Family Values in the Bible.

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Family Values in the Bible.
  1. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes.--19:18
  2. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father -- 19:32
  3. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose -- 19:33
  4. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father -- 19:34
  5. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose -- 19:35
  6. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. -- 19:36
  7. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering. -- 22:2
  8. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- 22:10
  9. And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son's mandrakes. -- 30:15
  10. Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes. And he lay with her that night. -- 30:16

    Exodus

  11. If thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.--4:23
  12. For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.--12:12
  13. At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.--12:29
  14. The LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast.--13:15
  15. He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.--21:15
  16. And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.--22:24
  17. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side ... and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.--32:27

    Leviticus

  18. For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death.--20:9
  19. And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death.--20:12
  20. If a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they.--20:14
  21. And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.--21:9
  22. If thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee.--25:39
  23. Of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families ... and they shall be your possession.--25:45
  24. I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.--26:16
  25. I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children.--26:22
  26. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.--26:29

    Numbers

  27. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.--31:15-19

    Deuteronomy

  28. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.--2:34
  29. And we utterly destroyed them, ... utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.--3:6
  30. I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.--5:9
  31. And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women ... shalt thou take unto thyself.--20:13-14
  32. And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her .... Thou shalt go in unto her.--21:11-13
  33. If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated ....--21:15
  34. If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ....--22:13
  35. I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid. Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city.--22:14-15
  36. These are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.--22:18-21
  37. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die.--22:20-21
  38. If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die.--22:22
  39. If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city.--22:23-24
  40. A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation. -- 23:2
  41. When two men strive together on with another, and the wife of the one ... putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.--25:11-12
  42. Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body.--28:18
  43. Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her.--28:30
  44. Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long.--28:32
  45. Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.--28:41
  46. And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters.--28:53
  47. So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat.--28:55
  48. The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter, and toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them.--28:56-57
  49. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.--32:25

    Joshua

  50. And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.--6:21

    Judges

  51. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you.--19:24
  52. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning.--19:25

    1 Samuel

  53. And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies.--18:25
  54. Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.--18:27

    2 Samuel

  55. Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.--12:11
  56. Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.... And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.--12:14-15
  57. And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.--13:11
  58. Go in unto thy father's concubines, which he hath left to keep the house .... So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel.--16:21-22
  59. Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose.--21:6

    1 Kings

  60. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines.--11:3
  61. He laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son Segub, according to the word of the LORD.--16:34
  62. Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.--21:29

    2 Kings

  63. As he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.--2:23-24
  64. The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever.--5:27
  65. This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him--6:28-29
  66. They took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets, and sent him them to Jezreel.--10:7
  67. Therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.--15:16

    2 Chronicles

  68. Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods. And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out.--21:14

    Esther

  69. Then said Esther, If it please the king ... let Haman's ten sons be hanged upon the gallows. And the king commanded it so to be done ... and they hanged Haman's ten sons--9:13

    Psalms

  70. Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.--109:10
  71. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.--137:9
  72. To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever.--136:10

    Proverbs

  73. He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.--13:24
  74. Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.--22:15
  75. Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.--23:13-14
  76. The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.--30:17

    Isaiah

  77. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.--13:16
  78. Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.--13:18
  79. Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.--14:21

    Jeremiah

  80. Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine.--11:22
  81. Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land ... with drunkenness. And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.--13:13-14
  82. And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.--14:16
  83. Deliver up their children to the famine, and pour out their blood by the force of the sword; and let their wives be bereaved of their children, and be widows; and let their men be put to death; let their young men be slain by the sword in battle.--18:21
  84. And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend.--19:9
  85. With thee also will I break in pieces man and woman; and with thee will I break in pieces old and young; and with thee will I break in pieces the young man and the maid.--51:22

    Lamentations

  86. Behold, O LORD, and consider to whom thou hast done this. Shall the women eat their fruit, and children?--2:20
  87. The young and the old lie on the ground in the streets: my virgins and my young men are fallen by the sword; thou hast slain them in the day of thine anger; thou hast killed, and not pitied.--2:21
  88. The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat.--4:10

    Ezekiel

  89. The fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers.--5:10
  90. Let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.--9:5-6
  91. And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.--23:25
  92. And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters.--23:47
  93. And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD.--26:6
  94. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.--38:21

    Hosea

  95. I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms.--2:4
  96. Therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.--4:13
  97. Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.--9:14
  98. Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.--9:16
  99. Their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.--13:16

    Amos

  100. A man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name.--2:7

    Zechariah

  101. And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.--13:3

    Matthew

  102. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. -- 10:35-36
  103. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. -- 10:37
  104. God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.--15:4

    Mark

  105. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death.--7:10

    Luke

  106. If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.--14:26

    Revelation

  107. I will kill her children with death.--2:23

djneibarger
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nice compilation. god's

nice compilation. god's really into sex and killing children, it would seem.


