Questions about God... theists answer these!

Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Questions about God... theists answer these!

List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers.

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy

4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]
6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG
ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL
1.) God's love is superlative.
2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self.
3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture.
4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

8. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca. Each prayer includes a variety of ritualism and posturing. If a muslim astronaut were to land on Mars. Prayer to Mecca would be ritualistically impossible due to the rotation of Earth and Mars. Are Muslims stuck here in Earth? IG [Note: Since this was first posted, a Muslim astronaut was faced with this very dilemma. The authoritative clergy informed him to pray as he normally would. I see this no where in the Koran. You see? Religions must change, or die out. It's interesting to note that, in the Koran, the moon is believed to be in the lowest Heaven, the level for those that barely made it to Heaven. Surah 71:15-16. One problem, no man can supposedly get to Heaven until they die. Yet, we've been to the moon. Our satellites beyond that.]

9. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

10. Why does God entrust the spreading of 'His' word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself? - IG [Note: Surely God would have known that not everyone would be convinced by the reality[sic] of his Bible. If God loves us so much, we are all going to Heaven. If God knew that I would be an atheist, and he doesn't like atheists, he shouldn't have allowed me to come into existence. But he did. Therefore, I must be serving the will of God, for I exist. Smiling]

11. In II Kings 2-23/24 we read about God sending 2 she-bears to attack children for calling the prophet Elisa bald, which he was, the bears killed 42 of the children. Was this a good thing to do? -- Brandon and IG[Note: I have heard some argue that the boys were a gang. So?! I didn't read anywhere in that passage where they laid a finger on the guy . Also, what kind of bears are these that can kill 42 kids? Super Bears? Surely the kids had to be running away.]

12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

13. Why did God allow Lot and his daughters to escape from Sodom and Gomorra when he destroyed it only to later have Lot and his daughters engage in incestuous fornication. (Genesis 19:30-36) - Disillusioned [Note: To have intercourse with daddy dearest of course.]

14. Genesis 1:28-29 shows that man and all the animals were first created herbivorous. Most young-earth Christians (ones that believes the earth is less than 10,000 years old) say that the fall of man resulted in carnivorous animals ( hence death of animals). So, why did God punish the animal kingdom, making animals kill and devour each other because of man's mistake? Or, if you're an old-earth Christian (one that accepts that animals existed on earth for billions of years before man came on the scene) then how come fossils show carnivorous animals existed before man? - http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/contact.htm.

15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so, again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable action/thoughts. - The Infidel Guy [Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.] ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY
1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe.
2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally prior to Y.
3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being.
4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe.
[Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future. But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot logically exist. Smiling]

16. I have often heard that faith is all that is neccessary to believe in God and accept the Bible as true. If this is true aren't all supernatural beliefs true since they also require "faith"? - IG ON FAITH
1.) A prerequisite to believe in a Faith is faith.
2.) Having faith is all that is required to accept a Faith (belief) as true.
3.) All Faiths are true.
[Note: Of course all Faiths aren`t true, but this is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from a person that states that, "Faith" is how one knows God.]

17. Why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve after the Fall and start from scratch? Actually, if God is all-knowing wouldn't he know that man would need to be killed eventually anyway, (the biblical flood)? Why create Adam and Eve at all? - and ON THE GARDEN OF EDEN
1.) God is omniscient (all-knowing).
2.) God knew that before he created man that they would eat of the tree of knowledge.
3.) God placed the tree of knowledge in the Garden anyway.
4.) God wanted sin to enter the world.
[Note: If God didn`t want sin to enter the world, why create Adam and Eve at all? He knew what would happen. Why place the forbidden trees in the Garden in the first place?]

18. If a spirit is non-physical but the human body is physical, how does a spirit stay in our bodies? - IG ON SPIRITS
1.) Spirits are not physical entities.
2.) Brains are physical entities.
3.) Past experiences are stored in our physical brains, we call that, Memory..
4.) Injury can damage portions of the physical brain that store memory and can alter or erase memories completely.
5.) If human spirits exist... after death, spirits can have no memory.
[Note: Some will say the spirit stores physical memories as well, but if true, the spirit would have to be physical at least to a degree. How could a non-physical spirit store, physical memories?]

19. Does God know his own future decisions? If God is all-knowing he actually shouldn't have any decisions to make at all. Nor can he choose anything over something else. For that would mean that he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. In fact, he can't even think if this is the case. Since he can't DO anything, he might as well not exist. - IG ON GOD'S IMMUTABILITY - Unchangingness
1. If God exists, then he is immutable.
2. If God exists, then he is the creator of the universe.
3. An immutable being cannot at one time have an intention and then at a later time not have that intention.
4. For any being to create anything, prior to the creation he must have had the intention to create it, but at a later time, after the creation, no longer have the intention to create it.
5. Thus, it is impossible for an immutable being to have created anything (from 3 and 4).
6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist (from 1, 2, and 5) - Theodore M. Drange

20. If God is all-knowing, how could he be disappointed in His creation? -- [Note: Indeed, wouldn't God know that before the creation of our Universe what creatures would disappoint him? That being the case why create those creatures at all? Also, in knowing absolutely the behavior of humans before creation, God cannot be disappointed either... for this world is exactly as he has planned it to be. If it's not, why create us at all?]

21. God struck down the Tower of Babel angry at the intent of the people that built them, if this is the case, many of the great pyramids ( which are bigger than any ziggurat) around the world should be rubble also, yet many still stand today. Were not the Egyptians and many other ancient pyramid builders reaching toward God /The Heavens? - IG [Note: In actuality, many of the Pharaoh's believed that, via their pyramids, they would become God's themselves.]

22. In the watchmaker analogy, a watch is used to show us intelligent design and compares that to the Universe as evidence of design. We know watches are designed because we have past experience with watches, as well as with other man made objects. My question is: What Universe is the Intelligent Design proponent using to compare this Universe with to draw such an analogy? What God did he see create a Universe? - IG

23. Why did God flood the earth to remove evil? It didn't work! Evil came right back, God should have known that would happen! So why did He bother? - PhineasBg [Note: A good example of how quickly sin returned, was Noah getting drunk just after they discovered land.]

24. If the garden of Eden was a perfect paradise as xians claim, then why did Eve even want to eat the fruit? Wouldn't a perfect place provide everything a person would want or desire and thus she would want nothing? - keyser soze [Note: Why were the trees there in the first place? Of course they love to throw the serpent into the equation. But ummm..who let the serpent into the Garden?... and why would God create such a creature knowing he would cause man's fall? Hmm.. God must have wanted the fall to happen.]

25. Why would an all-powerful god become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself so that his creation might escape the wrath of himself. Couldn't god, in his infinite wisdom, come up with something a little more efficient? - ON THE BODY OF CHRIST
1.) God?s flesh was known as Jesus.
2.) Flesh cannot enter into Heaven (according to Paul)
3.) God is no longer Jesus.
4.) Jesus doesn?t exist.

(Note: Many at this point will state that the spirit lives on so therefore Jesus lives. This really depends on what you believe about Jesus. Is Jesus the son of God or God in flesh? If Jesus is merely the son there is no problem.However, if Jesus ?is? God himself, we do. You see, Jesus is called Jesus because of the attribute of Flesh. If Jesus = God (who is spirit) then the entity known as Jesus ceases to exist. The flesh/body of Jesus, no longer exists and the spirit of God is still the unchanging spirit of God. No Jesus at that point. The Flesh, called Jesus, is dead.)

26. After 9/11 a lot of people have been tossing around " god bless america". Why do they keep saying this? From the looks of it god hasn't blessed anything. If god had blessed america, the 9/11 event would've never happened. Theists seem to give the answer of "everything is part of gods big plan". If everything is part of gods big plan, why are we after Bin Laden? Wasn't he and other terrorists just carrying out gods desired plan? So it seems that Bin Laden/ terrorism isnt our enemy, but god . - [Note: Unfortunately many religious nuts believe they are fulfilling their God's plan by going to war.]

27. Christians say that God is NOT the author of confusion. Can you say, Tower of Babel? - The Screaming Monkeys

28. If Noah's flood supposedly covered the earth for a year, regardless of whether or not all the animals could fit on the ark, what the heck happened to all the plants? Can you imagine a cactus surviving under 4 miles of water for a year? I can't either! - Kyle Giblet [Note: With God all things are possible. Oh wait, except in Judges 1:19.]

29. The highest rainfall ever recorded in a 24 hour period was 47inches in the Reunion Islands in 1947 (during a severe tropical storm). To cover the whole earth to a depth of 5.6 miles, and cover the mountain tops (i.e. Mount Everest), it would need to rain at a rate of 372 (three hundred and seventy two) inches per hour, over the entire surface of the earth. Can rain fall at such an astronomical rate? Where did all the water come from?? Where did it all go to??? And would not the dynamics of the earth be so out of balance (tides etc.) that the earth would become so unstable that it would wobble off into outer space???? -

30. What do Muslim women get in Paradise? - IG [Note: Some Muslims I have interviewed about this say that Muslim women will get the same thing men get or equal value. Smiling Oh really? So Muslim women will get 72 virgin men? lol. If Muslim men get 72 virgins, where are all these virgin women coming from? What of their freewill? Is Allah creating these women to be slaves to the men in Paradise?]

31. In the "Last Days" Jesus is supposed to appear in the clouds. How are the Christians on the opposite end of the world going to see him? Are there going to be millions of Jesus'? What about people that work underground? What about people in deep space? -

32. The Bible says that God is a jealous God . How is this an example of a moral absolute of which man is supposed to follow? - IG ON GOD`S JEALOUSY
1.) "God is love." 1 John 4:8.
2.) "Love is not jealous." 1 Cor 13:4
3.) "I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God." Exodus 20:5.
4.) The Christian god cannot logically exist.
(NOte: Basically love is NOT jealous, yet god is jealous, then God can`t be love. But if god IS love he cannot be jealous. Be he is.)

33. A true Muslim man is not supposed to do anything that the prophet Muhammad didn't do. If one remembers there was a big debate over whether or not Muslims should eat Mangos. If this is true, why in the Hell were these Islamic Fundamentalists flying airplanes? - IG

34. If the earth was covered by a complete global flood, every living creature killed except those surviving on the ark, why are there many completely unique animal species in Australia that are found no where else indigenously on the earth? -

35. If god is omniscient and " god is love," why would he allow a child to be conceived, knowing that that child would one day reject him and spend eternity burning in a lake of fire?- TiredTurkeyProd

36. Revelations is supposed to take place on Earth. What if we colonize the moon or Mars or inhabit a self-sustaining space station? Do we escape "judgement"? -- Ray Sommers [Note: No we don't Ray... and of course we all know that if there is any intelligent life out there besides us, they are all going to Hell too. Eye-wink]

37. Isaiah 40:28 says, "...the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is he weary?" If this is true, why did God rest on the seventh day?- IG

38. Everytime I go to a funeral the preacher and guests always say that " God " has called that person to Heaven or they say, " God said it was time to come home", or some such variation. If God is calling these people "home", why are we putting the murderers of these victims in prison? How can we punish a man or woman for doing God's will? - IG

39. Does God have a gender? In most churches, God is predominately referred to as a "he"? - IG [Note: The Bible says God is male, but what does this mean? Does God have a penis? Does he have hormones that dictate his gender? Smiling]

40. Why can't we wait until we get to Heaven to worship God ? Why would it be too late? - IG

41. What is the purpose of prayer? What can a finite being on Earth possibly tell an omnipotent, omniscient deity that he doesn't know already? - IG ON PRAYER
1.) Humans can?t change God?s mind for he has a divine plan and is unchangeable.
2.) Prayer can't change God's mind.
3.) Prayer doesn't change anything.
(Prayer may make you feel better emotionally, but it doesn`t change God`s mind.)

42. Some say Jesus was the all-knowing God. Jesus would have known then that when he died he'd be in heaven in less than 3 days to rule. If Jesus is alive and ruling today, what did he sacrifice? -- Cyndy Hammond

43. God knows that men are sinners, untrustworthy and evil, why does God leave it up to fallible man (clergy..etc) to teach others about his word? Why would he put our eternal souls at risk if he loves us so much? - The Infidel Guy and Danno778

44. Did Adam have nipples? If so, how did he acquire them? In fact, why would God give "later man" nipples at all? They serve no purpose other than lactation. Some say pleasure. Where is that in Genesis exactly? All mammals have nipples as well, are theirs pleasureful for them too? Many men don't find their nipples pleasurable at all. - IG

45. How did Adam and Eve know it was wrong to disobey God if they hadn't eaten of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) yet? You can't blame them if they didn't know. - IG

46. If God has such a tremendous problem with uncircumcised penises, why did he make man with foreskin in the first place? - IG [Note: Some say, "So God can recognize his chosen people." Recognize? Is God so stupid that he has to physically look at men's penises? If not God, do other men need to? lol.]

47. Did Noah have fish onboard? Salt or Fresh? Since fresh water fish would die in salt, and salt water fish would die in fresh, only one type of fish would survive. Yet....?" - Frank Monaco

48. Why does the omnipotent, omnipresent God need help from man or angels to spread his word or do acts? - IG [Note: Some say God doesn't need help. But apparently he does.] - IG

49. How did Jesus ascend to Heaven in the Flesh when Paul says that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven? (1 Cor.15:50) - IG [Note: Some say, well Paul said that and not Jesus. Yet they quote Paul when it suits there purposes.]

50. If God wants us to live right and choose "the good," why did he create evil? (Isaiah 45:6,7) Not to mention he already knows which people are not going to choose "the good" so why create those people in the first place? It seems that many people are born to go to Hell. - IG ON HELL
1.) God is all-knowing.
2.) Before I was born God knew I wouldn?t believe in him.
3.) I was born to go to Hell.
(Sure you may say I have a choice, but I think I`ve proven already that I really don`t. I`m simply fulfilling the will of God by being an atheist aren`t I? If I`m not, I shouldn`t exist: For God would have known that before I was created that I wouldn`t believe in him.)

51. I hear Christians all the time speaking of a spiritual war between Heaven and Hell, if this is true does God have limitations of power? Man only conducts wars because of our limitations of power and foresight. God has both all-power and all-knowledge, no reason for war of any kind. - IG

52. The Bible is full of phrases beginning with, "and the lord saw". Didn't he know before hand? - IG

53. How can a psychologist condone belief in something not proven to exist, when people are put into mental institutions on a daily basis for the same thing? i.e. aliens, fairies, imaginary people (Multiple Personality Disorders..)? - Dan Denton [Note: I'm sure that some of the pious believe that they are improperly placed there as well Dan. Smiling]

54. If Christians say they know God exists and that he will work miracles, what do they need faith for? Faith is not knowing. - IG

55. Brain, or shall I say, body transplants, will eventually be possible, where would the soul be then? Where is the soul? - IG

56. If God really wants us to know him, why doesn't he place the knowledge of him in our minds at birth? The same way many theists believe that God implants our sense of right and wrong in us a right birth. - IG

57. If God was Jesus' father (not Joseph), then why is Jesus' family tree traced through Joseph? -- Cyndy Hammond

58. What image of God was man made from? Couldn't have been a moral one or physical one. - IG [Note: One would suspect that an image of God would be perfect and cannot sin. Oops.]

59. Why can't God appear before everyone at the same time? Everyone in the world would then "know" he exists and not have solely "believe". And please, don't say he already tried that. Surely a God knows exactly what to do to convince a measly human of his existence. - IG

60. According to the New Testament Matthew 5:17 says "Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete. I tell you this: so long as heaven and earth endure, not a letter, not a stroke, will disappear from the Law until all that must happen has Happened." So since Jesus has not returned the "Law" is still in effect, so why aren't we still burning witches, stoning adulterers and disobedient children, killing homosexuals, ostracizing people that work on the Sabbath (nurses, doctors etc.), flinging blood onto the horns of the alter, pulling off the heads of small birds, and don't forget human sacrifice to God (Leviticus 27 P.28 )? -- Sheila L. Chambers

61. If there is freewill in Heaven yet everyone has chosen good and is happy, isn't that proof that God could have made us with freewill, choosing good ( God ) and still being happy on Earth? - Dennis Hendrix [Note: In other words, evil didn't have to exist after all. Hey wait, even in Heaven apparently, evil can exist. At least for a short while. Satan became evil and was in heaven. Apparently he even had enough time to form an Army against God. Wow. Maybe Heaven won't be as peaceful as many believe.]

62. Why does God have a plan? Man is limited in power so we make plans because we are not all-knowing nor all-powerful. If God has a plan, isn't he reduced to a mere finite being? - IG

63. How could the all-merciful/loving God watch billions of his children burn over and over again for eternity? - IG [Note: Of course this is geared to those that believe in a fiery hell. I am well aware that not all Christians believe in a fiery Hell.]

