Thoughts on the state of "atheist vs. theist"
Offline This is troubling me, and I think it is why I keep coming back here. I am a Christian, therefore, my arguments come from that Christian worldview. Oftentimes I have simply reiterated a Christian point, and then, to my surprise several people attack what I have said, called me a liar, arrogant, rude, prideful, etc. And I’m left wondering, what on earth did I say that incited so much anger? Truth is, I am a caring person who wants to improve and make a positive impact on the world. I love animals, I respect the earth, I think we need to take better care of it. If I’ve harmed someone, I want to make amends, etc. So, I honestly do not understand where your anger comes from. Is it simply because I don't agree with you?
Taking my Christianity out of the equation, I am a person, I have opinions, I feel strongly about my opinions because they have been formed from decades of searching, thinking, turning things over in my mind. I am no different than you, in that respect. It just so happens that you came to different conclusions than me. But, I can tell, you feel equally strongly about your beliefs and feel I would be better off if I were atheist. You know that I feel you would have a richer experience in this life if you believed in God, not necessarily even the Christian God. So, tho our opinions are different, the way we are approach each other is really not so different. In light of that, what I do not understand is why we cannot converse like adults, hear each other’s view points, accept that we are both attempting to influence the other side with those view points, and let go of all the meanness and personal put downs?
I don’t know who here is American, but what I see happening in this country and throughout the world is deeply troubling. There is a divide growing between the secular and religious communities, and the two need to come back to the center and start communicating better in order to make some honest compromises. We have to live in this world together. You are never going to eradicate the worship of God, I am never going to get everyone to see the need to worship God. Most likely, you are not going to deconvert me, nor am I going to convert you. So, can we, instead start listening, and refrain from judging others ideas as stupid, baseless, juvenile?
Also, I do not feel the “delusional” label you have placed on theists is going to get us anywhere positive. I can just as easily call you delusional. The fact is, you are not in my brain, I am not in yours. You have not had my experiences, I have not had yours. So, you can no more honestly judge me delusional than I can judge you.
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The science of biochemistry, JCE. I included the names of the books if you would like to look into it further.
I do not understand how I have betrayed your trust. I have made every attempt at being honest and open. It is simply becoming apparent to me that this is a mine field for people of my theistic persuasion. You have made it so that theists must walk on eggshells. I offered that information to Iruka to empower him if he so chooses. The fact that he is diabetic points to a sugar issue more. Further, people with sugar issues do horribly on low (complex) carb, because it does not support serotonin production. How do I know? Because I have tried every eating plan on the face of the planet, and this is the one that works for me given my genetic predisposition. However, no doctor is going to give me or Iruka information. It is new information, which doctors are not taught. There are many reasons for this, one being that that sugar industry is a billion dollar industry. Neither the corporate world nor the politicians who get paid off are willing to support this info getting out. So, I felt compelled to share it, knowing that if his experience has been anything like mine regarding mental health...if he wishes for true healing, he can possibly do something about it. I do not know why this knowledge transfer has incited so much anger. But, it is just an indication to me that we, truly, are unable to have any discussion without hate intervening.
Oh boy, now we got conspiracy theories. The medical establishment doesn't cover things up. If it's published as a book that's sold rather than in a peer reviewed scientific journal, it's almost certainly bunk.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
you pissed eveyone off, b/c you did exactly what we hate the most; prostelyzation. Can you not understand that it is insulting? Can you not understand that when other people (not necessarily myself) spend time to construct valid logical arguments and you completely ignore them that it might upset someone? Way to be sensitive to the world around you there pedro...
No Gods, Know Peace.
Um, no, that's not what they do. They trying to engage in a valid argument with you. But I guess us atheists are just vultures who are out to get you theists, is that it? And you just insulted me as well. Job well done, Sugarfree!
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Now that I have cussed at two people, I believe it is time for me to take my leave in order to protect me from myself.
You're full of it, sugar. I was very polite when I began our exchange in your first thread. It is your repeated question-begging, special-pleading, emotional arguments that get frustrating, and betray your closed mind. Even now, you still bleat "jesus" in answer to pretty much everything, despite the fact we have shown you over and over that is a worthless, circular argument. If your thoughts are not capable of extending beyond that, I'm not sure why you're still here.
[edit - don't want to get left out of the damnation!]
Damn me too sugar! Damn me too! You can even tie me up and use the whip!
There are no theists on operating tables.
This is the science of bullshit.
What if Iruka had taken your advice and gone into diabetic shock from an interaction? Keep your fucking opinions to yourself. I tried to engage you in respectful dialog and had to remind you three times that I was waiting for an answer while your ran around and flung potshots at those you felt were being "mean". Grow the fuck up! If someone is being mean, ignore them. Here is some medical advice for you: Go to a doctor and get something to help you fucking focus!
How longthis time? A week? A month?
