What moves atheists to tears?

sugarfree
Theist
Posts: 478
Joined: 2007-03-14
User is offlineOffline
What moves atheists to tears?

Well, I had an interesting experience on Sunday. I was singing on the vocal team at my church for the Easter service. I get teary sometimes, because of the words and power of the music along with it, sometimes it becomes overwhelming, in a good, but also very humbling way. On Sunday, I made it thru all the songs, but the last one was a traditional spiritual. A very simple song, simple melody, but quite beautiful melody, at that...with some interesting minor/jazz chords thrown in.

The second verse..."Were you there when they nailed Him to the tree"...then the third verse..."Were you there when they laid him in the tomb," and I felt it coming...not just tears, sobs...in front of 250 or so people. This is not how I wanted it to happen, I don't relish allowing 250 people to see my weakness, but the truth of those lyrics, so simple, so incredibly profound. I couldn't sing anymore, I just looked down...and...bawled. But you know what? The fact that I was in front of all those people, it doesn't really matter. I knew they would not judge me.

The reality of those words is what caused me to sob. Jesus was brutally beaten, disgraced, humiliated, his hands were nailed...and then He, God, died a human death. A more horrible death than any of us will experience. And he walked into that situation, willingly, for me. In the process of walking to his death, He spoke volumes about the character of God. And if we so chose, we can learn about God by studying how Christ died...and lived. He did all this, so 2000 years later, a person like me can know God personally. Intimately.

Now, you all will tear this post apart, say, I made all this up in my mind. It was the music, the setting, all the people around me... You all can look in from the outside and criticize. But it's okay. Because what I experienced in that moment, as I fully understood what Christ did for me, was Truth. And this Truth is so magnificent that everything you throw at me pales in comparison.


RhadTheGizmo
Theist
Posts: 1191
Joined: 2007-01-31
User is offlineOffline
Quote: Why am I incorrect

Quote:
Why am I incorrect in my assumptions? You must qualify this statement. I don't need to believe in god to be able to contend this point.

Who said you did need to believe in God in order to contend this point? I was just stating that you were making a lot of assumptions about what I believe (or all theist in general).

In anycase.  Here are the assumptions you make.. when you haven't offered an argument in favor of them yet (perhaps elsewhere, but, of course, I'm just speaking form this thread since I haven't read any of your other stuff).

1.) The OT is rubbish.
2.) IT is absolutely rambling fiction.

Assumptions about belief:

1.) That "man in god's image" refers to his physical body as opposed to some other quality.
2.) That God must be discorporate.
3.) Heh.. and my personal favorite.  That God "lives" in space.

I'll admit, you may be right with regards to some theist.. not necessarily me.

Quote:
You can't argue truth on a basis of falsehood.

Quote:
And you can't argue falsehood on the basis of ignorance.

Quote:
That's just a throwaway line buddy. I can argue that it is false because there is no decent evidence for it being true.

It was a throwaway line in response to your throwaway line.  Your line assumed that the bible is necessarily a falsehood and my line assumed that you are ignorant.

I agree you can argue that it is false because you believe there to be no decent evidence for it being true.

Quote:
You can say "well it's probably true because there isn't any cast-iron evidence proving it false".

I would have to contend that there is any "near-cast-iron" evidence suggesting that the "necessary" characteristics for a Christian God are false.

Furthermore, I usually don't say "probably true".. with regards to atheism.. I probably would consider them equally possible (theism and atheism).

Quote:
I don't need to prove it false - it pretty much does the job for itself.

Throw away line?

One doesn't need to do anything.

Quote:
Are we asking too many difficult questions?

No, not necessarily, (just you) are asking a lot of question that are directing us into a new realm of discussion.

Quote:
We can carry on in a new thread if you wish?

We can if you wish. Just keep the topic focused.

