Questions about God... theists answer these!

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Questions about God... theists answer these!

List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers.

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy

4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]
6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG
ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL
1.) God's love is superlative.
2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self.
3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture.
4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

8. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca. Each prayer includes a variety of ritualism and posturing. If a muslim astronaut were to land on Mars. Prayer to Mecca would be ritualistically impossible due to the rotation of Earth and Mars. Are Muslims stuck here in Earth? IG [Note: Since this was first posted, a Muslim astronaut was faced with this very dilemma. The authoritative clergy informed him to pray as he normally would. I see this no where in the Koran. You see? Religions must change, or die out. It's interesting to note that, in the Koran, the moon is believed to be in the lowest Heaven, the level for those that barely made it to Heaven. Surah 71:15-16. One problem, no man can supposedly get to Heaven until they die. Yet, we've been to the moon. Our satellites beyond that.]

9. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

10. Why does God entrust the spreading of 'His' word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself? - IG [Note: Surely God would have known that not everyone would be convinced by the reality[sic] of his Bible. If God loves us so much, we are all going to Heaven. If God knew that I would be an atheist, and he doesn't like atheists, he shouldn't have allowed me to come into existence. But he did. Therefore, I must be serving the will of God, for I exist. Smiling]

11. In II Kings 2-23/24 we read about God sending 2 she-bears to attack children for calling the prophet Elisa bald, which he was, the bears killed 42 of the children. Was this a good thing to do? -- Brandon and IG[Note: I have heard some argue that the boys were a gang. So?! I didn't read anywhere in that passage where they laid a finger on the guy . Also, what kind of bears are these that can kill 42 kids? Super Bears? Surely the kids had to be running away.]

12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

13. Why did God allow Lot and his daughters to escape from Sodom and Gomorra when he destroyed it only to later have Lot and his daughters engage in incestuous fornication. (Genesis 19:30-36) - Disillusioned [Note: To have intercourse with daddy dearest of course.]

14. Genesis 1:28-29 shows that man and all the animals were first created herbivorous. Most young-earth Christians (ones that believes the earth is less than 10,000 years old) say that the fall of man resulted in carnivorous animals ( hence death of animals). So, why did God punish the animal kingdom, making animals kill and devour each other because of man's mistake? Or, if you're an old-earth Christian (one that accepts that animals existed on earth for billions of years before man came on the scene) then how come fossils show carnivorous animals existed before man? - http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/contact.htm.

15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so, again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable action/thoughts. - The Infidel Guy [Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.] ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY
1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe.
2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally prior to Y.
3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being.
4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe.
[Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future. But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot logically exist. Smiling]

16. I have often heard that faith is all that is neccessary to believe in God and accept the Bible as true. If this is true aren't all supernatural beliefs true since they also require "faith"? - IG ON FAITH
1.) A prerequisite to believe in a Faith is faith.
2.) Having faith is all that is required to accept a Faith (belief) as true.
3.) All Faiths are true.
[Note: Of course all Faiths aren`t true, but this is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from a person that states that, "Faith" is how one knows God.]

17. Why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve after the Fall and start from scratch? Actually, if God is all-knowing wouldn't he know that man would need to be killed eventually anyway, (the biblical flood)? Why create Adam and Eve at all? - and ON THE GARDEN OF EDEN
1.) God is omniscient (all-knowing).
2.) God knew that before he created man that they would eat of the tree of knowledge.
3.) God placed the tree of knowledge in the Garden anyway.
4.) God wanted sin to enter the world.
[Note: If God didn`t want sin to enter the world, why create Adam and Eve at all? He knew what would happen. Why place the forbidden trees in the Garden in the first place?]

18. If a spirit is non-physical but the human body is physical, how does a spirit stay in our bodies? - IG ON SPIRITS
1.) Spirits are not physical entities.
2.) Brains are physical entities.
3.) Past experiences are stored in our physical brains, we call that, Memory..
4.) Injury can damage portions of the physical brain that store memory and can alter or erase memories completely.
5.) If human spirits exist... after death, spirits can have no memory.
[Note: Some will say the spirit stores physical memories as well, but if true, the spirit would have to be physical at least to a degree. How could a non-physical spirit store, physical memories?]

19. Does God know his own future decisions? If God is all-knowing he actually shouldn't have any decisions to make at all. Nor can he choose anything over something else. For that would mean that he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. In fact, he can't even think if this is the case. Since he can't DO anything, he might as well not exist. - IG ON GOD'S IMMUTABILITY - Unchangingness
1. If God exists, then he is immutable.
2. If God exists, then he is the creator of the universe.
3. An immutable being cannot at one time have an intention and then at a later time not have that intention.
4. For any being to create anything, prior to the creation he must have had the intention to create it, but at a later time, after the creation, no longer have the intention to create it.
5. Thus, it is impossible for an immutable being to have created anything (from 3 and 4).
6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist (from 1, 2, and 5) - Theodore M. Drange

20. If God is all-knowing, how could he be disappointed in His creation? -- [Note: Indeed, wouldn't God know that before the creation of our Universe what creatures would disappoint him? That being the case why create those creatures at all? Also, in knowing absolutely the behavior of humans before creation, God cannot be disappointed either... for this world is exactly as he has planned it to be. If it's not, why create us at all?]

21. God struck down the Tower of Babel angry at the intent of the people that built them, if this is the case, many of the great pyramids ( which are bigger than any ziggurat) around the world should be rubble also, yet many still stand today. Were not the Egyptians and many other ancient pyramid builders reaching toward God /The Heavens? - IG [Note: In actuality, many of the Pharaoh's believed that, via their pyramids, they would become God's themselves.]

22. In the watchmaker analogy, a watch is used to show us intelligent design and compares that to the Universe as evidence of design. We know watches are designed because we have past experience with watches, as well as with other man made objects. My question is: What Universe is the Intelligent Design proponent using to compare this Universe with to draw such an analogy? What God did he see create a Universe? - IG

23. Why did God flood the earth to remove evil? It didn't work! Evil came right back, God should have known that would happen! So why did He bother? - PhineasBg [Note: A good example of how quickly sin returned, was Noah getting drunk just after they discovered land.]

24. If the garden of Eden was a perfect paradise as xians claim, then why did Eve even want to eat the fruit? Wouldn't a perfect place provide everything a person would want or desire and thus she would want nothing? - keyser soze [Note: Why were the trees there in the first place? Of course they love to throw the serpent into the equation. But ummm..who let the serpent into the Garden?... and why would God create such a creature knowing he would cause man's fall? Hmm.. God must have wanted the fall to happen.]

25. Why would an all-powerful god become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself so that his creation might escape the wrath of himself. Couldn't god, in his infinite wisdom, come up with something a little more efficient? - ON THE BODY OF CHRIST
1.) God?s flesh was known as Jesus.
2.) Flesh cannot enter into Heaven (according to Paul)
3.) God is no longer Jesus.
4.) Jesus doesn?t exist.

(Note: Many at this point will state that the spirit lives on so therefore Jesus lives. This really depends on what you believe about Jesus. Is Jesus the son of God or God in flesh? If Jesus is merely the son there is no problem.However, if Jesus ?is? God himself, we do. You see, Jesus is called Jesus because of the attribute of Flesh. If Jesus = God (who is spirit) then the entity known as Jesus ceases to exist. The flesh/body of Jesus, no longer exists and the spirit of God is still the unchanging spirit of God. No Jesus at that point. The Flesh, called Jesus, is dead.)

26. After 9/11 a lot of people have been tossing around " god bless america". Why do they keep saying this? From the looks of it god hasn't blessed anything. If god had blessed america, the 9/11 event would've never happened. Theists seem to give the answer of "everything is part of gods big plan". If everything is part of gods big plan, why are we after Bin Laden? Wasn't he and other terrorists just carrying out gods desired plan? So it seems that Bin Laden/ terrorism isnt our enemy, but god . - [Note: Unfortunately many religious nuts believe they are fulfilling their God's plan by going to war.]

27. Christians say that God is NOT the author of confusion. Can you say, Tower of Babel? - The Screaming Monkeys

28. If Noah's flood supposedly covered the earth for a year, regardless of whether or not all the animals could fit on the ark, what the heck happened to all the plants? Can you imagine a cactus surviving under 4 miles of water for a year? I can't either! - Kyle Giblet [Note: With God all things are possible. Oh wait, except in Judges 1:19.]

29. The highest rainfall ever recorded in a 24 hour period was 47inches in the Reunion Islands in 1947 (during a severe tropical storm). To cover the whole earth to a depth of 5.6 miles, and cover the mountain tops (i.e. Mount Everest), it would need to rain at a rate of 372 (three hundred and seventy two) inches per hour, over the entire surface of the earth. Can rain fall at such an astronomical rate? Where did all the water come from?? Where did it all go to??? And would not the dynamics of the earth be so out of balance (tides etc.) that the earth would become so unstable that it would wobble off into outer space???? -

30. What do Muslim women get in Paradise? - IG [Note: Some Muslims I have interviewed about this say that Muslim women will get the same thing men get or equal value. Smiling Oh really? So Muslim women will get 72 virgin men? lol. If Muslim men get 72 virgins, where are all these virgin women coming from? What of their freewill? Is Allah creating these women to be slaves to the men in Paradise?]

31. In the "Last Days" Jesus is supposed to appear in the clouds. How are the Christians on the opposite end of the world going to see him? Are there going to be millions of Jesus'? What about people that work underground? What about people in deep space? -

32. The Bible says that God is a jealous God . How is this an example of a moral absolute of which man is supposed to follow? - IG ON GOD`S JEALOUSY
1.) "God is love." 1 John 4:8.
2.) "Love is not jealous." 1 Cor 13:4
3.) "I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God." Exodus 20:5.
4.) The Christian god cannot logically exist.
(NOte: Basically love is NOT jealous, yet god is jealous, then God can`t be love. But if god IS love he cannot be jealous. Be he is.)

33. A true Muslim man is not supposed to do anything that the prophet Muhammad didn't do. If one remembers there was a big debate over whether or not Muslims should eat Mangos. If this is true, why in the Hell were these Islamic Fundamentalists flying airplanes? - IG

34. If the earth was covered by a complete global flood, every living creature killed except those surviving on the ark, why are there many completely unique animal species in Australia that are found no where else indigenously on the earth? -

35. If god is omniscient and " god is love," why would he allow a child to be conceived, knowing that that child would one day reject him and spend eternity burning in a lake of fire?- TiredTurkeyProd

36. Revelations is supposed to take place on Earth. What if we colonize the moon or Mars or inhabit a self-sustaining space station? Do we escape "judgement"? -- Ray Sommers [Note: No we don't Ray... and of course we all know that if there is any intelligent life out there besides us, they are all going to Hell too. Eye-wink]

37. Isaiah 40:28 says, "...the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is he weary?" If this is true, why did God rest on the seventh day?- IG

38. Everytime I go to a funeral the preacher and guests always say that " God " has called that person to Heaven or they say, " God said it was time to come home", or some such variation. If God is calling these people "home", why are we putting the murderers of these victims in prison? How can we punish a man or woman for doing God's will? - IG

39. Does God have a gender? In most churches, God is predominately referred to as a "he"? - IG [Note: The Bible says God is male, but what does this mean? Does God have a penis? Does he have hormones that dictate his gender? Smiling]

40. Why can't we wait until we get to Heaven to worship God ? Why would it be too late? - IG

41. What is the purpose of prayer? What can a finite being on Earth possibly tell an omnipotent, omniscient deity that he doesn't know already? - IG ON PRAYER
1.) Humans can?t change God?s mind for he has a divine plan and is unchangeable.
2.) Prayer can't change God's mind.
3.) Prayer doesn't change anything.
(Prayer may make you feel better emotionally, but it doesn`t change God`s mind.)