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I assume this is a vote...I

I assume this is a vote...I vote for #107...I love it.  I will kill her children with death!


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I this a original

I this a original compilation or can I find this list elsewhere?  I' like to se it in a blog post.

If it's yours I'd gladdly provide credit and a link...

Who needs God when you have Chopin?


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Click the link to the verses

Here is their homepage:

 

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

 


tree-sitter
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  Yep, you can make the

  Yep, you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say if you take it out of context.  Look, why can't you all stop being so lame.  If you don't want to believe in God, fine, but stop all this crap about God being all about violence.  Most of those verses were taken out of context and I can explain all of them but I won't because you don't really want to know the truth. 

 


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tree-sitter wrote: Yep,

tree-sitter wrote:

Yep, you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say if you take it out of context. Look, why can't you all stop being so lame. If you don't want to believe in God, fine, but stop all this crap about God being all about violence. Most of those verses were taken out of context and I can explain all of them but I won't because you don't really want to know the truth.

 

 

You can explain all you want but don't expect anybody to listen to your rants. 


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Duh!  One of my faorte

Duh!  One of my faorte bookmaks! thanks!


tree-sitter
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Dave_G wrote: tree-sitter

Dave_G wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

Yep, you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say if you take it out of context. Look, why can't you all stop being so lame. If you don't want to believe in God, fine, but stop all this crap about God being all about violence. Most of those verses were taken out of context and I can explain all of them but I won't because you don't really want to know the truth.

 

 

You can explain all you want but don't expect anybody to listen to your rants.

 

Were you not listening to what I just said.  I am not going to explain it because no one will listen and you have already made up your mind.  I just know that your opinoin in this matter isn't that valid because many of those verses are in the wrong context. \

 

End of story. 


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tree-sitter wrote: ...I

tree-sitter wrote:

...I can explain all of them but I won't because you don't really want to know the truth. 

 

This is coming from the person who posted fake photos and claimed these photos were proof of giants mentioned in the bible.


tree-sitter
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MrRage wrote: tree-sitter

MrRage wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

...I can explain all of them but I won't because you don't really want to know the truth.

 

This is coming from the person who posted fake photos and claimed these photos were proof of giants mentioned in the bible.

 

You know what man... you are right but everyone makes mistakes.  I posted pictures as proof of giants and some of them were proven to be hoaxs.  I did not know that I was posting faulty photos and I made a stupid decision... I am not afraid to admit that.

 But this post is no different.  This guy has taken scriptures out of context and made the bible say something that it's not.  He is trying to make it seem like God is all for incest and the murder of children.  So, Mr Rage, I think you are a pretty respectable guy but how is this any different?   This is just as faulty as those photos.

 

There is a proper explanation to all of these scripture but I'm not even going to waste my time proving that.  Sorry.

 


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If you are so sure you can

If you are so sure you can explain each and every one, go ahead and try. Saying you could but won't is a dodge and cop out. There is no explanation for the blatant killing people and children for god - there is no alternative interpretation of killing lol

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tree-sitter wrote:   This

tree-sitter wrote:
  This guy has taken scriptures out of context and made the bible say something that it's not.  He is trying to make it seem like God is all for incest and the murder of children.

Have you read the bible?

Adam and Eve have children, those children marry each other and have sex.  That is the DEFINITION OF INCEST!

Lot and his daughters.  Lot knocks up both of his daughters while drunk.  Again, the DEFINITION OF INCEST.

Noah and the ark.  After the great flood, the entire world was reduced to three sons of Noah and thier wives.  Thus in order for the world to have been re-populated there whould have to have been a LOT of INCEST!

How about killing children?  God does it all the time in the Bible.  How about the child of King David and Bath-sheba?  God struck that baby down.

