I had a revelation while reading the bible.

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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Something I posted on the christian sites I am on:

Quote:
for the sake of this commentary I am going to assume that the god of christianity exists.I was reading my bible and found answers to some questions that had been elusive to me..perhaps I can share them with you and why they still remain elusive:

Does god hate anyone?

The answer to this is no....he does hate some

Quote:
Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Should we love or hate others?

This is what the bible says about loving your brother

Quote:
Leviticus 19:17
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart.

Leviticus 19:18
Love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20-21
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Then this is what Jesus says:

Quote:
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what is it leviticus or Jesus is right.

I then began to ponder on the hardening of hearts, why would god harden our hearts like he did with the egyptian and the pharoah

Quote:

Exodus 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exodus 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Exodus 7:13
And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 9:12
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

Exodus 10:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Exodus 10:20
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

Exodus 10:27
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.

Exodus 11:10
And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

Exodus 14:4
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD.

Exodus 14:8
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel

Exodus 14:17
I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour.

1 Samuel 6:6
Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened

I mean god hardened there hearts so that they can get killed and there deaths will give him honour.....but why does he still harden hearts...thats because god wants some people to go to hell:

Quote:
Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

This raised the question of fairness...if god was hardening my heart, only to throw me into hell....what type of a being is he.

Then i thought god has to live somewhere right......yet the bible says different things...maybe he hasno fixed abode? Maybe he moved I dont know but lets look at what the bible says:

Quote:
Psalm 9:11
The Lord, which dwelleth in Zion.

Psalm 76:2
His dwelling place is in Zion.

Joel 3:17, 21
So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain .... For the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

Psalm 123:1
Unto you I lift up mine eyes, O thou that dwellest in the heavens.

Ecclesiastes 5:2
Let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth

So does god live on the mountain or in heaven?

Then I turned my thoughts towards whether or not god really knows what is in my heart..or in the hearts of anyone the answer sadly was no:

Quote:
Deuteronomy 8:2
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

Deuteronomy 13:3
For the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your soul.

2 Chronicles 32:31
God left him [Hezekiah], to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart.

So that brought into question the holiness of god...I mean at least he wasnt like the other gods that condoned human sacrifice:

Quote:
Yes. No.

Genesis 22:2
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Exodus 22:29
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Leviticus 27:28-29
No devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast ... shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD. None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.

Numbers 31:25-29
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.

Judges 11:29-40
Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah.... And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.... And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child.... And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back. And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth.... And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed.

2 Samuel 21:1, 8-9, 14
Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites.... The king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul ... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD....And after that God was intreated for the land.

1 Kings 13:2
And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

2 Kings 23:20
And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them.

but alas I was wrong.

So now with a heavy heart I thought well at least I have freewill:

Quote:
Acts 13:48
And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom.8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom.9:11-22
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

Eph.1:4-5
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

2 Th.2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

2 Tim.1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation.

wrong again.

I was quite upset and had toput the bible down...but I will continue this commentary later.

A MESSAGE TO ALL THEISTS:

 

CRY ME A RIVER

 

BUILD ME A BRIDGE

 

BUT IN THE NAME OF NOTHING GET OVER IT.


Yellow_Number_Five
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Well done.

There is NOTHING like actually reading the Bible to kill your faith. Doing so certainly strangled what was left of my God belief several years ago.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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JesusSaves
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Re: I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Then this is what Jesus says:

Quote:
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus wasn't actually saying Hate your father, mother, ect. He said that you should have greater love for me than that of your neihgbor.. Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul, mind and strength and then your neighbor as yourself.
so pretty much it is a hyberbole

"God didn't send us a doctrine to learn, or a religion to live, or a philosophy to debate. He sent us a brother to love, a madman to trust, a servant to serve, and a mystery to embrace." ~Steven James, STORY


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Re: I had a revelation while reading the bible.

JesusSaves wrote:
Then this is what Jesus says:

Quote:
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus wasn't actually saying Hate your father, mother, ect. He said that you should have greater love for me than that of your neihgbor.. Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul, mind and strength and then your neighbor as yourself.
so pretty much it is a hyberbole

How do you get that out of it? It says: "If you come to me and don't hate you [insert other humans you know] you can't be my disciple.", which doesn't say, "No, no, I'm kidding. You just have to like them a little less than me, that's all".

