What would convince you of a God(s)'s existance

Cpt_pineapple
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What would convince you of a God(s)'s existance

You keep asking for proof of a God, what type of proof would be required?

 

Notice how I said 'a God(s)'s' not neccesarly the Christian God.


pariahjane
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There have been many

There have been many threads regarding this issue.  I believe a few members have also written rather detailed essays on this too, though I could be wrong about that. 

 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


pariahjane
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There have been many

[MOD EDIT - duplicate post removed]

 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


Cpt_pineapple
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pariahjane wrote: There

pariahjane wrote:

There have been many threads regarding this issue.  I believe a few members have also written rather detailed essays on this too, though I could be wrong about that. 

 

 

Links?

I reject your reality and substitute my own


MattShizzle
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I'd have to see direct

I'd have to see direct evidence.


mindspread
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   Healing an amputee

 

 Healing an amputee would be a good start.

 

http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/


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Counter question:    What

Counter question:

   What would it take for you not to believe?


magilum
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What would it take for you

What would it take for you to believe in Vishnu?


Cpt_pineapple
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BGH wrote: Counter

BGH wrote:

Counter question:

   What would it take for you not to believe?

 

If someone answers my question with a counter question without answering the original question. That'll convince me

 

Serious answer: When science fills the 'gaps'

 

Yes I am a man of 'God of gaps'

I reject your reality and substitute my own


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the question i would have

the question i would have to ask is why does it matter to you? even if god appeared before me and spoke to me and showed me miracles, i still wouldn't bow to him.

there's a list a mile long of horrific events and tragedies that, if god did indeed exist, he should have prevented.  at the absolute minimum god should have stopped his own priests from sexually abusing children. why would i ever worship a supposedly all knowing, all seeing, all powerful deity that sat idly by while a child was being raped by one of his own servants in one his own churches?

it's disgusting that christians continue pray to "god" after these events came to light. by doing so they are essentially endorsing a supreme pedophyle.

 

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens


pariahjane
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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
pariahjane wrote:

There have been many threads regarding this issue.  I believe a few members have also written rather detailed essays on this too, though I could be wrong about that. 

Links?

Ok, I admit it, my computer skills aren't exactly that great.  I don't think I imbed them probably or something.  Can anyone else help? 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


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god, would convince me of

god, would convince me of the existence of god.  that's about it, b/c if it was god he would know how to convince me.

No Gods, Know Peace.


caseagainstfaith
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Cpt_pineapple wrote: You

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You keep asking for proof of a God, what type of proof would be required?

 Here is one possibility:  stop the earth from turning for some amount of time, then start it up again, with no ill effects on anything.  After all, God supposedly has done that before, per the Bible.  So why not again?

 Ninjatux's answer of God would know what I would need to be convinced is a good answer as well. It might sound like a cop-out, but, really, its not.  It is prefectly rational for me to doubt the unlikely.  Even if I'm wrong, it is still rational!  For example, there are good reasons to doubt alien abduction stories.  If, in the unlikely event that some are real, it is still reasonable for me to doubt it.  I don't sit around asking myself "gee, what would it take to convince myself that alien abductions are real?"  Probably neither do you.  As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary events require extraordinary evidence".

 


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Serious answer: When science fills the 'gaps'

 Yes I am a man of 'God of gaps'

Why fill the "gaps" with anything? "I don't know" is a valid, acceptable answer.

 

I can tell you what WOULD NOT convince me of god... "gaps". Just because there are these so-called gaps does not mean god is there. 


Cpt_pineapple
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BGH wrote: Why fill the

BGH wrote:
Why fill the "gaps" with anything? "I don't know" is a valid, acceptable answer.

 

I can tell you what WOULD NOT convince me of god... "gaps". Just because there are these so-called gaps does not mean god is there. 

 

It doesn't mean that he isn't there. Yes I know you probably heard that millions of times, but doesn't it make my believe as rational as yours?

I reject your reality and substitute my own


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No offense, capn, but you

No offense, capn, but you know that the "god of the gaps" is just a variation on a logical fallacy called argument from ignorance, right?

I mean, you're admitting, clear as the nose on my face, that you believe in god because you accept a logical fallacy.

And you wonder why we don't believe?

Nevertheless, you ask a legitimate question, and I believe you do deserve better than a socratic answer.