There are a TON of reasons written into the Bible that make it IMPOSSIBLE to use for a moral guide. 

Who needs God when you have Chopin?


tree-sitter
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thraxas wrote: If you are

thraxas wrote:
If you are so sure you can explain each and every one, go ahead and try. Saying you could but won't is a dodge and cop out. There is no explanation for the blatant killing people and children for god - there is no alternative interpretation of killing lol

 

I see your point but I am still not going to explain any of this.  All I will say is that each and every scripture about the killing of children is taken completely out of context to prove the posters biased view.  I see how it could be a cop out to refuse to answer this but, lets me honest, no one on this website is intrested in the true meaning to the bible.

You can take 1% of the bible to try and state the overall message but that doesn't make it so.  If anyone wants the true context of these verses, contact me privately, otherwise I don't care to waste time explaining it to people that don't want to listen anyways.  Peace. 


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tree-sitter wrote:   Yep,

tree-sitter wrote:

  Yep, you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say if you take it out of context.  Look, why can't you all stop being so lame.  If you don't want to believe in God, fine, but stop all this crap about God being all about violence.  Most of those verses were taken out of context and I can explain all of them but I won't because you don't really want to know the truth. 

 

Is this the point where you turn and say "Oh but the Bible isn't literal, the overall message of the stories is nice." You're cherry picking! You can't accept one part of the book without accepting all of it, contradictory or not. But come, I wish to know the truth, in what way is it out of context?


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Dave_G wrote: Behold now,

Dave_G wrote:
  1. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes.--19:18
  2. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father -- 19:32
  3. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose -- 19:33
  4. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father -- 19:34
  5. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose -- 19:35
  6. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. -- 19:36

 These are all decisions made by people rather then God. God does not control what people decide to do. The writer of Gen. is simply recording history and showing that all men have flaws and will commit sins.

 

Quote:

7. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering. -- 22:2

8. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- 22:10

 

Gen 17:16 "And I will bless her and also give you a son by her; then I will bless her and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be from her."

Gen 17:19 "Then God said: 'No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covernant, and with his descendants after him.'"

Gen. 22:5 "And Abraham said to his young men, 'stay here with the donkey, the lad and I will go yonder and worship and we will come back to you.'"

Gen 22:8 "And Abraham said, 'My son, God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering.'"

 Abraham knows Isaac is safe and isn't going to die. Abraham simply does what God asked, knowing God is going to stop him.  

The final verses mentioned from Gen. once again records history and not what God believes.


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But these are the good moral

But these are the good moral people who God loves right? Also would you care to tell me where it says Abraham knows Isaac will be spared?


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You cannot however deny

You cannot however deny that god ordered the Israelites to kill all the unclean people when they were running around conquering, raping etc. That cannot be taken out of context because it is what it is - it is a supposedly loving god ordering the deaths of thousands - real loving right?

 

What about how god just zapped those people to death that touched the ark? Yeah he said not to - but come on - death?? Real loving right. Think about it this way - he is omniscient right? He knew before they were born that he would tell them not to touch the ark, but they woudl anyway, and that he would then kill them. So essentially he created them knowing they would be killed by him and probably b urn in hell. Another example of a lovely Yahweh 

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I get a kick out of people

Laughing I get a kick out of people who complain about "taking the bible out of context." Put it in context and it's still about murder, mysogony, rape, infancide, and tribal warfare!

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rab wrote: I get a kick

rab wrote:
Laughing I get a kick out of people who complain about "taking the bible out of context." Put it in context and it's still about murder, mysogony, rape, infancide, and tribal warfare!

 

Read the Sermon on the Mount.


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wavefreak

wavefreak wrote:

 

 

Read the Sermon on the Mount.

 

 

 

Sorry most people here don't like historical fiction. 


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rab wrote: I get a kick

rab wrote:
Laughing I get a kick out of people who complain about "taking the bible out of context." Put it in context and it's still about murder, mysogony, rape, infancide, and tribal warfare!

You forgot incest.


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thraxas wrote: You cannot

thraxas wrote:

You cannot however deny that god ordered the Israelites to kill all the unclean people when they were running around conquering, raping etc. That cannot be taken out of context because it is what it is - it is a supposedly loving god ordering the deaths of thousands - real loving right?