Eye-wink

-=Grim=-

No Nyarlathotep, Know Peace.
Know Nyarlathotep, No Peace.


Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Hey, you have soo many verses there that are out of context. At the same time you posted so much...

1. Yes God hates some people.

2. Yes we are supposed to love everyone.

3. Luke 14:26 - Jesus is talking about the cost of becoming a disciple. Notice that he even says that the person should even hate his own life. This verse doesn't seem literal to me. It seems that He's asking for total dedication from those who wanted to be His disciples.

4. God hardened Pharoh's heart so that He could prove to the Isrealites that He was God. Also what happened to the egyptians was a big enough event so that other surounding nations would respect and fear both Isreal and their God. This would make it easyer for the Isrealites in some cases and harder in other cases.

5. Proverbs 16:4 - It can't be assumed that "day of evil" equals hell. To understand why I say this, try to see it from the writter's point of view. I doubt the writter at that time had any idea of a place called hell.

John 12:40 - This one actualy starts at verse 37, It's talking about the Jews and is a quote from Isaiah 6:10 I think. The Jews had to not believe in Jesus in order for them to push for Him to be crucified.

Romans 9:18 - For this one you have to read the whole chapter in order to get the context. Paul is proving that God's favor doesn't come by works but by God's mercy. In verses 14 - 18 Paul is talking about what happened to Pharoh in egypt way back when God hardened his heart. He's using it as an example that God can have mercy on whoever He wants and harden whoever He wants.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 - The key words in this set of verses are "delighted in wickedness" Those are the people who are being sent a strong delusion. So don't delight in wickedness and instead seek trueth so this scripture doesn't apply to you.

None of these prove that God harden's people's hearts today in order to send them to Hell. I know I didn't go into detail here, but I recomend that when you study the Bible be sure to look at the context of the scripture, look at who wrote it and when. Look at who it's talking about, and who it's talking to.

6. Where did God live??? Couldn't He have had multiple homes? LoL

7. Does God know what's in your heart? Just because He chose to learn about these people in the scriptures that you posted by testing them doesn't mean that He can't know what's in your heart. I admit that those texts are interesting and maybe there's a problem with hebrew to english translation. There are other scriptures that show that He does know what's in our hearts but I would have to find them.

8. Ok, I'm trying not to laugh here... God doese not condone human sacrifices:

Genesis 22:2 - God testing Abraham's faith. He didn't let heim sacrifice his son.

Exodus 22:29 - Giving the firstborn to God doesn't mean sacrifice him/her. To give your child to God means to hand them over to serve God. Maybe as a priest or a nazarite or something like that.

Ok dude, I have to go. I'll answere the rest later. Man, you posted so much... sheesh. Ummm... I recomend that if you plan to do a seriouse study of the Bible that you should get a study Bible with comments. You don't have to aggree with the comentary but it should help in giving you some insight into how we view the text. Also I recommend a clear english text like the NIV version as apposed to the KJV old english. I hope all of this helps. I know I'm only giving short answers. Maybe if you posted a little at a time I could spend more time on each subject.

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


Abandoned_Mind
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

It seems like a lot of work on the worthless.


SAVAGE
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Re: I had a revelation while reading the bible.

GrimJesta wrote:
JesusSaves wrote:
Then this is what Jesus says:

Quote:
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus wasn't actually saying Hate your father, mother, ect. He said that you should have greater love for me than that of your neihgbor.. Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul, mind and strength and then your neighbor as yourself.
so pretty much it is a hyberbole

How do you get that out of it? It says: "If you come to me and don't hate you [insert other humans you know] you can't be my disciple.", which doesn't say, "No, no, I'm kidding. You just have to like them a little less than me, that's all".

Eye-wink

-=Grim=-

:smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038

A MESSAGE TO ALL THEISTS:

 

CRY ME A RIVER

 

BUILD ME A BRIDGE

 

BUT IN THE NAME OF NOTHING GET OVER IT.


