FUCK ME THIS IS FUCKING DUMB

SAVAGE
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http://www.peeringintodarkness.com/forum/index.php?topic=3361.0

This is in refernce to the raping of the virgins in numbers:

Quote:
SAVAGE,

You are drawing incorrect conclusions. You cannot assume the Jews were rapists simply because they kept the virgins for themselves. Remember the Lord God that delivered the enemies of Israel into their hands? They didn't. They had laws to live by. They risked loosing their lives as well as the lives of their family if they were to rape a young girl. I would imagine that a woman would want to prove her importance to her new husband by producing children for him. The ability to bare children was a status symbol of sorts back then.

Don't assign the same morals to the Israelites as Godless peoples throughout the ages possesse

I mean fuck me, the girls gave themselves freely, what a load of shit.

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MattShizzle
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That is fucking stupid. :roll:


jester700
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Yeah, and even the guy's EXPLANATION is bullshit. Figure: all you had to do after raping a chick was pay her bride price to her dad. He could refuse, in which case you had to pay the price and go your merry way without a bride. Now, if dad is DEAD, this doesn't count, does it? So you just claim her as a wife. Note that there was nothing against many wives, either, so you could keep as many as you could bang.

Also note that nowhere in this is the woman's feelings considered. Very fucking moral.


qwak
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not to mention that it's plain as day in the bible that they didn't even consider non-israelites to be actual people. Therefore I doubt they would have considered any laws to apply to dealings with those people. (you know, since they were killing them and all, and it does kinda say thou shalt not kill)

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KingDavid8
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You do know that the ones being spared here were kids, not grown women, right? In ANE culture, girls were married pretty much as soon as they hit puberty. There wouldn't be any virgins of adult age. This had nothing to do with raping women, it was about adopting the female children.

But if you really, really want to read this as being about rape, go right ahead.

David


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KingDavid8 wrote:
...it was about adopting the female children.

Who were immiediately raped and put in a concubine.

It wasn't about adopting anyone, it was about getting more baby making machines. No better than cave men sacking a cave in the middle of the night and carrying the women off after slaughtering all the men.

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I for one am not about to give a moral benefit of the doubt to a tribe who murder a whole city of people (and their animals), including women, children, and babies. There's as much reason to think they're considering pedophilia as adoption.


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KingDavid8 wrote:
You do know that the ones being spared here were kids, not grown women, right? In ANE culture, girls were married pretty much as soon as they hit puberty. There wouldn't be any virgins of adult age. This had nothing to do with raping women, it was about adopting the female children.

But if you really, really want to read this as being about rape, go right ahead.

David

Convenient and disingenious of you, KD8. They spared young, pre-pubescent girls (according to your probably correct interpretation of the bible), and slaughtered all the males and non-virgin women! What a merciful, loving god! Wow, I can't POSSIBLY imagine them putting virgin girls to sexual uses, can you, KD8? Can the thought have possibly penetrated (no double entendre intended) the biblical bullshit of indoctrination you seem to have so willingly accepted to cloud your reason?


KingDavid8
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Atheist_Scathe wrote:

Convenient and disingenious of you, KD8. They spared young, pre-pubescent girls (according to your probably correct interpretation of the bible), and slaughtered all the males and non-virgin women! What a merciful, loving god!

Since this was a group of people intent on wiping out the Israelites altogether, fighting back was quite justified.

Keep in mind that the ANE world was one in which survival wasn't exactly easy. The Israelites had a lot of people in the area who wanted to wipe them off the face of the Earth. If they'd kept the grown women after having killed their husbands, these women would be quite hateful of the Israelites, and, if they had kids with the Israelites, would raise these kids to hate their own tribe, and we all know what the Bible has to say about a house divided against itself. And if they'd just kept them around but didn't touch them, the women would still be finding ways to cause trouble for their captors. Can you imagine killing a man in war, and then forcing his widow to live with you? Another option would be to spare the female adults and let them walk off by themselves. In that area, they would be defenseless and easy prey for other tribes, eventually enslaved and/or raped and killed.

Quote:

Wow, I can't POSSIBLY imagine them putting virgin girls to sexual uses, can you, KD8?

Not when they're children and there's no evidence that pedophilia was an issue for the Israelites.

Quote:
Can the thought have possibly penetrated (no double entendre intended) the biblical bullshit of indoctrination you seem to have so willingly accepted to cloud your reason?

I'm not the one assuming that the only possible reason for sparing female children was that they wanted to screw them. Is it hypothetically possible? Perhaps. But without some kind of reason to suppose it's so (other than a pressing desire to find ways to hate God), I wouldn't assume it.

David


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KingDavid8 wrote:

Since this was a group of people intent on wiping out the Israelites altogether, fighting back was quite justified.