64. Before reading and writing were invented (5000BC), on what basis did God use to judge the people who died before the Hebrew and Greek text (BIBLE) were written? -- [Note: They are all roasting in Hell. Smiling]

65. Many Christians tell me that I will "burn in hell". If I have a soul, how can a soul burn? Aren't souls non-physical entities? - IG [Note: Some Christians groups believe that you will be given new bodies after judgement. However, if true, what's the significance of a spirit in the first place?]

66. How can one hold to the barbaric belief that something has to DIE in order to appease a god for a bad deed? -- Nickolaus Wing [Note: Because an old book says so Nick.]

67. Why does SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) occur? Why would God allow a baby to live for such a short period of time? Why not just let them not be born in the first place? -- Terry Clark [Note: This actually happened to a friend of mine. Not even God himself could console her.]

68. If Jesus was nailed and died on Friday evening, and walked out of the tomb on Sunday morning, where's the 3rd NIGHT he predicted? Per Matthew 12:40: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -

69. Many Christians claim that hell is merely existence outside of God ?s presence (C.S. Lewis among others). If this is the case, then Jesus could not have descended into hell (being God Himself). As a result, are you sure your sins are forgiven? - Byron Bultsma

70. Ten to twenty percent of all women who discover they are pregnant suffer a miscarriage. Also, it is estimated that anywhere from 14 to 50 percent of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Seeing this is all part of God 's plan, does this make God the world's number one abortion provider? - Jim

71. What if, when you get to Heaven, you saw God causing pain and suffering out of anger or for the purpose of entertaining himself. What if he required people in heaven to praise and worship him non-stop even to the point of causing his worshipers discomfort, pain and boredom. What if, when he was bored, angry, or jealous, he would create natural disasters to make himself feel better. Would you still follow him? - Fernando [Note: Of course they would Fernando, many people followed Hitler out of fear as well.]

72. In Leviticus, the bible condemns homosexuality as an "abomination", giving some Christians a reason to hate, harass, torture and kill gays and even picket their funderals with " God hates fags" signs. In the same book of the bible the eating of shellfish is equally an "abomination". Are these Christians planning to go after the patrons of Red Lobster next? - [Note: hee-hee, that's all I can say. Jewish Law states that eating Fish without scales is an abomination and thus the Shark is one among the list. However, sharks do have scales, Placoid scales, one of the many reasons why a shark is called a Fish .]

73. Christians will tell you that if a baby dies it goes to heaven. Why then are they so against abortion? All the child is being deprived of is the opportunity to go to hell. Either that or god expects unborn fetuses to accept Jesus. -

74. If one could prove to you incontrovertibly that Jesus and God were all human fabrications would still believe? And why? - LOGICnREASON [Note: If you say yes. Then you are not concerned with the truth, you simply WANT to believe; and if you WANT to believe, indeed, there is nothing anyone can tell you..]

75. It is often said that God allows evil because one could not meaningfully appreciate good without experiencing its opposite. Why is it necessary to experience the opposite of something in order to appreciate it? Must I experience death in order to meaningfully appreciate life? -excidius

76. Bible literalists want you to believe that God's Word in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. If this is the case, why was Jesus fond of explaining things in parable and metaphor? Was Jesus literally discussing the biology of mustard seeds, or was the mustard seed parable meant to be interpreted figuratively as faith? -excidius

77. Liberal Christians say some parts of the Bible are literally true, but much else is to be interpreted figuratively as allegory. How do you know which is which? What distinguishing criteria are used? How can you be certain "God" is a literal and not a figurative concept? -excidius

78. Consciousness is the result of a physical brain, how could God being metaphysical be said to be conscious or sentient without having a brain? - Mindless

79. Considering how Leviticus is considered old law, and that Christians do not obey it anymore, why do they always use it to defend homosexuality being an "abomination"? -Bohorquez

80. If God is omnipotent and he has a plan ... then why did he not create the universe as it will be one second after the plan has succeeded? Who or what prevented him from doing that? - Timothy Campbell (http://www.tc123.com)

81. The large majority of people who have ever existed could not have learned of the Bible or Jesus Christ. And many people afterwards have found other religions or no religion at all to be more convincing, sometimes while being very virtuous. Do all these people really deserve eternal torment because of that? -- lpetrich

82. The above arguments also apply among different sects of Christianity, many of which state that most others are not True Christianity. -- lpetrich

83. Is it reasonable for the Creator and Ruler of such a vast Universe to be preoccupied with the sexuality of a species living on a tiny little planet? -- lpetrich

84. If the Christian god was all loving and all knowing why did he let religious figures such as Mohammed or Gautama Budda be born, knowing that they would mislead people from the 'true' faith and trick the majority of the world's population into burning forever in hell (in fact, if Islam didn't start, most of the middle east would probably be Christian). It would simple to use the Holy Spirit to guide them to Jesus and spread the 'true' faith. If the Holy Spirit exits, it certainly isn't doing it's job!

85. If one is obliged to follow all the teachings of the bible then why is engaging in homosexuality or adultery any worse than "suffering a witch to live", "muzzling the ox that treadeth the corn", "reaping the corners of thy field", "marring the corners of they beard", "plowing with an oxen and an ass", "hating thy brother in thy heart" or "eating frogs, shellfish and eels" ?

86. Exactly how did the alleged worldwide flood kill off all the world's sea creatures? How does one go about drowning a fish? -- Steever

87. Why did this alleged god create humans as an animal form of life that gets sick and dies and experiences pain and has a limited mind when 'it' could have created humans as a form of pure energy or of some indestructible material or whatever, and was totally ?sinless? and had ?pure? thought? If a god was omnipotent 'it' could have easily have done this. --AI

88. If a god is omnipotent how did 'it' fail to foresee that Satan would turn against 'it'? --AI

89. What is a god supposedly made of? --AI

This list was compiled by the Infidel Guy with submissions from many members of the atheist community.

PICK THE QUESTION YOU WANT TO ANSWER, AND POST IT HERE...

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


LtPaint
Theist
Posts: 6
Joined: 2007-02-05
User is offlineOffline
Maragon wrote:LtPaint

Maragon wrote:
LtPaint wrote:
An_Atheist wrote:
I would love for any theist to give me just one tiny bit of 'evidence' to show me why they believe in a god!!
Many whom i have spoken with so far have said that they can prove it to me...but unfortunately...have never done so!! I need more than words to prove it to me...maybe that is why i have not been given any evidence!!

Religion is based around faith. Faith can not be proven. Your friends, I assure you, will not be able to provide evidence of the existance of God because there beliefs are based around their faith and not around evidence of God's existance.

St. Thomas Aquinas said “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”

So why do theist believe in a god?

Theist have faith

Peace

But WHY do you have faith?

What causes a belief in something that cannot logically be proven? 

Doesn't everyone have some form of faith.  Perhaps not faith in a deity, but faith in say your friend delivering a message to another friend or a scientist having faith that expermintation will prove his hypothesis. 

Since faith is not based on logic, then why should we feel threatened if that belief is not logically?

"Very different is the monastic way. Obedience, fasting, and prayer are laughed at, yet they alone constitute the way to real and true freedom: I cut away my superfluous and unnecessary needs, through obedience I humble and chasten my vain and proud will, and thereby, with God’s help, attain freedom of spirit, and with that, spiritual rejoicing!" ~~Zosima from The Brothers Karamazov


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10334
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is onlineOnline
LtPaint wrote: Maragon

LtPaint wrote:
Maragon wrote:
LtPaint wrote:
An_Atheist wrote:
I would love for any theist to give me just one tiny bit of 'evidence' to show me why they believe in a god!!
Many whom i have spoken with so far have said that they can prove it to me...but unfortunately...have never done so!! I need more than words to prove it to me...maybe that is why i have not been given any evidence!!

Religion is based around faith. Faith can not be proven. Your friends, I assure you, will not be able to provide evidence of the existance of God because there beliefs are based around their faith and not around evidence of God's existance.

St. Thomas Aquinas said “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”

So why do theist believe in a god?

Theist have faith

Peace

But WHY do you have faith?

What causes a belief in something that cannot logically be proven? 

Doesn't everyone have some form of faith.  Perhaps not faith in a deity, but faith in say your friend delivering a message to another friend or a scientist having faith that expermintation will prove his hypothesis. 

Since faith is not based on logic, then why should we feel threatened if that belief is not logically?

Those are different kinds of faith. Faith in a friend delivering a message is confidence and trust in that friend to do what you asked based on experiences with that friend. The scientists faith in his hypothesis will not be faith the moment the experiment fails or succeeds, and that moment is quantifiable. Neither of these definitions are applicable to a god that defies quantifiability, confidence, or trust.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


croath
Theist
Posts: 100
Joined: 2007-05-05
User is offlineOffline
What does this list have to

What does this list have to do with theism?  A great number of the points are specific questions to Christians, and therefore irrelevant in the greater debate of Atheism vs Theism.

 You should strip this list down to only those questions which are relevant to the theist that believes in an omniscient, omnipotent, good (benevolent) creator of the universe, but says little more.  That would be relevant for a forum like this.


aiia
Superfan
aiia's picture
Posts: 1923
Joined: 2006-09-12
User is offlineOffline
croath wrote: What does

croath wrote:

What does this list have to do with theism? A great number of the points are specific questions to Christians, and therefore irrelevant in the greater debate of Atheism vs Theism.

You should strip this list down to only those questions which are relevant to the theist that believes in an omniscient, omnipotent, good (benevolent) creator of the universe, but says little more. That would be relevant for a forum like this.

Do you have any nonxian questions about god?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


BenfromCanada
atheist
BenfromCanada's picture
Posts: 811
Joined: 2006-08-31
User is offlineOffline
AiiA wrote: croath

AiiA wrote:
croath wrote:

What does this list have to do with theism? A great number of the points are specific questions to Christians, and therefore irrelevant in the greater debate of Atheism vs Theism.

You should strip this list down to only those questions which are relevant to the theist that believes in an omniscient, omnipotent, good (benevolent) creator of the universe, but says little more. That would be relevant for a forum like this.

Do you have any nonxian questions about god?

Non-Abrahamic god questions would be better. I have a few questions about Hinduism and Buddhism, but I have to sleep so that I may actually be rested and not make a blunder in my sleep deprived state. 


croath
Theist
Posts: 100
Joined: 2007-05-05
User is offlineOffline
AiiA wrote: Do you have any

AiiA wrote:
Do you have any nonxian questions about god?

 I don't, but many atheists would and do.  This thread would be better titled "Christians answer these!"  Though even then some questions are directed at Muslims.  The core problem here is that atheists and theists differ on their view of whether God exists or not.  Theists of the various religions convincingly answering most of these questions would do nothing to change that.  All the atheist would then say is, "Well, it seems that your viewpoint can be consistent.  But that still doesn't prove God exists!"  And he'd perhaps be right to respond in this way too.

So, my point is, if you're going to title a thread like this, then at least make these questions relevant to the argument of whether or not God exists.

Btw, I think that you mean "arrranged" and not "arraigned" in your sig.


applelove
Theist
Posts: 7
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
Theists have something for sure

No matter all the so called proofs that there is no God, still atheists have no choice but to submit to a theist controlled world. This is because God rules through the theists. How clear is that?
Christians write beautiful songs about the God they love. They heal the sick using God's name of Jesus. They sit in the White House and senate, congress, etc. It is the theist who decides what goes for the world.
In a word, they rule the world.
Why do atheists think they're right when they have no control on what goes in the world? By that I mean no athiest can take over and say and convince anyone there is no God.
The world since the dawn of time understands there is a God. Atheists have had millenniums to prove otherwise, but as it stands theists still control the world that there is a God. Even the terrorists of Islam know there is a God. I hope the atheists don't try and convince them there is no God.
There is a God and theists prove it by their up front seat on the planet.


BenfromCanada
atheist
BenfromCanada's picture
Posts: 811
Joined: 2006-08-31
User is offlineOffline
applelove wrote: No matter

applelove wrote:
No matter all the so called proofs that there is no God, still atheists have no choice but to submit to a theist controlled world. This is because God rules through the theists. How clear is that? Christians write beautiful songs about the God they love. They heal the sick using God's name of Jesus. They sit in the White House and senate, congress, etc. It is the theist who decides what goes for the world. In a word, they rule the world. Why do atheists think they're right when they have no control on what goes in the world? By that I mean no athiest can take over and say and convince anyone there is no God. The world since the dawn of time understands there is a God. Atheists have had millenniums to prove otherwise, but as it stands theists still control the world that there is a God. Even the terrorists of Islam know there is a God. I hope the atheists don't try and convince them there is no God. There is a God and theists prove it by their up front seat on the planet.
So theists ruling the world proves that there is a god? This is purely appeal to popularity. Nothing more, nothing less.


applelove
Theist
Posts: 7
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
Theists rule

Quote:
So theists ruling the world proves that there is a god? This is purely appeal to popularity. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're going to have to do better than that, even though you can't.
You may call it what you want, but the fact remains theists rule. It tells that theists obviously know something the atheist doesn't.
It most certainly proves we are smarter than athiests. We have "something" which gives us power to rule.
That something is There is a God.
Armed with that power, theists rule.
Theists even put on the money atheists are forced to use in the US..."In God we trust"
Theists do not let atheists decide anything for the world.
Nothing.
Atheists must submit to a theist controlled planet.
Appeal to popularity? Nope. It is called power.
God's power.
Try again.


JCE
Bronze Member
JCE's picture
Posts: 1219
Joined: 2007-03-20
User is offlineOffline
applelove wrote: You're

applelove wrote:
You're going to have to do better than that, even though you can't. You may call it what you want, but the fact remains theists rule. It tells that theists obviously know something the atheist doesn't. It most certainly proves we are smarter than athiests. We have "something" which gives us power to rule. That something is There is a God. Armed with that power, theists rule. Theists even put on the money atheists are forced to use in the US..."In God we trust" Theists do not let atheists decide anything for the world. Nothing. Atheists must submit to a theist controlled planet. Appeal to popularity? Nope. It is called power. God's power. Try again.

Are you proud of this?  Pride is a sin.


adamnite
Theist
Posts: 4
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
Your Knee Will Bow Before God One Day...

Say All You Want, Believe All You Want, You Amongst All Will Bow Before God One Day, & You Will Be Judged Like Everyone Else.

I Believe In God, His Son Jesus, The Holy Spirit...

Your Time Is Short In This Life.


JCE
Bronze Member
JCE's picture
Posts: 1219
Joined: 2007-03-20
User is offlineOffline
adamnite wrote: Say All You

adamnite wrote:
Say All You Want, Believe All You Want, You Amongst All Will Bow Before God One Day, & You Will Be Judged Like Everyone Else. I Believe In God, His Son Jesus, The Holy Spirit... Your Time Is Short In This Life.

So is yours..you should do something constructive with your time before it is too late. 


BenfromCanada
atheist
BenfromCanada's picture
Posts: 811
Joined: 2006-08-31
User is offlineOffline
applelove wrote: Quote: So

applelove wrote:
Quote:
So theists ruling the world proves that there is a god? This is purely appeal to popularity. Nothing more, nothing less.
You're going to have to do better than that, even though you can't. You may call it what you want, but the fact remains theists rule. It tells that theists obviously know something the atheist doesn't. It most certainly proves we are smarter than athiests. We have "something" which gives us power to rule. That something is There is a God. Armed with that power, theists rule. Theists even put on the money atheists are forced to use in the US..."In God we trust" Theists do not let atheists decide anything for the world. Nothing. Atheists must submit to a theist controlled planet. Appeal to popularity? Nope. It is called power. God's power. Try again.
From where comes the power? How do you "rule"? You rule because there are more of you.

Think of it this way:In ancient times, monotheists were highly outnumbered by polytheists. They had the power. If you were living then, you'd be "ruled" by polytheists. They had more power. Did those who believed in many gods know something monotheists didn't? Did Zeus or Jupiter or Marduk or Odin give them power?

Really, I don't need to do better, because your argument is totally flawed. What of Communist China? The Communist Party there basically outlaws your religion, while allowing traditional Chinese religions. Do they know something you don't? Maybe the spirit of Mao gives them power?

I guess I can call this an appeal to popularity AND an appeal to authority. (not in the traditional sense, but more "We are authority figures because theists rule the world, so we're right," thing) Normally, logical fallacies lose the argument right away. Here, you're using two.


Pile
atheist
Pile's picture
Posts: 214
Joined: 2006-04-26
User is offlineOffline
applelove wrote: No matter

applelove wrote:
No matter all the so called proofs that there is no God, still atheists have no choice but to submit to a theist controlled world. This is because God rules through the theists. How clear is that? Christians write beautiful songs about the God they love. They heal the sick using God's name of Jesus. They sit in the White House and senate, congress, etc. It is the theist who decides what goes for the world. In a word, they rule the world. Why do atheists think they're right when they have no control on what goes in the world? By that I mean no athiest can take over and say and convince anyone there is no God. The world since the dawn of time understands there is a God. Atheists have had millenniums to prove otherwise, but as it stands theists still control the world that there is a God. Even the terrorists of Islam know there is a God. I hope the atheists don't try and convince them there is no God. There is a God and theists prove it by their up front seat on the planet.