SAVAGE
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Reddragon wrote:
Hey, you have soo many verses there that are out of context. At the same time you posted so much...

1. Yes God hates some people.

How very kind and loving.

Quote:
2. Yes we are supposed to love everyone.

LOL!!! That?s not what the verses I put up says.

Quote:
3. Luke 14:26 - Jesus is talking about the cost of becoming a disciple. Notice that he even says that the person should even hate his own life. This verse doesn't seem literal to me. It seems that He's asking for total dedication from those who wanted to be His disciples.

No he said the word hate, if he didn?t mean the word hate?why say the word hate?

Quote:
4. God hardened Pharoh's heart so that He could prove to the Isrealites that He was God. Also what happened to the egyptians was a big enough event so that other surounding nations would respect and fear both Isreal and their God. This would make it easyer for the Isrealites in some cases and harder in other cases.

So to prove he was god he killed the Israelites?not just by drowning, but slaughtering there first born males etc?.nice! What did those children do to god?but hey at least people will know, so what about the heartache of the Egyptian mothers and the families being fucked around with as long as god got to have his way right?

5. Proverbs 16:4 - It can't be assumed that "day of evil" equals hell. To understand why I say this, try to see it from the writter's point of view. I doubt the writter at that time had any idea of a place called hell.

John 12:40 - This one actualy starts at verse 37, It's talking about the Jews and is a quote from Isaiah 6:10 I think. The Jews had to not believe in Jesus in order for them to push for Him to be crucified.

Romans 9:18 - For this one you have to read the whole chapter in order to get the context. Paul is proving that God's favor doesn't come by works but by God's mercy. In verses 14 - 18 Paul is talking about what happened to Pharoh in egypt way back when God hardened his heart. He's using it as an example that God can have mercy on whoever He wants and harden whoever He wants.

Quote:
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 - The key words in this set of verses are "delighted in wickedness" Those are the people who are being sent a strong delusion. So don't delight in wickedness and instead seek trueth so this scripture doesn't apply to you.

How do you know?

Quote:
None of these prove that God harden's people's hearts today in order to send them to Hell. I know I didn't go into detail here, but I recomend that when you study the Bible be sure to look at the context of the scripture, look at who wrote it and when. Look at who it's talking about, and who it's talking to.

Ok then I will take your advice, I will start again at the beggining, so who wrote genesis?

Quote:
6. Where did God live??? Couldn't He have had multiple homes? LoL

Does he?..where does it say that?

Quote:
7. Does God know what's in your heart? Just because He chose to learn about these people in the scriptures that you posted by testing them doesn't mean that He can't know what's in your heart. I admit that those texts are interesting and maybe there's a problem with hebrew to english translation. There are other scriptures that show that He does know what's in our hearts but I would have to find them.

If god had to learn then it means exactly that he isn?t an omni god, if he had to learn that means he doesn?t know?you cant learn something you already know?.you can breathe from the moment you are born?you don?t have to learn it, because you can already do it.

Quote:
8. Ok, I'm trying not to laugh here... God doese not condone human sacrifices:

Genesis 22:2 - God testing Abraham's faith. He didn't let heim sacrifice his son.

What about the lady that killed all her children because god said so, that just happened recently. Don?t give me that she was sick thing either god ordered lots of deaths, or how do you know that god didn?t command her to kill her children?

Exodus 22:29 - Giving the firstborn to God doesn't mean sacrifice him/her. To give your child to God means to hand them over to serve God. Maybe as a priest or a nazarite or something like that.

Quote:
Ok dude, I have to go. I'll answere the rest later. Man, you posted so much... sheesh. Ummm... I recomend that if you plan to do a seriouse study of the Bible that you should get a study Bible with comments. You don't have to aggree with the comentary but it should help in giving you some insight into how we view the text. Also I recommend a clear english text like the NIV version as apposed to the KJV old english. I hope all of this helps. I know I'm only giving short answers. Maybe if you posted a little at a time I could spend more time on each subject.

Dude I will let the other atheists on this board tell you about my history as a steadfast bull headed theist. Don?t even try that pulling the I don?t know the bible bullshit. If you cant take the heat get your ass out of hell buddy. Go talk to your ceiling about me, I am a fucking heathen flipping you and god off.