 

You are absolutely right about that one man.  This had been a very real struggle with me in my faith in God "How can a loving God order the death of men, women and children".  After years of seeking the answer I finnaly discovered why he allowed that.  I am not really going to give the reason here, "Don't cast your pearl amongst swine lest they turn around and trample it".  That is exactly what you would do, so I am keeping this truth to myself.  You are not honestly seeking the answer so I am not going to share it with you.  I don't mean to disrespect you guys but I am sure you understand where I am coming from.

 

I know the reason God allowed that and it was a VERY VERY good one.  Thats it...  


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Jacob Cordingley

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

Yep, you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say if you take it out of context. Look, why can't you all stop being so lame. If you don't want to believe in God, fine, but stop all this crap about God being all about violence. Most of those verses were taken out of context and I can explain all of them but I won't because you don't really want to know the truth.

 

Is this the point where you turn and say "Oh but the Bible isn't literal, the overall message of the stories is nice." You're cherry picking! You can't accept one part of the book without accepting all of it, contradictory or not. But come, I wish to know the truth, in what way is it out of context?

 

I am not really white-washing over the violence in the old-testiment or saying it isn't litteral, I am just saying that just because the bible documents slaughter and incest doesn't mean it is encouraging it.  If you would like to know the truth, please contact me privately and I would gladly share it.  I just don't see the need to explain it here only to have people scoff at it, ya know? 


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I think you should tell us

I think you should tell us publicly why you think it to be out of context. If you insist, I will contact you privately.


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tree-sitter wrote:   I

tree-sitter wrote:
 

I know the reason God allowed that and it was a VERY VERY good one.  Thats it...



You claim you do. You've said it many times.... However, you say you won't explain because we'll laugh at it... We're already laughing because we don't think you even know.

There are people on here. (Athiests) Who have read the bible cover to cover. Is the reason in the bible?


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tree-sitter wrote: I am

tree-sitter wrote:

I am not really white-washing over the violence in the old-testiment or saying it isn't litteral, I am just saying that just because the bible documents slaughter and incest doesn't mean it is encouraging it. If you would like to know the truth, please contact me privately and I would gladly share it. I just don't see the need to explain it here only to have people scoff at it, ya know?

This argument might work for some of the aforementioned examples, but not all of them. What about the ones where god is the one who is doing the killing or requiring it? What about the examples such as Psalm 137 "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

The reality is that there is no answer other than the typical response that we should all be happy that god allows us to live at all considering how disgusting and depraved we are and he has the right to end our lives at any moment. That is what we find offensive and the reason why we react in this manner. Anybody who isn't trying to protect themselves from the fact that god is an oppressive, murderous tyrant will view those passages in the same way. 


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tree-sitter wrote: I am

tree-sitter wrote:

I am not really white-washing over the violence in the old-testiment or saying it isn't litteral, I am just saying that just because the bible documents slaughter and incest doesn't mean it is encouraging it. If you would like to know the truth, please contact me privately and I would gladly share it. I just don't see the need to explain it here only to have people scoff at it, ya know?

There is a passage in the Bible which says if you rape a woman your punishment is that you have to marry her.  Imagine that advice. You see a really attractive woman but she wants nothing to do with you.  So all you need to do is rape her then she is forced into a marriage with you as a result.  Saves that hassle of having to date.

Of course the Bible says that if she is raped in the city and cries out for help then she isn't punished (if she doesn't cry for help then she is stoned to death).  If she is raped in the country and she cries for help, well, too bad, she is stoned to death anyway.

But anyway, I digress.  The Bible says rape is a perfectly acceptable means to acquire a wife.  Perhaps the belief is that you shouldn't rape someone you don't want to spend the rest of your life with.  In any case then, you should just rape her in the countryside if you don't want to marry her. 


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Hagane Kakashi

Hagane Kakashi wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

I know the reason God allowed that and it was a VERY VERY good one. Thats it...



You claim you do. You've said it many times.... However, you say you won't explain because we'll laugh at it... We're already laughing because we don't think you even know.

There are people on here. (Athiests) Who have read the bible cover to cover. Is the reason in the bible?

 

Dude, you are supposed to be a theist and you don't already know these things?  Do me a favor and decide who you are going to side with, the christians or the athiests.  I am saying that most of those verses are all taken out of context.  They are using extreamly small fragments of the bible to try of speak for the whole text.