42. Some say Jesus was the all-knowing God. Jesus would have known then that when he died he'd be in heaven in less than 3 days to rule. If Jesus is alive and ruling today, what did he sacrifice? -- Cyndy Hammond

43. God knows that men are sinners, untrustworthy and evil, why does God leave it up to fallible man (clergy..etc) to teach others about his word? Why would he put our eternal souls at risk if he loves us so much? - The Infidel Guy and Danno778

44. Did Adam have nipples? If so, how did he acquire them? In fact, why would God give "later man" nipples at all? They serve no purpose other than lactation. Some say pleasure. Where is that in Genesis exactly? All mammals have nipples as well, are theirs pleasureful for them too? Many men don't find their nipples pleasurable at all. - IG

45. How did Adam and Eve know it was wrong to disobey God if they hadn't eaten of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) yet? You can't blame them if they didn't know. - IG

46. If God has such a tremendous problem with uncircumcised penises, why did he make man with foreskin in the first place? - IG [Note: Some say, "So God can recognize his chosen people." Recognize? Is God so stupid that he has to physically look at men's penises? If not God, do other men need to? lol.]

47. Did Noah have fish onboard? Salt or Fresh? Since fresh water fish would die in salt, and salt water fish would die in fresh, only one type of fish would survive. Yet....?" - Frank Monaco

48. Why does the omnipotent, omnipresent God need help from man or angels to spread his word or do acts? - IG [Note: Some say God doesn't need help. But apparently he does.] - IG

49. How did Jesus ascend to Heaven in the Flesh when Paul says that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven? (1 Cor.15:50) - IG [Note: Some say, well Paul said that and not Jesus. Yet they quote Paul when it suits there purposes.]

50. If God wants us to live right and choose "the good," why did he create evil? (Isaiah 45:6,7) Not to mention he already knows which people are not going to choose "the good" so why create those people in the first place? It seems that many people are born to go to Hell. - IG ON HELL
1.) God is all-knowing.
2.) Before I was born God knew I wouldn?t believe in him.
3.) I was born to go to Hell.
(Sure you may say I have a choice, but I think I`ve proven already that I really don`t. I`m simply fulfilling the will of God by being an atheist aren`t I? If I`m not, I shouldn`t exist: For God would have known that before I was created that I wouldn`t believe in him.)

51. I hear Christians all the time speaking of a spiritual war between Heaven and Hell, if this is true does God have limitations of power? Man only conducts wars because of our limitations of power and foresight. God has both all-power and all-knowledge, no reason for war of any kind. - IG

52. The Bible is full of phrases beginning with, "and the lord saw". Didn't he know before hand? - IG

53. How can a psychologist condone belief in something not proven to exist, when people are put into mental institutions on a daily basis for the same thing? i.e. aliens, fairies, imaginary people (Multiple Personality Disorders..)? - Dan Denton [Note: I'm sure that some of the pious believe that they are improperly placed there as well Dan. Smiling]

54. If Christians say they know God exists and that he will work miracles, what do they need faith for? Faith is not knowing. - IG

55. Brain, or shall I say, body transplants, will eventually be possible, where would the soul be then? Where is the soul? - IG

56. If God really wants us to know him, why doesn't he place the knowledge of him in our minds at birth? The same way many theists believe that God implants our sense of right and wrong in us a right birth. - IG

57. If God was Jesus' father (not Joseph), then why is Jesus' family tree traced through Joseph? -- Cyndy Hammond

58. What image of God was man made from? Couldn't have been a moral one or physical one. - IG [Note: One would suspect that an image of God would be perfect and cannot sin. Oops.]

59. Why can't God appear before everyone at the same time? Everyone in the world would then "know" he exists and not have solely "believe". And please, don't say he already tried that. Surely a God knows exactly what to do to convince a measly human of his existence. - IG

60. According to the New Testament Matthew 5:17 says "Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete. I tell you this: so long as heaven and earth endure, not a letter, not a stroke, will disappear from the Law until all that must happen has Happened." So since Jesus has not returned the "Law" is still in effect, so why aren't we still burning witches, stoning adulterers and disobedient children, killing homosexuals, ostracizing people that work on the Sabbath (nurses, doctors etc.), flinging blood onto the horns of the alter, pulling off the heads of small birds, and don't forget human sacrifice to God (Leviticus 27 P.28 )? -- Sheila L. Chambers

61. If there is freewill in Heaven yet everyone has chosen good and is happy, isn't that proof that God could have made us with freewill, choosing good ( God ) and still being happy on Earth? - Dennis Hendrix [Note: In other words, evil didn't have to exist after all. Hey wait, even in Heaven apparently, evil can exist. At least for a short while. Satan became evil and was in heaven. Apparently he even had enough time to form an Army against God. Wow. Maybe Heaven won't be as peaceful as many believe.]

62. Why does God have a plan? Man is limited in power so we make plans because we are not all-knowing nor all-powerful. If God has a plan, isn't he reduced to a mere finite being? - IG

63. How could the all-merciful/loving God watch billions of his children burn over and over again for eternity? - IG [Note: Of course this is geared to those that believe in a fiery hell. I am well aware that not all Christians believe in a fiery Hell.]

64. Before reading and writing were invented (5000BC), on what basis did God use to judge the people who died before the Hebrew and Greek text (BIBLE) were written? -- [Note: They are all roasting in Hell. Smiling]

65. Many Christians tell me that I will "burn in hell". If I have a soul, how can a soul burn? Aren't souls non-physical entities? - IG [Note: Some Christians groups believe that you will be given new bodies after judgement. However, if true, what's the significance of a spirit in the first place?]

66. How can one hold to the barbaric belief that something has to DIE in order to appease a god for a bad deed? -- Nickolaus Wing [Note: Because an old book says so Nick.]

67. Why does SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) occur? Why would God allow a baby to live for such a short period of time? Why not just let them not be born in the first place? -- Terry Clark [Note: This actually happened to a friend of mine. Not even God himself could console her.]

68. If Jesus was nailed and died on Friday evening, and walked out of the tomb on Sunday morning, where's the 3rd NIGHT he predicted? Per Matthew 12:40: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -

69. Many Christians claim that hell is merely existence outside of God ?s presence (C.S. Lewis among others). If this is the case, then Jesus could not have descended into hell (being God Himself). As a result, are you sure your sins are forgiven? - Byron Bultsma

70. Ten to twenty percent of all women who discover they are pregnant suffer a miscarriage. Also, it is estimated that anywhere from 14 to 50 percent of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Seeing this is all part of God 's plan, does this make God the world's number one abortion provider? - Jim

71. What if, when you get to Heaven, you saw God causing pain and suffering out of anger or for the purpose of entertaining himself. What if he required people in heaven to praise and worship him non-stop even to the point of causing his worshipers discomfort, pain and boredom. What if, when he was bored, angry, or jealous, he would create natural disasters to make himself feel better. Would you still follow him? - Fernando [Note: Of course they would Fernando, many people followed Hitler out of fear as well.]

72. In Leviticus, the bible condemns homosexuality as an "abomination", giving some Christians a reason to hate, harass, torture and kill gays and even picket their funderals with " God hates fags" signs. In the same book of the bible the eating of shellfish is equally an "abomination". Are these Christians planning to go after the patrons of Red Lobster next? - [Note: hee-hee, that's all I can say. Jewish Law states that eating Fish without scales is an abomination and thus the Shark is one among the list. However, sharks do have scales, Placoid scales, one of the many reasons why a shark is called a Fish .]

73. Christians will tell you that if a baby dies it goes to heaven. Why then are they so against abortion? All the child is being deprived of is the opportunity to go to hell. Either that or god expects unborn fetuses to accept Jesus. -

74. If one could prove to you incontrovertibly that Jesus and God were all human fabrications would still believe? And why? - LOGICnREASON [Note: If you say yes. Then you are not concerned with the truth, you simply WANT to believe; and if you WANT to believe, indeed, there is nothing anyone can tell you..]

75. It is often said that God allows evil because one could not meaningfully appreciate good without experiencing its opposite. Why is it necessary to experience the opposite of something in order to appreciate it? Must I experience death in order to meaningfully appreciate life? -excidius

76. Bible literalists want you to believe that God's Word in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. If this is the case, why was Jesus fond of explaining things in parable and metaphor? Was Jesus literally discussing the biology of mustard seeds, or was the mustard seed parable meant to be interpreted figuratively as faith? -excidius

77. Liberal Christians say some parts of the Bible are literally true, but much else is to be interpreted figuratively as allegory. How do you know which is which? What distinguishing criteria are used? How can you be certain "God" is a literal and not a figurative concept? -excidius

78. Consciousness is the result of a physical brain, how could God being metaphysical be said to be conscious or sentient without having a brain? - Mindless

79. Considering how Leviticus is considered old law, and that Christians do not obey it anymore, why do they always use it to defend homosexuality being an "abomination"? -Bohorquez

80. If God is omnipotent and he has a plan ... then why did he not create the universe as it will be one second after the plan has succeeded? Who or what prevented him from doing that? - Timothy Campbell (http://www.tc123.com)

81. The large majority of people who have ever existed could not have learned of the Bible or Jesus Christ. And many people afterwards have found other religions or no religion at all to be more convincing, sometimes while being very virtuous. Do all these people really deserve eternal torment because of that? -- lpetrich

82. The above arguments also apply among different sects of Christianity, many of which state that most others are not True Christianity. -- lpetrich

83. Is it reasonable for the Creator and Ruler of such a vast Universe to be preoccupied with the sexuality of a species living on a tiny little planet? -- lpetrich

84. If the Christian god was all loving and all knowing why did he let religious figures such as Mohammed or Gautama Budda be born, knowing that they would mislead people from the 'true' faith and trick the majority of the world's population into burning forever in hell (in fact, if Islam didn't start, most of the middle east would probably be Christian). It would simple to use the Holy Spirit to guide them to Jesus and spread the 'true' faith. If the Holy Spirit exits, it certainly isn't doing it's job!