I usually don't create threads.. only respond.


todangst
atheistRational VIP!
todangst's picture
Posts: 2830
Joined: 2006-03-10
User is offlineOffline
RhadTheGizmo wrote: "God",

RhadTheGizmo wrote:

"God", even as water, exists within this (theological) universe. It will always be one "thing" even though it can be three forms at once.

 

How can something without any ontological status take on any form at all? 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


RhadTheGizmo
Theist
Posts: 1191
Joined: 2007-01-31
User is offlineOffline
Quote:

Quote:
How can something without any ontological status take on any form at all?

Just so you don't get the last word on this my good man:

Considering my last venture into understanding the concept of "ontological status" never concluded a generally applicable rule concerning what constitutes a "valid ontology" (refer. http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/philosophy_and_psychology_with_chaoslord_and_todangst/5949 ) I cannot address your question-- which is why I have not.


Temper Mental
Temper Mental's picture
Posts: 26
Joined: 2007-04-21
User is offlineOffline
Quote: The second

Quote:
The second verse..."Were you there when they nailed Him to the tree"...then the third verse..."Were you there when they laid him in the tomb," and I felt it coming...not just tears, sobs...in front of 250 or so people. This is not how I wanted it to happen, I don't relish allowing 250 people to see my weakness, but the truth of those lyrics, so simple, so incredibly profound. I couldn't sing anymore, I just looked down...and...bawled. But you know what? The fact that I was in front of all those people, it doesn't really matter. I knew they would not judge me.
You should have been embarassed because you know what?  90% of christians are hypocrits and judge others just as much, if not more, than any other person in this world, especially when it comes to people with different beliefs (not to say you are one of these Christians, because I don't know you.)

Quote:
The reality of those words is what caused me to sob. Jesus was brutally beaten, disgraced, humiliated, his hands were nailed...and then He, God, died a human death. A more horrible death than any of us will experience. And he walked into that situation, willingly, for me. In the process of walking to his death, He spoke volumes about the character of God. And if we so chose, we can learn about God by studying how Christ died...and lived. He did all this, so 2000 years later, a person like me can know God personally. Intimately.

I find it hard to believe that after over 2000 years since Jesus was supposedly crucified, that not a single person has died a more horrible, painful, and ultimately sacrifical death than him.

And I am sure you are about as intimate with God as I am with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  The human mind is more powerful than you can believe.  If it wants to feel something, it will feel it.  If it wants to believe that it is intimate with something that does not exist, it can and will.  Religion is simply a plague of mass hysteria.

Quote:
Now, you all will tear this post apart, say, I made all this up in my mind. It was the music, the setting, all the people around me... You all can look in from the outside and criticize. But it's okay. Because what I experienced in that moment, as I fully understood what Christ did for me, was Truth. And this Truth is so magnificent that everything you throw at me pales in comparison.

Bingo!  The music, setting, and people around you are exactly what had caused this.  As others have mentioned, music is a very powerful thing.  It lowers inhibitions and sets the mood.  Imagine watching the the romantic kiss at the end of every Romance movie.. without the beautiful classical background music playing.  The climax of the song is simply inserted at which point they want you to feel the most emotion.  You know what I'm talking about, the part that sends chills down your spine, or for some people makes you shed a tear.  Without the music it would just make it an ordinary, everyday kiss.  Nothing special.

 This is not what you experienced in the moment, this is simply the reason you want to believe to justify your emotional outburst.  I'm not saying that you don't truely believe this is the reason, but in your subconscious it is not what is really going on.

 ...Anyways, to answer your question.  I'm not a crier, but cutting onions never fails to bring tears to my eyes xD

Dear Flying Spaghetti Monster,
Let us pray that all the hungry children in the world will be fed and peace be spread throughout the entire world. Amen.
*Incoherent speaking*
What do you mean it is not your will to feed the children of the world?!


Susan
Susan's picture
Posts: 3561
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Welcome Temper Mental! 

Welcome Temper Mental!  Glad to have you here.

We'd love it if you would take a minute and hop over to the General Conversation, Introductions and Humor thread and tell us a little about yourself. 

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.