A Better Way To View God

pvatistas
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A Better Way To View God

First, let me say that I do not believe in Hell, or any other eternal damnation.  It just doesn't make any logical sense!  So on that point, we agree. Second, let me say that I do not believe that prayer can help anything of this world physicaly.  That too, makes no logical sense.  Why would a creator of the universe care what happens to our physical bodies if in fact there is a greater plan for our "after life"?  So on this point, we agree. Let me also say that I believe in evolution.  Anyone who doesn't is completely blind, in that we can see evidence of evolution all around us.  There is signs of evolution in man over just four generation or less.  So here too, we agree. I also believe that most of the prophets were drug abusers or insane.  I do not feel that any human can possibly interpret the wants or thoughts of a supreme being that created the UNIVERSE!  Proof?  Just look at the night sky and realize what we are talking about here.  Nuf said! Now, here is where you and I cross paths... What about the physical evidence of a divine plan?  Go outside and listen and look around.  NOT as a naturalist.  NOT as a philosopher.  NOT as a religious zealot.  Look and listen as a thinking person.  If you take enough time, you are bound to see some of the things that I see.  For instance, the eyes…  So many of us fellow earthlings celebrate our existence on this planet – many of which could not have evolved from the same gene pool as us – yet have common physical attributes…  Such as eyes.  Not just eyes, but TWO eyes – ON OUR HEAD.  How about ears?  Same thing, fellow earthling.  If you look at some of the other Classes of animals with this in mind, and you are a thinking person (which I think you MUST be), then you will be truly amazed.  An elephant and a mouse.  An aardvark and a human.  Here’s a great one:  A flea and a dog.  Obviously, I could go on all day. I know you don’t WANT to believe in God.  I don’t even care if you do.  I only ask one favor:  If you can see that there is even the slightest CHANCE that I could be correct, please stop targeting the young.  Teenagers need a solid foundation.  Parents are failing in their intended mission.  Sometimes, their religion is all they have to get them through the horrifying years of mankind.  You know the years…  The years when just a girlfriend or boyfriend breaking up with you could cause you to suck on a 9mm.  The years when flunking a class could put you over the edge and make you eat a bottle of pills with a fifth of whiskey.  In this light, show some compassion. 

I know you won’t post this letter.  After all, you are making money!  Good for you.  I just got back from Iraq.  I was fighting for your right to make money, and I don’t want to stop you.  Because of this, I know that this letter will probably go in the crapper.  No problem guys – just please consider my only request.  Thank you.

Oh by the way…  If I’m too late and you have already blasephemied yourself by recording that stupid video this site wants you to do…  Fear not.  God doesn’t give a crap.  If you have carefully read my message, you will realize this yourself.  Just take comfort in knowing that there is a God.  He (more appropriately, a respectful and reverent “IT”) is the Grand Architect of the Universe.  It is a loving God that cares deeply about your soul – nothing more.  Have a wonderful life on this planet.  I like it on this one so much that I think I might come back again!


serotonin_wraith
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You say no one could

You say no one could possibly understand God's wishes, but by the end of your letter you say God doesn't care about the blasphemy challenge, only your soul. Are you privvy to understanding more than any other human?

As for religion helping young people get through life, yes, in some cases it may. Here are some other things that can help- counselling, understanding parents, good friends, medication- even listening to the unconscious mind when making decisions (you would call that prayer).

Is there any evidence to show atheist children are more likely to commit suicide than religious ones?

How about all the hurt and pain religion brings to children. The fear of hell, the endless guilt, the absence of choice and so on. If you don't believe in most of the usual Christian teachings, where should they go? Just look up to the sky now and then and go 'ahh'? What the RRS does is try to get reality out to people, regardless of what comfort people may think they are getting. If all the wars fought over religion had never happened, I'm sure that would have been much more comforting to all those who died or lost loved ones.


ShadowOfMan
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I would think that you are

I would think that you are probably a deist, like our founding fathers. 

Quote:
Go outside and listen and look around.  NOT as a naturalist.  NOT as a philosopher.  NOT as a religious zealot.  Look and listen as a thinking person.  If you take enough time, you are bound to see some of the things that I see.  For instance, the eyes…  So many of us fellow earthlings celebrate our existence on this planet – many of which could not have evolved from the same gene pool as us – yet have common physical attributes…  Such as eyes.  Not just eyes, but TWO eyes – ON OUR HEAD.  How about ears?  Same thing, fellow earthling.  If you look at some of the other Classes of animals with this in mind, and you are a thinking person (which I think you MUST be), then you will be truly amazed.  An elephant and a mouse.  An aardvark and a human.  Here’s a great one:  A flea and a dog.  Obviously, I could go on all day.

So you accept evolution and that God doesn't have a hand on "our physical bodies".  If god has no hand in Natural Selection, a process that is non-random, than you should have no problem seeing that presuming to see a divine plan in the fruits of natural selection is completely irrational.  As irrational as believing in magic or an eternal soul for that matter.  Your almost there my friend.  Why presume?  

Quote:
I know you don’t WANT to believe in God.
How do you know what we want to believe?  I want to believe a lot of things, but I can only ignore or accept evidence.  I'm also fine with having no opinion on several matters for lack of evidence.