 

Fine, I will explain it all and I don't even care what people have to say about it:

1. the incest between Lot and his daughters was involantary.  His daughters got him drunk and basically raped him to keep there seed going... pretty disgusting.  However, the bible is not saying that incest is a good thing, it is mearly documenting an event in history.

2. The old-judah laws concerning the killing of witches and homosexuals and people who disobey there parents are no longer in effect.  Thats not to say that the whole law is abolished, like many Christians believe.  Only parts of it.  You can know which laws are done away with by what Jesus said.  For the sake of keeping this short, I will just say that Jesus did away with all the laws that required blood for sin because he already paid that price.

3. The verses about killing children are taken grossly out of context.  If you look at what the bible is saying in those passages, it is describing the evil nation of Babylon being overcome by it's enemies.  The prophets are fortelling how the conqueres will kill there children and rape there women because thats what happens in an emperalistic conquest.  God is not saying he loves the shedding of innocent blood, actually the bible says the opposite.

 

As soon as I have some time, I am going to come back and overwhelm this forum with scriptures that prove you have taken this out of context.  I feel that it is very important in all fairness.  Peace. 


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tree-sitter wrote: Dude,

tree-sitter wrote:

Dude, you are supposed to be a theist and you don't already know these things?  Do me a favor and decide who you are going to side with, the christians or the athiests. 
 

Yeah, I'm not taking anyones side here, nor will I do a favor for you Wink. I'm in the middle right now.


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kellym78

kellym78 wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

I am not really white-washing over the violence in the old-testiment or saying it isn't litteral, I am just saying that just because the bible documents slaughter and incest doesn't mean it is encouraging it. If you would like to know the truth, please contact me privately and I would gladly share it. I just don't see the need to explain it here only to have people scoff at it, ya know?

This argument might work for some of the aforementioned examples, but not all of them. What about the ones where god is the one who is doing the killing or requiring it? What about the examples such as Psalm 137 "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

The reality is that there is no answer other than the typical response that we should all be happy that god allows us to live at all considering how disgusting and depraved we are and he has the right to end our lives at any moment. That is what we find offensive and the reason why we react in this manner. Anybody who isn't trying to protect themselves from the fact that god is an oppressive, murderous tyrant will view those passages in the same way.

 

Thanks for asking this question.

 

I really don't mean to pick fights or offend any of you.  I would be wrong is I sat here and said that God is not wrathful and vengeful but I really think we are talking about something different here, right?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of this forum to say that God enjoys the murder of the innocents?  I mean, in that point I would fervently debate but If we are just talking about the deadly judgment of the wicked, then yes... that is a side of God just as real as his love and mercy.

Thats an important verse you brought up.  In that short Psalm, David is prophecying about Isreal's captivity in Babylon.  When he speaks of the children being dashed on rocks, he is speaking of the people that brought down Babylon while Isreal was there.  The Persians were the ones who invaded Babylon destroy it, so David is saying that the conquesters were happy to kill even there children.  It is a very tragic reality of our world, that conquest comes with murder of the innocent.  Even our nation was founded on the murder of innocent nations (and there oppression even continues today).  The bible is very clear, however, that this is not the true will of God.  In God's world that is to come, the bible says "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock.  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain."  Isaiah 65:25


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Dave_G wrote: Revelation I

Dave_G wrote:

Revelation

I will kill her children with death.--2:23

That's either the most redundant threat ever, or the awesomest. 


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Hagane Kakashi

Hagane Kakashi wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

Dude, you are supposed to be a theist and you don't already know these things? Do me a favor and decide who you are going to side with, the christians or the athiests.

Yeah, I'm not taking anyones side here, nor will I do a favor for you Wink. I'm in the middle right now.

 

Okay.  Good luck to you, friend.  If you want my personal advice.  If you are searching for God be VERY careful about the churchs you go into.  The best way to find God, is through prayer and fasting.  8 out of 10 churchs in America are poison.  Thats just my advice.  Peace 


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tree-sitter wrote: Dude,

tree-sitter wrote:

Dude, you are supposed to be a theist ...Do me a favor and decide who you are going to side with, the christians or the athiests.

wtf? Where do you get the idea that everyone tagged as theist has to agree with you?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: tree-sitter

AiiA wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

Dude, you are supposed to be a theist ...Do me a favor and decide who you are going to side with, the christians or the athiests.

wtf? Where do you get the idea that everyone tagged as theist has to agree with you?

