Oh, God, the loving sadist

deludedgod
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Oh, God, the loving sadist

The theodicy problem is as old as the God fairy tale itself. Namely, how can God coexist with the evil and suffering in the world? Thelogians respond three ways:

Mysticism: This is the most ridiculous of the three. "God works in mysterious ways and we cannot understand it". Yeah right. Quite posibly, this is the mother, father, and grandfather of all cop-outs. The fact that idiots actually use this argument merely validates Richard Dawkin's objection that religion prevents people from thinking.

Iranaen: The Iranaen theodicy states that evil and suffering is punishment for the original sin. This one has had a falling-out among theologians. Since it is demonstratable by mtDNA lineage that Adam and Eve quite obviosly are nothing more than mythology, this argument collapses. Iranaeus wins hands down the award for reasoning in the world's smallest circle. Furthermore, the argument, in addition to factual errancy, is bizarre. God is so vindictive and uptight that he punishes man forever because a snake told Eve to eat a fruit. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?? Thankfully, almost no-one uses this theodicy.

Augustinian: By far the most popular. God gives us free will.

But really does he? The notion of Abrahamic faith is utter insanity. God creates us, tells us to follow his rules, which are quite insane rules any reader of the Bible must admit, and then tells us if we don't do it, that is OK, we will be thrown into hell. Sounds alot like the Maoist political stance: "You are free to vote, but only for the communist party". The correct word for the Abrahamic God is filicidal. He enjoys murdering his own children. The proposition that God created us because he loves us but then enforces harsh rules which we don't have to follow, but if we don't we will be tortured forever is utter insanity. People who believe this need to wake up! The portrait of God painted by the Abrahamics is vile. He rewards a very select group of people who blindly follow some ancient fables? Never mind all those people who have never heard the message, God is heartless and has no mercy. Do people really believe this nonsense??

If I were God, it would be more humane not to create men if that is what I intended to do with them!

Play cat and mouse for all eternity. Sounds like a skilled torturer who enjoys playing demented games: Test their faith in some story of highly questionable veracity that happened several mellenia ago? That is God's criteria for judgement? He must be insane. Wake up!

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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laguna117
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Actually the free will

Actually the free will argument was almost totally defeated in the show against Caner but I think Brian et al didn't go far enought.

There is no such thing as free will. There is only choice between limited options. We don't have free will to fly, to kill or hurt someone by will etc. You only have choice between limited options. So the assumption that we would not have free will without being able to commit genocides is a very poor one.

Also, most of the evil in the world in not man made, it's viruses (Pox/Aids) , bacterias (Plague, Flu), Natural Catastrophes, and thus it has nothing to do with any kind of choice. Most mental illnesses that give birth to serial killers and child rapists are also neurological pathologies that have little to do with choice. 

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


deludedgod
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Hey, you are preaching to

Hey, you are preaching to the converted here. I just find it difficult to come to grips with the fact that so many people take Augustine'e theodicy seriously.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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Spewn
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deludedgod

deludedgod wrote:

Augustinian: By far the most popular. God gives us free will.

But really does he? The notion of Abrahamic faith is utter insanity. God creates us, tells us to follow his rules, which are quite insane rules any reader of the Bible must admit, and then tells us if we don't do it, that is OK, we will be thrown into hell. Sounds alot like the Maoist political stance: "You are free to vote, but only for the communist party". The correct word for the Abrahamic God is filicidal. He enjoys murdering his own children. The proposition that God created us because he loves us but then enforces harsh rules which we don't have to follow, but if we don't we will be tortured forever is utter insanity. People who believe this need to wake up! The portrait of God painted by the Abrahamics is vile. He rewards a very select group of people who blindly follow some ancient fables? Never mind all those people who have never heard the message, God is heartless and has no mercy. Do people really believe this nonsense??

A common refutation to this point of view is the teacher/judge/other authority figure who gives you an "F"/puts you in jail for failing/commiting a crime.  Are these bad people, too?

The difference, of course, is that neither an "F" nor a prison sentence are eternal punishment.  The "F" at least is meant to help you learn, so is the prison sentence theoretically.  With god, there appears to be no learning.


deludedgod
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The other difference is that

The other difference is that your teacher does not change your grades to confuse you, the policeman does not make his rules confusing, irrational or insane, and the judge does not sentence people to death for disagreeing with him.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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