This is the basic Argument from Popularity, which dictates that just because a majority believe something, it must be true. There was a time when the majority of people believed the Earth was flat. That didn't make it true. For millennia people believed the moon and stars were people up in the sky, and weather was the direct result of their movement, actions or mood. Now we know better. Even you know better. People learn things by being open to new, better ideas and older, more archaic ways of explaining things become obsolete, or do you still use leeches to cure yourself of illness?

In addition to this, you are back-pedaling from christianity to theism in general. If you're a christian, this is sacreligious. You argue for the truth and superiority of theism citing world dominence, but christianity is not necessarily the dominant religion -- by no means do a majority of humans on this planet believe in jesus, so even if your argument held water (which it doesn't) you would in-effect be proving that jesus is most certainly not god.

You theists, ultimately are better off keeping your mouth completely shut. Any time you engage in any debate, you expose the hypocrisy and irrationality of your beliefs, especially when you flail helplessly in search of any sign of logic which supports your cause.

 


applelove
Theist
Posts: 7
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
It has nothing to do with

Pride? It has nothing to do with pride, but obvious truth and undeniable facts. Atheists have no world, no planet, no governement to back up their statement There is no God, whereas theists have a world, an entire planet in the cosmos to back up their statement There is a God, and by his power we rule the world.


applelove
Theist
Posts: 7
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
ONE man Abraham

Since the dawn of time, humans have known there is a God. Archaeology proves this as for example in the ancient city of Ugarit ruins. The people then believed there were two Gods  because of the creative and chaotic forces at work in the world. Recorded history tells us that the law given to Moses at Sinai about 2500 BC is original in its contents. Hammaraubi's code was not for us, as proved by Abraham having Ishmael by Hagar. It is a long story, but my point is that atheists since the dawn of time have had time and space to create an atheist world, but cannot do it. Theists and atheists have existed together for millenniums. And even if it had been one atheist or a million, the atheist was not able to build anything to support the words "There is no God." Reality automatically produces evidence. Atheism to this day says there is no God, but that is as far as it went then and now. Atheism has failed in its attempts. Millenniums ago ONE man Abraham the patriarch said there is a God, He is ONE and with that one man and one nation Israel, montheism has conquered the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid is what Jesus said.


applelove
Theist
Posts: 7
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
Find his way??

Look what theist found....12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

You need to understand that it is what God says that is truth. His WORD. nd the Bible is God's written word. Satan is judged already. And he has no word. What he says is a lie. Jesus said he beheld him fall from heaven as lightning. It is not about Satan "finding his way" which is impossible since Jesus is the Way. And Jesus said Satan has nothing in him. Satan doesn't "have a presence" anywhere. He is a fallen angel who has been judged. It is not possible for him to find anything. He is the power that destroys, not seeks for a way. The Scriptures are closed and nothing can be added not then, not now, not ever. He cannot go to church and change anything. He is the tempter now as he was to Eve, suggesting, offering, but never can he get into the church or into God's word.

You seem to see the devil as a thinking entity. He is not. He is a fallen angel, an angel who wanted to be God. He has no power to think, reason, or cause to come into being. He is the tempter, the destroyer, the waster, the liar, theif, murderer who is not capable of doing any of the things you suppose he might have done.

God is a God of laws. Satan is a created and anointed fallen cherub whose only desire for you is total destruction and he will do it any way he can as in the lie that God to whom you will give an account to does not exist. The devil gets no credit. God gave the world his word and he gave His Son. Jesus said the gates of hell WILL NOT  prevail against his church.Your argument that maybe Satan found his way and twisted can not be reconciled to the Bible and an ordered universe created by God who created Lucifer.


applelove
Theist
Posts: 7
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
. Why haven't we seen God

. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

 

Actually there have been creative miracles and people raised from the dead. It sounds like you want it done right now in front of you. But God doesn't respond to demands of atheists,but to faith of believers. Personally I think atheists are very angry at God. I also think atheists are for the most part deep thinkers who want to know who, what, where,when,why and how. God told me in the Bible that atheists do not believe "there is no God", they say there is no God in their hearts. I think if atheists understood that God is a God of immutable eternal laws, they would easier be able to see and understand who God is.


BenfromCanada
atheist
BenfromCanada's picture
Posts: 811
Joined: 2006-08-31
User is offlineOffline
applelove wrote: Pride? It

applelove wrote:

Pride? It has nothing to do with pride, but obvious truth and undeniable facts. Atheists have no world, no planet, no governement to back up their statement There is no God, whereas theists have a world, an entire planet in the cosmos to back up their statement There is a God, and by his power we rule the world.

Why do you need a world, planet or government to back up your statement if it's true? Why don't you answer the question about  ancient polytheists, or the point that this is SACRILEGE according to your church? 

applelove wrote:

Since the dawn of time, humans have known there is a God. Archaeology proves this as for example in the ancient city of Ugarit ruins. The people then believed there were two Gods because of the creative and chaotic forces at work in the world. Recorded history tells us that the law given to Moses at Sinai about 2500 BC is original in its contents. Hammaraubi's code was not for us, as proved by Abraham having Ishmael by Hagar. It is a long story, but my point is that atheists since the dawn of time have had time and space to create an atheist world, but cannot do it. Theists and atheists have existed together for millenniums. And even if it had been one atheist or a million, the atheist was not able to build anything to support the words "There is no God." Reality automatically produces evidence. Atheism to this day says there is no God, but that is as far as it went then and now. Atheism has failed in its attempts. Millenniums ago ONE man Abraham the patriarch said there is a God, He is ONE and with that one man and one nation Israel, montheism has conquered the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid is what Jesus said.

You know the Ugaritic texts are a good proof that christianity  and judaism ripped off other religions in that area, right? Again, why does an entire country agreeing make what they agree on right?

applelove wrote:

. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

 

Actually there have been creative miracles and people raised from the dead. It sounds like you want it done right now in front of you. But God doesn't respond to demands of atheists,but to faith of believers. Personally I think atheists are very angry at God. I also think atheists are for the most part deep thinkers who want to know who, what, where,when,why and how. God told me in the Bible that atheists do not believe "there is no God", they say there is no God in their hearts. I think if atheists understood that God is a God of immutable eternal laws, they would easier be able to see and understand who God is.

1: Please give proof that these miracles have happened in the modern world.

2: I'm not angry at god, I don't think he exists. 

applelove wrote:

Look what theist found....12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

You need to understand that it is what God says that is truth. His WORD. nd the Bible is God's written word. Satan is judged already. And he has no word. What he says is a lie. Jesus said he beheld him fall from heaven as lightning. It is not about Satan "finding his way" which is impossible since Jesus is the Way. And Jesus said Satan has nothing in him. Satan doesn't "have a presence" anywhere. He is a fallen angel who has been judged. It is not possible for him to find anything. He is the power that destroys, not seeks for a way. The Scriptures are closed and nothing can be added not then, not now, not ever. He cannot go to church and change anything. He is the tempter now as he was to Eve, suggesting, offering, but never can he get into the church or into God's word.

You seem to see the devil as a thinking entity. He is not. He is a fallen angel, an angel who wanted to be God. He has no power to think, reason, or cause to come into being. He is the tempter, the destroyer, the waster, the liar, theif, murderer who is not capable of doing any of the things you suppose he might have done.

God is a God of laws. Satan is a created and anointed fallen cherub whose only desire for you is total destruction and he will do it any way he can as in the lie that God to whom you will give an account to does not exist. The devil gets no credit. God gave the world his word and he gave His Son. Jesus said the gates of hell WILL NOT prevail against his church.Your argument that maybe Satan found his way and twisted can not be reconciled to the Bible and an ordered universe created by God who created Lucifer.

You make this too easy.

II Corinthians 11:14-15

14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

How do you know that it isn't Satan masquerading as an angel of light telling you your god wrote the bible? Or even him masquerading as god himself?

Next, the devil is depicted as a thinking entity in the bible, else he'd never trick anyone. One cannot trick someone without thinking. No mention of him as a fallen angel is in the bible. In fact, the one verse in Isaiah about the morning star falling, which is the only proof that he was a fallen angel, refers to Israel falling from grace, NOT Satan.


Think about it
Posts: 1
Joined: 2007-05-12
User is offlineOffline
I have to ask some

I have to ask some questions of you all since you have no problem tearing into believers.

 1. If there is no God and no Satan, there where does morality come from? Why or how do we know what's right and what's wrong? If God didn't tell us or create us to know that there is evil in the world, then what if the only way we learned it was from our parents, well what if you have child molesters for parents, well now they tell you it's okay to be a child molester, so since they say so and they are your moral standard, then I guess it's now okay, and your conscience doesn't have to answer to anyone else. Or since you don't believe in God, then why believe in maintaing moral standards, what makes child molestation so bad? I mean when you die you cease to exists so who cares what you did while you were alive, so child molesters of the world should be jumpping for joy.

2. If you believe in evolution then you tell me how it works. Science says it takes about 45 million years for a species to evolve,  so when it reaches the day where it decieds, "I don't want to be pond scum any more, I think I will start to evolve into a bird." Which is a strech b/c now we are saying that pond scum can not only think, but has aspirations to become something. But while it's laying around being pond scum and thinking bird like thoughts, what is it eating to stay alive? Everything on earths eats, so what did this scum eat for 45 million years, and when it was halfway to bird, did it eat the same thing? and what about if it didn't make it the full 45 million years? wouldn't there be skeletons of what the creatres used to be instead of what they trying to become?  As far as i know, science hasn't found any skeletons of things we never knew existed.

4. tell me what the smallest particle is. If you think it's the atom you're wrong. if you a little smart and it's the proton, neutron and electron, you are wrong again. Research it and get back to me! I think you will be amazed at what SCIENCE has now found to be the smallest particle! 

 


Just Me...
Theist
Posts: 10
Joined: 2007-05-12
User is offlineOffline
Hi...

Hi...

New here, only recently came aware of you. First of all, let me get this out of the way - I am a theist (Christian I suppose, but non-practicing; generally speaking, I don't really espouse organized Christianity and think religion, or lack thereof, is an article most people would be better served to keep amongst themselves). That being said, I'd like to completely go against the grain of that previous sentence by sharing some of my takes on the first 20 points here. I may (or may not) attempt to take on a few more of the questions, but for now, I'll keep my first post extremely long and annoying. Hopefully nobody will mind TOO much...hopefully it proves somewhat intelligently written, or, if nothing else, a pleasant enough distraction from your daily activities, even if for only a few moments.

Take care!

********

Questions about God... theists answer these!

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah?

- For the same reason people run stop signs, drive drunk, speed, weave in and out of lanes or otherwise drive like an idiot. Just because something's there and there's apparently a reason for it being there doesn't necessarily mean everybody's going to get behind the idea of it. No big mystery.

2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

- A. Regarding Cherubims, I have no answer. - B. Due to it's implicit description. It's not something that can be physically located. Most Christian scholars agree that it's description is metaphoric but essentially translates into a spiritual/metaphysical barrier that humans cannot pass.

3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River?

- There's some scientific standard that continents have a tendancy to separate over time; it's unlikely, but possible, that it all sort of blended together. The world at the dawn of time (so to speak) didn't look like it does today, and judging it as such is somewhat of a reach.

4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

- Human connections are severed in the afterlife; for the old things are passed away. EVERYBODY in Heaven becomes family, and although immediate (human/Earthly) family connections still will exist, the pre-eminent connection is with God first and everyone else secondly. We are all children of God. By it's very nature, Heaven cannot allow sadness or regret or loss. Does that mean spiritual control? I can't answer that, but most written religious works are pretty specific about a dismissal of Earthly cares - I assume that extends to immediate family and friends here. They probably become more like ex-employees. You can still, of course, be on friendly basis with them all, but your real family (God) is elsewhere.

5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]

- Being omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent doesn't necessarily preclude having emotions. While it's true that emotional states are reactionary for humans, you can't judge emotional states on an infinite status unless you examine that from the perspective of omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. You can only examine them from a human perspective. Same rules obviously can't apply. You can't put limits on an infinite.

6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

- A. Of course He wanted sin to enter the world. Why wouldn't he? Think about the planet. Now think about the planet filled with NOTHING but exact copies of you, forever. Wouldn't it get slightly boring? Uninteresting? What would be the point in creating humans if we were just created as mindless worshipping automatons? He already had that in the angels and found it dissatisfactory. Insertion of a choice to sin and turn away from Him would be the only reason to even bother creating a planet and human beings in the first place. A being with the qualities God has wouldn't waste His time with such trivialties.

- B. The concept of a "Fire and Brimstone/Place of Torture" Hell has been discounted many times by religious scholars. Fire and Brimstone concepts of Hell basically applied as scare tactic fare - most accounts of Hell now agree that, based on actual definitions of the word, it's a place of removal from the sight of God, a place of isolation. Not a place of being poked in the rear by little red devils with pitchforks.

7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL 1.) God's love is superlative. 2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self. 3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture. 4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

- No, it would not be more merciful. In fact, it would be worse because it would defeat the notion that God is all merciful. Snapping you out of existance would not give you the opportunity to change your mind, and doing such would make God tyrannical in nature. Not allowing sinners to be born is honestly a parallel to the debate of letting sin enter the world - it's basically a parallel question. Again, why would God create a free-thinking, intelligent, self aware human being and then say "BUT you MUST worship me - of that you have NO choice in the matter at all, hahahah!"? Because creating such a thing like a human being at that point would be, essentially, pointless in practice due to the fact that angels operate in much the same manner. The fact that human beings exist, when taken in conjuction with this argument, lends credibility to the argument that God was looking for something a little more interesting.

8. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca. Each prayer includes a variety of ritualism and posturing. If a muslim astronaut were to land on Mars. Prayer to Mecca would be ritualistically impossible due to the rotation of Earth and Mars. Are Muslims stuck here in Earth? IG [Note: Since this was first posted, a Muslim astronaut was faced with this very dilemma. The authoritative clergy informed him to pray as he normally would. I see this no where in the Koran. You see? Religions must change, or die out. It's interesting to note that, in the Koran, the moon is believed to be in the lowest Heaven, the level for those that barely made it to Heaven. Surah 71:15-16. One problem, no man can supposedly get to Heaven until they die. Yet, we've been to the moon. Our satellites beyond that.]

- I'm not a subscriber to the Muslim faith, so I cannot comment on this. I would assume that a Muslim on Mars would be able to pray in whatever direction so long as the faith was well placed, however. Intent can (and should) take up the slack of physical impossibility. I would assume any God would be able to say "Well, that's close enough" for special occasions.

9. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

- Once again, it's the issue of free will that's being overlooked here. Let's say God came down, made his presence known, did a press conference, performed like a circus animal and impressed everybody enough to say "OK, I believe, there IS a God! Hallelujah!". What, then, would be the point? All knees would bow, and the pursuit of everyone's daily life would amount to nothing more than...forced servitude. As I've postured several times already, God already had automatic, 24/7 worship with the angels. He gave mankind a choice NOT to believe in Him, and loved his creation above and beyond all other things BECAUSE He gave them that choice. On top of that explanation, restoring the dead to life en masse (for example) would create food shortages, employment problems, natural resource crises, pollution issues, and a plethora of other problems unlike the world has EVER seen. I'm sure it would create a faith in God worldwide, but mankind would be ill-equipped to handle the overpopulation. Of course, one could argue that God could immediately fix all those problems, sure; but really, where would it end? What if the people whom He restored life to suddenly demanded that He also bring back their mothers, brothers, friends and co-workers? And what if THOSE people demanded that He bring their dearly departed back? Death exists for a reason and it's a very good one when you stop to consider it.

10. Why does God entrust the spreading of 'His' word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself? - IG [Note: Surely God would have known that not everyone would be convinced by the reality[sic] of his Bible. If God loves us so much, we are all going to Heaven. If God knew that I would be an atheist, and he doesn't like atheists, he shouldn't have allowed me to come into existence. But he did. Therefore, I must be serving the will of God, for I exist. Smiling]

- You ARE serving the will of God. Free will, remember? NOW you're getting it. Smiling

11. In II Kings 2-23/24 we read about God sending 2 she-bears to attack children for calling the prophet Elisa bald, which he was, the bears killed 42 of the children. Was this a good thing to do? -- Brandon and IG [Note: I have heard some argue that the boys were a gang. So?! I didn't read anywhere in that passage where they laid a finger on the guy . Also, what kind of bears are these that can kill 42 kids? Super Bears? Surely the kids had to be running away.]

- This is most likely parable; the "children" in question could very well be cities or tribes, potentially political leaders who denounced Elisa (calling him bald could well equate to denouncing Elisa - "killing" them could also mean other things than actual physical death, as it does in any deck of tarot cards). The bible often times speaks in parable and Jesus Himself (and many other scholars of the time, not all of whom espoused religion above all else) used parable extensively as a means of teaching. The common words and depictions of language today are FAR removed from what was common in the days that the scrolls which became the bible were written. I would need further actual study to authenticate this, but I have seen numerous examples, which allow me to make a "leap of faith" that this is most likely the case.