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding, bro.  It's not about what I agree with, it's just about the plain fact that God hates the murder of innocents. 


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tree-sitter wrote:   The

tree-sitter wrote:

  The best way to find God, is through prayer and fasting.   



Tch. Sorry my friend, due to my fast metabolism, I must eat 6 square meals a day plus snacks. Fasting is not an option. And in order to remember to pray, I'd have to set an alarm...


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Hagane Kakashi

Hagane Kakashi wrote:
tree-sitter wrote:

The best way to find God, is through prayer and fasting.



Tch. Sorry my friend, due to my fast metabolism, I must eat 6 square meals a day plus snacks. Fasting is not an option. And in order to remember to pray, I'd have to set an alarm...

 

I know what you mean, I have a very fast metabolism too.  I do know of one alternative.  It's the master cleanse fast; you drink a mixture of lemon water, Honey and Cayanne pepper.  The honey and lemon give you body the needed sugars and nutrients you need.  Most of the time, I have to go on gain wieght diets to put on some pounds, lol. 


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tree-sitter wrote:Hagane

tree-sitter wrote:

I know what you mean, I have a very fast metabolism too.  I do know of one alternative.  It's the master cleanse fast; you drink a mixture of lemon water, Honey and Cayanne pepper.  The honey and lemon give you body the needed sugars and nutrients you need.  Most of the time, I have to go on gain wieght diets to put on some pounds, lol. 


...My mom tried that once and got sick.


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Dave_G wrote: wavefreak

Dave_G wrote:
wavefreak wrote:

 

 

Read the Sermon on the Mount.

 

 

 

Sorry most people here don't like historical fiction.

 

So historical fiction is fine when you want to make a list of crap to bash Christians but you can reject it when it suits you?

 

How rational. 


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wavefreak wrote: Dave_G

wavefreak wrote:
Dave_G wrote:
wavefreak wrote:

 

 

Read the Sermon on the Mount.

 

 

 

Sorry most people here don't like historical fiction.

 

So historical fiction is fine when you want to make a list of crap to bash Christians but you can reject it when it suits you?

 

How rational. 

We reject it as historical fiction that Christians happen to believe!! So we can both use it to mock and reject it!


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Jacob Cordingley

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
wavefreak wrote:
Dave_G wrote:
wavefreak wrote:

 

 

Read the Sermon on the Mount.

 

 

 

Sorry most people here don't like historical fiction.

 

So historical fiction is fine when you want to make a list of crap to bash Christians but you can reject it when it suits you?

 

How rational.

We reject it as historical fiction that Christians happen to believe!! So we can both use it to mock and reject it!

 

Oh. So atheists indulge in irrational emotianal gratification when it suits them? And yet they can't comprehend how someone can be a theist - it's just so irrational.  


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wavefreak wrote: Jacob

wavefreak wrote:
Jacob Cordingley wrote:
wavefreak wrote:
Dave_G wrote:
wavefreak wrote:

 

 

Read the Sermon on the Mount.

 

 

 

Sorry most people here don't like historical fiction.

 

So historical fiction is fine when you want to make a list of crap to bash Christians but you can reject it when it suits you?

 

How rational.

We reject it as historical fiction that Christians happen to believe!! So we can both use it to mock and reject it!

 

Oh. So atheists indulge in irrational emotianal gratification when it suits them? And yet they can't comprehend how someone can be a theist - it's just so irrational.

The difference? We know when we're experiencing emotional gratification and not mistaking it for "truth" and the sole means of salvation for the human race.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote: The

jcgadfly wrote:

The difference? We know when we're experiencing emotional gratification and not mistaking it for "truth" and the sole means of salvation for the human race.

 

Wow. So even your experience of the irrational is superior to theists? Fucking amazing.  


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There is a clear problem

There is a clear problem with taking verses out of context. Most of what you guys are talking about is simply recording historical events.


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God loves everyone,

God loves everyone, including sinners. The only thing God hates is Sin.