When you come back bring better arguments and address other posters comment and you might not get so "crapped" on.
Whooot! I just passed 666 posts! LOL!
Congratulations!! Sorry I missed it : ( I was gonna bake you a cake. I love cake.
I haven't read through this whole thread. I read some of the beginning, and some of the end. You seemed reasonably friendly in the beginning, got more aggrivated as the thread went on. When I participate in theist forums, I tend to feel "crapped on" too. Theists and atheists seem to look at the world very differently, and annoying the other is "par for the course". Most theists don't have a "good time" on atheist boards, or vise-versa.
www.caseagainstfaith.com
Yes. Sugarfree had a post near the top of page 5 with an openning <em> tag and no corresponding closing </em> tag. Because web browsers suck, they will often allow this unterminated tag to keep going to the end of the page, causing all the text for the rest of page 5 to be like this, including text that isn't part of any post. Sucks, doesn't it? When I have cause to mention it, I remind people to remember to close their font and em tags. I kinda wished the forum software enforced tag closing within each post, but that would probably be a lot of work.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
I would say that we are more like sharks that swim in when the blood hits the water. I bet that if the theists on this site won their arguments they would stay.
and Iruka is a girl.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Sugar,
You just can't resist playing the martyr, can you?
You just put it together with the "I'm taking my ball and going home" gambit.
It's starting to get warmer. Doesn't that hair shirt itch?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
But you'd think that with god on their side and all, they'd be able to take it.
There are no theists on operating tables.
If you still are around, I wanted to respond to a few of your other points. As far as being "delusional", that is generally a stronger word than I would use for theists. Its "indoctrination" ("brain-washing"
to some degree, you wouldn't believe what you believe if you hadn't been indoctrinated in it. But I think "delusional" is a bit stronger than I would prefer to use.
And, it is also true that neither of us can get inside the other's head. So, it is indeed true that I cannot know what you think, what you've personally experienced and what not. Never-the-less, we all make assessments of what "probably" it is true about other people. If someone came up to you and said they are the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, you really can't KNOW, FOR SURE, they are wrong. You can simply make the best estimation given what evidence you have, and conclude the person is most likely not correct.
www.caseagainstfaith.com
Oh! Meeeee tooooo! I wanna be damned! Oh wait, I already did that to myself. Shoot. Oh well, I don't like whips anyway.
Eh, I get the feeling that niceties don't work on Sugar. I tried being nice and all of a sudden, wham! I'm blood thirsty vulture. Sigh. At least I'm in good company.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
um...being depressed and suicidal does not teach you about biochemistry...if it did I know several people who would have Nobel prrizes by now...you claimed an understanding you did not possess, sorry the truth hurts...
No Gods, Know Peace.
I feel like I have a strange version of street cred now...
Initiation test over - now you just have to get RRS tattooed to your forehead. Hey, you got damned and you didn't even have to go through Susan's thread to get it! LOL
I'll get to that, give me time...give me time...
No Gods, Know Peace.
Wow. I've been on this forum for almost a year and I've never been damned. I'm impressed, NinjaTux.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
I consider it a skill...
Sugarfree: if you are still reading this... you are being extremely hateful and judgmental. This place isn't a mine field for theists... I have been sharing my views and no one has gone off on me like they do on you. Perhaps you should consider that it isn't you religion that angers everyone (even me..). Perhaps your arrogance, your judgment, and your blatant disregard for anyone else is what is pissing us off... quit assuming you know so fucking much about everyone else's lives. You aren't being picked on, you are being an ass.
Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.
oooohhhh, ice burn......
This thread, is clean.
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."
Why, Gauche! Thank you for noticing.
And yes, I was female the last time I checked.
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Damn you, too MattShizzle. Forgive me, God, I don't care if you do go to hell.
Look how little it takes to make you contradict your supposed morals. You're so weak.
You're full of it, sugar. I was very polite when I began our exchange in your first thread.
I wanted to add that my first reply to sugarfree, in her “convince me” thread was simply a plain relating of personal experience. Her reaction was to proselytize and encourage me to go to a honky mall church like she does. From that point she was already pushing the traumatic church experience theory of atheist motivation. Since then it's only been more insistence on the same refuted points.
Geez. When I finally got to this thread there were well over 100 posts I had to read. (OK. I admit to skimming some of them. Guese whose!)
I haven't had anyone damn me yet. I feel unloved.
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I won't do it..........but heeeeee will:
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."
Damn you Susan...and your little Bowler too.....hiii...hiii...hiii...hii(witch laughter is hard to do online)...
No Gods, Know Peace.
Thanks guys. I feel much better now.
[EDIT - Charlton Heston is going to damn me, too? Cool.]
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Well, I'm not surprised. Once again, a hypocritical theist's true colors are there for all the world to see. Self-righteousness reigns supreme in the mind of a theist.
sugarfree, your special diet ain't working. You're behaving irrationally and being abusive. Maybe you need to tweak those sugars and carbs, eh? Who needs Prozac when you have potatoes?