85. If one is obliged to follow all the teachings of the bible then why is engaging in homosexuality or adultery any worse than "suffering a witch to live", "muzzling the ox that treadeth the corn", "reaping the corners of thy field", "marring the corners of they beard", "plowing with an oxen and an ass", "hating thy brother in thy heart" or "eating frogs, shellfish and eels" ?

86. Exactly how did the alleged worldwide flood kill off all the world's sea creatures? How does one go about drowning a fish? -- Steever

87. Why did this alleged god create humans as an animal form of life that gets sick and dies and experiences pain and has a limited mind when 'it' could have created humans as a form of pure energy or of some indestructible material or whatever, and was totally ?sinless? and had ?pure? thought? If a god was omnipotent 'it' could have easily have done this. --AI

88. If a god is omnipotent how did 'it' fail to foresee that Satan would turn against 'it'? --AI

89. What is a god supposedly made of? --AI

This list was compiled by the Infidel Guy with submissions from many members of the atheist community.

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Old Seer
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That was a long time ago

redneF wrote:

Old Seer wrote:
To find a few things wrong in Einsteins material by a 9th grader has to show some schmarts'

I would agree if they found something that overturned Einstein's theories.

But...

Where's your evidence that you did that?

Old Seer wrote:
Nobody else in class did.

Where's your evidence of that?

Old Seer wrote:
Nobody in the whole school did.

Where's your evidence of that?

 

If it never happened, there would be no evidence.

Ipso Facto, what you say about you personally finding things wrong with Einstein's material.... never happened as you are suggesting it did.

I don't remember all the details of that time. I was a very good basketball and football type. I was an A team second stringer in the the 8th grade. That put me in company of the higher grades. I do remember conversing with a few of them on relativity etc. Years later I hear that Einstein was considered wrong here or there . It was on the things I held in question as a teener. I still visit three of them from time to time when I visit my Mom at my home town. There's no discussion of physics, it's nice to see them once a year. I don't even remember the particulars anymore. But, I wasn't born a dummy. Being I'm going to have to change the two rear axle bearings on my Cheby truck I was led to thinking about how differentials work. I knew but couldn't picture it. I went on line to find out, now I can picture (repicture if you prefer)how differentials work, I even found some new types. That's what happens over time. It'll happen to you to. One needs to review things from time to time. Now, go over my post and make a through analysis for criticism. I'm sure that if you couldn't find anything  you would create something. You might try using your higher form of extended intellect and all powerful cranial mass to pitch in and help save the world----from itself. We can use people like you.

'

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It had something to do with

BobSpence wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

in Einsteins material by a 9th grader has to show some schmarts' Nobody else in class did. Nobody in the whole school did.

I disagree with you concept of human, If you review the forum rules you might find that you are being asked to be human. Opposite that is animal. Each is a state of mind and member of your spiritual attributes.

Could you elaborate on what things you considered Einstein to have been wrong on?

You might be in line for a Nobel Prize....

His theories are still holding up remarkably well.

Considering the gross lack of understanding of Physics you have so far displayed, I would be very surprised if you really did such a thing.

and a Doppler effect. I'm not sure what it was.

Be aware I haven't cataloged all my thoughts over the years. There was a series on PBS this last week governing these subjects. If I heard it right a fella pointed out Einstein was found wrong on something. I'll go on line to the PBS channel to find the title.

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The title is

The Fabric of the Cosmos.

Very interesting, but I can't follow it. Mainly it's not one of my interests anymore. I have it on because I prefer it over  The Antuques Road Show, This Old House, or some cooking deal. It's channel 28.1-28.2-28.3. in this area. That's all I get out here in the boonies with my present antennae. The PBS channel here runs programs for a week or two every few days. I guess they change it because people are getting bored and it's time for something else. . It may be coming on again soon.

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The being you point to

we admit doesn't exist from or point of view. We don't hold to the claims of present Christianity, that to us is all assumptions or just made up from their misunderstanding. In essence, what we see they did was to replace Thor with JC. They adapted the bible to there own established beliefs. In the study of JC we we conclude that he is representative of our own inner self/person. Of course now, after looking at "what is the self" we recognize that to mean "person". Going farther with that we see a division of personalities, in directions of , one way, human, and the other, animal. For us we conclude that these two are the basis of how we relate to one another. If, the would operates on the animal side we now know the problem. That also brouyght us to the conclusion that the worlds problems cannot be removed by the material sciences. It's our direction of values in regards to one another  that needs to be changed to solve the problems.

Got to go for now. Buddy da dog needs to go for a walk.

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redneF
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Old Seer wrote: You might

Old Seer wrote:
 You might try using your higher form of extended intellect and all powerful cranial mass to pitch in and help save the world----from itself.

I am.

I'm fighting against superstitious dogma based on submission and blind faith in a draconian 'master' that only appears to be in the minds of certain people.

Old Seer wrote:
We can use people like you.

That's apparent when you compare America to other nations who have higher ratios of atheists in government, education, and atheist leaders.

Do yourself a favor and help America get up to speed with other nations. Eliminate theists in government and positions of authority and education.

The ship is sinking fast...

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Sorry about the cranial thing

Fighting against superstitious dogma---So are we. We are interjecting/trying to show/propose  (at least trying to) a different way to do it. I'm also on a so called Christian site. Guess what---I'm biblically unsound. Think about that. (in this post I make no attempts from a negative mind)

We can use people like you- I meant that eggszackly. - There's is no doubt that you all are excellent thinkers. I knew that before I got here. But- the way you're thinking toward others isn't helping. You can't save the world by being like it. That's trying to solve the problem with the problem, using a knife for a bandage.

I can't help America. The US has become it's own problem. And you can bet politicians won't solve the problem. Solving the problem gets rid of them. They deny all responsibility for everything. The only possible thing the world could need saving from are those that run it.

The ship is sinking fast- At this point in time Theists rule the world. You can't fight them from your turf. You have to fight them on theirs. You can't storm the castle until you get to the wall. The bible ultimately is not about material things-it's about spiritual things, you have to beat them there. If they want spiritual, you have hit'em with it. If you think no such thing exists you have no ammo. You can't tell them there isn't such a thing, they won't believe you, there's no result. Prove them spiritually faulty---they're gone. But the probability of government going with them is very high. We have to be careful how things are handled.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer wrote: We can use

Old Seer wrote:
We can use people like you- I meant that eggszackly.

Atheists are on the side of rational thinking. We base our reason on what is (the known), and not on what isn't (the unknown).

Old Seer wrote:
There's is no doubt that you all are excellent thinkers. I knew that before I got here.

Because we go where the evidence is, and where it takes us.

Old Seer wrote:
But- the way you're thinking toward others isn't helping.

Study sociology.

Democratic secular countries that are shaped by atheist educators and authorities are statistically better than any other, in terms of human prosperity and flourishing.

Old Seer wrote:
You can't save the world by being like it.

By destroying what is corrosive to human prosperity and human flourishing, we are saving humanity, and mitigating our negative impact on the eco system, even though it can ultimately be all for naught, as 'nature' has never shown any 'mercy' on any planet, let alone our planet, or 'humanity'.

Old Seer wrote:
That's trying to solve the problem with the problem...

We fight fires with fires, because it stops fires where we want them to.

Old Seer wrote:
 ... using a knife for a bandage.

No.

We use a scalpel to cut out the disease which wants to kill us.

The bandage is to help the cut heal by helping nature in a way that's positive to healing the cut.

Old Seer wrote:
I can't help America.

I and others can.

And we are.

By some accounts, there are up to 1 billion of us, and growing.

With the proliferation of the internet, give it a generation or 2 and you'll see.

Sound reasoning and rational ideas with prevail.

I'm not that cynical about humanity that sound reasoning won't prevail if we crush religious terrorism.

Old Seer wrote:
The US has become it's own problem.

Sure. Look at the percentage of Christians that believe there are actually demons that exist outside of the minds of people.

Old Seer wrote:
And you can bet politicians won't solve the problem.

Not if they're part of the problem (ie: Christnuts).

Old Seer wrote:
Solving the problem gets rid of them.

Stripping irrational thinkers of power is the solution.

Old Seer wrote:
They deny all responsibility for everything.

We need to improve the justice system.

I agree.

It will improve. There are more and more people becoming more and more rational everyday, all over the world.

Old Seer wrote:
The only possible thing the world could need saving from are those that run it.

Actually, it was Albert Einstein who said something to the effect of " The problems of the world cannot be solved by the ones that invented the problems".

That's where rational people come in, with sound reasoning, based on evidence of what 'is', and reasoning as to what we 'ought' to do.

Old Seer wrote:
The ship is sinking fast- At this point in time Theists rule the world.

No.

Just powerful countries and organizations and/or countries and organization capable and willing of mass destruction.

The most intelligent and philosophically sound atheists want to eliminate that, and win the 'hearts and minds' of humanity with 'ideas'.

Old Seer wrote:
You can't fight them from your turf. You have to fight them on theirs.

It's a war of ideas.

Rational thinking and appeals to reason vs superstitious thinking and dogma.

You'd have to be really cynical of humans to not see what side will prevail.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

That's what the evidence shows.

 

It's completely logical.

I just checked:

 

P1 - If there is a reason that we can win, we can win

P2-  There are plenty of reasons we can win

C  - We can win

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Ok I appreciate you input.

redneF wrote:

Old Seer wrote:
We can use people like you- I meant that eggszackly.

Atheists are on the side of rational thinking. We base our reason on what is (the known), and not on what isn't (the unknown).

Old Seer wrote:
There's is no doubt that you all are excellent thinkers. I knew that before I got here.

Because we go where the evidence is, and where it takes us.

Old Seer wrote:
But- the way you're thinking toward others isn't helping.

Study sociology.

Democratic secular countries that are shaped by atheist educators and authorities are statistically better than any other, in terms of human prosperity and flourishing.

Old Seer wrote:
You can't save the world by being like it.

By destroying what is corrosive to human prosperity and human flourishing, we are saving humanity, and mitigating our negative impact on the eco system, even though it can ultimately be all for naught, as 'nature' has never shown any 'mercy' on any planet, let alone our planet, or 'humanity'.

Old Seer wrote:
That's trying to solve the problem with the problem...

We fight fires with fires, because it stops fires where we want them to.

Old Seer wrote:
 ... using a knife for a bandage.

No.

We use a scalpel to cut out the disease which wants to kill us.

The bandage is to help the cut heal by helping nature in a way that's positive to healing the cut.

Old Seer wrote:
I can't help America.

I and others can.

And we are.

By some accounts, there are up to 1 billion of us, and growing.

With the proliferation of the internet, give it a generation or 2 and you'll see.

Sound reasoning and rational ideas with prevail.

I'm not that cynical about humanity that sound reasoning won't prevail if we crush religious terrorism.

Old Seer wrote:
The US has become it's own problem.

Sure. Look at the percentage of Christians that believe there are actually demons that exist outside of the minds of people.

Old Seer wrote:
And you can bet politicians won't solve the problem.

Not if they're part of the problem (ie: Christnuts).

