuff?

"Why does neither Mark nor John know anything about Jesus birth, while Matthew and Luke do but tell contradictory stories?" Answer...Because the Gospels are like four people who see a car wreck...

"Why does Paul only say Jesus was born of a woman like everyone else?" Answer...Paul was concerned about the risen Jesus, not the earthly one. He was too busy to check up on the details.

"Did Paul ever spend five minutes with the real human Jesus?" Answer..well no, but Paul's Jesus is the risen Jesus, it doesn't matter.

"Isn't it strange the man who writes most of the New Testament and tells us all how to live, think and believe about Jesus, never met him, while the Twelve who did, vanish into thin air and write nothing/" Answer...You ain't from around these parts are you boy.

"How come Jesus never wrote anything himself while alive, but then writes perfect Greek after he is dead in the form of the Book of Revelation?" Answer....He finished his PHD in Heaven.

"If Herod killed all the little children under two to get at Jesus, who escaped, can we not say the little children had to die for Jesus before he died for them?" Answer...No we can't, sheesh.

"How come Herod couldn't follow the Star of Bethlehem himself to find Jesus, but sent others to report back when they found him?" Answer...He was busy.

"How could Mary leave town after being warned of Herod's intentions and never tell the women in the town, their kids were about to be butchered?" Answer...she was under oath not to tell the Angel story.

"Do you think Mary thought, 'I know something you don't know,' as she left town?" Answer...you're sick.

"How could Jesus family flee to Egypt sometime during the first two years in one story but go home to Narareth quietly after 40 days in the other?" Answer...It's a miracle.

"How come in Mark 3 Mary and his brothers came to get Jesus and take him home because they thought he was "mad" which I assume means insane. Did Mary forget who he was and how he got here?" Answer...shut up.

"How come Matthew uses the Old Testament to weave a story of Jesus, where every quote he uses has absolutely nothing to do with the point he is making about Jesus birth?" Answer...While we might flunk you for such methods, we give Matthew an A, because, well, he's Matthew. Bible guys get to do and say things you're not allowed to.

"If Jesus was asked 'who sinned, this man or his parents that he was born blind?', would that not imply the man had sinned before his birth, perhaps in a previous life, if his blindness at birth was some kind of punishment? I mean, the blindness was from birth, so the sin had to be before that." Answer...Ummm.., no. Whatever the answer, it's definately not that one.

"So is it just me, or are these good questions to ask about the text and theology of the Bible?" Answer...It's just you. While we might be marginally informed ourselves, we are very piously convicted of our answers. The wisdom of man, and this would be you in this case, is foolishness with God. You're fired and have a nice day.

And so it goes. If you want to make a pastor, elder or deacon turn white with fear or red with anger, just ask a Bible question based on the actual text or what today we would simple know as common sense. Depending on his denomination, education, candor and personal spiritual confidence, he will react accordingly. Most pastors I know are sincere, but ill informed or duplistic and well informed, not willing to risk all for what they clearly also see is a problem with the "inerrant" text of the Bible. Kinda sad actually, but when it comes to matters of the spirit, it is important to keep asking those questions about a book that proports to have the key to everything and the only right way for a human to think. It's important to ask questions of all such books and ideas. Let's face it, take away the zealots and fundamentalists from Judaism, Islam and Christianity, and the planet might actually find some peace. Killing the messenger for bringing the message some don't want to hear, is however, still the preferred way to handle such things all too often.

Dennis is a former Pastor of 26 years and still has lots of questions left Smiling

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Dennis_Diehl

 

 

This guy has a lot of cool articles on religion.

 

 


BGH
BGH's picture
Posts: 2772
Joined: 2006-09-28
User is offlineOffline
That is awesome!! Very well

That is awesome!! Very well written too.

I like the one about Herod killing all the babies under two, and them having to die before jesus could die for them. LOL. 


simple theist
Theist
Posts: 259
Joined: 2007-05-28
User is offlineOffline
I'm bored, so I'm going to

I'm bored, so I'm going to try to answer these. My answers will be in color.

mindspread wrote:

"Why did God not like Cain's vegetable sacrifice but loved Abel's cooked meat?" Answer...Vegetarians are weak Christians. Cain made the sacrifice because he had to, while Abel did it because he wanted to. It is also possible that Cain brought his worse crops, while Abel brought his best meat. The other possibility is that you have to sacrifice animals, not vegetables (I disagree as to this being the reason, but it is presented as a possibility)

"Who was Cain afraid would kill him when God put him out of the Garden for killing Abel? There were mom, dad, bro and himself on the whole planet at the time." Answer...He must have known his sisters were going to have kids with dad, no not that. He was speculating. Cain wasn't thinking very clearly that day. It appears there were a lot more people then the bible mentions. I think the mark was more to keep Adam from killing Cain for kiliing Abel.

