It seems to me that people's need to judge others isn't about defending their faith so much as needing to feel superior.   Whenever people judged me they always seemed to be saying, "SEE!  I'm a better Christian than you and God's gonna love me more than you!  HA!"  A lot of us feel a need from time to time to be better than someone else.  Whether it is scoring highest on a test or becoming prom queen or getting the big promotion, we need to win sometimes whether there is a competition or not.  Although faith shouldn't really have this problem, people still want everyone to know that they are the #1 CHRISTIAN EVER.  "I've read more bible than you."  " Well, I went to church more than you."  "well I pray more", etc...  It is not fair at all, but there it is.  Of course, I could very well be out in left field on this one, but there are my thoughts...

Nice downplay considering all the violence god allows  in the bible to be done by his followers to outsiders.

Time after time god is complicite to genocide when his followers slaughter others because "God" gave them divine authority to do so If you cant see that in the bible, you must not be reading the words.

Here is the reality. Ancient polythistic and monotheistic writtings reflected the tribalism of the cultures of the time.  Kingships had a"Kill or be killed" "Us vs Them" attitude. So it is no suprise at all that that mentality crept into religions both polytheism and monotheism..

It never occurs to you that your holy book is nothing more than the ancients projection of their own superiority complex written down as mythology baught as fact?

I am not saying to be mean to you. I am merely presenting you with another option rather than the one you currently hold. Did that ever occur to you? 

I was stating my understanding of the theology, not what I personally believe. Hence the phrase "as I understand it" .

I think its perfectly natural to judge people.  Everyone does it.  If I run into some guy at a bar, for example, and he's acting a little shady, or maybe a little pushy, it's going to factor into my opinion of that person and in some ways it may even protect me.  Being a 'bad judge of character' usually gets a person in trouble.

As far as the Bible goes, I believe it is up to god to be the judge.  Like you, I haven't delved too deep into the scripture so I don't want overextend my knowledge. 

Of course, many Christians (and atheists, and muslims, and buddhists, etc) are quick to judge.  When this is pointed out to some theists, you'll often here 'well, they aren't true Christians'.  The irony in this, besides the fallacy, is that the theist making the statement is being rather judgmental himself. 

The hypothetical question is useless. It assumes things like omnibenevolence and other absolutes.  This thread is about judgment, not suffering. All I offered was an observation about judgment. Nothing more.

That makes a lot of sense.   

If God said "Do [this] and you will go to Hell" and you do [this], is it wrong for me to say you are going to Hell? (and we should remember that you aren't seeking forgiveness for any unknown sins since you don't even believe in tGod). God has already said that you are going to Hell, I'm simply informing you what God said.

If it was up to me, I'd let a whole lot more people in Heaven then most Christian's think God would. I think we (christians) can all agree that Hitler is probably going to Hell, but as for the Dalai Lama I don't think one should absolutely say he is going to Hell. So if your doing evil things, I think its ok to say your going to Hell, but I'm not so sure about saying that someone who is loving, kind, always helping people, and is overall more good than most christians is going to Hell.

IF being the operative term here, No, it wouldn't be wrong but test the "if" for yourself. I'll help you. give me a quote with precisely such a statement in it. 

If only evil were dealt with so simply by one coherent Christian Iconic text. UNfortunately that simply isn't the case and ultimately if any God, it's Giant Moth who has it right.  

 I was actually asking for a "God said" quote, so this is kind of off base, but anyway, yeah that'd mean nothing much at all beyond the anger in which it was said, it's otherwise completely irrational, wouldn't it make more sense to damn him to gaol first? save someone some suffering.

It seems that a lot of discussion here concerning judgment, has actually been referring to stereotyping.

In Giant Moth's question he is concerned with people passing judgment, not stereotyping.

Let's take a look at the two definitions and compare them. Doing this will make sure that we are all on the same page.

Judgment:

1. The act or process of judging; the formation of an opinion after consideration or deliberation.
2. 1. The mental ability to perceive and distinguish relationships; discernment: Fatigue may affect a pilot's judgment of distances.
   2. The capacity to form an opinion by distinguishing and evaluating: His judgment of fine music is impeccable.
   3. The capacity to assess situations or circumstances and draw sound conclusions; good sense: She showed good judgment in saving her money. See synonyms at reason.
3. An opinion or estimate formed after consideration or deliberation, especially a formal or authoritative decision: awaited the judgment of the umpire.
4. Law.
   1. A determination of a court of law; a judicial decision.
   2. A court act creating or affirming an obligation, such as a debt.
   3. A writ in witness of such an act.
5. An assertion of something believed.
6. A misfortune believed to be sent by God as punishment for sin.
7. Judgment The Last Judgment.

Stereotype:

1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
2. One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.

[I highlighted the points I felt to be important] 

I understand Giant Moth's question be directed to things more along the lines of judgments, not stereotypes. Yet, as many of the disputes in this thread have been going, the dispute seems to be over stereotyping and its correctness and place in human interaction. 