Old Seer wrote:
Solving the problem gets rid of them.

Stripping irrational thinkers of power is the solution.

Old Seer wrote:
They deny all responsibility for everything.

We need to improve the justice system.

I agree.

It will improve. There are more and more people becoming more and more rational everyday, all over the world.

Old Seer wrote:
The only possible thing the world could need saving from are those that run it.

Actually, it was Albert Einstein who said something to the effect of " The problems of the world cannot be solved by the ones that invented the problems".

That's where rational people come in, with sound reasoning, based on evidence of what 'is', and reasoning as to what we 'ought' to do.

Old Seer wrote:
The ship is sinking fast- At this point in time Theists rule the world.

No.

Just powerful countries and organizations and/or countries and organization capable and willing of mass destruction.

The most intelligent and philosophically sound atheists want to eliminate that, and win the 'hearts and minds' of humanity with 'ideas'.

Old Seer wrote:
You can't fight them from your turf. You have to fight them on theirs.

It's a war of ideas.

Rational thinking and appeals to reason vs superstitious thinking and dogma.

You'd have to be really cynical of humans to not see what side will prevail.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

That's what the evidence shows.

 

It's completely logical.

I just checked:

 

P1 - If there is a reason that we can win, we can win

P2-  There are plenty of reasons we can win

C  - We can win

 

 

Well, einstien and I do have some braineryin common. I didn't know he said that. I thought I had an original.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Ok I appreciate you input.

redneF wrote:

Old Seer wrote:
We can use people like you- I meant that eggszackly.

Atheists are on the side of rational thinking. We base our reason on what is (the known), and not on what isn't (the unknown).

Old Seer wrote:
There's is no doubt that you all are excellent thinkers. I knew that before I got here.

Because we go where the evidence is, and where it takes us.

Old Seer wrote:
But- the way you're thinking toward others isn't helping.

Study sociology.

Democratic secular countries that are shaped by atheist educators and authorities are statistically better than any other, in terms of human prosperity and flourishing.

Old Seer wrote:
You can't save the world by being like it.

By destroying what is corrosive to human prosperity and human flourishing, we are saving humanity, and mitigating our negative impact on the eco system, even though it can ultimately be all for naught, as 'nature' has never shown any 'mercy' on any planet, let alone our planet, or 'humanity'.

Old Seer wrote:
That's trying to solve the problem with the problem...

We fight fires with fires, because it stops fires where we want them to.

Old Seer wrote:
 ... using a knife for a bandage.

No.

We use a scalpel to cut out the disease which wants to kill us.

The bandage is to help the cut heal by helping nature in a way that's positive to healing the cut.

Old Seer wrote:
I can't help America.

I and others can.

And we are.

By some accounts, there are up to 1 billion of us, and growing.

With the proliferation of the internet, give it a generation or 2 and you'll see.

Sound reasoning and rational ideas with prevail.

I'm not that cynical about humanity that sound reasoning won't prevail if we crush religious terrorism.

Old Seer wrote:
The US has become it's own problem.

Sure. Look at the percentage of Christians that believe there are actually demons that exist outside of the minds of people.

Old Seer wrote:
And you can bet politicians won't solve the problem.

Not if they're part of the problem (ie: Christnuts).

Old Seer wrote:
Solving the problem gets rid of them.

Stripping irrational thinkers of power is the solution.

Old Seer wrote:
They deny all responsibility for everything.

We need to improve the justice system.

I agree.

It will improve. There are more and more people becoming more and more rational everyday, all over the world.

Old Seer wrote:
The only possible thing the world could need saving from are those that run it.

Actually, it was Albert Einstein who said something to the effect of " The problems of the world cannot be solved by the ones that invented the problems".

That's where rational people come in, with sound reasoning, based on evidence of what 'is', and reasoning as to what we 'ought' to do.

Old Seer wrote:
The ship is sinking fast- At this point in time Theists rule the world.

No.

Just powerful countries and organizations and/or countries and organization capable and willing of mass destruction.

The most intelligent and philosophically sound atheists want to eliminate that, and win the 'hearts and minds' of humanity with 'ideas'.

Old Seer wrote:
You can't fight them from your turf. You have to fight them on theirs.

It's a war of ideas.

Rational thinking and appeals to reason vs superstitious thinking and dogma.

You'd have to be really cynical of humans to not see what side will prevail.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

That's what the evidence shows.

 

It's completely logical.

I just checked:

 

P1 - If there is a reason that we can win, we can win

P2-  There are plenty of reasons we can win

C  - We can win

 

 

Well, Einstein and I do have some brainery in common. I didn't know he said that. I thought I had an original.

Here's another one of mine---Oh lord, God almighty,we beseech thee, please save us from those trying to save us. If Einstein said that too I want a Nobel prize.

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Old Seer wrote: Well,

Old Seer wrote:
Well, Einstein and I do have some brainery in common. I didn't know he said that. I thought I had an original. 

Here's another one of mine---Oh lord, God almighty,we beseech thee, please save us from those trying to save us. If Einstein said that too I want a Nobel prize.

I doubt you'd qualify for a Nobel Prize for praying to something that may only exist in your mind.

 

And I don't think you've taken that observation of Einstein's to it's logical extension.

The problem we face is fundamental religious extremism.

They are both homicidal and suicidal.

They have unjustified desires and motives to murder members of another tribe in cold blood, and it's not immoral to kill them first.

1- Because it's in self defense.

2- Because they were suicidal. Their intention was to die trying because in their minds they get rewarded after death.

3-  Preemptive strikes in self defense when an intention to harm or murder you or your loved ones is made forcefully and clearly is not immoral. It's self preservation. That's instinct. A reflex. It's completely 'natural'.

 

'Problem' solved...

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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No gloating intended

The Fabric of the Cosmos started over on the PBS channel. The statement goes -Scientists/who ever, now know that Einstein wasn't always right.  But that may not be what I thought he had wrong. What this program is about is things far beyond what I care to study. When one looks at the vastness of the man,s determinations what ever he could be wrong on would have to be pretty minute. It's an interesting program but I've seen it a number of times. I like the graphics. You guys may want to have a look at it if you haven't already.

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Einstein certainly made

Einstein certainly made mistakes.

But the theories that he is most famous for, Special and General Relativity, have so far stood up very well.

There are problems, which are currently being worked on, in reconciling them with aspects of Quantum Mechanics. which is also an extremely well verified theory, into a "Theory of Everything". This seems to apply particularly with respect to Gravity. Both theories work extremely well, but provide different models, which are hard to reconcile in some areas. It is also tricky to devise experiments to test which one 'works' best in those areas.

So, to be of interest, rather than showing where Einstein was wrong, you would need to show where his most well-established theories have problems. This would really require some actual experiments, to show where predictions based on those theories fail. That's how you show where established theories have problems.

 

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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Thor is a myth and can be

Thor is a myth and can be proven to be like every other myth that us deluded humans have made up to come against the incorruptible God.As with courtroom cases it is necessary to set the evidence out in a very logical and ordered fashion. We can not leave any stone uncovered as we present factual evidence. We only ever have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt because as finite human beings we can never obtain an unlimited amount of information on a subject. That is why God has given us a built in sense of logic and reason. It to cover gaps in knowledge and is the cornerstone of how we make sense of the world. An atheist who says he doesnt believe in God has not an infinite amount of information to come to such an absolute illumination. It is quite possible that God exists in that deluded part of his finite brain that has not the infinite amount of information needed on an infinite subject like God. Nor will it be revealed to the unrepentant. Also it scares deluded atheists to think that logical minded and more educated people, than the supposedly super clever individuals they perceive themselves to be, have looked at the evidence (we love that word) and concluded that it does indeed point to the creation as having come from not just God but the Triune God of the Bible. Powerful proof (there's that word again) exists that Christianity is the one true religion and that the Triune God who reveals Himself to the repentant through its pages is in fact the creator of all we see. When told by atheists that there is no way to prove the invisible God that is the atheist trying to reduce the debate to a debate of fantasy Vs reality. This is not the case. While we may not be able to see God we can however study the effects of the cause. We can not see gravity, yet we instinctively know a law such as gravity must exist to explain why my pen does indeed fall to the ground in a mathematical trajectory. The universe is a giant effect and we can understand the cause by studying the effect. The effect is what we can see and study using reason, logic and science. What the deluded atheist fails to grasp is that his interpretation of the facts is so colored and prejudiced he can never come up with the right answer because the right answer to him will be what his religious beliefs in evolutionism allow him to see and their cause is their God and their belief of how He works and creates. So if God created us we will be able to study using science, reason and logic (yes, we want science in this debate). If we created God (think evolutionism) then we will also be able to prove this as fallible human beings err and contradict and their theories will disintegrate under scientific scrutiny. God’s absolute truth can and will not err. Otherwise He would not be God. He would not be a God who could speak physical observable phenomena into existence by the power of His unfailing Word. So to properly debate an atheist we have to pull them from the realm of their religious belief to the realm of science, reason, logic and sound philosophy. When faced with evidence their only attack is to retreat with insults and weak willed macho displays. I have already set out the very strong possibility that Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, was indeed not a myth. I have provided a logical argument and given the opportunity to discredit. While we are a long way from getting to establishing the gospels as historical truthful accounts we can now proceed to the next argument that deluded atheists fling at the Bible knowing that a world who doesn't want God, because they are wicked and sinful, will like to have their itching ears satisfied with what they only get as hearsay. I am awarding the points in this debate on a very fair and reasonable assessment of the arguments presented. As a born again Christian I will not lie or act unfairly as I understand every word I speak in life will be given as an account on the day I stand before Jesus Christ. I used to lie and cheat. I do not anymore. I will present my next line of evidence in a few days.