"Why would God stop the whole earth for a day so Israelites could finish a genocide against the enemy?" I mean, I can see stopping it so there is more time to hug, or feed the hungry, or plant the crops, but more time to kill? Dumb story. Answer...God hates sin and had to kill the bastards, he just needed more time than he planned on." I think there are reasons we don't know about. (Yea not the best answer)

"How come the horses in the Exodus die twice in the Ten Plagues and still survive for Pharoah to mount a final attack against the Israelites, and then die again." Answer...Where do you get this stuff? Not all of the horses died of course. It's unreasonable to assume that all of Pharoh's army was camped out in the same city. Maybe some were outside of Egypt. Maybe some of the hourses survived the plagues.

"Why, no matter what, is it always the human's fault and God never gets any blame for not making good on his promises?" Answer...It's a mystery. Have faith. God's ways are not your ways. Becuase it is always our fault.

"Why does the Apostle Paul, who writes most of the New Testament, NEVER quote Jesus, tell a story of his life or death, discuss a miracle or teaching?" Answer...Where do you get this stuff? He didn't witness Jesus' miracles or teaching. He recieved everything he knew as a revelation from Jesus. Also Paul always writes to people who were already Christians, and so had already heard about the mircales and sayings of Jesus. Paul had no reason to repeat these events in his letters.

"Why does neither Mark nor John know anything about Jesus birth, while Matthew and Luke do but tell contradictory stories?" Answer...Because the Gospels are like four people who see a car wreck...The events are not contradictory. John cares more about Jesus being God then Jesus being born and perhaps Mark didn't see a reason why his auidence would care how Jesus was born, or perhaps they already knew the birth story.

"Why does Paul only say Jesus was born of a woman like everyone else?" Answer...Paul was concerned about the risen Jesus, not the earthly one. He was too busy to check up on the details. Because Jesus was born of a woman only. This is essential to Christian belief for Jesus to be the Messiah.

"Did Paul ever spend five minutes with the real human Jesus?" Answer..well no, but Paul's Jesus is the risen Jesus, it doesn't matter. Probably not. Paul recieved his knowledge by revelation from Jesus himself. So Paul did have some time wth Jesus, just not while Jesus was on Earth.

"Isn't it strange the man who writes most of the New Testament and tells us all how to live, think and believe about Jesus, never met him, while the Twelve who did, vanish into thin air and write nothing/" Answer...You ain't from around these parts are you boy. Paul's mission in life was to go to the gentiles. The other apostles were to go to the Jewish people. Hence we the gentiles have Paul's writtings and few of the others writings. Also education wasn't exactly top notch in those days, so perhaps the others didn't know how to write or couldn't afford paper. It's also possible their writings were lost or hidden away in a church somewhere.

"How come Jesus never wrote anything himself while alive, but then writes perfect Greek after he is dead in the form of the Book of Revelation?" Answer....He finished his PHD in Heaven. John wrote the book of Revelation, not Jesus. Also Jesus' mission on earth was to go to the Jews and not the Gentiles. He had no reason to write anything since he was to only teach to the Jews.

"If Herod killed all the little children under two to get at Jesus, who escaped, can we not say the little children had to die for Jesus before he died for them?" Answer...No we can't, sheesh. No we can't. God did not choose for the children to die, Herod did.

"How come Herod couldn't follow the Star of Bethlehem himself to find Jesus, but sent others to report back when they found him?" Answer...He was busy. Herod wasn't trained in astrological signs. The star wouldn't have been noticable to someone who didn't study the stars. Herod also had a kingdom to run, and couldn't go searching for a baby.

"How could Mary leave town after being warned of Herod's intentions and never tell the women in the town, their kids were about to be butchered?" Answer...she was under oath not to tell the Angel story. She would have also been laughed right out of town. or Worse stoned to death for blasphemy.

"Do you think Mary thought, 'I know something you don't know,' as she left town?" Answer...you're sick. She was worried about getting out of town. She was also humble.

"How could Jesus family flee to Egypt sometime during the first two years in one story but go home to Narareth quietly after 40 days in the other?" Answer...It's a miracle. Egypt and Israel aren't that far apart. I think about a two week journey. Its also possible they made one trip on foot and the other on camel.

"How come in Mark 3 Mary and his brothers came to get Jesus and take him home because they thought he was "mad" which I assume means insane. Did Mary forget who he was and how he got here?" Answer...shut up. Mark mentions Jesus' brothers and Mother, but I don't get where you go they thought he was mad from.

"How come Matthew uses the Old Testament to weave a story of Jesus, where every quote he uses has absolutely nothing to do with the point he is making about Jesus birth?" Answer...While we might flunk you for such methods, we give Matthew an A, because, well, he's Matthew. Bible guys get to do and say things you're not allowed to. Jesus' interpretation of scripture is greater then ours. Also they have something to do with what he is quoting.