12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

- Not a question I can answer, because I don't personally know the extent or influence of Satan in the church. I would speculate that, if Satan had influence in the writing of the bible, he would have at least taken the time to portray himself in a slightly better light, however...?

13. Why did God allow Lot and his daughters to escape from Sodom and Gomorra when he destroyed it only to later have Lot and his daughters engage in incestuous fornication. (Genesis 19:30-36) - Disillusioned [Note: To have intercourse with daddy dearest of course.]

- This is a GREAT question! Sadly enough, I have absolutely NO answer and am not ashamed to admit it. Smiling

14. Genesis 1:28-29 shows that man and all the animals were first created herbivorous. Most young-earth Christians (ones that believes the earth is less than 10,000 years old) say that the fall of man resulted in carnivorous animals (hence death of animals). So, why did God punish the animal kingdom, making animals kill and devour each other because of man's mistake? Or, if you're an old-earth Christian (one that accepts that animals existed on earth for billions of years before man came on the scene) then how come fossils show carnivorous animals existed before man? -

- I fall into the old-Earth catagory, so I'll answer it from that perspective. Simply put, the Bible is obviously incorrect. Now - saying that, I know many will say "Well, if it's incorrect THERE, than it could be incorrect EVERYWHERE!". I suppose there's an argument for that. Ever read a Stephen King book, though? Often times, Mr. King goes into description of certain areas that actually DO exist - sometimes even history behind a specific event that has actually occured at some point. It's hardly ever 100% accurate, but there's no denying that the events/location actually DO exist and/or DID happen; it doesn't always need 100% accuracy for the point to be made. Essentially, carnivorous animals CAN exist before humans and that shouldn't be damaging to anybody's faith. If it is, well...forgive me for saying it, but it seems like a rather LARGE leap to make...

15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so, again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable action/thoughts. - The Infidel Guy [Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.] ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY 1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe. 2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally prior to Y. 3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being. 4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe. [Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future. But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot logically exist. Smiling]

- Does God know His thoughts before He thinks them? To answer yes or no conclusively, I'd need to be on par with God Himself in terms of mentality, and I certainly won't make that claim. Erego, there's no conclusive answer to be made or inferred either way. Thinking is indeed a temporal process, when you apply it to humans. Humans are, by definition, finite creations. You can't apply finite descriptions and modifiers on something that is, by definition, infinite. Scientifically, that would not be accurate and would ruin the test. If, however, you use infinite modifiers to examine an infinite subject, than your conclusions would be accurate. By scientific definition, however, the accepted/common parameters for testing do not allow for the comparison of mortal/finite and immortal/infinite because of the very nature of the difference between the two. This is, of course, very hard to qualify, but then you come right back to square one, which is - religion is an article of faith alone and cannot be proven or disproven using any known scientific method. To think otherwise is folly. Debate on the existance of a God is engaging and often times thought provoking, but the assertion that God can be either proven or disproven using scientific evidence is simply inaccurate on both counts. Thus, using thought-process evidence in humans and applying the same parameters to a being who does not have to necessarily subscribe to them simply doesn't work at all towards disproving (or proving the existance of) God, and that much, at least, is indeed scientifically provable.

16. I have often heard that faith is all that is neccessary to believe in God and accept the Bible as true. If this is true aren't all supernatural beliefs true since they also require "faith"? - IG ON FAITH 1.) A prerequisite to believe in a Faith is faith. 2.) Having faith is all that is required to accept a Faith (belief) as true. 3.) All Faiths are true. [Note: Of course all Faiths aren`t true, but this is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from a person that states that, "Faith" is how one knows God.]

- Religion is a matter of faith. As I've already asserted, the existance of a God cannot be proven or disproven using any scientific method because the same factoring processes cannot be logically used, otherwise the conclusions drawn are inherently flawed. The beauty of all this is that, in the United States, you're legally free to believe in anything you want. Smiling

17. Why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve after the Fall and start from scratch? Actually, if God is all-knowing wouldn't he know that man would need to be killed eventually anyway, (the biblical flood)? Why create Adam and Eve at all? - ALSCARLATA@aol.com and infidelguy@infidelguy.com ON THE GARDEN OF EDEN 1.) God is omniscient (all-knowing). 2.) God knew that before he created man that they would eat of the tree of knowledge. 3.) God placed the tree of knowledge in the Garden anyway. 4.) God wanted sin to enter the world. [Note: If God didn`t want sin to enter the world, why create Adam and Eve at all? He knew what would happen. Why place the forbidden trees in the Garden in the first place?]

- Adam and Eve were perfect "in concept". That is to say they were exactly what He was looking for when He created mankind. They had free will and the ability to make their own decisions, as do the human beings of today. The creation of Adam and Eve gave God pleasure because He had created something with free will, the ability to learn from it's mistakes (or not) and choose it's own destiny. Did God know what would eventually happen with the flood? Perhaps. Is it too much of a stretch to say that, while omnipotent and infinitely powerful, maybe God can elect to use those abilities selectively in order to avoid infinite boredom? I would say that, out of a God easily capable of accomplishing the infinite, that would be very easy to do. As to God wanting sin to enter the world, I've already covered that above.

18. If a spirit is non-physical but the human body is physical, how does a spirit stay in our bodies? - IG ON SPIRITS 1.) Spirits are not physical entities. 2.) Brains are physical entities. 3.) Past experiences are stored in our physical brains, we call that, Memory.. 4.) Injury can damage portions of the physical brain that store memory and can alter or erase memories completely. 5.) If human spirits exist... after death, spirits can have no memory. [Note: Some will say the spirit stores physical memories as well, but if true, the spirit would have to be physical at least to a degree. How could a non-physical spirit store, physical memories?]

- This goes back to answering why there would be no unhappiness in Heaven if your friends/family were in Hell, doesn't it? Look at point 5 (after death, spirits can have no memory) and there you have your own answer to both points. "The former things are passed away"...I personally believe that the spirit (mentally stored) will retain some memory of it's Earthly life/connections (all faith on my part, I can't prove any of that), but overwhelmingly you go back to your TRUE family - God Himself.

19. Does God know his own future decisions? If God is all-knowing he actually shouldn't have any decisions to make at all. Nor can he choose anything over something else. For that would mean that he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. In fact, he can't even think if this is the case. Since he can't DO anything, he might as well not exist. - IG ON GOD'S IMMUTABILITY - Unchangingness 1. If God exists, then he is immutable. 2. If God exists, then he is the creator of the universe. 3. An immutable being cannot at one time have an intention and then at a later time not have that intention. 4. For any being to create anything, prior to the creation he must have had the intention to create it, but at a later time, after the creation, no longer have the intention to create it. 5. Thus, it is impossible for an immutable being to have created anything (from 3 and 4). 6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist (from 1, 2, and 5) - Theodore M. Drange

- This is the same question as #15, simply reworded. Same answer applies - you're putting physical/human limitations on a non-physical/non-human limitless. Erego, the "regular" rules can't apply and thus the answer cannot be found scientifically. If God is capable of infinite, than quite frankly he can make and break rules of human limitation as He sees fit to do so. Therefore, points 1-6 above can either apply, or not, whichever suits His needs at the time in question.

20. If God is all-knowing, how could he be disappointed in His creation? -- Pm453ca@aol.com [Note: Indeed, wouldn't God know that before the creation of our Universe what creatures would disappoint him? That being the case why create those creatures at all? Also, in knowing absolutely the behavior of humans before creation, God cannot be disappointed either... for this world is exactly as he has planned it to be. If it's not, why create us at all?]

- He could have known before the creation of our universe what creatures would disappoint Him. But, since He was busy with the creation of a creature that had free will as well, I would make the basic assumption that He probably made some effort not to examine the eventual outcome of what creatures/people would disappoint Him. Otherwise, there would logically be no reason for Him to create free will at all. Since God, as an article of faith, is ascribed to being infinite, He could choose not to see the future as He saw fit. Why create anything? Free will and the fun of being surprised. How many days would you personally enjoy if you knew everything that was going to happen before it ever did and you were NEVER surprised? This is not a hard concept to grasp. But yes, this world IS exactly how He has planned it to be - both extremely satisfactory and highly disappointing, and...maybe even a surprise. Free will is what it comes back to, over and over again. If God was honestly interested in the final outcomes and nothing else, than He would have had to look no further than His angels, because their destiny is manifest from start to finish. They lead existances of servitude and nothing more. My basic ideal is that He (God) first attempted concepts of free will on angels (e.g. Lucifer), and after the revolt and casting out of Lucifer and his legions, God created the concept of free will for human beings who could do far less damage with it. This might insinuate that God made a mistake with giving free will to angels - it also might not, but I'll examine that angle next time around.

 

Thanks guys!


leor613
Theist
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
Just Me... wrote: 1. If

Just Me... wrote:

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah?

- For the same reason people run stop signs, drive drunk, speed, weave in and out of lanes or otherwise drive like an
idiot.  Just because something's there and there's apparently a reason for it being there doesn't necessarily
mean everybody's going to get behind the idea of it.  No big mystery.

Thanks guys!

That is such a load of bull. If you were to actually read the Hebrew Bible, you'd notice a clear theme about Moshiach: he is going to take names and kick ass, leading to the physical as well as spiritual salvation of the Jews. Nowhere in the Hebrew Prophets is there a mention that Moshiach gets to screw up and come back a few thousand years later to try again. Nowhere ddoes it say that Moshiach's followers should persecute the Jews. Nowhere does it say that Moshiach will die in a humilating fashion, and the means of his death will become a holy symbol. Face it, Jesus did nto fuflfill a single one of the criteria from Isaiah, Daniel, or even Tzephaniah, and for you to say that Jews ignored that and didn't critically examine his claims is the height of arrogance. That you compare Jews to scofflaws is borderline anti-Semitic. I prefer the atheists here: at least they are intellectually honest.


leor613
Theist
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
I'm going to try to answer

I'm going to try to answer number 10, albeit from a Jewish perspective. If I understand the question correctly, you want to knwo why god does not speak reveal himself directly to the entire world, rather than using individual prophets to convey his words. According to Jewish tradition (which you are welcome to reject) HaShem did exactly that at Mount Sinai: he spoke directly to the People of Israel. They were terrified by the experience, as recounted in Exodus 20:15-16, and demanded that Moses be an intermediary between HaShem and the people, lest the people die from the experience. There is a Midrash (which I've been researching in my library this morning, but can't find the exact source) that says that they actually did die, and were resurrected after hearing the first two of the Aseret HaDibros, and they didn't want to repeat the experience. The rest of the Torah was given to them by Moses.


thiest1
Theist
Posts: 104
Joined: 2007-05-22
User is offlineOffline
dumb questions

these are dumb questions for thiests, shouldnt you be asking certain realms of theists only? i mean half of them are based not on plain thiesm but biblical interpretation or koranic or whatever, ill answer the last one for fun!

89. What is a god supposedly made of? --AI

i would say he is supposubly made of the same substance as time is made of, so what is time made of? you do belive that time exists dont you?


nonbobblehead
Theist
Posts: 128
Joined: 2007-05-18
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote: List of