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CliffD wrote:Thor is a myth

CliffD wrote:

Thor is a myth and can be proven to be like every other myth that us deluded humans have made up to come against the incorruptible God.As with courtroom cases it is necessary to set the evidence out in a very logical and ordered fashion. We can not leave any stone uncovered as we present factual evidence. We only ever have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt because as finite human beings we can never obtain an unlimited amount of information on a subject. That is why God has given us a built in sense of logic and reason. It to cover gaps in knowledge and is the cornerstone of how we make sense of the world. An atheist who says he doesnt believe in God has not an infinite amount of information to come to such an absolute illumination. It is quite possible that God exists in that deluded part of his finite brain that has not the infinite amount of information needed on an infinite subject like God. Nor will it be revealed to the unrepentant. Also it scares deluded atheists to think that logical minded and more educated people, than the supposedly super clever individuals they perceive themselves to be, have looked at the evidence (we love that word) and concluded that it does indeed point to the creation as having come from not just God but the Triune God of the Bible. Powerful proof (there's that word again) exists that Christianity is the one true religion and that the Triune God who reveals Himself to the repentant through its pages is in fact the creator of all we see. When told by atheists that there is no way to prove the invisible God that is the atheist trying to reduce the debate to a debate of fantasy Vs reality. This is not the case. While we may not be able to see God we can however study the effects of the cause. We can not see gravity, yet we instinctively know a law such as gravity must exist to explain why my pen does indeed fall to the ground in a mathematical trajectory. The universe is a giant effect and we can understand the cause by studying the effect. The effect is what we can see and study using reason, logic and science. What the deluded atheist fails to grasp is that his interpretation of the facts is so colored and prejudiced he can never come up with the right answer because the right answer to him will be what his religious beliefs in evolutionism allow him to see and their cause is their God and their belief of how He works and creates. So if God created us we will be able to study using science, reason and logic (yes, we want science in this debate). If we created God (think evolutionism) then we will also be able to prove this as fallible human beings err and contradict and their theories will disintegrate under scientific scrutiny. God’s absolute truth can and will not err. Otherwise He would not be God. He would not be a God who could speak physical observable phenomena into existence by the power of His unfailing Word. So to properly debate an atheist we have to pull them from the realm of their religious belief to the realm of science, reason, logic and sound philosophy. When faced with evidence their only attack is to retreat with insults and weak willed macho displays. I have already set out the very strong possibility that Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, was indeed not a myth. I have provided a logical argument and given the opportunity to discredit. While we are a long way from getting to establishing the gospels as historical truthful accounts we can now proceed to the next argument that deluded atheists fling at the Bible knowing that a world who doesn't want God, because they are wicked and sinful, will like to have their itching ears satisfied with what they only get as hearsay. I am awarding the points in this debate on a very fair and reasonable assessment of the arguments presented. As a born again Christian I will not lie or act unfairly as I understand every word I speak in life will be given as an account on the day I stand before Jesus Christ. I used to lie and cheat. I do not anymore. I will present my next line of evidence in a few days.

 

Excuse me, but is there a Biblical commandment against using paragraphs ?

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:
Excuse me, but is there a Biblical commandment against using paragraphs ?

Ya, but he got one of those 'I Repent' T shirts at the gift shop on his way out of a 'Way Of The Master' workshops.

9 out of 10 Americans pick Christianity because they can be saved without ever having to get up off the couch to do any praying, do any 'works', or wash their feet...

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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BobSpence wrote:Einstein

BobSpence wrote:

Einstein certainly made mistakes.

But the theories that he is most famous for, Special and General Relativity, have so far stood up very well.

There are problems, which are currently being worked on, in reconciling them with aspects of Quantum Mechanics. which is also an extremely well verified theory, into a "Theory of Everything". This seems to apply particularly with respect to Gravity. Both theories work extremely well, but provide different models, which are hard to reconcile in some areas. It is also tricky to devise experiments to test which one 'works' best in those areas.

So, to be of interest, rather than showing where Einstein was wrong, you would need to show where his most well-established theories have problems. This would really require some actual experiments, to show where predictions based on those theories fail. That's how you show where established theories have problems.

 

 

Agree. The man is one of my heroes, along with Cochise, etal.

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CliffD wrote:Thor is a myth

CliffD wrote:
Thor is a myth and can be proven to be like every other myth that us deluded humans have made up

You can disprove thor like I can disprove your god.

I was almost tempted to give you a point just for not copy/pasting again, but you're still not actually making any comprehensible argument so instead I'll just score this round as 0.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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That was for the light side

redneF wrote:

Old Seer wrote:
Well, Einstein and I do have some brainery in common. I didn't know he said that. I thought I had an original. 

Here's another one of mine---Oh lord, God almighty,we beseech thee, please save us from those trying to save us. If Einstein said that too I want a Nobel prize.

I doubt you'd qualify for a Nobel Prize for praying to something that may only exist in your mind.

 

And I don't think you've taken that observation of Einstein's to it's logical extension.

The problem we face is fundamental religious extremism.

They are both homicidal and suicidal.

They have unjustified desires and motives to murder members of another tribe in cold blood, and it's not immoral to kill them first.

1- Because it's in self defense.

2- Because they were suicidal. Their intention was to die trying because in their minds they get rewarded after death.

3-  Preemptive strikes in self defense when an intention to harm or murder you or your loved ones is made forcefully and clearly is not immoral. It's self preservation. That's instinct. A reflex. It's completely 'natural'.

 

'Problem' solved...

 

 

I don't pray. I find no logical reason for it. The last last time I prayed I was 14. I wanted a bike. The bike cost 25 bucks. The 25 bucks did the deed.


 

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a bike story

Old Seer wrote:

I don't pray. I find no logical reason for it. The last last time I prayed I was 14. I wanted a bike. The bike cost 25 bucks. The 25 bucks did the deed.

 

I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness.

Smiling

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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See

now there ya go. I guy can't keep a secret these days. The statute of limitations musta run out by now. Last year the Hardware store I bought it from was torn down. No place to return it now. No restitution possible.

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Some thoughts to ponder.

Reddragon wrote:
Sapient wrote:
List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers. 1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay 2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"? 3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy 4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.] . . . . PICK THE QUESTION YOU WANT TO ANSWER, AND POST IT HERE...
Hey, whats up? I haven't been here in a while and I'm just jumping in. I picked the first few questions. They may have been answered but here goes: For number 1. Jesus did not fulfill all of the OT prophecies but will fulfill them when He comes back. The Jews were looking for a king(if I remember right), and when Jesus comes back He will come as a king. Ok, I'm rusty when it comes to biblical prophesy but from what I can remember from the book of Revelations, Jesus will have a kingdom on the earth for 1000 years. For number 2. I always thought that the garden of eden didn't exist anymore and maybe it was destroyed by the flood. So there would be no more need for cherubims with a flaming sword to gaurd it. For number 3. I think that we can't assume that the Euphrates River is the same as the pre-flood Euphrates River. I would think that the topography of the earth change massively as a result of the flood. This would make me think that the original Euphrates river would not have been recognizeable to Noah and his family while at the same time maybe the new Euphrates river resembled the old or maybe they just named it after the old river for some reason. For number 4. I don't believe heaven is utter bliss. Unless somebody finds this in the Bible somewhere. I don't think heaven is a place of perfect happyness. I think we will know more than we do now. I think as a result of this some people will be sad and wish they had lived better lives or wish they had been more dedicated to God. Also I think that if you don't like church or don't enjoy praising God, you may not like it in heaven. BTW All of this is IMHO [/quote

I've been looking for something from our info to explain a body and the person are separate. Sapient posted what I think can explain our side. We have also concluded that it's memory that makes us individuals. This is something that we -us- went over at a past time. If the memory is erased so is the person. What we've noticed in the world that there are different usages of Human. OK---Human body, we say no such thing, but human to another is the body, while human to someone else is the person and the body. What Sapient said demonstrates it. On one hand we have the person as memory (for instance) on the other hand the person is kapoot when dead, we agree. Then when one is dead there is no person. But also when one is dead does the body remain human. I hope I explained this satisfactorily

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Christmas greetings brother Rednef

To all my friends and brothers in the ridiculous response squad. I will be taking a few weeks away to enjoy with my family. I will return in the New Year to ask the rational questions that you “enlightened” atheists seemingly don’t have the rational answers for. I will give the answers for the delusion of Biblical contradictions, a delusion that the unrepentant love to believe but a delusion that the repentant will gladly give their enlightened answers to. I will continue with my presentation of evidence that prove the Son of God, Jesus Christ, intersected the human race to atone for the sins of the world in the eyes of a God so holy that if you ever only told 1 lie in your life you would stand condemned before Him. I will continue to show brother Rednef the depth of his delusion in his religious beliefs in evolution. I will spend this Christmas celebrating the birth of the savior of the World, Jesus Christ, an event so monumental they started to count time to prepare for His return. To all who doubt me or find my amazing, unshakeable faith in the living God unsubstantiated I would say this. The greatest gift that you will ever receive is the free gift of salvation from the God who created you. Bow your knee and humble yourself before a holy God. Repent of your sin and thank God that in His mercy He nailed your sin to the cross at Calvary. Thank Him that He loves you so much He judged His sinless, spotless son in your place. Then ask the Holy Spirit of God, who you will be born again with to speak and lead and guide you in paths of righteousness. Then come back to this forum and tell the deluded atheists that you used to be a deluded atheist also and you wish them to know that Jesus Christ is indeed the Son of the living God. I want you to know that God loves you. Anything that misrepresents God as a God of love is not of God but of the Devil. To my brother Rednef. Your delusion is great and one that may bring you to the pit of Hell for eternity. I will pray for you and your family this Christmas. Happy Christmas brother! I will leave you with a well known verse of Scripture and another an answer to that list of deluded questions which I have diligently answered every one of, and will post in the new Year. (John 4) Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister. Question 22. In the watchmaker analogy, a watch is used to show us intelligent design and compares that to the Universe as evidence of design. We know watches are designed because we have past experience with watches, as well as with other man made objects. My question is: What Universe is the Intelligent Design proponent using to compare this Universe with to draw such an analogy? What God did he see create a Universe? – IG Our past experience with watches and other things of complex design like computers lead us to correctly conclude that intricate design requires a designer. Therefore we can follow the logical argument 1. Every design has a designer. 2. The universe has an exceptionally unfathomable intricate design 3. Therefore the universe has a designer. We rightly conclude that the universe has a designer because we have perceived many intricate designs in life and know intuitively that they had to have somebody design them. A painting needs a painter. An airplane needs an engineer. The universe has a complexity and design on a scale that can not even be described. It is more logical to believe that an extremely intelligent being created a universe of such order and complexity than to believe that an event which was essentially an explosion of unimaginable proportions(Big Bang)created a universe so complex and ordered. So we believe by faith that it was created by God because to believe that an explosion created such order and design is like asking us to believe that if a bomb went off in a builders yard it would have the effect of building a massive complex skyscraper with all the furniture made and ordered neat and tidy in the building with the walls painted and it’s own solar powered and self sustainable energy ecosystem. If we can not believe that such a design can come about by a chance explosion, how much more impossible is it to believe that a universe of unimaginably greater design and complexity than a fully furnished, fully , decorated, fully functional, fully self sufficient sky scraper came by way of a chance explosion. Just because we did not see God create the universe our rational minds tell us it could not have come about by chance. What we do know is that the intelligent Creator that created it is a personable being because an impersonal being would not be able to make the choice to create. We believe by faith that God was the cause of this giant effect like the atheist believes by faith that a massive explosion instead of creating disorder and chaos created order and complexity. As much as the Bible believing Christian was not there to see God do it (We just have an account confirmed to the repentant as the Word of the living God, neither was the atheist there to see nobody create something out of absolutely nothing at all. You see either the universe is eternal, which science has proven not to be the case, or something outside the universe is eternal. Either something created something out of absolutely nothing at all or nothing created something out of absolutely nothing at all (no thing, emptiness, what rocks dream of). Our past experiences with watches rightfully help us conclude that a design of even greater complexity would require a designer of even greater intelligence. It is built into that unfailing sense of reality we come so wonderfully made with. My question for the atheist is this - what phenomena did they observe billions and billions and billions of years ago that can create something out of absolutely nothing at all? Would they be willing to share this study with us that we might all know how to create something out of absolutely nothing at all and put an end to the problem of scarcity we come across so often in this world? In answer to your question – we obviously live in the parallel universe where nothing can create something out of absolutely nothing at all and can create atoms and molecules of unimaginable design and information, without a designer or programmer. So I have a few questions for brother Rednef to contemplate as he chews his Christmas Turkey. 1.Why would we start a remembrance festival (Christmas) for a man who was 2.Why did we start counting days with B.C. and A.D. for a non existent myth? 3.Where is the scientific research evidence of how to start life from non-life? 4. What Is a more logical God to believe in - a supernatural, intelligent one that exists outside time, space and matter or a non - existent phenomena of nothingness that can create order, complexity, design and information out of absolutely nothing at all? In other words what is your rational answer for this question – What is more logical to believe? Something created something out of nothing or nothing created something out of nothing. 5.If God doesn’t exist, why is there something rather than nothing at all? Happy Christmas brother. I will look forward to reading your rational responses in the New Year.


