A Question For Theists...

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A Question For Theists...

Why do certain members of the "Body Of Christ" feel the need to "justify" or "validate" their "Faith" by trying to manufacture "scientific evidence", when Jesus Himself said:

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

There never will be scientific evidence, hence the reason for "Faith".

Why search in vain for something that God will never reveal? Is not His Grace "sufficient" for thee? We are only saved by Grace through Faith, if that faith is not enough, then do they need to re-examine their salvation?

"Non-Theist" opinions are welcomed as well of course... Smile


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Hi again,   I actually

Hi again,

 

I actually wrote a thread pertaining to the idea that those who look for a scientific proof of god don't actually have any faith in god. You can take a look at that here .

Basically, if you have FAITH in a god, no one can touch you, if you believe what you believe on faith alone, there's no way that I can ever disprove that.

The second you need to validate your beliefs with science, you've lost your 'faith'(belief without proof). 


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Maragon wrote: Basically,

Maragon wrote:

Basically, if you have FAITH in a god, no one can touch you, if you believe what you believe on faith alone, there's no way that I can ever disprove that.

The second you need to validate your beliefs with science, you've lost your 'faith'(belief without proof).

 

Exactly my point. Which is why I was so baffled that Kirk & Ray actually agreed to do a debate! They knew better! The debate was doomed from the beginning, because just the fact that a Christian would talk on God, WITHOUT the use of faith and the bible, is like talking about air, as long as you don't breathe any of it!

I will check the link to your thread and see...


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It's funny you say that

It's funny you say that because if I were to say a Muslim or Mormon told me the same thing, you would then began to rationalize your "faith" over another "faith."  The problem is that if it's just faith, then all religions that operate with faith are true, except they mostly disagree with each other.

Christians don't want to use rationality with non-theists and claim it's all faith, but when addressing another religion, suddenly they use rationality.

Also, Jesus saying that the generation was lost because it was looking for a sign is a little hypocritical considering he went around healing people all the time, feeding the masses, walking on water, and calming storms.  I think he gave plenty of signs to those who were around him to believe.


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The Daily Way

The Daily Way wrote:
Exactly my point. Which is why I was so baffled that Kirk & Ray actually agreed to do a debate! They knew better! The debate was doomed from the beginning, because just the fact that a Christian would talk on God, WITHOUT the use of faith and the bible, is like talking about air, as long as you don't breathe any of it!

 

It was Kirk and Ray's Idea. They challenged the RRS.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just clearing this up.

Almost everytime the debate is mentioned it seems people think the Atheists did the challenging.


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NamesAreHardToPick

NamesAreHardToPick wrote:

It's funny you say that because if I were to say a Muslim or Mormon told me the same thing, you would then began to rationalize your "faith" over another "faith."

And I said that where here? Do you have a permalink back to the post where I said that so that I may correct myself?

NamesAreHardToPick wrote:
Christians don't want to use rationality with non-theists and claim it's all faith, but when addressing another religion, suddenly they use rationality.

And you claim I feel and believe that way? Your source is? If I have said that, then I was wrong. But to group all "theists" together is to defeat oneself before the debate.

NamesAreHardToPick wrote:

Also, Jesus saying that the generation was lost because it was looking for a sign is a little hypocritical considering he went around healing people all the time, feeding the masses, walking on water, and calming storms. I think he gave plenty of signs to those who were around him to believe.

It was those who "tempted" God to prove Himself to "Them" that He spoke of. The Lord did His miracles for the benefit of the people that believed, not to those who demanded "proof". That generation had to be lost, so that God could begin His work with the "Gentiles", back in the Abrahamic covenant, that is well explained. A reading of the ENTIRE bible, and not just select verses will show these statments to be true.


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mindspread wrote: It was

mindspread wrote:

It was Kirk and Ray's Idea. They challenged the RRS.

Then it was a bad idea, they knew better, or should have. 


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Quote: It's funny you say

Quote:

It's funny you say that because if I were to say a Muslim or Mormon told me the same thing, you would then began to rationalize your "faith" over another "faith."

And I said that where here? Do you have a permalink back to the post where I said that so that I may correct myself?

You make a solid point, Daily. I can't find where you said you would rationalize your faith over another faith. It's possible that you are capable of using no thought whatsoever in your belief system.