Sapient wrote:
List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers. 1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay 2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"? 3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy 4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.] 5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.] 6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.] 7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL 1.) God's love is superlative. 2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self. 3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture. 4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical. 8. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca. Each prayer includes a variety of ritualism and posturing. If a muslim astronaut were to land on Mars. Prayer to Mecca would be ritualistically impossible due to the rotation of Earth and Mars. Are Muslims stuck here in Earth? IG [Note: Since this was first posted, a Muslim astronaut was faced with this very dilemma. The authoritative clergy informed him to pray as he normally would. I see this no where in the Koran. You see? Religions must change, or die out. It's interesting to note that, in the Koran, the moon is believed to be in the lowest Heaven, the level for those that barely made it to Heaven. Surah 71:15-16. One problem, no man can supposedly get to Heaven until they die. Yet, we've been to the moon. Our satellites beyond that.] 9. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.] 10. Why does God entrust the spreading of 'His' word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself? - IG [Note: Surely God would have known that not everyone would be convinced by the reality[sic] of his Bible. If God loves us so much, we are all going to Heaven. If God knew that I would be an atheist, and he doesn't like atheists, he shouldn't have allowed me to come into existence. But he did. Therefore, I must be serving the will of God, for I exist. Smiling] 11. In II Kings 2-23/24 we read about God sending 2 she-bears to attack children for calling the prophet Elisa bald, which he was, the bears killed 42 of the children. Was this a good thing to do? -- Brandon and IG[Note: I have heard some argue that the boys were a gang. So?! I didn't read anywhere in that passage where they laid a finger on the guy . Also, what kind of bears are these that can kill 42 kids? Super Bears? Surely the kids had to be running away.] 12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy 13. Why did God allow Lot and his daughters to escape from Sodom and Gomorra when he destroyed it only to later have Lot and his daughters engage in incestuous fornication. (Genesis 19:30-36) - Disillusioned [Note: To have intercourse with daddy dearest of course.] 14. Genesis 1:28-29 shows that man and all the animals were first created herbivorous. Most young-earth Christians (ones that believes the earth is less than 10,000 years old) say that the fall of man resulted in carnivorous animals ( hence death of animals). So, why did God punish the animal kingdom, making animals kill and devour each other because of man's mistake? Or, if you're an old-earth Christian (one that accepts that animals existed on earth for billions of years before man came on the scene) then how come fossils show carnivorous animals existed before man? - http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/contact.htm. 15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so, again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable action/thoughts. - The Infidel Guy [Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.] ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY 1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe. 2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally prior to Y. 3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being. 4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe. [Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future. But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot logically exist. Smiling] 16. I have often heard that faith is all that is neccessary to believe in God and accept the Bible as true. If this is true aren't all supernatural beliefs true since they also require "faith"? - IG ON FAITH 1.) A prerequisite to believe in a Faith is faith. 2.) Having faith is all that is required to accept a Faith (belief) as true. 3.) All Faiths are true. [Note: Of course all Faiths aren`t true, but this is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from a person that states that, "Faith" is how one knows God.] 17. Why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve after the Fall and start from scratch? Actually, if God is all-knowing wouldn't he know that man would need to be killed eventually anyway, (the biblical flood)? Why create Adam and Eve at all? - ALSCARLATA@aol.com and infidelguy@infidelguy.com ON THE GARDEN OF EDEN 1.) God is omniscient (all-knowing). 2.) God knew that before he created man that they would eat of the tree of knowledge. 3.) God placed the tree of knowledge in the Garden anyway. 4.) God wanted sin to enter the world. [Note: If God didn`t want sin to enter the world, why create Adam and Eve at all? He knew what would happen. Why place the forbidden trees in the Garden in the first place?] 18. If a spirit is non-physical but the human body is physical, how does a spirit stay in our bodies? - IG ON SPIRITS 1.) Spirits are not physical entities. 2.) Brains are physical entities. 3.) Past experiences are stored in our physical brains, we call that, Memory.. 4.) Injury can damage portions of the physical brain that store memory and can alter or erase memories completely. 5.) If human spirits exist... after death, spirits can have no memory. [Note: Some will say the spirit stores physical memories as well, but if true, the spirit would have to be physical at least to a degree. How could a non-physical spirit store, physical memories?] 19. Does God know his own future decisions? If God is all-knowing he actually shouldn't have any decisions to make at all. Nor can he choose anything over something else. For that would mean that he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. In fact, he can't even think if this is the case. Since he can't DO anything, he might as well not exist. - IG ON GOD'S IMMUTABILITY - Unchangingness 1. If God exists, then he is immutable. 2. If God exists, then he is the creator of the universe. 3. An immutable being cannot at one time have an intention and then at a later time not have that intention. 4. For any being to create anything, prior to the creation he must have had the intention to create it, but at a later time, after the creation, no longer have the intention to create it. 5. Thus, it is impossible for an immutable being to have created anything (from 3 and 4). 6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist (from 1, 2, and 5) - Theodore M. Drange 20. If God is all-knowing, how could he be disappointed in His creation? -- Pm453ca@aol.com [Note: Indeed, wouldn't God know that before the creation of our Universe what creatures would disappoint him? That being the case why create those creatures at all? Also, in knowing absolutely the behavior of humans before creation, God cannot be disappointed either... for this world is exactly as he has planned it to be. If it's not, why create us at all?] 21. God struck down the Tower of Babel angry at the intent of the people that built them, if this is the case, many of the great pyramids ( which are bigger than any ziggurat) around the world should be rubble also, yet many still stand today. Were not the Egyptians and many other ancient pyramid builders reaching toward God /The Heavens? - IG [Note: In actuality, many of the Pharaoh's believed that, via their pyramids, they would become God's themselves.] 22. In the watchmaker analogy, a watch is used to show us intelligent design and compares that to the Universe as evidence of design. We know watches are designed because we have past experience with watches, as well as with other man made objects. My question is: What Universe is the Intelligent Design proponent using to compare this Universe with to draw such an analogy? What God did he see create a Universe? - IG 23. Why did God flood the earth to remove evil? It didn't work! Evil came right back, God should have known that would happen! So why did He bother? - PhineasBg [Note: A good example of how quickly sin returned, was Noah getting drunk just after they discovered land.] 24. If the garden of Eden was a perfect paradise as xians claim, then why did Eve even want to eat the fruit? Wouldn't a perfect place provide everything a person would want or desire and thus she would want nothing? - keyser soze [Note: Why were the trees there in the first place? Of course they love to throw the serpent into the equation. But ummm..who let the serpent into the Garden?... and why would God create such a creature knowing he would cause man's fall? Hmm.. God must have wanted the fall to happen.] 25. Why would an all-powerful god become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself so that his creation might escape the wrath of himself. Couldn't god, in his infinite wisdom, come up with something a little more efficient? - Omphaloskeptic2@aol.com ON THE BODY OF CHRIST 1.) God?s flesh was known as Jesus. 2.) Flesh cannot enter into Heaven (according to Paul) 3.) God is no longer Jesus. 4.) Jesus doesn?t exist. (Note: Many at this point will state that the spirit lives on so therefore Jesus lives. This really depends on what you believe about Jesus. Is Jesus the son of God or God in flesh? If Jesus is merely the son there is no problem.However, if Jesus ?is? God himself, we do. You see, Jesus is called Jesus because of the attribute of Flesh. If Jesus = God (who is spirit) then the entity known as Jesus ceases to exist. The flesh/body of Jesus, no longer exists and the spirit of God is still the unchanging spirit of God. No Jesus at that point. The Flesh, called Jesus, is dead.) 26. After 9/11 a lot of people have been tossing around " god bless america". Why do they keep saying this? From the looks of it god hasn't blessed anything. If god had blessed america, the 9/11 event would've never happened. Theists seem to give the answer of "everything is part of gods big plan". If everything is part of gods big plan, why are we after Bin Laden? Wasn't he and other terrorists just carrying out gods desired plan? So it seems that Bin Laden/ terrorism isnt our enemy, but god . - rsri13@hotmail.com [Note: Unfortunately many religious nuts believe they are fulfilling their God's plan by going to war.] 27. Christians say that God is NOT the author of confusion. Can you say, Tower of Babel? - The Screaming Monkeys 28. If Noah's flood supposedly covered the earth for a year, regardless of whether or not all the animals could fit on the ark, what the heck happened to all the plants? Can you imagine a cactus surviving under 4 miles of water for a year? I can't either! - Kyle Giblet [Note: With God all things are possible. Oh wait, except in Judges 1:19.] 29. The highest rainfall ever recorded in a 24 hour period was 47inches in the Reunion Islands in 1947 (during a severe tropical storm). To cover the whole earth to a depth of 5.6 miles, and cover the mountain tops (i.e. Mount Everest), it would need to rain at a rate of 372 (three hundred and seventy two) inches per hour, over the entire surface of the earth. Can rain fall at such an astronomical rate? Where did all the water come from?? Where did it all go to??? And would not the dynamics of the earth be so out of balance (tides etc.) that the earth would become so unstable that it would wobble off into outer space???? - Richmond1@btinternet.com 30. What do Muslim women get in Paradise? - IG [Note: Some Muslims I have interviewed about this say that Muslim women will get the same thing men get or equal value. Smiling Oh really? So Muslim women will get 72 virgin men? lol. If Muslim men get 72 virgins, where are all these virgin women coming from? What of their freewill? Is Allah creating these women to be slaves to the men in Paradise?] 31. In the "Last Days" Jesus is supposed to appear in the clouds. How are the Christians on the opposite end of the world going to see him? Are there going to be millions of Jesus'? What about people that work underground? What about people in deep space? - thequester73@hotmail.com 32. The Bible says that God is a jealous God . How is this an example of a moral absolute of which man is supposed to follow? - IG ON GOD`S JEALOUSY 1.) "God is love." 1 John 4:8. 2.) "Love is not jealous." 1 Cor 13:4 3.) "I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God." Exodus 20:5. 4.) The Christian god cannot logically exist. (NOte: Basically love is NOT jealous, yet god is jealous, then God can`t be love. But if god IS love he cannot be jealous. Be he is.) 33. A true Muslim man is not supposed to do anything that the prophet Muhammad didn't do. If one remembers there was a big debate over whether or not Muslims should eat Mangos. If this is true, why in the Hell were these Islamic Fundamentalists flying airplanes? - IG 34. If the earth was covered by a complete global flood, every living creature killed except those surviving on the ark, why are there many completely unique animal species in Australia that are found no where else indigenously on the earth? - mitch@mchsi.com 35. If god is omniscient and " god is love," why would he allow a child to be conceived, knowing that that child would one day reject him and spend eternity burning in a lake of fire?- TiredTurkeyProd 36. Revelations is supposed to take place on Earth. What if we colonize the moon or Mars or inhabit a self-sustaining space station? Do we escape "judgement"? -- Ray Sommers [Note: No we don't Ray... and of course we all know that if there is any intelligent life out there besides us, they are all going to Hell too. Eye-wink] 37. Isaiah 40:28 says, "...the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is he weary?" If this is true, why did God rest on the seventh day?- IG 38. Everytime I go to a funeral the preacher and guests always say that " God " has called that person to Heaven or they say, " God said it was time to come home", or some such variation. If God is calling these people "home", why are we putting the murderers of these victims in prison? How can we punish a man or woman for doing God's will? - IG 39. Does God have a gender? In most churches, God is predominately referred to as a "he"? - IG [Note: The Bible says God is male, but what does this mean? Does God have a penis? Does he have hormones that dictate his gender? Smiling] 40. Why can't we wait until we get to Heaven to worship God ? Why would it be too late? - IG 41. What is the purpose of prayer? What can a finite being on Earth possibly tell an omnipotent, omniscient deity that he doesn't know already? - IG ON PRAYER 1.) Humans can?t change God?s mind for he has a divine plan and is unchangeable. 2.) Prayer can't change God's mind. 3.) Prayer doesn't change anything. (Prayer may make you feel better emotionally, but it doesn`t change God`s mind.) 42. Some say Jesus was the all-knowing God. Jesus would have known then that when he died he'd be in heaven in less than 3 days to rule. If Jesus is alive and ruling today, what did he sacrifice? -- Cyndy Hammond 43. God knows that men are sinners, untrustworthy and evil, why does God leave it up to fallible man (clergy..etc) to teach others about his word? Why would he put our eternal souls at risk if he loves us so much? - The Infidel Guy and Danno778 44. Did Adam have nipples? If so, how did he acquire them? In fact, why would God give "later man" nipples at all? They serve no purpose other than lactation. Some say pleasure. Where is that in Genesis exactly? All mammals have nipples as well, are theirs pleasureful for them too? Many men don't find their nipples pleasurable at all. - IG 45. How did Adam and Eve know it was wrong to disobey God if they hadn't eaten of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) yet? You can't blame them if they didn't know. - IG 46. If God has such a tremendous problem with uncircumcised penises, why did he make man with foreskin in the first place? - IG [Note: Some say, "So God can recognize his chosen people." Recognize? Is God so stupid that he has to physically look at men's penises? If not God, do other men need to? lol.] 47. Did Noah have fish onboard? Salt or Fresh? Since fresh water fish would die in salt, and salt water fish would die in fresh, only one type of fish would survive. Yet....?" - Frank Monaco 48. Why does the omnipotent, omnipresent God need help from man or angels to spread his word or do acts? - IG [Note: Some say God doesn't need help. But apparently he does.] - IG 49. How did Jesus ascend to Heaven in the Flesh when Paul says that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven? (1 Cor.15:50) - IG [Note: Some say, well Paul said that and not Jesus. Yet they quote Paul when it suits there purposes.] 50. If God wants us to live right and choose "the good," why did he create evil? (Isaiah 45:6,7) Not to mention he already knows which people are not going to choose "the good" so why create those people in the first place? It seems that many people are born to go to Hell. - IG ON HELL 1.) God is all-knowing. 2.) Before I was born God knew I wouldn?t believe in him. 3.) I was born to go to Hell. (Sure you may say I have a choice, but I think I`ve proven already that I really don`t. I`m simply fulfilling the will of God by being an atheist aren`t I? If I`m not, I shouldn`t exist: For God would have known that before I was created that I wouldn`t believe in him.) 51. I hear Christians all the time speaking of a spiritual war between Heaven and Hell, if this is true does God have limitations of power? Man only conducts wars because of our limitations of power and foresight. God has both all-power and all-knowledge, no reason for war of any kind. - IG 52. The Bible is full of phrases beginning with, "and the lord saw". Didn't he know before hand? - IG 53. How can a psychologist condone belief in something not proven to exist, when people are put into mental institutions on a daily basis for the same thing? i.e. aliens, fairies, imaginary people (Multiple Personality Disorders..)? - Dan Denton [Note: I'm sure that some of the pious believe that they are improperly placed there as well Dan. Smiling] 54. If Christians say they know God exists and that he will work miracles, what do they need faith for? Faith is not knowing. - IG 55. Brain, or shall I say, body transplants, will eventually be possible, where would the soul be then? Where is the soul? - IG 56. If God really wants us to know him, why doesn't he place the knowledge of him in our minds at birth? The same way many theists believe that God implants our sense of right and wrong in us a right birth. - IG 57. If God was Jesus' father (not Joseph), then why is Jesus' family tree traced through Joseph? -- Cyndy Hammond 58. What image of God was man made from? Couldn't have been a moral one or physical one. - IG [Note: One would suspect that an image of God would be perfect and cannot sin. Oops.] 59. Why can't God appear before everyone at the same time? Everyone in the world would then "know" he exists and not have solely "believe". And please, don't say he already tried that. Surely a God knows exactly what to do to convince a measly human of his existence. - IG 60. According to the New Testament Matthew 5:17 says "Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete. I tell you this: so long as heaven and earth endure, not a letter, not a stroke, will disappear from the Law until all that must happen has Happened." So since Jesus has not returned the "Law" is still in effect, so why aren't we still burning witches, stoning adulterers and disobedient children, killing homosexuals, ostracizing people that work on the Sabbath (nurses, doctors etc.), flinging blood onto the horns of the alter, pulling off the heads of small birds, and don't forget human sacrifice to God (Leviticus 27 P.28 )? -- Sheila L. Chambers 61. If there is freewill in Heaven yet everyone has chosen good and is happy, isn't that proof that God could have made us with freewill, choosing good ( God ) and still being happy on Earth? - Dennis Hendrix [Note: In other words, evil didn't have to exist after all. Hey wait, even in Heaven apparently, evil can exist. At least for a short while. Satan became evil and was in heaven. Apparently he even had enough time to form an Army against God. Wow. Maybe Heaven won't be as peaceful as many believe.] 62. Why does God have a plan? Man is limited in power so we make plans because we are not all-knowing nor all-powerful. If God has a plan, isn't he reduced to a mere finite being? - IG 63. How could the all-merciful/loving God watch billions of his children burn over and over again for eternity? - IG [Note: Of course this is geared to those that believe in a fiery hell. I am well aware that not all Christians believe in a fiery Hell.] 64. Before reading and writing were invented (5000BC), on what basis did God use to judge the people who died before the Hebrew and Greek text (BIBLE) were written? -- agent2g@aol.com [Note: They are all roasting in Hell. Smiling] 65. Many Christians tell me that I will "burn in hell". If I have a soul, how can a soul burn? Aren't souls non-physical entities? - IG [Note: Some Christians groups believe that you will be given new bodies after judgement. However, if true, what's the significance of a spirit in the first place?] 66. How can one hold to the barbaric belief that something has to DIE in order to appease a god for a bad deed? -- Nickolaus Wing [Note: Because an old book says so Nick.] 67. Why does SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) occur? Why would God allow a baby to live for such a short period of time? Why not just let them not be born in the first place? -- Terry Clark [Note: This actually happened to a friend of mine. Not even God himself could console her.] 68. If Jesus was nailed and died on Friday evening, and walked out of the tomb on Sunday morning, where's the 3rd NIGHT he predicted? Per Matthew 12:40: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. - buckcash@buckcash.com 69. Many Christians claim that hell is merely existence outside of God ?s presence (C.S. Lewis among others). If this is the case, then Jesus could not have descended into hell (being God Himself). As a result, are you sure your sins are forgiven? - Byron Bultsma 70. Ten to twenty percent of all women who discover they are pregnant suffer a miscarriage. Also, it is estimated that anywhere from 14 to 50 percent of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Seeing this is all part of God 's plan, does this make God the world's number one abortion provider? - Jim 71. What if, when you get to Heaven, you saw God causing pain and suffering out of anger or for the purpose of entertaining himself. What if he required people in heaven to praise and worship him non-stop even to the point of causing his worshipers discomfort, pain and boredom. What if, when he was bored, angry, or jealous, he would create natural disasters to make himself feel better. Would you still follow him? - Fernando [Note: Of course they would Fernando, many people followed Hitler out of fear as well.] 72. In Leviticus, the bible condemns homosexuality as an "abomination", giving some Christians a reason to hate, harass, torture and kill gays and even picket their funderals with " God hates fags" signs. In the same book of the bible the eating of shellfish is equally an "abomination". Are these Christians planning to go after the patrons of Red Lobster next? - buckcash@buckcash.com [Note: hee-hee, that's all I can say. Jewish Law states that eating Fish without scales is an abomination and thus the Shark is one among the list. However, sharks do have scales, Placoid scales, one of the many reasons why a shark is called a Fish .] 73. Christians will tell you that if a baby dies it goes to heaven. Why then are they so against abortion? All the child is being deprived of is the opportunity to go to hell. Either that or god expects unborn fetuses to accept Jesus. - dissolvedego@satannet.org 74. If one could prove to you incontrovertibly that Jesus and God were all human fabrications would still believe? And why? - LOGICnREASON [Note: If you say yes. Then you are not concerned with the truth, you simply WANT to believe; and if you WANT to believe, indeed, there is nothing anyone can tell you..] 75. It is often said that God allows evil because one could not meaningfully appreciate good without experiencing its opposite. Why is it necessary to experience the opposite of something in order to appreciate it? Must I experience death in order to meaningfully appreciate life? -excidius 76. Bible literalists want you to believe that God's Word in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. If this is the case, why was Jesus fond of explaining things in parable and metaphor? Was Jesus literally discussing the biology of mustard seeds, or was the mustard seed parable meant to be interpreted figuratively as faith? -excidius 77. Liberal Christians say some parts of the Bible are literally true, but much else is to be interpreted figuratively as allegory. How do you know which is which? What distinguishing criteria are used? How can you be certain "God" is a literal and not a figurative concept? -excidius 78. Consciousness is the result of a physical brain, how could God being metaphysical be said to be conscious or sentient without having a brain? - Mindless 79. Considering how Leviticus is considered old law, and that Christians do not obey it anymore, why do they always use it to defend homosexuality being an "abomination"? -Bohorquez 80. If God is omnipotent and he has a plan ... then why did he not create the universe as it will be one second after the plan has succeeded? Who or what prevented him from doing that? - Timothy Campbell (http://www.tc123.com) 81. The large majority of people who have ever existed could not have learned of the Bible or Jesus Christ. And many people afterwards have found other religions or no religion at all to be more convincing, sometimes while being very virtuous. Do all these people really deserve eternal torment because of that? -- lpetrich 82. The above arguments also apply among different sects of Christianity, many of which state that most others are not True Christianity. -- lpetrich 83. Is it reasonable for the Creator and Ruler of such a vast Universe to be preoccupied with the sexuality of a species living on a tiny little planet? -- lpetrich 84. If the Christian god was all loving and all knowing why did he let religious figures such as Mohammed or Gautama Budda be born, knowing that they would mislead people from the 'true' faith and trick the majority of the world's population into burning forever in hell (in fact, if Islam didn't start, most of the middle east would probably be Christian). It would simple to use the Holy Spirit to guide them to Jesus and spread the 'true' faith. If the Holy Spirit exits, it certainly isn't doing it's job! 85. If one is obliged to follow all the teachings of the bible then why is engaging in homosexuality or adultery any worse than "suffering a witch to live", "muzzling the ox that treadeth the corn", "reaping the corners of thy field", "marring the corners of they beard", "plowing with an oxen and an ass", "hating thy brother in thy heart" or "eating frogs, shellfish and eels" ? 86. Exactly how did the alleged worldwide flood kill off all the world's sea creatures? How does one go about drowning a fish? -- Steever 87. Why did this alleged god create humans as an animal form of life that gets sick and dies and experiences pain and has a limited mind when 'it' could have created humans as a form of pure energy or of some indestructible material or whatever, and was totally ?sinless? and had ?pure? thought? If a god was omnipotent 'it' could have easily have done this. --AI 88. If a god is omnipotent how did 'it' fail to foresee that Satan would turn against 'it'? --AI 89. What is a god supposedly made of? --AI This list was compiled by the Infidel Guy with submissions from many members of the atheist community. PICK THE QUESTION YOU WANT TO ANSWER, AND POST IT HERE...

