Arrogance and Intelligence

jread
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Arrogance and Intelligence

My recent encounters with the intellectual community (generalizing) has been very disheartening. The amount of arrogance in the human intelligence I've recently encountered saddens me. We as human beings need to get over ourselves. We don't have everything figured out. No matter how many theories, religions, ideologies we come up with, we will always be weak and prisoners to our subjective experience as a human being. The larger picture will always be out of reach from our hands of comprehension.

Every arrogant thinker who is over-confident and over-secure in his/her own intelligence needs to be leveled and humbled. The very essence of learning is not to one day think that you have learned everything, it is to keep learning, perpetually. Therefore, if we are perpetually learning, we are unavoidably forever ignorant of something. Everyone, on all levels, in all belief systems, need to know that they don't have all the answers. The world needs to purge itself of 'know it alls' and arrogant learners. May humbleness one day again be admired, while arrogance be shunned and revolted. Awake to your ignorance arrogant learners, you have stale coffee brewed in your kitchen.

 

[Disclaimer: I want it to be known that this post applies to both arrogant theist and arrogant atheist and arrogant 'whatever else someone can be labeled as']

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


Vastet
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My arrogance is the direct

My arrogance is the direct consequence of 25 years of theist arrogance. It serves me well in the destruction of theist arrogance. The fact that it bothers you pleases me.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Yellow_Number_Five
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jread wrote:My recent

jread wrote:

My recent encounters with the intellectual community (generalizing) has been very disheartening. The amount of arrogance in the human intelligence I've recently encountered saddens me. We as human beings need to get over ourselves. We don't have everything figured out. No matter how many theories, religions, ideologies we come up with, we will always be weak and prisoners to our subjective experience as a human being. The larger picture will always be out of reach from our hands of comprehension.

 You say a lot about what is and will "always" be here. I think you are way of base. Yes, mankind has its foibles, yes, we don't know everything and never will. But we are becoming ever more enlightened. Only a few hundred years ago, we cowered when lightening struck and attributed that power to unseen masters of our universe. Today that same thing powers the very machine with which I converse to you with.

 The "larger" picture is forever SHINKING. I don't think it is out of reach. I DO think we are progressing as a species. Whatever arrogance we may thump our chests with as individuals is dwarfed by the very real progress and understanding we have achieved as a whole.

 Your experience in our science forums ought to tell you as much, and having seen you post there, I'm frankly baffled by your words here. Have you seen arrogance there? Have you seen anything other than an honest representation of the current state of our knowledge? Have you ever seen myself or any of the other actual scientists on this board (or even enthusiastic laymen for than manner) speak in arrogant or absolutist terms?

A truely knowledgable person, in my experience, is one of the most humble people you can meet - especially in the sciences; if only because we understand such knowledge is provisional.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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jread wrote: My recent

jread wrote:
My recent encounters with the intellectual community (generalizing) has been very disheartening. The amount of arrogance in the human intelligence I've recently encountered saddens me.
Projecting?

People see what they look for.

Others will interpret the arrogance you see as something else or as nothing at all.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Quote: My recent encounters

Quote:
My recent encounters with the intellectual community (generalizing) has been very disheartening. The amount of arrogance in the human intelligence I've recently encountered saddens me.

You should see the arrogance of the idiot community. It's not disheartening, it's outright scary!

Quote:
We as human beings need to get over ourselves.

Yes, that's what I always tell believers who shun me or my beliefs.

Quote:
We don't have everything figured out. No matter how many theories, religions, ideologies we come up with, we will always be weak and prisoners to our subjective experience as a human being. The larger picture will always be out of reach from our hands of comprehension.

Yes, that is so... That's why I choose the atheist view: Occam's Razor. Why do something completely unnecessary with my time (prayer, meditation, worship, sacrifice), when I can use it in a far more productive and entertaining way?

Quote:
Every arrogant thinker who is over-confident and over-secure in his/her own intelligence needs to be leveled and humbled.

Well... that's one thing that won't happen too often regarding theist-atheist debates... that, of course, IF the over-confident arrogant intelligent actually has a good reason to be over-confident.

Quote:
The very essence of learning is not to one day think that you have learned everything, it is to keep learning, perpetually.

Ahem... "For I am the Alpha and the Omega"... "I am the truth"... etc.... do these sound familliar? I don't think it was the atheist or the scientific community that said them.

Quote:
Therefore, if we are perpetually learning, we are unavoidably forever ignorant of something.

So that's the theist excuse then? Pretend to know the whole truth, so that they won't be perpetually learning, so that they will never feel ignorant? I must say, it does explain a lot...

Quote:
Everyone, on all levels, in all belief systems, need to know that they don't have all the answers.

I couldn't agree more. Will you tell that to the higher clergy?

Quote:
The world needs to purge itself of 'know it alls' and arrogant learners. May humbleness one day again be admired, while arrogance be shunned and revolted.

I see no use for this. There is no humiliation in the absence of arrogance. And I personally like very few things better than completely humiliating people that deserve it.

Quote:
Awake to your ignorance arrogant learners, you have stale coffee brewed in your kitchen.