Yet, a judgment such as, "You are an atheist. You must be going to hell." is not a mere stereotype. That is a judgment. If it was a stereotype concerning atheists you would say something alone the lines of, "You are an atheist. You belong to a group that doesn't believe in God." See the difference? 

The additional step that a judgment takes that a stereotype does not, is the imposition of a belief. Therefore, it is wrong to say forming "judgments" is a natural human process like stereotyping. I would venture to argue that in this context, between atheist and theist in a conversation, judging is not natural/correct. You can also extend this to other aspects of human interaction as well, not just atheist and theist interaction.

Stereotyping is forming beliefs about a person or thing possibly belonging to a certain group or class, such as "possibly dangerous person/object" or "possibly poisonous." I don't see classifying between people as "going to Hell" and "going to Heaven" as mere stereotypes as being a correct classification. Why? Well, that's what were discussing isn't it? One way of explaining it, could be that we could actually see through experience if something is dangerous or poisonous or not. We cannot test whether someone is going to Hell or Heaven no matter how hard we pray. If you believe in God, only he could know. The chance of us ever knowing the truth to such a judgment is 0. Therefore, why make it?  

As you may have gathered, I agree with Giant Moth that the big man should do the judging. I hope everyone can at least begin to focus their discussions further to judgment without conflating stereotype with judgment.    

And in the case of a judgement towards an atheist (or anyone for that matter who is not Christian) is not necessarily true either.

Your implication dripping from your post was amusing.

If you believe that way then more power to you. Enjoy damning more than half the world.  

Indeed. I badly misinterpretted what you were saying in your reply to my post. Please accept this as an apology for my being wrong about what you meant.

Just curious, what did you mean in your reply to my post? 

Ah I see the problem. I'm not saying that it is a stereotype, I meant to imply that "If" it was a stereotype, then it would look something like how I described. I was just trying to point out how, I see a mere grouping of an atheist with others of the same sort as a proper stereotype. Which could also be further seen as a "true" judgment.

But the point I was trying to make was that if you go beyond stereotyping and say something along the lines of, "If you're an atheist you're going to hell." then you would be doing something wrong/unnatural/incorrect. 

I think simple theist, we see eye-to-eye on this part of the discussion though. Thanks for accepting my apoloy btw.

THAT IS A DODGE AND AN UTTER COP OUT! 

You WONT answer my question. But I'll do it for you.

If you have any moral fiber at all, one shred, your answer should be, "If I were god there is no way I would allow a child to be raped or murdered". 

You dont want to answer that question because it shows the absurdity of claiming a god to be "all loving" and "all powerfull". I dont call a being allowing such horrors against a child "all loving" or "all powerfull".

Now, here is what you dont want to consider. Those horrible things are a statistical part of crime and an unfortunate part of reality. There is no need for a devil with a pitchfork rearanging the thoughts in someones head. Sickos commit these crimes for phycological reasons, not superstitious ones.

Bad happens, not as a result of a disimbodied boogieman down below. These horrible things are an unfortunate reality. Just because we call cancer natural, doesnt mean we want it affecting us and we certainly dont atribute cancer to Thor or Apollo. Crime has always been a part of human history. Sane people dont want crime affecting them.

So what is the best way to reduce and minimize horrors like child rape and murder? Use a ouiji board? Use a voodoo doll? Pray to Vishnu? NO, the best way to reduce crimes like this is to study past crimes, past perpitrators and educate children and parents on safty.

There is no need for Superman vs Kriptonite explinations as to why bad happens.

And this does have to do with judgement. Seeing the flaw in "all loving" and "all powerfull" there is no way I could stick my brain in a blender to consider worshiping a being who "judges" when it cant or wont stop a child from being harmed in such a horrific mannor. That would be like making Barny Fife head of the CIA.

"I'm not God" is what you coped out to and is not what I asked you.

I asked YOU what YOU would do.

Your answer should be:

"No I would not allow that if I were god."

Or 

"Yes, I would allow that if I were god." 

You can try, but it will be your answer, not mine.

Aspersions about my character are not helpful.

I don't understand the ideas of all loving or all powerful. I tend to accept the non-cognitivist position that god so defined is logically non-sensical.

You want to argue about that Christian "perfect" god. I don't. Sorry.

I suppose I have pantheistic tendencies. I have far many more questions than answers. I see contemporary organized religions  as fatally flawed. I consider alot of things as possible, but very little of which I am certain. I think this frustrates some of the members here because they think I'm dodging. It really comes down to a big fat "I don't know".

I grew up in Southern California and have been exposed to Eastern religions, Eckankar, and some fringe ideologies. I attended a fundamentalist bible college for a few semesters until I became so utterly appalled and disenchanted that I gave up on it (them?). They were as much a cult as anything they considered cultish.

My sig on my deviant art account (wavefreak.deviantart.com) says it pretty well.

"When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm freehand baby!"

Yea what he was talking about was a tautology not a stereotype.  An example of a stereotype for atheists would be : Immoral,baby eating, satan worshippers.