Smite me?hahahahaha?what a load of shit!

A MESSAGE TO ALL THEISTS:

 

CRY ME A RIVER

 

BUILD ME A BRIDGE

 

BUT IN THE NAME OF NOTHING GET OVER IT.


MattShizzle
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

The Bible is bullshit anyway. And it doesn't even make good toilet paper. Laughing out loud


JesusSaves
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Re: I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Quote:
How do you get that out of it? It says: "If you come to me and don't hate you [insert other humans you know] you can't be my disciple.", which doesn't say, "No, no, I'm kidding. You just have to like them a little less than me, that's all".

Eye-wink

-=Grim=-

that is what he said - your love for me should be greater than that of which your love to yourself

"God didn't send us a doctrine to learn, or a religion to live, or a philosophy to debate. He sent us a brother to love, a madman to trust, a servant to serve, and a mystery to embrace." ~Steven James, STORY


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

He literally said hate. Deal with it. Your God is evil. :roll:


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Then why did he have to use the word hate? Hate is a pretty powerful thing, and to ask people, who take your word so sacred, to HATE, I think it would be taken on face value.

And how on earth does god hate? Thats so reactionary and human, who the hell would make something knowing that they will hate it?

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Re: I had a revelation while reading the bible.

JesusSaves wrote:
Quote:
How do you get that out of it? It says: "If you come to me and don't hate you [insert other humans you know] you can't be my disciple.", which doesn't say, "No, no, I'm kidding. You just have to like them a little less than me, that's all".

Eye-wink

-=Grim=-

that is what he said - your love for me should be greater than that of which your love to yourself

No, that isn't what he said. What he said was just what I wrote, unless the whole phrase is a metaphor, and if the Bible is just a metaphor then you open a whole can of worms (like the RRS forming, gaining a following, other atheist groups forming up... the whole shebang).

The sentence was that if you don't HATE your [fellow humans] you can't be His disciple. Where does that say that you just have to like them a little less than God? Hate isn't "like a little less". Hate is hate.

But can we really expect less than hate from a myth that talks about omniscience, but then damns people to Hell for things He knew they'd do before they were even born?

-=Grim=-

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Know Nyarlathotep, No Peace.


JesusSaves
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

HealingBlight wrote:
Then why did he have to use the word hate? Hate is a pretty powerful thing, and to ask people, who take your word so sacred, to HATE, I think it would be taken on face value.

And how on earth does god hate? Thats so reactionary and human, who the hell would make something knowing that they will hate it?

well remember we are talking about a guy who spoke in many parables, and stuff like that. I mean you might say "hate" pizza becuase it makes you want to eat it. but infact you might be sarcasticly joking (not that Jesus was sarcasticly joking because he wasn't He was using a hyperbole) but people wouldn't take your word hate seriously.
your looking at the shell of the car rather than the inside of it which makes the car.

"God didn't send us a doctrine to learn, or a religion to live, or a philosophy to debate. He sent us a brother to love, a madman to trust, a servant to serve, and a mystery to embrace." ~Steven James, STORY


MattShizzle
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

So anytime the Bible says something bad, the excuse is, "Well it doesn't really mean that!" Wouldn't God know how people would interpret it? As Robert Ingersoll said, when a man writes for other men, he chooses his words so other men who read it will know what he means. Surely a God would know how his word would be interpreted, and be able to express himself so his word would be understood by all. If a man writes for other men, and could have written in another way, still writes in a way that will cause other men to misinterpret what he says, knowing this to be the case, than we would say he purposely uses words to misinform and is not an honest man.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

MattShizzle wrote:
So anytime the Bible says something bad, the excuse is, "Well it doesn't really mean that!" Wouldn't God know how people would interpret it? As Robert Ingersoll said, when a man writes for other men, he chooses his words so other men who read it will know what he means. Surely a God would know how his word would be interpreted, and be able to express himself so his word would be understood by all. If a man writes for other men, and could have written in another way, still writes in a way that will cause other men to misinterpret what he says, knowing this to be the case, than we would say he purposely uses words to misinform and is not an honest man.

like the word as@ it can mean a donkey or like now a days it can mean a persons butt.

if I were to say that the farmer had a as@. would you take it as me meaning it has the word butt or the word for donkey?

and you also have to see if it measure up with what God is like. Is he really meaning the word hate? or is he meaning it to be metephorically?