 I think virtually every single question is appropriate in that a creature that has the power to reason, has every right to ask these questions of its Creator. The fact that the questions are being asked at all, shows that we are not products of random processes.

If applied to the honest reporting written down and collected into what we call "The Bible" (The Torah, The Writings, The Prophets, the Gospels, the Epistles and Revelation), we see the very same amount of questioning.

 All the questions seem to point to the Creator for the answers. Fine tuning the truth is a noble endeavor.

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


nonbobblehead
Theist
Posts: 128
Joined: 2007-05-18
User is offlineOffline
leor613 wrote: I'm going to

leor613 wrote:
I'm going to try to answer number 10, albeit from a Jewish perspective. If I understand the question correctly, you want to knwo why god does not speak reveal himself directly to the entire world, rather than using individual prophets to convey his words. According to Jewish tradition (which you are welcome to reject) HaShem did exactly that at Mount Sinai: he spoke directly to the People of Israel. They were terrified by the experience, as recounted in Exodus 20:15-16, and demanded that Moses be an intermediary between HaShem and the people, lest the people die from the experience. There is a Midrash (which I've been researching in my library this morning, but can't find the exact source) that says that they actually did die, and were resurrected after hearing the first two of the Aseret HaDibros, and they didn't want to repeat the experience. The rest of the Torah was given to them by Moses.

Great answer. God is still speaking loudly to people today through their rational mind and being rejected by the crowds just like the masses of Israelites of Moshe's day. People would rather be led by other people so that they have pat little excuses for their mistakes. Like Paul wrote in his letter to the Romans, God is known by all by the very existence of the universe, and rejected by many anyway.

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


Eloise
Theist
Eloise's picture
Posts: 1804
Joined: 2007-05-26
User is offlineOffline
  Woah that is a LOT of

 

Woah that is a LOT of Questions. I haven't seen quite this many before. Okay here goes...

 

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

It's the self same story in all ancient wisdom, the devout don't know what they are on about in their prophecies. They expect the actions of God to match their ideas formed from the abstract knowledge which they have, but their ideas don't match the God that promised them those things. It's the good part in its own way. Would you like it if real God has the same ideas as all his followers? Nah... I didn't think so.

2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

Because Gen 3:24 is an archaic knowledge handed down in verbal tradition for thousands of years before it was ever written down. The Seven Days and the Garden of Eden are an ancient dissemination of the primeval physical parts of earth and heaven. There are seven days to creation, and it is made quite clear from the start of the story that 'days' are the separation of light from darkness, aspect from void, and that the sun and moon are a symbol of this. So then this ancient knowledge of the Genesis of the universe, basically, tells us that something was split from nothing seven ways. Each way opening up new possibilities for life in God's omnipotent universe. The seventh way, the last way, is sacred. Why would it be sacred, why would the sign of the end point of creation be something we would be asked to remember? because it is the new beginning point, it is, in terms of the eminent process of life becoming, the preordained cusp of where a new day must, by definition, be. The seventh day, not the fifth... but we can look for the fifth if you so wish.

The ancients who spoke Genesis contend that the Garden of Eden was created in terms of a previous emergence of life from void. This is not unreasonable even to the rational mind, there are yet even to us in our sophistication of knowledge and logic, still underlying physical laws, which we don't yet, but do seek diligently to, understand. And so the Genesis speakers further contend that Eden is closed in by cherubim (young messengers) with swords of fire (truth). What is implied by young messengers here is that the wings of these angels (which you will come to find, through study of the ancient languages of mythology, represents a non absolute state in physical terms known as 'astral&#39Eye-wink are of a youthful part of the evolution of time. This non absolute state holds a flaming (that means dual) truth. In other eastern teachings this is called 'not this, not that'. This is what is meant by these swords turning each way. And so I am saying we will find them, we simply must look in the right way first, if we care to. 

 

3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy

Isn't it more likely that the Euphrates was named after the creation myths and is not the river in them? After all Noahs great deluge should erase any possibility that the same rivers stood in the same place between the eon of eden and more recent days of the world, even if we did take this archaic grandfather tale literally. As for original people coming from Africa, I was under the impression that even older remains had been found in other places of the world in the last couple of decades. But anyway besides that, it is only fair to give the first book due credit on its own terms. It does appear to get a few empirical things right with surprising coincedence such as woman being made from but one part of man. This could be a quite accurate reference to chromosomal differences, and the concept of light being the heart of all matter. Before this there was simply void. And please before you argue this point with gen 1:1 do the right thing and throw that deplorable millenium translation in the bin where it belongs and read the literal words. It does not say God created heaven and earth before light, it introduces the story by saying in the beginning OF God creating the heavens and earth there was nothing, just polarities of being and void reflecting upon each other.

 

4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

This question is easy to answer from a Gnostic Christian point of view. Such things are not overlooked there, the Bodhisattiva reaching the heavens of blissful union with God does not merely feel compassion for loved ones condemned by their unknowing, but for all humanity equally. anyone who has less than this, the divine human would forestall his bliss for. however long it takes for humanity to get there with him.

 

5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]

There is not a one emotion that an omnipresent God would not experience. You have answered your own question. Imagining the turmoil of omnipresent being's emotional state seems a little ridiculous, but that is the concept we are dealing with here. Such a God feels the sadness of a lonely child as equally as the joy of a prosperous collective. Each of these empirical realities are the reality of emotions which an omnipresent God is feeling.

 


6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

No, it does come down to choice. Your being is not local, you are not uninvolved in this heaven/hell thing, your self is not separate from your world. We have been wrong about that. We did choose this, we did choose the world under these laws, they are not imposed on us. We are much more more involved in the whole of our reality than we ever gave ourselves credit for. You are not local to your llittle self's time and space at all, soon this will become quite clear. In the mean time imagine the universe you are in as a fractal image, it follows its function indefinitely, all possible paths of the pattern emerge from the same function, you emerge from the same function. The choice between heaven and hell is quite simply a part of the same function. You emerge from it, and hence so do these dual realities apply to you. If the universe is a function, then that function must have a solution equalling YOU and all other solutions of that function be they heaven or hell are not to your detriment no matter how you look at it. They are other solutions of the one function that equals YOU, hence if they weren't there, neither would you be there. THink about that.

 

7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG
ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL
1.) God's love is superlative.
2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self.
3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture.
4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

Mans love of self does not prohibit torture. You are mistaken. The road to pain is burdened down with all kinds of self love in man's terms. Ambition, gratification, the inevitable neurotic end of too much hedonistic virtue leading to an irrational fear of lack, for millenia we have lead ourselves down a garden path of self love in the past humanity has let it gratify itself with bloodlust and conquest, to this day we are not that different and our current self torture is the the destruction of mans habitat . These things are quite real. The whole idea that man doesn't know how to torture himself with his ideals is just a falsity. I refute your third, sorry.

xxxxoooo

Eloise

Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist

www.mathematicianspictures.com


Eloise
Theist
Eloise's picture
Posts: 1804
Joined: 2007-05-26
User is offlineOffline
15. Many Christians believe

15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them
when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so,
again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable
action/thoughts.
- The Infidel Guy

 

I like this question. Very deep thinking here, yes I agree with you Infidel Guy. There must be an atemporal counterpart of thinking for an atemporal being.

Temporal thinking is basically and fundamentally capitulation. All-powerful beings do not capitulate, they are not governed by temporality.

A few years ago I gave a name to just such a counterpart of temporal thought. I called it Capricision, and I consider it the model of God thought, or, in the least part, one step from Capitulation toward God thought. I contend that Capricision; defined as a capricious flexibility in the ways of attending information; is not just a possibility that allows an omnipotent being to have foreknowledge that does not necessitate entanglement with the free will of its creation, but also this concept is a natural extension of the concept of parable, it is also even more remarkably, a process found in the natural biological world in the form of DNA reading exponential messages from the same coding. Thus, there you have, omnipotent thought.

 

[Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.]
ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY
1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe.
2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally
prior to Y.
3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being.
4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe.
[Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future.
But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot
logically exist. Smiling]

 

I disagree with your second premise. Not because it is illogical, but because it makes unknowable assumptions about the act of creation.

 

 

Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist

www.mathematicianspictures.com


Satansbitch
Posts: 54
Joined: 2007-02-02
User is offlineOffline
Eloise wrote: 15. Many

Eloise wrote:

15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them
when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so,
again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable
action/thoughts.
- The Infidel Guy

 

I like this question. Very deep thinking here, yes I agree with you Infidel Guy. There must be an atemporal counterpart of thinking for an atemporal being.

Temporal thinking is basically and fundamentally capitulation. All-powerful beings do not capitulate, they are not governed by temporality.

A few years ago I gave a name to just such a counterpart of temporal thought. I called it Capricision, and I consider it the model of God thought, or, in the least part, one step from Capitulation toward God thought. I contend that Capricision; defined as a capricious flexibility in the ways of attending information; is not just a possibility that allows an omnipotent being to have foreknowledge that does not necessitate entanglement with the free will of its creation, but also this concept is a natural extension of the concept of parable, it is also even more remarkably, a process found in the natural biological world in the form of DNA reading exponential messages from the same coding. Thus, there you have, omnipotent thought.

 

[Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.]
ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY
1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe.
2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally
prior to Y.
3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being.
4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe.
[Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future.
But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot
logically exist. Smiling]

 

I disagree with your second premise. Not because it is illogical, but because it makes unknowable assumptions about the act of creation.

 

 

You seem to be making huge assumptions about the thinking of God. Do you have any evidence of how an omnipotant being thinks other than a theory?


Satansbitch
Posts: 54
Joined: 2007-02-02
User is offlineOffline
leor613 wrote:I'm going to

leor613 wrote:
I'm going to try to answer number 10, albeit from a Jewish perspective. If I understand the question correctly, you want to knwo why god does not speak reveal himself directly to the entire world, rather than using individual prophets to convey his words. According to Jewish tradition (which you are welcome to reject) HaShem did exactly that at Mount Sinai: he spoke directly to the People of Israel. They were terrified by the experience, as recounted in Exodus 20:15-16, and demanded that Moses be an intermediary between HaShem and the people, lest the people die from the experience. There is a Midrash (which I've been researching in my library this morning, but can't find the exact source) that says that they actually did die, and were resurrected after hearing the first two of the Aseret HaDibros, and they didn't want to repeat the experience. The rest of the Torah was given to them by Moses.

Hey maybe you can answer a question for me. God spoke to Ezra through the Archangel Uriel and Ezra asks many questions about who will be given entrance into heaven and when will the end come. Ezra asks god about whether all the other men of the world, those who are not the children of Isreal, whether they will be given entrance to heaven. God says that they are like spittle and will not be given entrance to heaven. If that is true then why do christians believe in god? They have no chance whatsoever to get into heaven.

God also says to Ezra that as time goes by fewer and fewer men of isreal will be given entrance into heaven. The amount of Jews that gain entrance into heaven in our times should be almost none at all. Why do Jews still believe they will be given entrance into heaven?


LosingStreak06
Theist
LosingStreak06's picture
Posts: 768
Joined: 2007-05-22
User is offlineOffline
1. He didn't. 2. Gen 3:24

1. He didn't.

2. Gen 3:24 isn't true.

3. Africa.

4. No such thing, silly.

5. God neither has emotions nor is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.

6. No such thing, silly.

7. God isn't all-merciful, isn't all-knowing, and doesn't have a gender.

8. It would appear that if a Muslim wants to pray in a way that is proper to Islam, then Earth would be the place to do it.

9. God neither wants to heal amputees nor has a gender.

10.  No gender, no "word," no sin.

11. Not my God. Also, probably didn't happen. Also, children should respect their elders.

12. Irrelevant. My God doesn't use books. Or churches, for that matter.

13. Not my God. Also, probably didn't happen. Also, put your sister to the test.

14.  Genesis 1:28-29 never happened.

15.  God neither thinks nor has a gender. Also, God is not omniscient, and did not create the universe.

16. An irrational mind is an acceptable substitute for "faith," it would seem.

17. God is neither all knowing nor possesses a gender.

18.  "Spirits" do not exist.

19.  See 17.

20.  See 17. Also, God is incapable of disappointment.

21. God did not strike down any tower. God is incapable of anger.

22. Watches and universes are fundamentally different. It would be impossible for a being which lived inside a watch and had no method of detecting anything outside of said watch to determine the existence of a watchmaker.

23. God did not flood the earth.

24. No such thing.

25. God is not all powerful. God does not posess a gender. God did not create human beings. God is not all wise.

26. It makes them feel more patriotic. God does not make plans.

27. God is not an author, period.

28. Never happened.

29. See 28.

30. No objective paradise exists.

31. Not going to happen.

32. The Bible is incorrect. God is incapable of jealousy.

33. Perhaps they were motivated more by something other than religious beliefs. Perhaps they assumed that, had airplanes existed during Muhammad's time, he would have flown in one. There are many possibillities.

34. Never happened.

35. God is not omniscient. God is not love.

36. Not going to happen.

37. Isaiah 40:28 is wrong. Also, God does not have a gender.

38. God does not have a home. God does not call people. God does not have a gender. 

39. God does not have a gender.

40. No such place.

41. To focus one's thoughts and desires. God is not omniscient. God is not omnipotent. Also, see 39.

42. Jesus was not God. God is not all-knowing. Jesus is not in heaven. Heaven does not exist.

43.  Sin does not exist. God does not have a "word". Eternal souls do not exist. Also, see 39. 

44. God did not give men nipples.

45. Didn't happen.

46. God does not care about penises. God did not create foreskins.

47. No.

48. God is not omniscient. God is not omnipresent. Also, see 39.

49. Jesus did not ascend into heaven. Heaven does not exist.

50. God did not create evil. God is not all knowing. Also, see 39.

51. Heaven and Hell do not exist. God is not all powerful. God is not all knowing.

52. God is not all knowing. God does not have eyes.

53. People are placed involuntarily into psychiatric wards when they pose a danger to themselves or others. 

54. They are lying.

55. Souls do not exist.

56. God doesn't want all of us to know It. Also, see 39.

57. God was not Jesus' father.

58. Man was not made from an image of God.

59. God does not desire to convince everyone of Its existence. Also, see 39.

60.  The New Testament is wrong.

61. There is no free will. There is no heaven.

62. God does not have a plan. God is not all knowing. God is not all powerful. God is finite. Also, see 39.

63. God is not all-merciful. Hell does not exist. Also, see 39.

64. God does not judge people. God does not use written text. Hell does not exist. Also, see 39.

65. Souls do not exist. Hell does not exist.

66. Because one is barbaric, I presume.

67. God neither causes nor prevents SIDS.

68. Never happened. Ironically enough, neither did the story of Jonah and the whale.

69.  Hell does not exist. Also, see 39.

70. God does not have a plan. God does not cause miscarriages.

71. Heaven does not exist.

72. The Bible is wrong.

73. There is no heaven.

74. I don't believe to begin with.

75. No.

76. Biblical literalists are wrong.

77. The Bible has nothing to do with my God.

78. God is neither metaphysical nor sentient (to my knowledge).

79. Leviticus is not a reliable source of morality.

80.  God is not omniscient. God does not have a plan. Also, see 39.

81. There is no eternal torment. Jesus was not God.

82. If we want to get technical, there is no "true" Christianity.

83. God is not the creator of the universe. God is not concerned with human sexuality.

84. The Christian God does not exist. The Holy Spirit does not exist. Also, see 39.

85. One is not obliged to follow the teachings of the Bible.

86. Never happened.

87. God did not create humans. God is not omnipotent.

88. The word you are looking for is "omniscient." God is neither omniscient nor omnipotent.

89. Mine is made of frozen yogurt, sugar, and the juices and pulp of strawberries, raspberries, and blackberries. 

I hope that my answers were satisfactory.


Eloise
Theist
Eloise's picture
Posts: 1804
Joined: 2007-05-26
User is offlineOffline
Satansbitch wrote:

Satansbitch wrote:
Eloise wrote:

15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them
when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so,
again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable
action/thoughts.
- The Infidel Guy

 

I like this question. Very deep thinking here, yes I agree with you Infidel Guy. There must be an atemporal counterpart of thinking for an atemporal being.

Temporal thinking is basically and fundamentally capitulation. All-powerful beings do not capitulate, they are not governed by temporality.