For the record, would you like to respond to the folowing:

"I have 100% faith that atheism is correct. Since you have no possible way of refuting me because my faith is enough, I am right. Therefore, you are wrong. Sorry to have destroyed your entire religion, but them's the breaks, as they say in the deep south."

So.... welcome to the ranks of atheists, Daily. It'll be nice having someone with such a rapier intellect to help us slay all those religious heathens with our fine edged faith.

 

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Hambydammit wrote: For the

Hambydammit wrote:

For the record, would you like to respond to the folowing:

"I have 100% faith that atheism is correct."

To those that are not of the "Elect", Yes. Atheism is quite correct without question.

Hambydammit wrote:
Since you have no possible way of refuting me because my faith is enough, I am right.

You are right! If you are not one of the "Elect", then your faith is quite enough to serve your needs.

Hambydammit wrote:
Therefore, you are wrong.

I agreed with you? And now I am wrong? Would you rather I disagree with you? Would that be better???

 

Hambydammit wrote:
Sorry to have destroyed your entire religion,

And you did that how? Unless you are one of the "Elect", your beliefs are your own, as is the repurcussions of them.

Hambydammit wrote:
So.... welcome to the ranks of atheists, Daily.

Thank you for welcoming me to these "forums"! maybe someday I can welcome you to mine!

Hambydammit wrote:
It'll be nice having someone with such a rapier intellect

I could say the same about many I have seen here! I must be in good company huh?

Hambydammit wrote:
to help us slay all those religious heathens with our fine edged faith.

I am all for "Church Change"! Let us start with the "Hypocrites" that give my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ a bad name through their mistreatment of the unsaved!


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http://www.thedailyway.com/?

http://www.thedailyway.com/?p=166

EXODUS 20:16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

 

You shouldn't even be here according to your faith. Why would you willingly contribute money to Satan's minions?

1 Corinthians 5:13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

Who is the hypocrite?

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darth_josh

darth_josh wrote:

http://www.thedailyway.com/?p=166

EXODUS 20:16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

And where did I do that? I stated that ray & Kirk were wrong for doing the debate on my website, as I did here!

darth_josh wrote:
You shouldn't even be here according to your faith. Why would you willingly contribute money to Satan's minions?

Jesus and his disciples sat at meat with publicans and sinners, so why can't I? Give God's money to this project, and let good works be done through it!

darth_josh wrote:
1 Corinthians 5:13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Bad interpretation! That verse talks about the brothers that are still sinning in the flesh. Nice try tho!

darth_josh wrote:
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Again, nice try, but bad interpretation. Paul was speaking of those that were spreading doctrine contrary to that in the Gospel.

darth_josh wrote:
Who is the hypocrite?

 

I dunno, you tell me, you seem to be quite learned in biblical studies... Wink

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes] 


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Yeah. Check my signature. I

Yeah. Check my signature. I don't know everything, but I know why I despise your brand of faith.

Here is your false witness, hypocrite:

TheDailyWay wrote:
As for Kelly, her job was clear. Satan had her there for one purpose, and one purpose only. To glorify “sexual immorality” in the way she looked/dressed, and carried herself. Her attitude screamed of… “Serve Satan, and you can look like me girls, and as for you men, if you serve Satan, you can have girls like me.” Her pseudo-intellect was even “less than” her partner on stage. Her lack of self esteem shined through as she did nothing but ridicule, berate, and point at everyone and everything but herself the whole time. I have seen more factual arguments come from a 4th grader.

You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about these people yet you personally attack them in your messed up blog. Don't bother erasing it now.

Thank you for doing just as much to eliminate theism as Ray and Kirk.

 

BTW,

The DailyWay wrote:

darth_josh wrote:
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Again, nice try, but bad interpretation. Paul was speaking of those that were spreading doctrine contrary to that in the Gospel.

Nope. Spot on because we are speaking of a completely different doctrine than your christianity. DUH!

Get thee hence.

 

[Edited for forum rule.] 

 

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Uh, Daily, thank you, I

Uh, Daily, thank you, I think...

I admit you have me convinced that you do manage to believe without any thought whatsoever.  I can't even think of a way to begin a discussion with you, since any question I asked would require an answer that had thought behind it.

Enjoy your time on the boards.