"God didn't send us a doctrine to learn, or a religion to live, or a philosophy to debate. He sent us a brother to love, a madman to trust, a servant to serve, and a mystery to embrace." ~Steven James, STORY


MattShizzle
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

You aren't God, though, so you might not know how someone would interpret it, he certainly would! And if you wanted to be clear in the case you mentioned, you would say either "donkey" or "butt", or use it in a context that made it obvious. By the way, isn't it dangerous for you to try to say the Bible doesn't mean exactly, literally what it says? Aren't your interpretations adding to or taking away from what the Bible says? What does the Bible say about that?

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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

MattShizzle wrote:
You aren't God, though, so you might not know how someone would interpret it, he certainly would! And if you wanted to be clear in the case you mentioned, you would say either "donkey" or "butt", or use it in a context that made it obvious. By the way, isn't it dangerous for you to try to say the Bible doesn't mean exactly, literally what it says? Aren't your interpretations adding to or taking away from what the Bible says? What does the Bible say about that?

I don't think I said that.. like my last portion said.

also have to see if it measure up with what God is like. Is he really meaning the word hate? or is he meaning it to be metephorically?

"God didn't send us a doctrine to learn, or a religion to live, or a philosophy to debate. He sent us a brother to love, a madman to trust, a servant to serve, and a mystery to embrace." ~Steven James, STORY


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

JesusSaves wrote:

also have to see if it measure up with what God is like. Is he really meaning the word hate? or is he meaning it to be metephorically?

If the Bible is God's word, and God wishes us to understand the Bible, then why is it necessary to ask these questions? Why is the message in the Bible open for different interpretations? Shouldn't every one who reads the book come away with the same message if the Bible is God's word and God wants us to understand that word?

Is salvation dependent on reading comprehension and symbolic interpretation now?

And if it is open for interpretation, what makes you think your interpretation is correct?

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

If he really wanted to get his message across, why would he expect people to pick and choose what he really means, and what is just a metaphor? Especially when the results are that important? Or is this just one of God's little games to try to send more people to hell? Wow, God's even less nice the more you look at it!

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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Wow, crossover posts and we kinda said the same thing! Laughing out loud


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

JesusSaves wrote:
MattShizzle wrote:
So anytime the Bible says something bad, the excuse is, "Well it doesn't really mean that!" Wouldn't God know how people would interpret it? As Robert Ingersoll said, when a man writes for other men, he chooses his words so other men who read it will know what he means. Surely a God would know how his word would be interpreted, and be able to express himself so his word would be understood by all. If a man writes for other men, and could have written in another way, still writes in a way that will cause other men to misinterpret what he says, knowing this to be the case, than we would say he purposely uses words to misinform and is not an honest man.

like the word as@ it can mean a donkey or like now a days it can mean a persons butt.

if I were to say that the farmer had a as@. would you take it as me meaning it has the word butt or the word for donkey?

and you also have to see if it measure up with what God is like. Is he really meaning the word hate? or is he meaning it to be metephorically?

So whats the difference between the word hate now and the word hate then?

A MESSAGE TO ALL THEISTS:

 

CRY ME A RIVER

 

BUILD ME A BRIDGE

 

BUT IN THE NAME OF NOTHING GET OVER IT.


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Reddragon wrote:

1. Yes God hates some people.

2. Yes we are supposed to love everyone.

Why should we display a quality "God" obviously doesn't hold that important. Aren't humans supposed to emulate God's perfect will, perfect judgement, etc etc etc in everyway possible? So why should we love everyone if you've just admitted that not even God does?

:roll:

"Cause like...we're all gods children, but if you're not white...well...I mean it's like you're gods step-child."


Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

MattShizzle wrote:
So anytime the Bible says something bad, the excuse is, "Well it doesn't really mean that!" Wouldn't God know how people would interpret it? As Robert Ingersoll said, when a man writes for other men, he chooses his words so other men who read it will know what he means. Surely a God would know how his word would be interpreted, and be able to express himself so his word would be understood by all. If a man writes for other men, and could have written in another way, still writes in a way that will cause other men to misinterpret what he says, knowing this to be the case, than we would say he purposely uses words to misinform and is not an honest man.

Hi guys, I've been gone for a while. Ummmm... First the Bible wasn't written by God. People were inspired by God to write about what they saw and heard. So, if you have a problem with the wording, don't blame God. Second, our english Bible is a translation. The NT was written in Greek. If we're going to argue about what Jesus ment, it's best to know what it says in the Greek, because what was realy ment could have been lost in translation. Third, I think I mentioned this above. Read the scripture in context. Not only that, in order to study the meaning of a text you have to understand the culture of the time, the meaning of the words at the time they were being used(the use of words change over time), who's speaking and who is the speaker talking to.

Ok, I'm not going to look up the greek, nore am I going to do a word study. But lets at least look at the scripture in context. The full text is: Luke 14:25-33 Jesus is talking to the people who were fallowing Him about the price of becoming His disciple. He's not talking to us nore anybody in the future. He's telling them to consider the price of following Him at that time. Not only does He tell them to hate people that they're connected to He tells them to hate their own lives. Ultimately to me it seems that He's telling them to give up everything they care about in order to follow Him.

Also JesusSaves' answere is the typical answere you'll get from theologians(people who actualy spend time studying Hebrew and greek, the culture, and everything else that goes into studying scripture.)

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Crazywumbat wrote:
Reddragon wrote:

1. Yes God hates some people.

2. Yes we are supposed to love everyone.

Why should we display a quality "God" obviously doesn't hold that important. Aren't humans supposed to emulate God's perfect will, perfect judgement, etc etc etc in everyway possible? So why should we love everyone if you've just admitted that not even God does?

:roll:

LoL, good question. No we are not to emulate God's perfect will and perfect judgement because we're not perfect. This is like saying that because God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah because of how sinful those cities were that we have the right to go around killing people who are heavy sinners. It doesn't work that way. We are supposed to emulate the character of Jesus as He was when He was on earth.

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Does that mean if we are hungry and go into someone elses yard to get a piece of fruit from their fruit tree during the winter, it's OK to chop that tree down when (surprise!) there's no fruit on it? Laughing out loud

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Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

MattShizzle wrote:
Does that mean if we are hungry and go into someone elses yard to get a piece of fruit from their fruit tree during the winter, it's OK to chop that tree down when (surprise!) there's no fruit on it? :lol:

HAHAHA!!! Ok, who said anything about chopping down trees???

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Well, Jesus didn't actually chop it down, but he withered the fig tree. The result was the same. Since none of us have superpowers, the closest we can get is chopping one down.

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LCQuerido
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

What is the point in having a perfect text if you don't have a perfect human being to read it and perfectly extract its meaning? Texts are not autonomous entities. They need interpretation and humans are fallible.

So what does the statetment "the Bible is the word of God" exactly mean ?
Nothing.

Some believers have told me that God will garantee that the true believer will understand it correctly. But how do you know that? And they say "It's says so in the Bible".

Christian logic is really amazing. :shock:

Belief is the idiot's Wisdom.


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Quote:
1. Yes God hates some people.

2. Yes we are supposed to love everyone.

1. I tought GOd was all-loving?
2. What verse says we have to love everyone, I know the "Golden Rule" says how you want to be treated, and the Commadments say "honor" your parents, but I dont see love anywhere.


Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

LCQuerido wrote:
What is the point in having a perfect text if you don't have a perfect human being to read it and perfectly extract its meaning? Texts are not autonomous entities. They need interpretation and humans are fallible.

We pass information all the time in hope that people will understand it. Just becauese people may get it wrong doesn't mean we should stop talking. Also weather or not the Bible is a perfect text is arguable. But you didn't hear that from me. What's important to me is if important docterine is clear and understandable. If something is unclear or easyly misinterprited, and happens to be unimportant, than it realy doesn't matter to me IMHO.