Naturally, you've heard the saying, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." Well, in a way, that should be self-evident. To put it another way, nothing that could happen naturally is evidence of god. Nothing. Period. Ever. What would be evidence? Something that so completely defied science that it could only have happened illogically. A documented, medically verified account of a priest praying for a double amputee who immediately grew both legs back in less than a minute... that would be a damn good start. Or, maybe if all the guns and rockets in the entire world started exploding into showers of daisies instead of killing people, and a big banner spread across the sky and said, "I am god, and I will not allow you to kill each other again." That would be pretty good proof.

Here's something else you have to consider, capn. Even if someone documents something so irrefutable that it can only point to the existence of a supernatural being, how do you know which one it is unless he happens to leave a signed copy of a pay stub? How do you know it's not Allah? Or, heaven forbid, maybe everybody's had it wrong all along, and nobody's ever heard of this god before?! Maybe god doesn't care that people believe in lots of other deities. Maybe earth is just one bacterial culture in a line of cosmic petri dishes a billion galaxies long, and god hasn't bothered to check in for the last 30,000 years since we learned to make axes!

The point is, capn, that your god, just like everybody else's god, is believed in out of faith, tradition, and ignorance. So, what we come back to is that believing in a god is something that just doesn't make much sense. I'm happy to answer your question of what it would take, even though there's a great possibility that even now, you are shaking your head, wondering why I couldn't just answer you with a straight answer.

That's the thing. This is a completely honest, straight answer. It would take, literally, a miracle! Something that absolutely could not happen naturally.

It's not a dumb question to ask, capn. It does, however, beg the question.... "Why don't you disbelieve in your god, since the concept is nonsensical?"

And... in defense of other posters, it does beg the question, "What would it take for you to disbelieve?"

I think if you examine things critically, you will find a double standard, if not hypocricy. In other words, I, and most other atheists are perfectly willing to believe in anything that is proven to exist. (Or, disbelieve in something for which there is no evidence! I suspect few people on this board believe in the Loch Ness Monster, for instance.) However, you are unwilling to even consider the possibility that you are mistaken and that your god doesn't exist. Why? It's different for everybody, but most commonly, it's fear and ignorance.

Have you read Darwin? What about Sagan, or Hawkings? Do you know what the evidence for evolution is? Really... do you know? Have you ever studied logic? Even a little? Have you ever tried to work out your belief in god as a logical equation? Are you afraid to try?

 

If superior creatures from space ever visit earth, the first question they will ask, in order to assess the level of our civilization, is: 'Have they discovered evolution yet?' -- Richard Dawkins


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: BGH

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:
Why fill the "gaps" with anything? "I don't know" is a valid, acceptable answer.

I can tell you what WOULD NOT convince me of god... "gaps". Just because there are these so-called gaps does not mean god is there. 

It doesn't mean that he isn't there. Yes I know you probably heard that millions of times, but doesn't it make my believe as rational as yours?

are you comparing the belief of "I don't know" to well god did it until otherwise found out.  Why are you putting something that doesn't have an explaination behind things you already don't understand.

Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
Theist: You hate god.
Me: I hate your god just as much as you hate it's creator.
Theist: God doesn't have a crea... oh I get it.
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.


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"..but doesn't it make my

"..but doesn't it make my believe as rational as yours?"

 

i don't think there's anything remotely rational about belief in a higher power. if an adult friend told you they sincerely believed that a little fairy went around exchanging coins for children's teeth, would you say that's completely rational? or would you recommend couseling? 

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens


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How about testable

How about testable reproducable evidence. You know, the stuff that proves stuff exists. We don't believe simply because, if something has no evidence it is ignorant to believe in such a thing, you just take the position "It might exist, however no one should believe until proven true"  stance.  You however take the ignorant I want an imaginary friend for everything, just because someone else can not explain it at the moment. God is not an explaination for anything, it's a straw which you love you grab and hold on to.

"When I die I shall be content to vanish into nothingness.... No show, however good, could conceivably be good forever.... I do not believe in immortality, and have no desire for it." ~H.L. Mencken

Thank god i'm a atheist!


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: BGH

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:
Why fill the "gaps" with anything? "I don't know" is a valid, acceptable answer.

 

I can tell you what WOULD NOT convince me of god... "gaps". Just because there are these so-called gaps does not mean god is there. 

 

It doesn't mean that he isn't there. Yes I know you probably heard that millions of times, but doesn't it make my believe as rational as yours?

Actually, it's intellectually dishonest. The problem with gaps is that you could fill them with anything, and as long as there is a lack of knowledge, you can't be shown wrong. Why not fill the gaps with a great wizard, or alien warlords? To claim that you have an answer to a question that cannot yet be answered is just a lie. The only thing to claim when knowledge fails is 'I don't know'.