 

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darth_josh wrote:   Here

darth_josh wrote:

 

Here is your false witness, hypocrite:

TheDailyWay wrote:
As for Kelly, her job was clear. Satan had her there for one purpose, and one purpose only. To glorify “sexual immorality” in the way she looked/dressed, and carried herself. Her attitude screamed of… “Serve Satan, and you can look like me girls, and as for you men, if you serve Satan, you can have girls like me.” Her pseudo-intellect was even “less than” her partner on stage. Her lack of self esteem shined through as she did nothing but ridicule, berate, and point at everyone and everything but herself the whole time. I have seen more factual arguments come from a 4th grader.

You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about these people yet you personally attack them in your messed up blog. Don't bother erasing it now.

False witness? To prove that you would need verification of that from either God, or Satan. Produce either. 

That post was written to a Christian audience, and a Christian audience would well understand what was written.

If you would like to debate that post, you will need to do it where the post is. This is not the venue for it. You may re-ask me questions pertaining to the debate, but you will only find me repeating what I said at my own website.

I noticed you did not post my criticisim of Ray & Kirk? Or of Sapient? A personal interest you took in isolating this one quote? 

Hit a button did it? 


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Hambydammit wrote: Uh,

Hambydammit wrote:

Uh, Daily, thank you, I think...

Your quite welcome! 

Hambydammit wrote:
I admit you have me convinced that you do manage to believe without any thought whatsoever.

 Faith is all that is required of me.

Hambydammit wrote:
I can't even think of a way to begin a discussion with you, since any question I asked would require an answer that had thought behind it.

You mean the answers I give are not standard Christian apologetics, for which you are unprepared? 

Hambydammit wrote:
Enjoy your time on the boards.

Why thank you again! 

 


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Quote: You mean the answers

Quote:
You mean the answers I give are not standard Christian apologetics, for which you are unprepared?

Honestly, Daily, no.  They're not standard Christian apologetics.  They fall well short of anything worth calling apologetics.  It's not unpreparedness that keeps me from responding.  It's recognition that you are not here to debate.  You are here to preach, and I have no time for preachers. 

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Hambydammit wrote: you

Hambydammit wrote:

you are not here to debate. You are here to preach, 

Really? I am curious as to where in these boards I have "Preached"? You have a permalink to one of my posts that can show my "Preaching"? Questions are asked, and I answer them. 

And thank you for recognizing that my answers  

Hambydammit wrote:
fall well short of anything worth calling apologetics

That tells me that the "pre-prepared" answers to "pre-prepared" Christian apologetics that are used over and over again to support the typical Ad hominem response (Such as given by you here) are of no use in rebuttal to my answers. Laughing


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The Daily Way

The Daily Way wrote:
darth_josh wrote:

 

Here is your false witness, hypocrite:

TheDailyWay wrote:
As for Kelly, her job was clear. Satan had her there for one purpose, and one purpose only. To glorify “sexual immorality” in the way she looked/dressed, and carried herself. Her attitude screamed of… “Serve Satan, and you can look like me girls, and as for you men, if you serve Satan, you can have girls like me.” Her pseudo-intellect was even “less than” her partner on stage. Her lack of self esteem shined through as she did nothing but ridicule, berate, and point at everyone and everything but herself the whole time. I have seen more factual arguments come from a 4th grader.

You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about these people yet you personally attack them in your messed up blog. Don't bother erasing it now.

False witness? To prove that you would need verification of that from either God, or Satan. Produce either.

That post was written to a Christian audience, and a Christian audience would well understand what was written.

If you would like to debate that post, you will need to do it where the post is. This is not the venue for it. You may re-ask me questions pertaining to the debate, but you will only find me repeating what I said at my own website.

I noticed you did not post my criticisim of Ray & Kirk? Or of Sapient? A personal interest you took in isolating this one quote?

Hit a button did it?

 That is probably the best blog post about me that I've seen so far. I saw it the other day and found it very amusing. I find it funny that not only am I unintelligent, but I'm also in the service of a supernatural being in which I have no belief. Tee hee. All you need to do to get into the sack with me is sacrifice a chicken...or a crocoduck. Tongue out


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kellym78 wrote: That is

kellym78 wrote:
That is probably the best blog post about me that I've seen so far. I saw it the other day and found it very amusing. I find it funny that not only am I unintelligent, but I'm also in the service of a supernatural being in which I have no belief. Tee hee. All you need to do to get into the sack with me is sacrifice a chicken...or a crocoduck. Tongue out


And I now imagine people devising a way to create and sacrifice a crocoduck. Thanks for the laugh, Kelly!

YOU shut the fuck up! WE'LL save America!