A few years ago I gave a name to just such a counterpart of temporal thought. I called it Capricision, and I consider it the model of God thought, or, in the least part, one step from Capitulation toward God thought. I contend that Capricision; defined as a capricious flexibility in the ways of attending information; is not just a possibility that allows an omnipotent being to have foreknowledge that does not necessitate entanglement with the free will of its creation, but also this concept is a natural extension of the concept of parable, it is also even more remarkably, a process found in the natural biological world in the form of DNA reading exponential messages from the same coding. Thus, there you have, omnipotent thought.

 

[Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.]
ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY
1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe.
2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally
prior to Y.
3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being.
4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe.
[Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future.
But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot
logically exist. Smiling]

 

I disagree with your second premise. Not because it is illogical, but because it makes unknowable assumptions about the act of creation.

 

 

You seem to be making huge assumptions about the thinking of God. Do you have any evidence of how an omnipotant being thinks other than a theory?

Which huge assumptions about God? My only assumption in terms of God is that my theoretical model of computation has omnipotent application my assumptions are, therefore, only boasts about the model, granted they are a bit overt I can't be sure that it is omnipotent since I am not omnipotent, but I am quite confident that it is far more dynamical and illimitable and than classical computation, making it not such a logical leap to say it may be step in thinking between colloquial types and omniscience, and I did attempt, albeit weakly, to qualify myself by saying that too.

I was mostly attempting to answer the question posed, which I took to be asking how thinking and all knowingness could be reconciled with free will. My answer was that capricision (<-- you haven't heard of it because it is my own idea) is a method by which someone could know a lot of things but know them in a fundamentally cryptic fashion, hence when translation is absent direct knowledge is absent while absolute knowledge remains because all cryptics are a coherent set. You know the set, you actually know everything in a nutshell, but you don't compute it all in parallel so free will is unfettered. I offered it, I admit a little boastfully, as a possibility of answering the question. I hope that helps clarify and forgive my previous arrogance, please.

Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist

www.mathematicianspictures.com


drakehunter
Posts: 1
Joined: 2007-06-10
User is offlineOffline
One answer

I'm not gonna spend a lot of time answering all these questions, not that I really could answer ALL of them. I'm going to focus on one of them though. Number 42. Keeping in mind that Jesus was a Jew, he was bound by the Jewish laws and rituals. The one that concerns Him more than any other is the festival of Passover. This is the festival where the Jews celebrate their freedom from Egypt. It's also where the High Priest sacrificed a lamb, a perfect lamb, and doves in many  cases, to cleanse the sin of all of Israel. Jesus was crucified during the Passover festival. Thus he became the lamb of God, ie the perfect sacrifice, to cover all of man's sin. You asked what he sacrificed. In short, he sacrificed sin, which we all know can be fun, so that all men, not just Jews, can know God. He gave up lust, comfort, and power so that men could live within the grace of God. What man now would sacrifice as such? What man would give up his loins for the good of the people? And priests don't count. We all know they aren't really giving up that. I don't believe in doctrines, but I believe in a risen Saviour.


Pile
atheist
Pile's picture
Posts: 214
Joined: 2006-04-26
User is offlineOffline
drakehunter wrote: I'm not

drakehunter wrote:
I'm not gonna spend a lot of time answering all these questions, not that I really could answer ALL of them. I'm going to focus on one of them though. Number 42. Keeping in mind that Jesus was a Jew, he was bound by the Jewish laws and rituals. The one that concerns Him more than any other is the festival of Passover. This is the festival where the Jews celebrate their freedom from Egypt. It's also where the High Priest sacrificed a lamb, a perfect lamb, and doves in many cases, to cleanse the sin of all of Israel. Jesus was crucified during the Passover festival. Thus he became the lamb of God, ie the perfect sacrifice, to cover all of man's sin. You asked what he sacrificed. In short, he sacrificed sin, which we all know can be fun, so that all men, not just Jews, can know God. He gave up lust, comfort, and power so that men could live within the grace of God. What man now would sacrifice as such? What man would give up his loins for the good of the people? And priests don't count. We all know they aren't really giving up that. I don't believe in doctrines, but I believe in a risen Saviour.

So I take it you also believe that murdering innocent creatures is a suitable way to atone for transgressions?

How do you do this in your daily life? I'm curious. Do you say, bite the head off a bat every time you say a cuss word and didn't mean to? Do you murder a small kitten or dog if you have an impure thought? Do you ritualistically murder your virgin daughter to atone for the sins you've comitted? What kind of sadistic, pathetic, horribly morally corrupt human being would ever mandate the idea that murdering one creature is a suitable way of forgiving another???

I wish Jesus was real. Because I'd spit in his face. I'd eagerly accept any punishment this sadistic bastard of a god would tender. And I'd be proud to do so because I will never, ever condone such a totally offensive notion, such as the one upon which christianity is based.

 Past present or future, killing one person for the sins of another is CRAZY!

 

 


creativechic
Theist
Posts: 10
Joined: 2007-06-11
User is offlineOffline
Answer to 39

"39. Does God have a gender? In most churches, God is predominately referred to as a "he"? - IG [Note: The Bible says God is male, but what does this mean? Does God have a penis? Does he have hormones that dictate his gender? "Smiling]

 Good Questions, I'll answer some later, but this one seemed the easiest to answer so i'll start with this.

The answer is that God has NO gender! At least thats what my religion Judaism teaches (and I am fully aware that the OT refers to God as he). my own personal belief, did not learn this next part from Judaism ---->This is because culture effects religion. When the Torah(Old Testament) was written it was a very patriarichal society therefore to them God must be a man.


creativechic
Theist
Posts: 10
Joined: 2007-06-11
User is offlineOffline
Question 4

"4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.] "

This question was probably for christians, i just wanted to point out that not all religions believe in Hell.


creativechic
Theist
Posts: 10
Joined: 2007-06-11
User is offlineOffline
Questions 37 and 64

"37. Isaiah 40:28 says, "...the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is he weary?" If this is true, why did God rest on the seventh day?- IG "

Rest doesn't always mean that someone is tired. Rest can mean the cessation of activity.

"64. Before reading and writing were invented (5000BC), on what basis did God use to judge the people who died before the Hebrew and Greek text (BIBLE) were written? -- agent2g@aol.com [Note: They are all roasting in Hell. Smiling] "

They are not roasting in hell. In the begining the laws were passed orally, meaning being taught by teacher to student. And I do not believe that God faults people for breaking rules they are unaware of. And as a side note the Torah laws were not the first laws given, according to Judaism Noah was told laws by God to live by, As you all probably know and have read them they are called the Noachide laws. These are the laws that non jews are supposed to live by.


AImboden
Silver Member
AImboden's picture
Posts: 115
Joined: 2007-04-28
User is offlineOffline
One guy's opinion

I'm sure the people asking the questions know there is no reasonable answer to them.

 They are only asking them to demonstrate how stupid theism is.

 Adam


Eso
Posts: 4
Joined: 2007-06-26
User is offlineOffline
1. Romans 1 teaches that

1. Romans 1 teaches that the knowledge of God and sin have been made plain to all men and that they are without excuse if they choose to sin, which invariably leads to Hell.

2. When we make a choice, we select the option, from a set of multiple options, that we believe will lead to the most desirable outcome.

3. Hell is, by definition, the least desirable outcome.

4. Sin, which leads to Hell, can only be chosen by those who are ignorant of #3.

5. No one is ignorant (from #1), therefore, Hell is perpetually empty.

So the question is, are you aware of this fact, and if so, why bother preaching about Hell if the bible requires that it be empty? If you think people can go to Hell, then which part of Romans 1 do you reject?

It is worth noting that Romans 1 goes on to contradict itself by claiming that man freely chooses to be tortured for all eternity when there are other options on the table, all of which he is fully aware. When we freely choose, we choose what we want to, not what we don't want to. Since Hell has been defined as the epitome of what we don't want -- we cannot very well choose it. We will, by definition, choose any other available option.


Eso
Posts: 4
Joined: 2007-06-26
User is offlineOffline
These two passages, 1st

These two passages, 1st John 4:8 "God is love" (agape love) & 1st Corinthians 13:5 "love keeps no record of wrongs" (agape love), seem to be at odds with the notion that God keeps a record of sins for which death/eternal damnation is the wage we must pay.

Can this seeming contradiction be explained away without appealing to the notion that God is both "just" (as amorphous as that term may be) and "loving" and permitted to engage in such logical contradiction?

If not, and God does not comply with logic, do you realize that no statement made about God can trusted?

If God does not comply with logic, then the following syllogism needn't hold:

1. For all have fallen short of the glory of God.

2. Atheist X is a member of "all."

3. Atheist X has fallen short of the glory of God.

We simply cannot draw that conclusion if logic must be thrown out. In fact, we can't draw any conclusions about God -- whatsoever. Any premises and conclusions set forth in the bible must be scrapped. God either complies with logic -- which allows us to know God -- or God does not, in which case we cannot know God. This is a restriction of the human mind with which God must comply if we are to know God.


sseetal@gmail.com
Theist
Posts: 16
Joined: 2007-06-27
User is offlineOffline
Hi, Hope this helps. These

Hi,

Hope this helps. These are my thoughts and I don't represent my 1 Billion brothers/sisters. But I can at least share my findings...

8. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca. Each prayer includes a variety of ritualism and posturing. If a muslim astronaut were to land on Mars. Prayer to Mecca would be ritualistically impossible due to the rotation of Earth and Mars. Are Muslims stuck here in Earth? IG [Note: Since this was first posted, a Muslim astronaut was faced with this very dilemma. The authoritative clergy informed him to pray as he normally would. I see this no where in the Koran. You see? Religions must change, or die out. It's interesting to note that, in the Koran, the moon is believed to be in the lowest Heaven, the level for those that barely made it to Heaven. Surah 71:15-16. One problem, no man can supposedly get to Heaven until they die. Yet, we've been to the moon. Our satellites beyond that.]

The basis of the laws of Islam are formed by four ways in order of priority

1. Quran (The Book)
     2. Sunnah (The sayings of the Propeht PBUH)
     3. Fatwa's (I know this has always had a bad press but it's basically scholars making informed decisions on new things. The "informed" part is not always true.)
     4. Community Sensus (kinda like democracy).

As you can see from point 3, this can be done. That's how we can make decisions on new things.

"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor towards you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."  (Quran 5:3)

 

God (Allah) has given us the tools (mainly the above four) to live our lives. I'm not sure why there is belief that the religion cannot change. What cannot change is belief/acts of worship. For example, there is 5 daily prayers not 4 because we have less time of the day that before and so on.

Quran 71 - 15:16

See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens in tiers? (15)
And has made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp (16)

Here is quite a logical explaination that i found from someone..

 "Heavens" in Quran means stars. The seven heavens, which Qur'an talks about are, to my understanding, parallel universes (as Qur'an says one over the other) But only our Universe has stars in it and these stars are supporting other Universes. According to String theory, only gravitational particles leave one dimension and goes to the other. Remember, if Quran says that there are seven heavens, then it should be taken literally, not some pseudo-explanation. Verse 71:16 is saying that moon shines and sun burns, which is 100% scietifically correct. 

 If this is not good enough, i'll do more research if need be.

30. What do Muslim women get in Paradise? - IG [Note: Some Muslims I have interviewed about this say that Muslim women will get the same thing men get or equal value.  Oh really? So Muslim women will get 72 virgin men? lol. If Muslim men get 72 virgins, where are all these virgin women coming from? What of their freewill? Is Allah creating these women to be slaves to the men in Paradise?]

Tough one but i'll do my best. Whenever things are mentioned in the Quran/Sunnah, sometimes a gender is associated with it. For example, the height of honour of a mother over a father. Now this quote above is specific for Muslim Men martyrs. The beautiful thing about the afterlife is that you will get what you deserve. You reap what you sow. So when you get to Heaven, you will happy with what you have. There is no competition. It is between you and God. You do what you can and you will pay/get rewarded for what you done. Paradies is supposed to be eternal/endless and you will have everything you want. You won't be looking at others to see what you got. No jealousy or anything.

33. A true Muslim man is not supposed to do anything that the prophet Muhammad didn't do. If one remembers there was a big debate over whether or not Muslims should eat Mangos. If this is true, why in the Hell were these Islamic Fundamentalists flying airplanes? - IG

I think the answer Question 8 satisfies this. Muslims eating mangos...that's funny...

Samir


Lhill
Theist
Posts: 5
Joined: 2007-05-14
User is offlineOffline
As a Christian, I find

As a Christian, I find those questions juvenile. I wouldnt waste my time trying to answer them, not because they can't be answered, but because I realize what substitutes for answers for A, does not necessarily substitute for answers for B, and why would I waste valueable time answering questions for someone who does not really care for the answers.

Why would any Christian spend so much time, talking doctrine (or even defending it) or anything of the sort with folks who wouldnt accept it even if you gave them solid answers?

 

Discussing the nature of Atheism is far far more fruitful, in fact it is hilariously funny stuff.

 

The remarkeable thing is that they ask these types of questions with this answer in mind:

 

1) God is immoral - In which case any reasonable person would ask an Atheist... what do you mean by Immoral? Is that a mouse in your pocket ( or under your hat) talking? You may have a basis for right and wrong but it is merely germane to you, it has no part and shouldnt have apart from force or my own acquiesence any affect on how I see the world... 

 

2) That Christianity ( I dont pretend to defend all religions) is irrational - In which case any reasonable person would ask an Atheist.... Irrationality?!?! Why should the world or any system of belief make sense especially if it militates against my own views of what should or shouldnt make sense?

*** Note to Christian***

  The Atheist, in getting you to answer this question, if his view is really true (thats laughable) is merely trying to assert his view of the world over yours( the reality is if his view is true you are standing on even ground). If his view is really true, then you can believe anything you want to, you can even believe in a man in the moon, the only criteria is that it makes you happy and provides self fulfillment.. If you were to accept his view, that would give him charge over you... which again would be against your own self interests.

3. That a system of belief should cohere.... Ask the Atheist why it should cohere? He will huff and puff and end up in petty name calling, but he or she ought to drop words like should and ought from their vocabularies especially when talking about what someone ought to do or believe and why a system should cohere. That is unless you really value truth and if you do value truth, then admit that your views are no better (because better implies some moral law).

They are merely trying to steal from you... get this... here is the laughable part, because they have accepted your own (meaning the Christians view) that life and a system of belief ought to cohere (thats a smuggled in view)

 A given atheist may himself or herself may believe that a system of belief should cohere, but ask them to explain to you why? At best the answer can be, because they prefer it. Apart from some transcendent being who can force us to obey, or to believe in coherence, there is no real reason if their view is true why any system or belief should cohere.

 And the derision they spew is merely done to give them a dog in the hunt... because the reality is they dont have a basis for calling anything good or bad, better or worse... they only have a preference.

When they use these terms you ought to look at them and ask... what do you mean by that?

Atheism ultimately leads to an insane worldview and is indeed unlivable.

 Learn to ask questions of the questions the questioner asks. Look at the nature of the questions and ask what are they really saying, you do that and then you'll defeat every question they could ever ask, you would rob them and throw them off their own moral high horses.

You will laugh at the hilarity of it all... and it is hilarious...


mag
Posts: 2
Joined: 2007-05-27
User is offlineOffline
 I hope there is sex in

 I hope there is sex in heaven?


Apotheon
Theist
Apotheon's picture
Posts: 209
Joined: 2007-06-29
User is offlineOffline
 Sapien, in response to

 Sapien, in response to your challenge, Paul said flesh and BLOOD cannot enter the Kingdom of God. You left the word "blood" out of the quotation. Jesus didn't have blood because he shed it on the cross. The statement is a spiritual truth, meaning that man in his natural state of carnality and sin cannot enter the Kingdom of God. I plan to address the rest of your errors later.

The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator -- Louis Pasteur


Apotheon
Theist
Apotheon's picture
Posts: 209
Joined: 2007-06-29
User is offlineOffline
 Ok, I'm not a theologian

 Ok, I'm not a theologian or Biblical scholar, but I don't think I need to be in order to demonstrate the absurdity of the questions below. I'll go as far as I can untill I get bored:

Sapient wrote:
List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers. 1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

Many of the Jews did. Acts reports 500 eye witnesses of his resurrection and they were believers. The priests were the ones with the problem because they had in mind a valiant King who would overthrow the Romans, but they forgot about the OT passages speaking of Messiah as a suffering servant. Paul states that "blindness in part has happened to Israel." (Romans).

Sapient wrote:
    2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"

That no one has found them, does not prove they didn't exist (argument from silence). Sometimes it takes centuries for archaeologists to find things that were previously disputed to exist. Its also possible that the swords were assumed in heaven with the Cherubim. The latter are angels. They wouldn't be hanging around earth. 

Sapient wrote:
 3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy 4.

The Fathers of the Church say that Paradise (Eden) actually extended above the ground near Iraq. That the first reports point to Africa, cannot logically be concluded that Africa was the place of origin. Adam and Eve had many descendents who migrated all over the place. Genesis even talks about this. 