Keep in mind that the ANE world was one in which survival wasn't exactly easy. The Israelites had a lot of people in the area who wanted to wipe them off the face of the Earth. If they'd kept the grown women after having killed their husbands, these women would be quite hateful of the Israelites, and, if they had kids with the Israelites, would raise these kids to hate their own tribe, and we all know what the Bible has to say about a house divided against itself. And if they'd just kept them around but didn't touch them, the women would still be finding ways to cause trouble for their captors. Can you imagine killing a man in war, and then forcing his widow to live with you? Another option would be to spare the female adults and let them walk off by themselves. In that area, they would be defenseless and easy prey for other tribes, eventually enslaved and/or raped and killed.

Quote:
Not when they're children and there's no evidence that pedophilia was an issue for the Israelites.

Well letme get this straight then, from what you've just posted. Killing a woman's husband would breed hatred in her towards the killers. Right, gotcha, pretty much common sense right there....but then, killing a child's parents wouldn't make them less than fond of the captors? Ehhh...not making much sense by my reasoning, but hey, what do I know?

Oh, on a side note, if the Israelites did not keep these virgin girls for sexual purposes, then why did they not also allow males of the same age to live? Just curious, perhaps you could enlighten me? :roll:

"Cause like...we're all gods children, but if you're not white...well...I mean it's like you're gods step-child."


KingDavid8
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Crazywumbat wrote:

Well letme get this straight then, from what you've just posted. Killing a woman's husband would breed hatred in her towards the killers. Right, gotcha, pretty much common sense right there....but then, killing a child's parents wouldn't make them less than fond of the captors? Ehhh...not making much sense by my reasoning, but hey, what do I know?

Kids are less of a threat than adults and are also more easily influenced, a bit more of a "blank slate", if you will. Especially the girls, who were raised to be meek and dependent.

Quote:

Oh, on a side note, if the Israelites did not keep these virgin girls for sexual purposes, then why did they not also allow males of the same age to live? Just curious, perhaps you could enlighten me? :roll:

It largely had to do with the way little boys and little girls were raised in those cultures. Girls (for right or wrong) were brought up to be meek and dependent, while boys were brought up to defend their tribe. Boys were more of a threat, or at least a potential threat, than girls. Sure, an 8-year-old boy wouldn't be much of a problem for the Israelites, but once he got older, he might still be harboring a vengeful streak.

David


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KingDavid8 wrote:
Crazywumbat wrote:

Well letme get this straight then, from what you've just posted. Killing a woman's husband would breed hatred in her towards the killers. Right, gotcha, pretty much common sense right there....but then, killing a child's parents wouldn't make them less than fond of the captors? Ehhh...not making much sense by my reasoning, but hey, what do I know?

Kids are less of a threat than adults and are also more easily influenced, a bit more of a "blank slate", if you will. Especially the girls, who were raised to be meek and dependent.

Quote:

Oh, on a side note, if the Israelites did not keep these virgin girls for sexual purposes, then why did they not also allow males of the same age to live? Just curious, perhaps you could enlighten me? :roll:

It largely had to do with the way little boys and little girls were raised in those cultures. Girls (for right or wrong) were brought up to be meek and dependent, while boys were brought up to defend their tribe. Boys were more of a threat, or at least a potential threat, than girls. Sure, an 8-year-old boy wouldn't be much of a problem for the Israelites, but once he got older, he might still be harboring a vengeful streak.

David


A vengeful female grown to adulthood can certainly kill someone in their sleep, or worse yet - do a "bobbitt" on hubby, keeping him from ever going to church again.

And what about babies? Male babies & toddlers were killed, too - even though they'd have no memory, no vengeance, and could be raised to consider israel his real family. AND, given the warlike nature of the Israelite mob, he'd be another axewielding smitemaster. IMO only as a barbaric gesture of power & nonmercy can this be explained.


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KingDavid8 wrote:
Atheist_Scathe wrote:

Convenient and disingenious of you, KD8. They spared young, pre-pubescent girls (according to your probably correct interpretation of the bible), and slaughtered all the males and non-virgin women! What a merciful, loving god!

Quote:
Since this was a group of people intent on wiping out the Israelites altogether, fighting back was quite justified.

...Because (to the extent that this was even true) the Israelites were hell-bent on invading other lands and maintaining their cultural, social and yes, sexual purity. The raid was in retaliation for the Peor incident (seduction of Israelites by Midianite women, causing Yahweh to blow his gasket and wipe out a shitload of Hebs by plague- what a fucking diabolical prick).

Quote:
Keep in mind that the ANE world was one in which survival wasn't exactly easy. The Israelites had a lot of people in the area who wanted to wipe them off the face of the Earth.