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Christmas greetings brother Rednef

To all my friends and brothers in the ridiculous response squad. I will be taking a few weeks away to enjoy with my family. I will return in the New Year to ask the rational questions that you “enlightened” atheists seemingly don’t have the rational answers for. I will give the answers for the delusion of Biblical contradictions, a delusion that the unrepentant love to believe but a delusion that the repentant will gladly give their enlightened answers to. I will continue with my presentation of evidence that prove the Son of God, Jesus Christ, intersected the human race to atone for the sins of the world in the eyes of a God so holy that if you ever only told 1 lie in your life you would stand condemned before Him. I will continue to show brother Rednef the depth of his delusion in his religious beliefs in evolution. I will spend this Christmas celebrating the birth of the savior of the World, Jesus Christ, an event so monumental they started to count time to prepare for His return. To all who doubt me or find my amazing, unshakeable faith in the living God unsubstantiated I would say this. The greatest gift that you will ever receive is the free gift of salvation from the God who created you. Bow your knee and humble yourself before a holy God. Repent of your sin and thank God that in His mercy He nailed your sin to the cross at Calvary. Thank Him that He loves you so much He judged His sinless, spotless son in your place. Then ask the Holy Spirit of God, who you will be born again with to speak and lead and guide you in paths of righteousness. Then come back to this forum and tell the deluded atheists that you used to be a deluded atheist also and you wish them to know that Jesus Christ is indeed the Son of the living God. I want you to know that God loves you. Anything that misrepresents God as a God of love is not of God but of the Devil. To my brother Rednef. Your delusion is great and one that may bring you to the pit of Hell for eternity. I will pray for you and your family this Christmas. Happy Christmas brother! I will leave you with a well known verse of Scripture and another an answer to that list of deluded questions which I have diligently answered every one of, and will post in the new Year. (John 4) Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister. Question 22. In the watchmaker analogy, a watch is used to show us intelligent design and compares that to the Universe as evidence of design. We know watches are designed because we have past experience with watches, as well as with other man made objects. My question is: What Universe is the Intelligent Design proponent using to compare this Universe with to draw such an analogy? What God did he see create a Universe? – IG Our past experience with watches and other things of complex design like computers lead us to correctly conclude that intricate design requires a designer. Therefore we can follow the logical argument 1. Every design has a designer. 2. The universe has an exceptionally unfathomable intricate design 3. Therefore the universe has a designer. We rightly conclude that the universe has a designer because we have perceived many intricate designs in life and know intuitively that they had to have somebody design them. A painting needs a painter. An airplane needs an engineer. The universe has a complexity and design on a scale that can not even be described. It is more logical to believe that an extremely intelligent being created a universe of such order and complexity than to believe that an event which was essentially an explosion of unimaginable proportions(Big Bang)created a universe so complex and ordered. So we believe by faith that it was created by God because to believe that an explosion created such order and design is like asking us to believe that if a bomb went off in a builders yard it would have the effect of building a massive complex skyscraper with all the furniture made and ordered neat and tidy in the building with the walls painted and it’s own solar powered and self sustainable energy ecosystem. If we can not believe that such a design can come about by a chance explosion, how much more impossible is it to believe that a universe of unimaginably greater design and complexity than a fully furnished, fully , decorated, fully functional, fully self sufficient sky scraper came by way of a chance explosion. Just because we did not see God create the universe our rational minds tell us it could not have come about by chance. What we do know is that the intelligent Creator that created it is a personable being because an impersonal being would not be able to make the choice to create. We believe by faith that God was the cause of this giant effect like the atheist believes by faith that a massive explosion instead of creating disorder and chaos created order and complexity. As much as the Bible believing Christian was not there to see God do it (We just have an account confirmed to the repentant as the Word of the living God, neither was the atheist there to see nobody create something out of absolutely nothing at all. You see either the universe is eternal, which science has proven not to be the case, or something outside the universe is eternal. Either something created something out of absolutely nothing at all or nothing created something out of absolutely nothing at all (no thing, emptiness, what rocks dream of). Our past experiences with watches rightfully help us conclude that a design of even greater complexity would require a designer of even greater intelligence. It is built into that unfailing sense of reality we come so wonderfully made with. My question for the atheist is this - what phenomena did they observe billions and billions and billions of years ago that can create something out of absolutely nothing at all? Would they be willing to share this study with us that we might all know how to create something out of absolutely nothing at all and put an end to the problem of scarcity we come across so often in this world? In answer to your question – we obviously live in the parallel universe where nothing can create something out of absolutely nothing at all and can create atoms and molecules of unimaginable design and information, without a designer or programmer. So I have a few questions for brother Rednef to contemplate as he chews his Christmas Turkey. 1. Why would we start a remembrance festival (Christmas) for a man who was a figment of people’s imagination? 2. Why did we start counting days with B.C. and A.D. for a non existent myth? 3. Where is the scientific research evidence of how to start life from non-life? 4. What Is a more logical God to believe in - a supernatural, intelligent one that exists outside time, space and matter or a non - existent phenomena of nothingness that can create order, complexity, design and information out of absolutely nothing at all? In other words what is your rational answer for this question – What is more logical to believe? Something created something out of nothing or nothing created something out of nothing. 5. If God doesn’t exist, why is there something rather than nothing at all? Happy Christmas brother. I will look forward to reading your rational responses in the New Year.


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Christmas greetings brother Rednef

To all my friends and brothers in the ridiculous response squad. I will be taking a few weeks away to enjoy with my family. I will return in the New Year to ask the rational questions that you “enlightened” atheists seemingly don’t have the rational answers for. I will give the answers for the delusion of Biblical contradictions, a delusion that the unrepentant love to believe but a delusion that the repentant will gladly give their enlightened answers to. I will continue with my presentation of evidence that prove the Son of God, Jesus Christ, intersected the human race to atone for the sins of the world in the eyes of a God so holy that if you ever only told 1 lie in your life you would stand condemned before Him. I will continue to show brother Rednef the depth of his delusion in his religious beliefs in evolution. I will spend this Christmas celebrating the birth of the savior of the World, Jesus Christ, an event so monumental they started to count time to prepare for His return. To all who doubt me or find my amazing, unshakeable faith in the living God unsubstantiated I would say this. The greatest gift that you will ever receive is the free gift of salvation from the God who created you. Bow your knee and humble yourself before a holy God. Repent of your sin and thank God that in His mercy He nailed your sin to the cross at Calvary. Thank Him that He loves you so much He judged His sinless, spotless son in your place. Then ask the Holy Spirit of God, who you will be born again with to speak and lead and guide you in paths of righteousness. Then come back to this forum and tell the deluded atheists that you used to be a deluded atheist also and you wish them to know that Jesus Christ is indeed the Son of the living God. I want you to know that God loves you. Anything that misrepresents God as a God of love is not of God but of the Devil. To my brother Rednef. Your delusion is great and one that may bring you to the pit of Hell for eternity. I will pray for you and your family this Christmas. Happy Christmas brother! I will leave you with a well known verse of Scripture and another an answer to that list of deluded questions which I have diligently answered every one of, and will post in the new Year.


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Christmas greetings brother Rednef

(Jonn 4) Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

We love because he first loved us. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.


CliffD
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Christmas greetings brother Rednef

Question 22. In the watchmaker analogy, a watch is used to show us intelligent design and compares that to the Universe as evidence of design. We know watches are designed because we have past experience with watches, as well as with other man made objects. My question is: What Universe is the Intelligent Design proponent using to compare this Universe with to draw such an analogy? What God did he see create a Universe? – IG

Answer - Our past experience with watches and other things of complex design like computers lead us to correctly conclude that intricate design requires a designer. Therefore we can follow the logical argument 1. Every design has a designer. 2. The universe has an exceptionally unfathomable intricate design 3. Therefore the universe has a designer. We rightly conclude that the universe has a designer because we have perceived many intricate designs in life and know intuitively that they had to have somebody design them. A painting needs a painter. An airplane needs an engineer. The universe has a complexity and design on a scale that can not even be described. It is more logical to believe that an extremely intelligent being created a universe of such order and complexity than to believe that an event which was essentially an explosion of unimaginable proportions(Big Bang)created a universe so complex and ordered. So we believe by faith that it was created by God because to believe that an explosion created such order and design is like asking us to believe that if a bomb went off in a builders yard it would have the effect of building a massive complex skyscraper with all the furniture made and ordered neat and tidy in the building with the walls painted and it’s own solar powered and self sustainable energy ecosystem. If we can not believe that such a design can come about by a chance explosion, how much more impossible is it to believe that a universe of unimaginably greater design and complexity than a fully furnished, fully , decorated, fully functional, fully self sufficient sky scraper came by way of a chance explosion. Just because we did not see God create the universe our rational minds tell us it could not have come about by chance. What we do know is that the intelligent Creator that created it is a personable being because an impersonal being would not be able to make the choice to create. We believe by faith that God was the cause of this giant effect like the atheist believes by faith that a massive explosion instead of creating disorder and chaos created order and complexity. As much as the Bible believing Christian was not there to see God do it (We just have an account confirmed to the repentant as the Word of the living God, neither was the atheist there to see nobody create something out of absolutely nothing at all. You see either the universe is eternal, which science has proven not to be the case, or something outside the universe is eternal. Either something created something out of absolutely nothing at all or nothing created something out of absolutely nothing at all (no thing, emptiness, what rocks dream of). Our past experiences with watches rightfully help us conclude that a design of even greater complexity would require a designer of even greater intelligence. It is built into that unfailing sense of reality we come so wonderfully made with. My question for the atheist is this - what phenomena did they observe billions and billions and billions of years ago that can create something out of absolutely nothing at all? Would they be willing to share this study with us that we might all know how to create something out of absolutely nothing at all and put an end to the problem of scarcity we come across so often in this world? In answer to your question – we obviously live in the parallel universe where nothing can create something out of absolutely nothing at all and can create atoms and molecules of unimaginable design and information, without a designer or programmer.