I'd like to see theists do the same as well. I can make them espressos, if they don't like normal coffee...

Quote:
[Disclaimer: I want it to be known that this post applies to both arrogant theist and arrogant atheist and arrogant 'whatever else someone can be labeled as']

My respects for that.

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


jread
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Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

Your experience in our science forums ought to tell you as much, and having seen you post there, I'm frankly baffled by your words here. Have you seen arrogance there? Have you seen anything other than an honest representation of the current state of our knowledge? Have you ever seen myself or any of the other actual scientists on this board (or even enthusiastic laymen for than manner) speak in arrogant or absolutist terms?

 

 

This post was mainly motivated by things I've read and witnessed. The general conversations that I've been personally involved in are not the target of this post. Knowing a subject or area of study isn't arrogance. But, knowing something and acting in an arrogant way frustrates me.  Don't worry yellow, my experiences on this site as a whole have been positive on my end. Especially on the science forum Eye-wink

Honestly, like some people have noted, it's just arrogance in general that bothers me. Theistic arrogance has unfortunately gone on for so many years as someone noted above. I just really want arrogance to go away...sooner rather than later... on all levels...I'm sure it's all just wishful thinking though.

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


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I kind of wish that I would

I kind of wish that I would have encountered more arrogance from the scientific community growing up.  The fact that evolution vs creation is even a 'scientific' debate in this country shows shows that real scientists have been too timid im my opinion....  The fact that we are not funding what is probably the most promising line of medical research in this generation (human embryonic stem cells) because we can't have an open discussion because of religous views shows me scientists have been to shy...  I don't mind arrogance when it comes from a genius who knows his field of study better than 99.9% of the rest of the population. (ie Richard Dawkins)


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Andyy wrote:

Andyy wrote:
I kind of wish that I would have encountered more arrogance from the scientific community growing up. The fact that evolution vs creation is even a 'scientific' debate in this country shows shows that real scientists have been too timid im my opinion.... The fact that we are not funding what is probably the most promising line of medical research in this generation (human embryonic stem cells) because we can't have an open discussion because of religous views shows me scientists have been to shy... I don't mind arrogance when it comes from a genius who knows his field of study better than 99.9% of the rest of the population. (ie Richard Dawkins)
I agree. Technical people in all fields have a tendancy to try to be too precise, and too often what ends up happening is that people, particularly business people and 'absolutists' of all stripes, see it as a lack of confidence. They figure that since the person isn't 100% certain, they have no idea what they're talking about, that it's just hypothesis (ie "theory" ) and conjecture, and then don't pay further attention. Just look how many theist arguments hinge on the most miniscule and unrealistic of doubts and declare (even if only implicitly) their beliefs superior because they are absolute!

The fact of the matter is, though, that I've not seen more arrogance than what comes from christians. Just take a look at "The Root of All Evil?" when Dawkins interviewed Haggart. It kind of blew me away when he told Dawkins not to be arrogant, and then in the same breath said "If you only knew what I know, you could be great like me!" - if that's not the epitome of arrogance, I don't know what is. Generally speaking, I would say there's nothing more arrogant than saying that you have absolute truth, and that's not something you get from science. I can see how some might think that in certain situations but, as mentioned above, some of that is a necessary evil that will remain until people stop thinking in absolutist terms.


Yellow_Number_Five
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jread

jread wrote:
Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

Your experience in our science forums ought to tell you as much, and having seen you post there, I'm frankly baffled by your words here. Have you seen arrogance there? Have you seen anything other than an honest representation of the current state of our knowledge? Have you ever seen myself or any of the other actual scientists on this board (or even enthusiastic laymen for than manner) speak in arrogant or absolutist terms?

 

 

This post was mainly motivated by things I've read and witnessed. The general conversations that I've been personally involved in are not the target of this post. Knowing a subject or area of study isn't arrogance. But, knowing something and acting in an arrogant way frustrates me. Don't worry yellow, my experiences on this site as a whole have been positive on my end. Especially on the science forum Eye-wink

Honestly, like some people have noted, it's just arrogance in general that bothers me. Theistic arrogance has unfortunately gone on for so many years as someone noted above. I just really want arrogance to go away...sooner rather than later... on all levels...I'm sure it's all just wishful thinking though.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification - I tend to agree with you on said points. 

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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I think I've seen some of

I think I've seen some of the threads you're talking about and I think it's more impatience than arrogance. It might seem like arrogance on your end, but if you were to see the bigger picture then you might see it more as impatience.

There are two sources to this impatience:
1) Some of these theistic arguments have been offered over and over and some people get sick of having to answer the same old htings again.
2) These arguments are related to religious political movements that bring out arrogant and unpleasant characters. When someone has dealt with many of this kind, it is easy to project such characteristics onto those who use similar arguments. It happens to the best of us.

If you're thinking of some events in a recent thread about 'causation' then think nothing of it. These clashes happen in forums - it is the nature of debate, that people get passionate and/or frustrated. In the meantime, could you look up my answer in that thread. I thought it was a pretty good one and wanted to see what you made of it! Smiling