Your disingeniuity mounts, KD8. I don't mean to sound terse with you but you're not being fully honest with yourself or us here. The "enemies" of the Hebs were precisely this primarily because the Hebs' god was enough of a prick to mandate their wholescale slaughter or at least subjugation. Remember the Hivites? The Hebs got the heat for being too tolerant that time... so they "simply" enslaved them rather than killing them off.

Quote:
If they'd kept the grown women after having killed their husbands, these women would be quite hateful of the Israelites, and, if they had kids with the Israelites, would raise these kids to hate their own tribe, and we all know what the Bible has to say about a house divided against itself.

Oh, okay, so it's justified to kill babies and small children and noncombatant men and women? Wow, and they say atheists lack moral basis... Yeah, I'm with ya on that bit, think if someone killed my spouse after destroying my life and taking me as sex property I'd be ready to murder somehow...

Quote:
And if they'd just kept them around but didn't touch them, the women would still be finding ways to cause trouble for their captors. Can you imagine killing a man in war, and then forcing his widow to live with you? Another option would be to spare the female adults and let them walk off by themselves. In that area, they would be defenseless and easy prey for other tribes, eventually enslaved and/or raped and killed.

Is this so hard for you to get your mind around, KD8? Have you been this blinded by the delusions of hateful madmen from ages past? Does this much of the naked killer ape lurk in the most cloistered Christian? How can you not see that such wanton destruction of human life and livelihood is wrong? Put yourself in the Midianites' position for a moment: what would you have done? How on earth can you justify what the Hebs are supposed to have done here?!

Quote:

Wow, I can't POSSIBLY imagine them putting virgin girls to sexual uses, can you, KD8?

Quote:
Not when they're children and there's no evidence that pedophilia was an issue for the Israelites.

Your powers of hopscotch continue to amaze me. You mean that there were no men in this society who would not and did not touch young girls? Especially given a few years? Especially given the fact that they were property? How can you not see that their only basic purpose was concubinage? That's the only reason an ANE people would take the virgins prisoner but slay the males.

Quote:
Can the thought have possibly penetrated (no double entendre intended) the biblical bullshit of indoctrination you seem to have so willingly accepted to cloud your reason?

Quote:
I'm not the one assuming that the only possible reason for sparing female children was that they wanted to screw them.

Sure, they needed help darning socks, of course, how silly of me...

Quote:
Is it hypothetically possible? Perhaps. But without some kind of reason to suppose it's so (other than a pressing desire to find ways to hate God), I wouldn't assume it.

David

Very naive of you, David. With a few pious gesticulations you sidestep an appalling acount of divinely-sanctioned mass murder, pillage and rapine. As far as a pressing desire to find ways to hate the god that some small-minded and ignorant men in ages past concocted from their own neuroses, I don't need to: the reasons to hate this twisted creation are liberally and abundantly scattered through the sordid pages of his purported holy writ and defended ad nauseum by his faithfully deluded pundits.


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KingDavid8 wrote:
Crazywumbat wrote:

Well letme get this straight then, from what you've just posted. Killing a woman's husband would breed hatred in her towards the killers. Right, gotcha, pretty much common sense right there....but then, killing a child's parents wouldn't make them less than fond of the captors? Ehhh...not making much sense by my reasoning, but hey, what do I know?

Quote:
Kids are less of a threat than adults and are also more easily influenced, a bit more of a "blank slate", if you will. Especially the girls, who were raised to be meek and dependent.

Pardon the mandatory Slayer quotes here but SU NIOJ, SU NIOJ, SU NIOJ...

Quote:

Oh, on a side note, if the Israelites did not keep these virgin girls for sexual purposes, then why did they not also allow males of the same age to live? Just curious, perhaps you could enlighten me? :roll:

Quote:
It largely had to do with the way little boys and little girls were raised in those cultures. Girls (for right or wrong) were brought up to be meek and dependent, while boys were brought up to defend their tribe. Boys were more of a threat, or at least a potential threat, than girls. Sure, an 8-year-old boy wouldn't be much of a problem for the Israelites, but once he got older, he might still be harboring a vengeful streak.

David

Yes, and the little girls wouldn't be able to express this because they'd safely be burdened with domestic labor and satiating their masters... and of course all of this miraculously explains why it's okay to murder small boys (kill lest ye be killed; did Moses forget that commandment?) and take virgins as sex prizes. I'm still amazed by your powers of denial on that last one.


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Humans are evil beings. All they deserve is suffering and death. And who cares if they have to die young, for the glory of our Perfectly Good Lord? Ater all, since there were no missionaries at the time, nor all the Jesus thing, it was almost impossible for them to repent. It logically follows that they would grow up, die and go to hell anyway. Israelites were only having some fun with the girls and cleasing the planet of the sub-races, while making room for God's perfect people and perfect religion. On a second thought, christian reasoning in justifying God's actions are not that irrational, when you know where they're coming from.

Belief is the idiot's Wisdom.


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 Does this mean

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