It's only the fairy tales they believe.


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"Yes I am a man of 'God of

"Yes I am a man of 'God of gaps'"

 

Almost everything we know today through the power and knowledge of science was a 'gap' 50, 100, 1000 years ago.

 

'God' used to control and rule things that we now understand to be merely scientific processes.

 

Your gaps are getting smaller, and the modern image of 'God' is a pale comparison to what he was 2000 years ago. 


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Maragon wrote:   Your gaps

Maragon wrote:
 

Your gaps are getting smaller, and the modern image of 'God' is a pale comparison to what he was 2000 years ago.

 

Try 12 minutes ago... 

No Gods, Know Peace.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: You

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You keep asking for proof of a God, what type of proof would be required?

Why do you think there's a god?

 

That fact that you cannot prove god’s non-existence is inconsequential because we cannot prove the non-existence of anything.


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Since it's impossible to

Since it's impossible to disprove something, especially an idea outlined as something inherently unfalsifiable, literally every proposition ever conceived joins the “god of the gaps” in the pantheon of indeterminate possibilities. It's not a particularly satisfying position.


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pariahjane

pariahjane wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Links?

Ok, I admit it, my computer skills aren't exactly that great. I don't think I imbed them probably or something. Can anyone else help?

pariahjane, just copy and paste the URL into the comment.  Be sure there are a couple of spaces before the URL and that you press the enter or "new line" key after it. 


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I'd first need to understand

I'd first need to understand what God is and then why it is necessary to believe in him. It's difficult to talk about what would be evidence of God until we understand exactly what God is.

It is my suspicion that most theists don't really understand what they mean by the word 'God' either...


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Here are a couple of

Here are a couple of previous threads addressing this.  In the 2nd one, the guy who started it pretty much disappeared after people started giving examples.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/5574

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/5098

»Why the Bible is Bullshit

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Cpt_pineapple wrote: You

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You keep asking for proof of a God, what type of proof would be required?

 

Notice how I said 'a God(s)'s' not neccesarly the Christian God.

I'd say he'd need to drop out of the sky and right into my backyard while I'm having my morning smoke.  Yeah, that'd do it for me.

Honestly, anything would prove the existance of god to me because all I'm getting right now is the alternative: nothing. 

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: You

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You keep asking for proof of a God, what type of proof would be required?

Notice how I said 'a God(s)'s' not neccesarly the Christian God.

I don't ask for proof of god. I'm still waiting for 2 things:

1) For anyone's idea of a god to make sense. None do.

2) Assuming some god-idea makes sense, I'm waiting for the first shred of evidence even hinting at the existence of the  thing.

If I had some evidence, I might consider the existence of god an interesting question. That's right: I do not think the question "does god exist" is even an interesting question yet! Then on finding the issue to be interesting, I would search for more evidence. After this I would temporarily settle on a likely determiniation from my own perspective.

All of this would have to happen before I would even begin to entertain the notion of needing "proof."


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: BGH

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
BGH wrote:
Why fill the "gaps" with anything? "I don't know" is a valid, acceptable answer.

 

I can tell you what WOULD NOT convince me of god... "gaps". Just because there are these so-called gaps does not mean god is there.

It doesn't mean that he isn't there. Yes I know you probably heard that millions of times, but doesn't it make my believe as rational as yours?

No, in fact it doesn't.  


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As said by Jesus  (Matthew

As said by Jesus  (Matthew 17:20):

"For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. "

I think that might do it for me.  Contrary to this statement, no mountains have ever been moved directly from one place to another!  And don't give me any crap about compression of continental plates causing mountains to move cause we both know that's not what I mean!

Dear Flying Spaghetti Monster,
Let us pray that all the hungry children in the world will be fed and peace be spread throughout the entire world. Amen.
*Incoherent speaking*
What do you mean it is not your will to feed the children of the world?!


Cpt_pineapple
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Quote: As said by Jesus

Quote:

As said by Jesus  (Matthew 17:20):

"For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. "

I think that might do it for me.  Contrary to this statement, no mountains have ever been moved directly from one place to another! 

 

 

Well there's compression of continental plates causing mountains to move.

 

Quote:
 

 And don't give me any crap about compression of continental plates causing mountains to move cause we both know that's not what I mean!

 

 

ahhh crap.

I reject your reality and substitute my own