Quote:

So what does the statetment "the Bible is the word of God" exactly mean ?
Nothing.

Some believers have told me that God will garantee that the true believer will understand it correctly. But how do you know that? And they say "It's says so in the Bible".

Christian logic is really amazing. :shock:

I'm a Christian and that logic doesn't make since to me. There are times where my experiences with God line up what the Bible teaches. Also there are times that I feel God is helping me to understand a text but this doesn't happen all the time.

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

MattShizzle wrote:
Well, Jesus didn't actually chop it down, but he withered the fig tree. The result was the same. Since none of us have superpowers, the closest we can get is chopping one down.

Keep in mind, this is from memory. I'm not looking up the story. If I remember right the tree didn't belong to anybody so Jesus had the right to do what He wanted to it.

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

KCahill wrote:
Quote:
1. Yes God hates some people.

2. Yes we are supposed to love everyone.

1. I tought GOd was all-loving?

The Bible says for God so loved the world... This is very general. It's like if I say I like the republican party. This doesn't mean that there aren't any people in the republican party that I don't like. So in general God loves the world but when it comes to individual people He may pick and choose.

Quote:

2. What verse says we have to love everyone, I know the "Golden Rule" says how you want to be treated, and the Commadments say "honor" your parents, but I dont see love anywhere.

Matthew 22:37-39

37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


jester700
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Reddragon wrote:
MattShizzle wrote:
Well, Jesus didn't actually chop it down, but he withered the fig tree. The result was the same. Since none of us have superpowers, the closest we can get is chopping one down.

Keep in mind, this is from memory. I'm not looking up the story. If I remember right the tree didn't belong to anybody so Jesus had the right to do what He wanted to it.


It didn't mention whether it belonged to anyone or not. But the POINT is, it was out of season - there should not have been fruit ON it. Yet Jesus was perturbed by there BEING no fruit on it, and thus curses it so that it never WILL bear fruit.

Atheists bring up this story to illustrate Jesus' nasty streak - there was no reason to do this, and it reminds one of some of the gnostic "child jesus" stories in which he uses his superhero powers to curse or kill other children who merit his ire. In the Matt version jesus' followers call this a "wonder", when any moral person would "wonder" why their leader was such an idiot...

BTW, this is in Mark 11:12 and Matt 21:17.


Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

jester700 wrote:
Reddragon wrote:
MattShizzle wrote:
Well, Jesus didn't actually chop it down, but he withered the fig tree. The result was the same. Since none of us have superpowers, the closest we can get is chopping one down.

Keep in mind, this is from memory. I'm not looking up the story. If I remember right the tree didn't belong to anybody so Jesus had the right to do what He wanted to it.


It didn't mention whether it belonged to anyone or not. But the POINT is, it was out of season - there should not have been fruit ON it. Yet Jesus was perturbed by there BEING no fruit on it, and thus curses it so that it never WILL bear fruit.

Atheists bring up this story to illustrate Jesus' nasty streak - there was no reason to do this, and it reminds one of some of the gnostic "child jesus" stories in which he uses his superhero powers to curse or kill other children who merit his ire. In the Matt version jesus' followers call this a "wonder", when any moral person would "wonder" why their leader was such an idiot...

BTW, this is in Mark 11:12 and Matt 21:17.

I think He had every right to be pissed. So, Jesus gets pissed about some things. So what. Try reading the begining of the book of Revelations, see the letters to the seven churches. He didn't seem too happy there either. Also God got pissed all the time in the OT.

I've read some books on the childhood of Jesus and at least one about Marry. They're all highly unbelieveable IMO.

That that you wrote about any moral person... What is and isn't moral is only a matter of oppinion. Even if the majority agreed on what is moral, it still remains an oppinion.

So IMHO, what Jesus did to the fig tree was perfectly fine. Laughing out loud

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


jester700
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Umm... Well, I dunno what to say.