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You know, you might be onto something here. I don't think you belong on a debate forum if you can only argue from emotion and if you're constantly at the mercy of your own emotions.
I would urge you to seek actual help from a real professional. Jesus can't help your chemical inbalances. I'm serious, sugarfree. I have to monitor my own condition constantly and keep in constant contact with health care providers. Even if you keep your faith, don't you think Jesus would want you to see a doctor?
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There would be little danger of that. My bullshit detector gets stronger every year I remain a skeptic. I can usually spot a scam.
As Dan Barker wrote in his song: "Pride goeth so the Christians say, before a mighty fall. But me, I've never felt that way. I never stand so tall as when I say I'm proud to be an atheist, oh yes! It helps me stand for so much more and fall for so much less."
As for the rest of your post, jce, I concur. I really do think sugarfree's "diet" isn't doing its job. She's emotionally all over the map. Having been there myself, I can spot the warning signs. I could be wrong, but I think sugarfree could use some professional help ironing out the emotional roller coaster. It is not a fun ride.
sugarfree, at the very least take a break from the forums and see your doctor.
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Is this still a problem? I could close the tag, if so. (My browser is displaying fine.)
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Respectfully, you could consider taking some matters of your mental health into your own hands:
http://www.radiantrecovery.com/chemistry.htm
She's like a retarded energizer bunny, she won't stop....and fuck there's a battery shoved up her ass....
No Gods, Know Peace.
I monitor my condition with a psychiatrist, Iruka. Jesus cannot heal my imbalances. He can guide me to truth and show me ways in which I can help myself. You can put your faith in doctors if you wish, or you can, at the same time take some matters into your own hands. The SARP program is for diabetics also. It is perfectly catered towards diabetics. It is an eating program, no medication involved, therefore, my sharing of the knowledge was in now way illegal. Caution, the type of unruly behavior displayed here is not allowed on that site, because it is a healing site, not a destructive one as this one is. BTW: Yes, I need to get the hell away from this site, because it is absolutely damaging to one's biochemical system, especially those, like me, who are in the process of healing from lifelong addiction.
Rather than judging my emotional health you should consider the source of your own emotional outbursts, Iruka, like why you feel it necessary to yell at minors who are simply trying to share their faith with you.
If you are ever interested, check out the link I just posted. It is up to you. Now, that is all I have to say to you.
If heaven is full of people like sugarfree, I think I'd prefer hell.
Rather funny you replace a "chemical addiction" as you call it, with a sky daddy addiction. Do you not see a pattern? I am going to give you some medical advice now: Take responsibility for your own actions and quit being a fucking martar!
Awww, that's a pic of Heston's character from Planet of the Apes -- "You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."
Sugarfree, while I'm sure you're just trying to help, you're truly making matters much worse for yourself. Everyone is annoyed already and you've been repeatedly asked to not give medical advice but you still insist on doing so. When you push people, people will push back, Sugarfree. I suggest you stop what you're doing.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
For anyone who missed the play or left at intermission due to boredom, let me see if I can provide a synopsis for the last few days:
Act I
Sugarfree derails blackmath’s thread with yet another off-topic bullshit statement. She gets called on it by several people and in the process discovers my gender. Unfortunately her argument was so crappy that even my uterus could not agree and it doesn’t even have a brain. She then proceeds to do the ‘Theist Shuffle’ and performs mental gymnastics and back peddling to entertain us while pissing off large groups of adoptees and their families.
Act II
Sugarfree starts her own thread complaining about unfair treatment (dramatic music for this part). Others remind her that she has yet to produce a valid argument or any credible facts to support her statements. But we try to play along and make nice as she runs around leaving shit-bombs to people she feels have offended her. She is accused of trying to win converts versus engaging in discussion and debate. This results in more crying from sugarfree. This act reveals that she does, in fact, have health issues and that god is sitting on her shoulder(?). The climax of this act occurs when she decides to dole out medical advice to one of the members who has attempted to open up dialog with her. Not only are her attempts misguided, she once again displays gender confusion and gets bitch-slapped by Iruka. The sharks circle when first blood is drawn.
Finale
To no one’s surprise, sugarfree announces that she is wounded beyond words and can no longer continue talking to us. She picks up her deflated ball and goes home. She is left bewildered by the cruelty of being misunderstood and we are left bewildered by the amount of time we have collectively wasted on her.
(Surprisingly, the pixie on her shoulder never told her to avoid playing with the dirty, mean atheists. In fact, the pixie has had nothing to say this entire time. Perhaps the pixie is a skeptic and was waiting for a valid argument too.)
If I have left anything out, please let me know.
Thank you jce. I really didn't want to wade through this thread to see what was going on.