Abraham tells his compainions that he will return with Isaac. Also God told Abraham that Isaac would have many desendants. Isaac wasn't even married at this point in time and last I checked, dead people can't have children. Abraham tells Isaac that God will provide the lamb for the sacrifice.


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Quote: God loves everyone,

Quote:
God loves everyone, including sinners. The only thing God hates is Sin

 

Then why the heck did he create it? If god is supposedly infite and all knowing, he knew he would hate sin. Thus, he created sin, on purpose to annoy himself so he could kill people for it and make them burn in hell? Sounds like a pretty sadistic god to me.  

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simple theist

simple theist wrote:
Dave_G wrote:
  1. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes.--19:18
  2. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father -- 19:32
  3. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose -- 19:33
  4. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father -- 19:34
  5. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose -- 19:35
  6. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. -- 19:36

These are all decisions made by people rather then God. God does not control what people decide to do.

One wonders, however, why a god would bother to include such 'immorality' in his wonderous book considering how people would use these biblical figures as heroic examples to follow.

Quote:

The writer of Gen. is simply recording history and showing that all men have flaws and will commit sins.

That's an ad hoc rationale.

How will you do in response to this:

Slay and utterly destroy after them, says the Lord, and do all that I have commanded you.
- Jeremiah 50:21

"Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger...Whoever is found will be thrust through and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished." - Isaiah 13:9, 13:15

"I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with your flowing blood..." Ezekiel 32:5

'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women...'" - Ezekiel 9:5

 

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'


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thraxas wrote: Quote: God

thraxas wrote:

Quote:
God loves everyone, including sinners. The only thing God hates is Sin

 

Then why the heck did he create it? If god is supposedly infite and all knowing, he knew he would hate sin. Thus, he created sin, on purpose to annoy himself so he could kill people for it and make them burn in hell? Sounds like a pretty sadistic god to me.

God did not create sin. Sin is the result of doing something that is evil. God did not create evil. Evil is a result of doing something not good. God simply gave you the option of choosing to not do good. AS a result you sin.


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Quote:

Quote:
God did not create sin. Sin is the result of doing something that is evil. God did not create evil. Evil is a result of doing something not good. God simply gave you the option of choosing to not do good. AS a result you sin.

 

Good try, but no cigar. By theistic claims god is infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent. He is the creator of everything, the uncaused cause. Therefore, he must be the creator of sin. This is simple logic. How can there possibly be something in the universe that god did not create? This is an inherent contradiction of the god hypothesis. Are you now claiming that humans created sin? This defies your own logic of a creator god.

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thraxas wrote: Quote: God

thraxas wrote:

Quote:
God did not create sin. Sin is the result of doing something that is evil. God did not create evil. Evil is a result of doing something not good. God simply gave you the option of choosing to not do good. AS a result you sin.

 

Good try, but no cigar. By theistic claims god is infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent. He is the creator of everything, the uncaused cause. Therefore, he must be the creator of sin. This is simple logic. How can there possibly be something in the universe that god did not create? This is an inherent contradiction of the god hypothesis. Are you now claiming that humans created sin? This defies your own logic of a creator god.

Precisely. If there is a potential, this 'god' must have created it. If there is an option, then it can only exist as an option because of this 'god'

Theists usually invoke 'free will' at this point, but the argument again suffers from the same false assumption: that something can exist outside of an omnipotent creator - 'free will' itself would be created by this 'god', along with its character, and your own character.... i.e. an omnipotent omniscient creator must be perfectly responsible for his own creation.

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'


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thraxas wrote: Quote: God

thraxas wrote:

Quote:
God did not create sin. Sin is the result of doing something that is evil. God did not create evil. Evil is a result of doing something not good. God simply gave you the option of choosing to not do good. AS a result you sin.

 

Good try, but no cigar. By theistic claims god is infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent. He is the creator of everything, the uncaused cause. Therefore, he must be the creator of sin. This is simple logic. How can there possibly be something in the universe that god did not create? This is an inherent contradiction of the god hypothesis. Are you now claiming that humans created sin? This defies your own logic of a creator god.

God did not create good either. Good and Evil are concepts. Concepts are not created, they are defined. Good and Evil must be defined by someone. Good and evil are oposites. Therefore when God defined good as obeying him, evil was defined as not obeying him since evil is the opposite of Good.