Sapient wrote:
When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

When a person is in heaven, they are so absorbed in the mind, bliss and glory of God, that they have transcended the things of this earth. The last thing on their minds will be people of earth. The "love" you refer to them having for people, is an illusion compared to the lofe they have for God and God for them.

 

Sapient wrote:
5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]

The answer is very simple. God speaks in what is called anthropomorphic language (language in human description). If God did not relate to us in this way, we would not be able to relate to Him.  

Sapient wrote:

6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

God does not create Hell. Men create it by abusing the greatest gift they could receive, free will. They use their will against God. God knew there would be consequences to men having free will, but much more goodness comes from free will if we use it to acquire God. Hell is man's choice. Not Gods.

Sapient wrote:
7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL 1.)

Actually, existance in hell is better then no existance at all. And God allows them to be born to have the choice to chose Him. Yes, He knew they wouldn't chose Him, but that's their fault not His. You have to understand that God's mercy, knowledge and wisdom far trascend anything you can imagine. He knows alot more than you and I. He knows exactly what He is doing.

Sapient wrote:
God's love is superlative. 2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self. 3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture. 4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

God doesn't torture anyone. Man tortures himself! Hell is nothing but God granting the sinner and/or atheist what they wanted: a world without God. Hell is absence of God. That's what atheists want so God is merciful by granting them their wish.

Sapient wrote:
 8. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca. Each prayer includes a variety of ritualism and posturing. If a muslim astronaut were to land on Mars. Prayer to Mecca would be ritualistically impossible due to the rotation of Earth and Mars. Are Muslims stuck here in Earth? IG [Note: Since this was first posted, a Muslim astronaut was faced with this very dilemma. The authoritative clergy informed him to pray as he normally would. I see this no where in the Koran. You see? Religions must change, or die out. It's interesting to note that, in the Koran, the moon is believed to be in the lowest Heaven, the level for those that barely made it to Heaven. Surah 71:15-16. One problem, no man can supposedly get to Heaven until they die. Yet, we've been to the moon. Our satellites beyond that.]

I can't answer for Islam, but my Church improvises when necessary. We have a thing called "economia" where if a person is sick and cannot observe a fast, the Church blesses them not to fast. God is not all about rules and regulations. The ritualistic actions we do only serve as mechanisms and/or vehicles to help us aquire the right religious frame of mind and to aspire toward God.

Sapient wrote:
 9. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

That question is a generalization in that it assumes that none of those things have ever occured in history. But there is no way to prove they haven't, so they cannot falsify the possibility. Second, we see in the NT that Jesus only healed people who had faith. Todays society does not have the kind of faith necessary for those kinds of miracles (with a few exceptions). And we are too sinful of a society to be blessed with that measure of grace. But we see those kinds of miracles occuring in the lives of the saints. For example, Saint John of Damascus had his arm cut off. He prayed all night before an icon of the Virgin Mary to heal him. He awoke the next morning fully restored. There are many examples in Church history, and even some in modern times of things like this happening. We have spontaneous cures from Cancer and other diseases.  Just because the atheist doesn't get around and see what's going on in the world, does not prove his argument.

Sapient wrote:
10. Why does God entrust the spreading of 'His' word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself? - IG [Note: Surely God would have known that not everyone would be convinced by the reality[sic] of his Bible. If God loves us so much, we are all going to Heaven. If God knew that I would be an atheist, and he doesn't like atheists, he shouldn't have allowed me to come into existence. But he did. Therefore, I must be serving the will of God, for I exist. Smiling]

God could not do it Himself because that would negate faith. Hebrews tells us that without faith we cannot please Him. All who love the truth will hear His voice, whatever the mechanism of spreading the Gospel be. If God would have had a prophet or an angel die on the cross for us, you then would argue that if God loved us so much why wouldn't He die for us Himself? These are silly questions. God does not want us to be forced into heaven because that would violate free will. He wants us to chose and desire Him. If we do this, we will be rewarded greately and more then the angels.

Sapient wrote:
 11. In II Kings 2-23/24 we read about God sending 2 she-bears to attack children for calling the prophet Elisa bald, which he was, the bears killed 42 of the children. Was this a good thing to do? -- Brandon and IG[Note: I have heard some argue that the boys were a gang. So?! I didn't read anywhere in that passage where they laid a finger on the guy . Also, what kind of bears are these that can kill 42 kids? Super Bears? Surely the kids had to be running away.] 

God knows what is good and just. If He does not exist, then what you think is goodness is only a convention of your own mind. Sometimes God will take people out early in their life in order to prevent them from engaging in worse sins that would be even more damming. 

 

Sapient wrote:
12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

Nonsense, the argument assumes the existance of Satan. If Satan exists than so does God. Since God exists, He is fully capable of protecting and preserving His Word from the claws of Satan. Jesus promissed that He would be with the Church untill the end of time. He's not going to let the devil destroy His Word or His Church. The books received were handed down through tradition. They were safely guarded not only by man, but by God Himself. 

Ok, I'm bored. The questions are so silly, reminiscient of something a Sunday School child would ask.

The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator -- Louis Pasteur


Tilberian
Moderator
Tilberian's picture
Posts: 1118
Joined: 2006-11-27
User is offlineOffline
Apotheon wrote: Sapient

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"

That no one has found them, does not prove they didn't exist (argument from silence). Sometimes it takes centuries for archaeologists to find things that were previously disputed to exist. Its also possible that the swords were assumed in heaven with the Cherubim. The latter are angels. They wouldn't be hanging around earth.

So, the fact that no one has found Santa Claus doesn't mean he doesn't exist?

Archeologists look for things that we know exist - like arrowheads and fossils. We can't place Cherubim on the same plane of belief because there is no evidence that such a being could exist knowing what we know about how the world works. The story is clearly a work of fantasy. 

Apotheon wrote:

The Fathers of the Church say that Paradise (Eden) actually extended above the ground near Iraq. That the first reports point to Africa, cannot logically be concluded that Africa was the place of origin. Adam and Eve had many descendents who migrated all over the place. Genesis even talks about this.

You clearly don't understand. We have evidence from mitochondrial DNA that shows, conclusively, that the earliest humans (and all their descendants for many tens of thousands of years) came from Africa, not Iraq. There was not even one human bearing children in Iraq for millennia after the human species originated. 

Apotheon wrote:

When a person is in heaven, they are so absorbed in the mind, bliss and glory of God, that they have transcended the things of this earth. The last thing on their minds will be people of earth. The "love" you refer to them having for people, is an illusion compared to the lofe they have for God and God for them.

So God erases their memory and understanding of their personal history in favor of a one-dimensional basking in his glory. In other words, they are destroyed as personal beings.

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]

The answer is very simple. God speaks in what is called anthropomorphic language (language in human description). If God did not relate to us in this way, we would not be able to relate to Him.

Wonderful. So we can safely ignore God's commands knowing that he doesn't really want us to follow them.

Apotheon wrote:

 

Sapient wrote:

6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

God does not create Hell. Men create it by abusing the greatest gift they could receive, free will. They use their will against God. God knew there would be consequences to men having free will, but much more goodness comes from free will if we use it to acquire God. Hell is man's choice. Not Gods.

Your post contradicts itself. You say that God created men and their free will knowing that it would lead to hell. Then you say that hell was not God's choice. Yes it was! He created everything the way it is, hell and all! Why didn't he make the universe such that hell was unnecessary?

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL 1.)

Actually, existance in hell is better then no existance at all. And God allows them to be born to have the choice to chose Him. Yes, He knew they wouldn't chose Him, but that's their fault not His. You have to understand that God's mercy, knowledge and wisdom far trascend anything you can imagine. He knows alot more than you and I. He knows exactly what He is doing.

What he is doing is sending people to hell on purpose. If you want to invoke the Mystery of God's Purpose, I'll invoke it right back at you and reject any claim you make to having any understanding of God or any characteristic of him.

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
God's love is superlative. 2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self. 3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture. 4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

God doesn't torture anyone. Man tortures himself! Hell is nothing but God granting the sinner and/or atheist what they wanted: a world without God. Hell is absence of God. That's what atheists want so God is merciful by granting them their wish.

You are playing word games. Hell is defined as a place where sinners are tortured. Redefining it as simply the absence of God abuses the meaning of the word as it is understood everywhere. I live entirely without God, and I am not in any kind of hell. In fact I am quite happy.

And again you ignore the fact that God could have created the universe such that rejecting him would not result in hell. 

Apotheon wrote:

I can't answer for Islam, but my Church improvises when necessary. We have a thing called "economia" where if a person is sick and cannot observe a fast, the Church blesses them not to fast. God is not all about rules and regulations. The ritualistic actions we do only serve as mechanisms and/or vehicles to help us aquire the right religious frame of mind and to aspire toward God.

But I thought the rules came from God, or at least from people with superlative understanding of God! How can you possibly justify modifying them under any circumstances?

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
9. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

That question is a generalization in that it assumes that none of those things have ever occured in history. But there is no way to prove they haven't, so they cannot falsify the possibility.

We also can't disprove that monkeys didn't fly out of my ass two seconds ago. Next.

Apotheon wrote:

Second, we see in the NT that Jesus only healed people who had faith. Todays society does not have the kind of faith necessary for those kinds of miracles (with a few exceptions). And we are too sinful of a society to be blessed with that measure of grace. But we see those kinds of miracles occuring in the lives of the saints. For example, Saint John of Damascus had his arm cut off. He prayed all night before an icon of the Virgin Mary to heal him. He awoke the next morning fully restored. There are many examples in Church history, and even some in modern times of things like this happening. We have spontaneous cures from Cancer and other diseases. Just because the atheist doesn't get around and see what's going on in the world, does not prove his argument.

If a Thor worshipper made the same claims, on the same evidence, as you just did you would totally reject the possibility of his claim being true. You know damn well that there is no evidence worthy of the name supporting any claims of miracles happening anywhere, ever.

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
10. Why does God entrust the spreading of 'His' word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself? - IG [Note: Surely God would have known that not everyone would be convinced by the reality[sic] of his Bible. If God loves us so much, we are all going to Heaven. If God knew that I would be an atheist, and he doesn't like atheists, he shouldn't have allowed me to come into existence. But he did. Therefore, I must be serving the will of God, for I exist. Smiling]

God could not do it Himself because that would negate faith. Hebrews tells us that without faith we cannot please Him. All who love the truth will hear His voice, whatever the mechanism of spreading the Gospel be. If God would have had a prophet or an angel die on the cross for us, you then would argue that if God loved us so much why wouldn't He die for us Himself? These are silly questions. God does not want us to be forced into heaven because that would violate free will. He wants us to chose and desire Him. If we do this, we will be rewarded greately and more then the angels.

So on the list of God's priorities, it is more important that we have faith than that we believe at all. Our salvation is less important than our ability to suspend the critical and rational faculties that he gave us. 

Further, if we do exercise free will and elect to not believe in him, we burn for eternity. In what alternate universe is this really a free choice? Should the hostages who read statements from their captors be condemned for not exercising their free will to refuse and have their heads blown off?

Lastly, let's not forget (again) that God set this entire system of rules up himself. If God is omnipotent, he could have done it some other way.

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
11. In II Kings 2-23/24 we read about God sending 2 she-bears to attack children for calling the prophet Elisa bald, which he was, the bears killed 42 of the children. Was this a good thing to do? -- Brandon and IG[Note: I have heard some argue that the boys were a gang. So?! I didn't read anywhere in that passage where they laid a finger on the guy . Also, what kind of bears are these that can kill 42 kids? Super Bears? Surely the kids had to be running away.]

God knows what is good and just. If He does not exist, then what you think is goodness is only a convention of your own mind. Sometimes God will take people out early in their life in order to prevent them from engaging in worse sins that would be even more damming.

Your moral cowardice makes me want to puke. Rather than take the slightest stand, rather than accept the slightest responsibility for a moral position, you would turn to your imaginary sky daddy and say "whatever he says goes." Your miindset is dangerous and disgusting. Presumably, if you could be convinced that God wanted you to walk to down the street shooting people, you would do it in a second. Your response to this question is a perfect illustration of why theism is in fact a mental disease and should be discouraged in society.

Apotheon wrote:

Sapient wrote:
12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

Nonsense, the argument assumes the existance of Satan. If Satan exists than so does God. Since God exists, He is fully capable of protecting and preserving His Word from the claws of Satan. Jesus promissed that He would be with the Church untill the end of time. He's not going to let the devil destroy His Word or His Church. The books received were handed down through tradition. They were safely guarded not only by man, but by God Himself.

Wrong. The hypothetical existence of Satan does not require the existence of God. Satan could be the only meg-powerful being there is and has invented the whole God myth in order to manipulate people. Neither you, nor any other theist, can know that this is not the case.

Apotheon wrote:

Ok, I'm bored. The questions are so silly, reminiscient of something a Sunday School child would ask.

And neither you nor any other theist who has ever been on these boards can answer them properly. You are absolutely correct, religion is so ridiculous that even a child can see right through it. 

Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
Oh, the carnage! Should we

Oh, the carnage!

Should we carry Apotheon out on a stretcher or just hose what's left of him out of the arena?

Nice work, Tilberian. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


rch10007
Theist
rch10007's picture
Posts: 22
Joined: 2007-08-01
User is offlineOffline
To answer any of your

To answer any of your questions would assume one is to take the Bible literally.  Unfortunately, most of the time this is the case which has led to religious fanatics and in turn, to maintain balance, a strict denial of said religion.

 I don't blame people for turning their back on religion.  As an institution, it has done a poor job of teaching the wonderful messages of patience, tolerance and peace to it's members.  However, the messages are still there for those who choose to search for them.

Regardless of your questions, no answer can be 100% accurate.  As a species, if we survive to see our little dwarf star collapse, it will have done no good to argue about who's right or wrong...

Heaven and Hell are the life we choose to live.  Symbolically, good and bad, relatively speaking. 

Personally, I don't think there's intelligent life on other planets. Why should other planets be any different from this one? -- Bob Monkhouse


Judas01
Judas01's picture
Posts: 1
Joined: 2007-08-29
User is offlineOffline
Why would God choose a

Why would God choose a single man and a single geographical location to spread his word?


mryero
Posts: 2
Joined: 2007-09-02
User is offlineOffline
The answers

Hi I'm new here so sory if I poste it wrong:D

First lets woth this video for explanations :

 

You see the "all powerful god BS" is man made you don't get it from the bible. If you make god limited like zuse it explain every thing ! And according to the bible Every one gets to Haven from Atheist to Christien and mass murder if they are smart enough see the video.

BTW I'm a Atheis have a nice day.

{fixed}

 

 

Thanks for the edit Laughing out loud well maybe I should mention that I’m not from a English speaking country so sorry for grammar errors.

 

Can I add questions to the list ?

 

First I would like to give one on the tope I call it the zero question because it’s a faith killer

 

0)      What will convince you that there is no god ? If you don’t have a answer or give something in the notion “I will not abandon my god” thanks you just stated that you are a god robot and don’t have free will.  Don’t play the free will card if you didn’t answer this one.

 

Now lets add more questions to the end of the list

 

90)    If we develop robots , intelligent computer , and all the self aware robots will they have a sole ? If no then Howe can you have a sole ? According to biology we are a machine composed of trillions of cells and a lot of neurons who function like a giant computer and allows us to do the same thinks as the robots ? If you give a answer “They never do this its impossible” will the invention of artificial intelligence convince you that god don’t exists ? OK now google Ling bots and have a chat with them impressive aren’t they !   Remember people didn’t believe you can fly because god lives between the clouds and we got to the space the first men in space sad “I can’t see god up here”.

 

 

91)    Uploading :  according to science I’m only a bunch of data and I can copy myself in a clone body or a robot one so if there is more of ME with one of ME will have a sole ? Howe will this look like after death ? Will there be more judgments for the all copies of ME ? Will we fuse together in a multi head person  if yes then what happened if we don’t die not at the same time or if one of ME will be a good Christian and the rest evil hitlers howe can this be jugged? Ok you can say that SF but what is with multiple personality disorder 2 (or more) persons in one body. Lets say we have one body 4 persons (you can’t doge this with devil possession ) 2 of them are Christians and the rest is evil atheists howe will it look after the death of the body ? Do all 4 go to haven or to hell? Will the sole be split if yes then is the split sole smaller from normal soles after this ore something ?

 

92)    If god is all powerful then while cant he overwrite free will ? Well if there is free will god in NOT all powerful because he lacks the ability to overwrite free will. So :

 

A)    Stop using free will (free will don’t exists)

B)     Say  “almost all powerful god “(limited by free will)

And before you start with you allegories consider this a killer is supposed to kill you but he has some problems with seeing you blood (fear of blood not fear of killing ) so he doesn’t kill you immediately and you have time to overpower him so the killer was limited by his  inability to splashy blood and this whose his wakens end of story.

To make is simpler :

If god can’t  act agents free will god is not all powerful.

If god is all powerful he can act agents free will.