Getting pissed at people doing evil things, etc. is one thing. Being pissy at a tree for doing exactly as yo' daddy designed it to do and then cursing it (so nobody else can enjoy the fruit, say, NEXT year) is another, and quite different than the divine "prince of peace" lie spread by sunday school teachers. Morals may be subjective, and was probably the wrong word to use. But if I knew someone who had super powers and he chose to use them in this way, I'd call him an "assmuncher".


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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

I'd call him a dipshit.


HeliosOfTheSun
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

Quote:
Love your neighbor as yourself

Okay well my neigbor down the street was arrested 3 years ago for child pornography, I guess I have to love him right?


MattShizzle
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

And if he really was God, shouldn't he have known it wasn't fig season and thus there would be no figs? Wouldn't an average person know that much, let alone the designer of the universe?

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Reddragon
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I had a revelation while reading the bible.

jester700 wrote:
Umm... Well, I dunno what to say.

Getting pissed at people doing evil things, etc. is one thing. Being pissy at a tree for doing exactly as yo' daddy designed it to do and then cursing it (so nobody else can enjoy the fruit, say, NEXT year) is another, and quite different than the divine "prince of peace" lie spread by sunday school teachers. Morals may be subjective, and was probably the wrong word to use. But if I knew someone who had super powers and he chose to use them in this way, I'd call him an "assmuncher".

I don't know man. This sounds like nit picking to me. On another note Christians overdue the whole prince of peace/loving God/couldn't hurt a flea thing. Try reading the book of Isaiah. He can be a prince of peace at times and at other times a bringer of war and destruction.

Also, Jesus was using this to teach His disciples a lesson on faith. Who cares if some fig tree withered up and died so that no-one else could ever eat from it again. I don't mean to be offensive, but it seems unimportant to me.

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


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Reddragon wrote:jester700

Reddragon wrote:
jester700 wrote:
Umm... Well, I dunno what to say.

Getting pissed at people doing evil things, etc. is one thing. Being pissy at a tree for doing exactly as yo' daddy designed it to do and then cursing it (so nobody else can enjoy the fruit, say, NEXT year) is another, and quite different than the divine "prince of peace" lie spread by sunday school teachers. Morals may be subjective, and was probably the wrong word to use. But if I knew someone who had super powers and he chose to use them in this way, I'd call him an "assmuncher".

I don't know man. This sounds like nit picking to me.

call it what you like. the fact is, the bible tells us Jesus got pissed at something that was doing exactly what it was supposed to do.

Reddragon wrote:
On another note Christians overdue the whole prince of peace/loving God/couldn't hurt a flea thing. Try reading the book of Isaiah. He can be a prince of peace at times and at other times a bringer of war and destruction.
from the bible:

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." - Galatians 5:22

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God." - Matthew 5:9

"...be at peace with one another." - Mark 9:49[/b]

so my question is, if Jesus is god, and god is peaceful, why would he kill that fig tree for doing exactly what it was made to do?

and also consider these lines:

"And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death." Exo 21:17

"He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death." Exo 21:12

"And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death." Exo 21:15

"Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." Exo 31:15

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again." Deuteronomy 13:6

the bible wants things to be peaceful, and yet tells you to kill people for the things above, including working on a Saturday, and following another religeon.

Reddragon wrote:
Also, Jesus was using this to teach His disciples a lesson on faith. Who cares if some fig tree withered up and died so that no-one else could ever eat from it again. I don't mean to be offensive, but it seems unimportant to me.
who cares? is god suddernly no-longer all-loving?


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JesusSaves

JesusSaves wrote:
HealingBlight wrote:
Then why did he have to use the word hate? Hate is a pretty powerful thing, and to ask people, who take your word so sacred, to HATE, I think it would be taken on face value.

And how on earth does god hate? Thats so reactionary and human, who the hell would make something knowing that they will hate it?

well remember we are talking about a guy who spoke in many parables, and stuff like that. I mean you might say "hate" pizza becuase it makes you want to eat it. but infact you might be sarcasticly joking (not that Jesus was sarcasticly joking because he wasn't He was using a hyperbole) but people wouldn't take your word hate seriously.
your looking at the shell of the car rather than the inside of it which makes the car.

You'd teach this hogwash to children I bet. What a twisted mind.

BTW, Good response HealingBlight