"If Jesus was asked 'who sinned, this man or his parents that he was born blind?', would that not imply the man had sinned before his birth, perhaps in a previous life, if his blindness at birth was some kind of punishment? I mean, the blindness was from birth, so the sin had to be before that." Answer...Ummm.., no. Whatever the answer, it's definately not that one. The answer Jesus was looking for was neither of them sinned.



Textom
Textom's picture
Posts: 551
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
I have alternate answers. 

I have alternate answers.  Mine will be in Red.  Smiling 

simple theist wrote:

I'm bored, so I'm going to try to answer these. My answers will be in color.

mindspread wrote:

"Why did God not like Cain's vegetable sacrifice but loved Abel's cooked meat?" Answer...Vegetarians are weak Christians. Cain made the sacrifice because he had to, while Abel did it because he wanted to. It is also possible that Cain brought his worse crops, while Abel brought his best meat. The other possibility is that you have to sacrifice animals, not vegetables (I disagree as to this being the reason, but it is presented as a possibility)  According to historians, one likely reason is the fact that at the time this document was written, the Hebrews were pastoral people who lived by herding goats.  They lived nomadically near a lot of agricultural people who lived by growing crops.  Because one of the reasons why Judeo-Christian religion held together so long is due to its intolerance and resistance to assimilation by other religions, the story of Cain and Abel is a cautionary tale designed to reassure the pastoral Hebrews that Yaweh is really keen on goats and sheep, but not so much on turnips.

"Who was Cain afraid would kill him when God put him out of the Garden for killing Abel? There were mom, dad, bro and himself on the whole planet at the time." Answer...He must have known his sisters were going to have kids with dad, no not that. He was speculating. Cain wasn't thinking very clearly that day. It appears there were a lot more people then the bible mentions. I think the mark was more to keep Adam from killing Cain for kiliing Abel. The whole presence of all those other people who are already there after the Cain and Abel story comes from the fact that the creation story and the Cain-Abel and after stories actually come from different source documents, so they don't share the same premises.  Tradition says that Moses supposedly wrote the whole book of Genesis.  But that doesn't explain why he calls god "Yaweh" in some places and "Elohim" in other places and changes his vocabulary abruptly for long spans.

Snipping a few questions here where the alternate answer is obviously "Because the story is made up."



"Why does neither Mark nor John know anything about Jesus birth, while Matthew and Luke do but tell contradictory stories?" Answer...Because the Gospels are like four people who see a car wreck...The events are not contradictory. John cares more about Jesus being God then Jesus being born and perhaps Mark didn't see a reason why his auidence would care how Jesus was born, or perhaps they already knew the birth story. Mark is the orginal gospel.  The authors of Matthew and Luke/Acts used the gospel of Mark as their source.  The most likely reason why their accounts differ is because they both separately felt the need to supply the story of Jesus's birth (maybe to fit the prophecy?), but didn't consult with each other about what the details of the story should be.  The gospel of John is a later work that was written by Greek Gnostic Christians, so they didn't really care much about the Jewish prophecies.    

"Why does Paul only say Jesus was born of a woman like everyone else?" Answer...Paul was concerned about the risen Jesus, not the earthly one. He was too busy to check up on the details. Because Jesus was born of a woman only. This is essential to Christian belief for Jesus to be the Messiah. Paul was already struggling against versions of Christianity that differed in dogma from the version he was inventing.  The Galatians to whom Paul was writing must have had some Greek Christians who believed, as many did at the time, that Jesus created himself.

"Did Paul ever spend five minutes with the real human Jesus?" Answer..well no, but Paul's Jesus is the risen Jesus, it doesn't matter. Probably not. Paul recieved his knowledge by revelation from Jesus himself. So Paul did have some time wth Jesus, just not while Jesus was on Earth. Paul may have actually believed that he was getting the message from Jesus; there's no particular reason to suspect that he was trying to deceive anybody.  But the content of his dogma is clearly not consistent in many key places with what Jesus is supposed to have said.

"Isn't it strange the man who writes most of the New Testament and tells us all how to live, think and believe about Jesus, never met him, while the Twelve who did, vanish into thin air and write nothing/" Answer...You ain't from around these parts are you boy. Paul's mission in life was to go to the gentiles. The other apostles were to go to the Jewish people. Hence we the gentiles have Paul's writtings and few of the others writings. Also education wasn't exactly top notch in those days, so perhaps the others didn't know how to write or couldn't afford paper. It's also possible their writings were lost or hidden away in a church somewhere.  As far as anybody knows, the original apostles expected Jesus to return before they themselves died.  When that didn't happen, they had to go to plan B.  Paul's great innovation (because Jesus in his recorded life never told anybody to do this) was to make Christianity a non-Jewish religion by writing very clearly that Christians didn't have to be circumcised or follow the Law.  If he hadn't come up with that notion, Christianity would have been just another extinct Jewish cult like the Essenes.