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Christmas greetings brother Rednef

So I have a few questions for brother Rednef to contemplate as he chews his Christmas Turkey.

Why would we start a remembrance festival (Christmas) for a man who was a figment of people’s imagination?

Why did we start counting days with B.C. and A.D. for a non existent myth?

Where is the scientific research evidence of how to start life from non-life?

What Is a more logical God to believe in - a supernatural, intelligent one that exists outside time, space and matter or a non - existent phenomena of nothingness that can create order, complexity, design and information out of absolutely nothing at all? In other words what is your rational answer for this question – What is more logical to believe? Something created something out of nothing or nothing created something out of nothing.

If God doesn’t exist, why is there something rather than absolutely nothing at all?

Happy Christmas brother. I will look forward to reading your rational responses in the New Year.


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One shouldn't speak to soon.

CliffD wrote:
So I have a few questions for brother Rednef to contemplate as he chews his Christmas Turkey. Why would we start a remembrance festival (Christmas) for a man who was a figment of people’s imagination? Why did we start counting days with B.C. and A.D. for a non existent myth? Where is the scientific research evidence of how to start life from non-life? What Is a more logical God to believe in - a supernatural, intelligent one that exists outside time, space and matter or a non - existent phenomena of nothingness that can create order, complexity, design and information out of absolutely nothing at all? In other words what is your rational answer for this question – What is more logical to believe? Something created something out of nothing or nothing created something out of nothing. If God dozen’t exist, why is there something rather than absolutely nothing at all? Happy Christmas brother. I will look forward to reading your rational responses in the New Year.

We can't know what happened at a time when we weren't here/there. As for out group it's evolution. (we make these determinations for our selves and let others decide for themselves) We say--where there's no brain there's no one. In order for a person to form a brain has to be constructed first. That means if there was no spiritual until then. That means also that God wasn't until there was a being of some kind. We have no estimate has to how far back it is that "the being" became conscious of itself. In essence---to ask "what am I". As we can see it- The Adamites did that very thing--ask what am I. They separate out the components that they found and accept one course or direction of values. Using the word-essence- again----in essence they call their discovery "God". 

All the experiments and tests need are not yet all done to produce a biological form. I say it's a matter of time. The simplicity of something is always after the experiment works. We found it not wise to question the material sciences. We know not to ask for results before the experiment is done. It looks as it may be a process of repulsion and attraction to arrange the components of DNA in a sequence to form a cell or something less.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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CliffD wrote:So I have a

CliffD wrote:
So I have a few questions for brother Rednef to contemplate as he chews his Christmas Turkey. Why would we start a remembrance festival (Christmas) for a man who was a figment of people’s imagination? Why did we start counting days with B.C. and A.D. for a non existent myth? Where is the scientific research evidence of how to start life from non-life? What Is a more logical God to believe in - a supernatural, intelligent one that exists outside time, space and matter or a non - existent phenomena of nothingness that can create order, complexity, design and information out of absolutely nothing at all? In other words what is your rational answer for this question – What is more logical to believe? Something created something out of nothing or nothing created something out of nothing. If God doesn’t exist, why is there something rather than absolutely nothing at all? Happy Christmas brother. I will look forward to reading your rational responses in the New Year.

1. Christians didn't start Christmas - they co-opted pagan ceremonies (Yule and Saturanalia, iirc) and gave them to the Jesus.

2. Because the RCC had control of the calendar.

3. People have been working on abiogenesis for years. Where'e your scientific evidence for "Goddidit"?

4. I vote for neither of your God options especially since you have no evidence for your God being something.

5. Natural processes and beyond that I don't know. If your God does exist, who created him and why do you blame him for the piss-poor job of creating the universe?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Quote:2. The universe has an

Quote:
2. The universe has an exceptionally unfathomable intricate design

I love it when theists shoot their own arguments down.

If it's design is unfathomable, how do you know it was designed?

TBH, I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing. But if this is any indication, there's no point in wasting my time.

On the bright side, I can't deduct points for invalid arguments if I don't read them, so you only lose one point this time around. Smiling

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:Quote:2. The

Quote:
2. The universe has an exceptionally unfathomable intricate design

Then you don't know a single thing about engineering, and how exceptionally poor humans 'would be' designed, if that were the case.

What ignorant people do who don't even reference junior high biology, or in some instances elementary school science and biology is contrast the human shortfalls in evolution of senses like eyesight, hearing, tasting, sensing and smelling, compared to the animal kingdom.

Strength to size ratio? Speed? Agility? Flexibility? Resistance against environmental factors? No comparison between us and how other life forms evolved.

Add to that how other animals evolved to be able to regenerate everything from teeth, to appendages, even internal organs (IIRC) to being able to modulate their physiology, and rapidly mutate and adapt.

 

We got the short end of the 'evolutionary' stick too many times to count, as it turns out.

 

If a god designed us, he really didn't seem to be looking out for our best interests...

 

If getting an 'F' in design means there's a god, then there's a god that isn't very bright if a child can point out how He could have done better.

Being 'fallen' would seem to be the least of our problems.

It's a miracle of nature we didn't go extinct!! 

 

 

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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I will take the first seven

I will take the first seven to start with (it's a long list and I see it was posted 6 years ago so not sure if people are still responding). I will put the answer under the question.   Questions about God... theists answer these!

List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers.

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

They were looking for earthly things. God promised a Kingdom and they were waiting on earthly one Jesus brought a heavenly one (sure you have heard that over and over but there is a reason you hear the same answers)

Also as Jesus said over and over they were Spiritually blind.

 

2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

Cherubims are angels therefore ability to go back to heaven.

3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy

Kind of a silly question but names travel. Someone likes a name so they name something else the same thing.

4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

Not remembering someone does not erase someone's existence. My Grandmother has alzheimer's disease and does not remember me but I still exist.

5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]

If I watch a movie for a second time I know what is coming but I still react emotionally to what I see.


6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

If there is no sin then there is no free will. If you can not choose to do wrong then you never choose to do right. All deserve hell because all have sinned but God has offered salvation to you right now.

 

7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG
ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL
1.) God's love is superlative.
2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self.
3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture.
4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

 

No where in the Bible does it say that God will never punish sin. It calls Him a jealous God, a Holy God, and a righteous God. Punishment for disobedience is throughout the Bible. But once again Romans 6:23 says that the free gift of God is eternal life.


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oy

buddyd wrote:
I will take the first seven to start with (it's a long list and I see it was posted 6 years ago so not sure if people are still responding). I will put the answer under the question.

Not many people come here, recently. 
buddyd wrote:
Questions about God... theists answer these!

List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers.

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

They were looking for earthly things. God promised a Kingdom and they were waiting on earthly one Jesus brought a heavenly one (sure you have heard that over and over but there is a reason you hear the same answers)

Also as Jesus said over and over they were Spiritually blind.

They were waiting for a material one because their prophecies said so...

Also "Jesus said" is not great evidence...

 

 

buddyd wrote:
2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

Cherubims are angels therefore ability to go back to heaven.

Then why have we not found heaven? Sticking out tongue

 

buddyd wrote:
3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy

Kind of a silly question but names travel. Someone likes a name so they name something else the same thing.

Hmmm

 

buddyd wrote:
4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

Not remembering someone does not erase someone's existence. My Grandmother has alzheimer's disease and does not remember me but I still exist.

The answer hasn't much to do with the question(s)...

 

buddyd wrote:
5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]

If I watch a movie for a second time I know what is coming but I still react emotionally to what I see.

Ok, but usually they are weaker. And they weakens every time you watch again that film. Imagine having infinite knowledge, then... Would you care about a stupid life of a stupid human?


buddyd wrote:
 6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

If there is no sin then there is no free will. If you can not choose to do wrong then you never choose to do right. All deserve hell because all have sinned but God has offered salvation to you right now.

There is no free will, in fact. Also there are no absolute right or wrong. That's why it's stupid to have that punishment which is incomparable to the size of the sin.

 

buddyd wrote:
7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG
ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL
1.) God's love is superlative.
2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self.
3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture.
4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

 

No where in the Bible does it say that God will never punish sin. It calls Him a jealous God, a Holy God, and a righteous God. Punishment for disobedience is throughout the Bible. But once again Romans 6:23 says that the free gift of God is eternal life.

Nowhere in the bible it's written that we would have put some copper in the rubber to conduct electricity, but it happened.

Now what if I don't want to play this game of eternal life?


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luca wrote:buddyd wrote:I

luca wrote:

buddyd wrote:
I will take the first seven to start with (it's a long list and I see it was posted 6 years ago so not sure if people are still responding). I will put the answer under the question.

Not many people come here, recently. 
buddyd wrote:
Questions about God... theists answer these!

List of questions about God, religion and the supernatural have been compiled by IG over the years as well as some interesting ones by readers.

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

They were looking for earthly things. God promised a Kingdom and they were waiting on earthly one Jesus brought a heavenly one (sure you have heard that over and over but there is a reason you hear the same answers)

Also as Jesus said over and over they were Spiritually blind.

They were waiting for a material one because their prophecies said so...

Also "Jesus said" is not great evidence...

 

luca wrote:

The question asked why didn't people believe Jesus then I responded with what Jesus said. It wasn't a proof of the existence of Jesus. If you conceded Jesus came and you asked why was He rejected then my answer is that Jesus didn't give the answers they were looking for.

 

buddyd wrote:
2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

Cherubims are angels therefore ability to go back to heaven.

Then why have we not found heaven? Sticking out tongue

 

luca wrote:

Because we are finite and know very little of the universe

buddyd wrote:
3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy

Kind of a silly question but names travel. Someone likes a name so they name something else the same thing.

Hmmm

luca wrote:

 

As I began to look through the list of questions I realized most of them are silly. Very easy to answer but if you aren't looking for an answer but only a fight then it's pointless to ask a question. Just tell the theist you would like to yell at them.

buddyd wrote:
4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

Not remembering someone does not erase someone's existence. My Grandmother has alzheimer's disease and does not remember me but I still exist.

The answer hasn't much to do with the question(s)...

 

luca wrote:

I'm saying they do not remember their lost loved ones but no remembering does not mean that the person doesn't exist. That is what the author suggested in the parenthesis.

[Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

The author made a silly statement to avoid an easy answer.

 

buddyd wrote:
5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]

If I watch a movie for a second time I know what is coming but I still react emotionally to what I see.

Ok, but usually they are weaker. And they weakens every time you watch again that film. Imagine having infinite knowledge, then... Would you care about a stupid life of a stupid human?

 

luca wrote:

There are emotions non the less. God cares because He made that stupid human. It is His handy work.


buddyd wrote:
 6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

If there is no sin then there is no free will. If you can not choose to do wrong then you never choose to do right. All deserve hell because all have sinned but God has offered salvation to you right now.

There is no free will, in fact. Also there are no absolute right or wrong. That's why it's stupid to have that punishment which is incomparable to the size of the sin.

 

buddyd wrote:
7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG
ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL
1.) God's love is superlative.
2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self.
3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture.
4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

 

No where in the Bible does it say that God will never punish sin. It calls Him a jealous God, a Holy God, and a righteous God. Punishment for disobedience is throughout the Bible. But once again Romans 6:23 says that the free gift of God is eternal life.

Nowhere in the bible it's written that we would have put some copper in the rubber to conduct electricity, but it happened.

Now what if I don't want to play this game of eternal life?

Nowhere does it say that He won't punish sin but in verses He says that He will punish sin. Your rebuttals were petty and arguing for argument sake. If God is real then it really doesn't matter if you want to play this game or not, you are his pawn. You have eternal life, the question is will it be in heaven or hell.


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 Poor buddyd,He came here

 Poor buddyd,

He came here to pick a fight and got offended when someone decided to take him up on it...

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote: Poor

jcgadfly wrote:

 Poor buddyd,

He came here to pick a fight and got offended when someone decided to take him up on it...

I didn't mean to come off that way, I came to this thread to answer questions. But I think the replies that I got were arguing for argument sake. If you disagree with my argument that is one thing but trying to find petty things and argue over semantics is another. If you want answers ask questions but if you want to argue just say come here and fight. But I will leave it at that.


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buddyd wrote:jcgadfly

buddyd wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

 Poor buddyd,

He came here to pick a fight and got offended when someone decided to take him up on it...

I didn't mean to come off that way, I came to this thread to answer questions. But I think the replies that I got were arguing for argument sake. If you disagree with my argument that is one thing but trying to find petty things and argue over semantics is another. If you want answers ask questions but if you want to argue just say come here and fight. But I will leave it at that.

It looks to me like the responses to your answers matched your answers. If you're not going to give serious answers it's hard to give serious responses.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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 what do atheists do when

 what do atheists do when they have a loved one in the hospital and the doctors tell you THEY did all they could do?  What do you do NOW???


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Accept that death will occur

araujo03 wrote:

 what do atheists do when they have a loved one in the hospital and the doctors tell you THEY did all they could do?  What do you do NOW???

 

And still not search out witch-doctors, chant incantations or try homeopathy.


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Faith
I think faith is a way of believers try to give God all responsibility about their lives. They don't accept that things just happen. They don't accept that there is no divinity that has the control of the world and the universe

 


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buddyd wrote:IIf there is no

buddyd wrote:

 

If there is no sin then there is no free will. 

 

                                   

                                                       So the saints in Heaven...who retain their free will...can still sin !   

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araujo03 wrote:what do

araujo03 wrote:
what do atheists do when they have a loved one in the hospital and the doctors tell you THEY did all they could do?  What do you do NOW???
 

Say your last goodbyes and make funeral arrangements?

There are no theists on operating tables.

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Araujo03 might not understand where he or she is at the moment

 

Araujo03 wrote:
Joined: 2012-05-01   User is offlineOffline what do atheists do when  do when they have a loved one in the hospital . . . 


    Order!  Order in the court.   Do  Take a good damn close look at page 1, seeing we are doing that, in its' entirity before posting a question, please.  Another 2/3 to go and practically everyone on the forum may soon have answered it. My choice in a question in response to yours is:  What do Atheists do when asked the same question in four separate threads ?  I assume by your behaviour one of two things. A. You are a bot, apparently a programmer was slap too hard as a baby by a Atheistic doctor in the delivery room? Having who knows the reason, decided to write a annoying little program  B. You are a human being (unsure the jury is still out) that has never been on an Online forum. If latter is more correct.  Most 'forums' would not tolerate this strange behaviour of yours, ironically it is your behaviour someone needs to zero in on at this point. To date I count almost two dozen responses..  I very much and honestly am-missing  Gramps  (former member) right about now.  Much is the missing there is. You might consider changing  your  name to this very thing. Forevermore Known as 'the Theist that was formally known as  . .  . .'   

 

 


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There seems to be a detach

There seems to be a detach with people trying to make sense with what they believe on to what is happening in reality.  Yes, with a fair amount of thought in it, you could actually consider going with the idea of living something that is bound by God but that should actually be kept to yourself and not proclaimed with others so as to reduce conflict just to keep things more sane and safe both at the same time.


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Questions About God - Theists Answer These!

I'm not a theist, but I'll answer the first one.

 

1. If Jesus fulifilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognise him as the Messiah?

 

Well, actually they did. The apostles were Jewish. All of the writers of all of the books of the New Testament were Jewish. The religion of Christianity, before it was considered to be a religion in its own right, was viewed as being a sect within Judaism, and there were many Jews (notably St. Paul) who claim they were convinced of his messiahship due to the evidence they claim to have examined first-hand.

 

Of course there were many Jews who did not recognise him (obviously), but your question, being framed the way it is  - 'why didn't the Jews' - has the implicit assumption that ALL of the Jews rejected him, which is not true, so your question kind of answers itself.

 

Next question!


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Question 2:

If Genesis 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims, and the "flaming sword which turned every way"?

 

Why on Earth would you still expect them, after a Great Flood and thousands of years, to still be there? Remember, they were placed there to guard against the return of Adam and Eve, who had been exiled 'to the East', and within the garden was also the 'Tree of Life' which would have granted immortality to them if they had retained access to that tree and eaten of its fruit. When the Great Flood came, the garden was (presumably, although it does not specifically say) washed away: Tree of Life gone = Justification for the Cherubim gone too.

 

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Question 3:

'It's been proven that modern humans originated in Africa...'

 

Um... nope, actually it hasn't. The 'Out of Africa' hypothesis, whilst the currently-accepted explanation for the place of origin of the human race, remains just that - a hypothesis. The evidence gathered thus far indicates this is the place to place one's bets, but no one has 'proven' that this is so. There is just as much chance that humanity had its origins in Asia, which is where the garden presumably was judging by the mention in Genesis of the Euphrates (and, in some translations of the Bible, the Tigris as well) rivers which, by the way, are reasonably close to Africa anyway.

 

'Most of which no one can find'. The Genesis account mentions a confluence of those four rivers, the KJV mentions the Euphrates and three other obscure names (Pison, Gihon and Hiddekel), whilst the NIV also mentions the Tigris in place of the Hiddekel. The rivers we know were in modern-day Iraq (Mesopotamia), and it is here where civilisation itself begins. Although a precise location, based upon these details, cannot be determined, that is only to be expected if one believes that the subsequent Great Flood significantly altered the topography of the Middle (or more precisely, Near) East.

 

These questions are REALLY easy! Smiling - Next!

 


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Question 4:

 

'How can Heaven be utter bliss, when the people they care about are burning in Hell?'

 

The actual evidence for a literal Hell of eternal torment is actually quite slim in the New Testament, and positively non-existent in the Old. Some (actually many) Christians believe in those twin concepts, but many also (ex. Jehovah's Witnesses) don't. Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament actually has the writer of that book stating quite categorically that death is the end of everything for all time for each of us, which is in line with current secular views. The brief passages that mention 'Hell' or 'Hellfire' are brief and (wide) open to interpretation, the context within which they occur not being very helpful in determining whether or not the concept of Hell should be taken literally. My understanding, based upon what I have read, is that Hell is the symbolic representation of the final annihilation of the body and soul of the deceased; ex. 'be not afraid of those who can destroy the body, but be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell' (or words to that effect - quoting from memory here) strongly suggests total annihilation. Does it not?

 

Do I get a prize for answering all of these questions? Smiling

 

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Questions 5, 6 and 7

 

Question 5: 'How can God have emotions if He is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent et cetera?' Simple answer: He can't have emotions. Not as we understand 'emotions' anyway. What you have in the Old Testament is basically the story of one nation (the Israelites) trying to come to grips with, and fathom, the workings of nature, the hostility of neighbouring tribes, and the eccentricity of their tyrannical rulers, but most importantly of all their perceived special relationship with what they understood to be God.

 

Now of course any literal interpretation of the various deeds of a God who gets angry, or asks for Isaac to be sacrificed on an altar, is no God at all, and that much is obvious, but it needs to be kept in mind that every understanding of, or conception of, God that has ever been put forth by man has been tainted (in some instances, horribly so) by anthropomorphism. A concept like 'God', if we are honest with ourselves, may and perhaps would have 'traits' that are transcendent (i.e. omniscience and omnipotence, to name two) but in order to properly 'define' such an idea would go against everything that 'God' must be; that is, he/she/it cannot be pigeonholed, categorised or limited by our own (very limited) understanding of what he/she/it should be. Am I making any sense thus far?

 

The ancient Israelites were primitive nomads who had virtually zero understanding of the cosmos, and therefore they attributed to the God they worshipped every event of any significance that they could not fully comprehend which, in hindsight, was a mistake, because now we have a book (The Bible) that contains stories of events that seem to us to be implausible. The story about 'God' persecuting Abimelech, the King of Gerar, in a dream because he had snatched Abrams wife, for example, comes across to us moderns as being silly, but within the limited comprehension of the tribes of the time offered a connection to what they perceived to be the divine acting within nature. That is, the story is a subjective interpretation of an event that could not be explained within the accepted worldview of the time, and so the author of Genesis wrote that 'God became angry with Abimelech' and that is the reason, in this case, why a historical event (the inexplicable inability of the women of his palace to have children) occurred.

 

Question 6: 'Why would God create Hell...?' I've answered this one in my response to question four.

 

Question 7: Another 'Hell' question. Already answered.

 

This is fun Smiling These questions are just SO easy!


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Questions 8, 9, & 10

 

Question 8: Muslim astronaut on Mars. Which direction does he pray? That's obvious - in the direction of planet Earth, on which is located the Kaaba. As the Earth moves in relation to Mars, so would his direction of prayer. The reason the Muslim astronaut in Earth orbit had a problem was simply because, being in orbit, the direction that he had to face was constantly changing, and a proper orientation could not be established for any appreciable length of time.

 

Question 9: What you are asking here is that God become a stage magician. 'Hey, look at me, I'm real because I can reattach severed heads!' I mean, - REALLY! Would YOU believe a 'god' who, in order to 'prove' his existence to us lowly creatures, had to stoop to cheap theatrics? I wouldn't. 'Until they do, I'll remain an atheist' you say. Well, then I guess you will.

 

Question 10: 'Why does God entrust the spreading of his word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself?' Um, what exactly did you have in mind here? Are you thinking that God should arrive on a Chariot of Fire from the clouds, thunder with a loud voice 'Hear ye, hear ye, listen up folks, this book here - I call it 'The Bible' (catchy name, huh?) I want you all to read'? This is just speculation on my part, but perhaps using 'sinners' to spread 'His word' was the original intention all along, for reasons that I can't explain. Perhaps a Christian here might have an answer to this one.

 

Anyway, I'll answer the other questions some other time. I'm getting tired, need to do the dishes, take a shower, watch a documentary.