"How come Jesus never wrote anything himself while alive, but then writes perfect Greek after he is dead in the form of the Book of Revelation?" Answer....He finished his PHD in Heaven. John wrote the book of Revelation, not Jesus. Also Jesus' mission on earth was to go to the Jews and not the Gentiles. He had no reason to write anything since he was to only teach to the Jews.  Revelations is no longer attributed by any serious scholar to the apostle John--the book itself just says it was written by somebody named John.  References to the blood atonement and the seven churches of Asia suggest that it was written a couple of generations after Jesus died--to long for John the Apostle to have lived. The Revelation of John is just one of hundreds and hundreds of known Apocalypses that describe the end time, written in Greek about the same time and in the same style.  It was a whole genre of writing that this is only one relatively unremarkable example of.

"If Herod killed all the little children under two to get at Jesus, who escaped, can we not say the little children had to die for Jesus before he died for them?" Answer...No we can't, sheesh. No we can't. God did not choose for the children to die, Herod did. Inconsistencies between actual historical records of the Roman rule in Palestine and the account given in the gospel reveal that this incident cannot have happened the way it was described.

Snipping some questions here that suffer from the same chronological prolems and where the alternate answer is, similarly,"Because the author of Matthew made it up."


"How come in Mark 3 Mary and his brothers came to get Jesus and take him home because they thought he was "mad" which I assume means insane. Did Mary forget who he was and how he got here?" Answer...shut up. Mark mentions Jesus' brothers and Mother, but I don't get where you go they thought he was mad from. They thought he had a (literally) "unclean spirit," which is the usual way of characterizing mental illness.  But I also don't see where Mary is not recognizing J.

"How come Matthew uses the Old Testament to weave a story of Jesus, where every quote he uses has absolutely nothing to do with the point he is making about Jesus birth?" Answer...While we might flunk you for such methods, we give Matthew an A, because, well, he's Matthew. Bible guys get to do and say things you're not allowed to. Jesus' interpretation of scripture is greater then ours. Also they have something to do with what he is quoting. The author of Matthew's linking of the story from Mark with the OT made sense to his readers--Jewish people--in the context of their constructed traditions about the prophecies.  It would take a serious OT/Hebrew scholar to be able to backtrack and reconstruct what that author was talking about.  But probably one of them has done it.

"If Jesus was asked 'who sinned, this man or his parents that he was born blind?', would that not imply the man had sinned before his birth, perhaps in a previous life, if his blindness at birth was some kind of punishment? I mean, the blindness was from birth, so the sin had to be before that." Answer...Ummm.., no. Whatever the answer, it's definately not that one. The answer Jesus was looking for was neither of them sinned. Right, this is part of Jesus's Jewish religious reform program--challenging the traditional assumption that congenital defects are a punishment from God.  It's just one of the innumerable examples of things Jesus said and did that substantiate the fact that he was trying to fix the Jewish religion, not found a new, non-Jewish religion.


"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert


kmisho
kmisho's picture
Posts: 298
Joined: 2006-08-18
User is offlineOffline
Here's my favorite question

Here's my favorite question for christians these days: Whay wasn't the first person created Jesus instead of Adam?


zarathustra
atheist
zarathustra's picture
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2006-11-16
User is offlineOffline
This has pretty much

This has pretty much already been schooled, but no point in saving these two cents for later:

Snippets from your first 4 responses:

#1.

simple theist wrote:
...The other possibility is that you have to sacrifice animals, not vegetables (I disagree as to this being the reason, but it is presented as a possibility)

#2.

simple theist wrote:
It appears ...I think...

#3.

simple theist wrote:
I think there are reasons we don't know about. (Yea not the best answer)

#4.

simple theist wrote:
Maybe some were outside of Egypt. Maybe some of the hourses survived the plagues.

"Possibility...I think...It appears...Maybe...."

No way the bible could be contradictory. All you need is gross speculation to dismiss any such claim.

simple theist wrote:
"If Herod killed all the little children under two to get at Jesus, who escaped, can we not say the little children had to die for Jesus before he died for them?" Answer...No we can't, sheesh. No we can't. God did not choose for the children to die, Herod did.

Or did Herod have to kill the children, in order to fulfill the prophecy (Jeremiah 31:15)? After all, jesus had to ride into town on an ass for the same reason.

simple theist wrote:
"How could Jesus family flee to Egypt sometime during the first two years in one story but go home to Narareth quietly after 40 days in the other?" Answer...It's a miracle. Egypt and Israel aren't that far apart. I think about a two week journey. Its also possible they made one trip on foot and the other on camel.

Strange, though. According to exodus, it takes 40 years to get from egypt to israel.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††