Quote:
I only ask one favor:  If you can see that there is even the slightest CHANCE that I could be correct, please stop targeting the young.  Teenagers need a solid foundation.  Parents are failing in their intended mission.  Sometimes, their religion is all they have to get them through the horrifying years of mankind.  You know the years…  The years when just a girlfriend or boyfriend breaking up with you could cause you to suck on a 9mm.  The years when flunking a class could put you over the edge and make you eat a bottle of pills with a fifth of whiskey.  In this light, show some compassion.

Compassion has nothing to do with it.  We are simply providing alternative points of view to anyone that is willing to listen.  Most of the young you speak of (myself included) are seeking us out.  And I fail to see how atheism would make someone any more likely to kill themselves over a girl/boy.  If anything, it is just as likely to save lives.  How about the homosexual youth that kill themselves because of theism? 

 

A daughter of hope and fear, religion explains to Ignorance the nature of the unknowable. -Ambrose Bierce


rexlunae
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pvatistas wrote: First, let

pvatistas wrote:
First, let me say that I do not believe in Hell, or any other eternal damnation. It just doesn't make any logical sense!

Glad to hear it. I hate it when people succumb to fear.

pvatistas wrote:
I do not feel that any human can possibly interpret the wants or thoughts of a supreme being that created the UNIVERSE! Proof? Just look at the night sky and realize what we are talking about here. Nuf said!

You lost me here. What do you conclude by looking at the night sky and why?

pvatistas wrote:
Now, here is where you and I cross paths...

What about the physical evidence of a divine plan?

I've never seen any.

pvatistas wrote:
Go outside and listen and look around. NOT as a naturalist. NOT as a philosopher. NOT as a religious zealot. Look and listen as a thinking person.

I am what I am. I don't just shut off parts of my brain arbitrarily in order to have certain thoughts. I use my whole brain, and I wouldn't want to do anything else.

pvatistas wrote:
If you take enough time, you are bound to see some of the things that I see.

That depends on what you see. I don't try to superimpose a purpose or design upon nature, if that's what you're getting at.

pvatistas wrote:
For instance, the eyes

So many of us fellow earthlings celebrate our existence on this planet – many of which could not have evolved from the same gene pool as us – yet have common physical attributes

All life on Earth probably evolved from the same ancestors, and certainly all large life. We're distantly related to fish, trees, mushrooms, and all sorts of things that are very different.

pvatistas wrote:
Such as eyes. Not just eyes, but TWO eyes – ON OUR HEAD.

How may eyes should we have, and where? How is the fact that we have two eyes on our heads amazing beyond what evolution can account for?

pvatistas wrote:
How about ears? Same thing, fellow earthling.

Same questions as above.

pvatistas wrote:
If you look at some of the other Classes of animals with this in mind, and you are a thinking person (which I think you MUST be), then you will be truly amazed.

The ability to see and the ability to hear are very useful. It seems likely that natural selection would favor organisms that possess these capabilities.

This seems to be an argument from wonder, but I don't get it. You accept evolution, so why do you feel we need divine intervention for a few random traits? And how would a designer help to explain the cosmos?

pvatistas wrote:
I know you don’t WANT to believe in God.

It's not about wanting to believe or not. It's about the truth. Many of the atheists here would have much easier lives if they were theists, and yet we'd rather pursue the truth first.

pvatistas wrote:
I only ask one favor: If you can see that there is even the slightest CHANCE that I could be correct, please stop targeting the young.

Well, I should be safe then. But I'm not one of those promoting the Blasphemy Challenge, which I assume is what you are talking about.

The truth is, no specific demographic is really being targeted, as much as the media outlets that have covered the BC have tried to construe it that way. Children aren't being avoided either, but religious groups don't avoid children. In fact, they prey on children regularly. All atheists ask is for people to apply some critical thinking to religious claims, and to see them for what they truly are. There's nothing malevolent in that.

pvatistas wrote:
Teenagers need a solid foundation.

I agree, which is why I support teaching them about science, and not superstition.

pvatistas wrote:
Parents are failing in their intended mission. Sometimes, their religion is all they have to get them through the horrifying years of mankind.

That's sad. But, I think it should be noted that religion is the cause of much of the sadness in the world. It's hard to find an atheist who would be willing to be a martyr.

pvatistas wrote:
You know the years. The years when just a girlfriend or boyfriend breaking up with you could cause you to suck on a 9mm. The years when flunking a class could put you over the edge and make you eat a bottle of pills with a fifth of whiskey.

Does believing in something because it makes you feel better make any sense? If it did, I would come up with something much more fun than god.

pvatistas wrote:
In this light, show some compassion.

Atheists don't force people to do anything. The people who come here do so of their own accord. And why do you assume that promoting rational thinking will have a negative impact on people?

pvatistas wrote:
I know you won’t post this letter. After all, you are making money! Good for you. I just got back from Iraq. I was fighting for your right to make money, and I don’t want to stop you. Because of this, I know that this letter will probably go in the crapper.

If this is supposed to be a guilt trip, it isn't necessary. The posts to these forums are not screened, they go up as soon as they are submitted. The only people who generally get banned from posting are those who disrupt the site and it's purpose, and who break the rules. What would be the point of having an Atheist vs. Theist forum if theist posts weren't allowed?

It's only the fairy tales they believe.


Roisin Dubh
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Quote: What about the

Quote:
What about the physical evidence of a divine plan? Go outside and listen and look around. NOT as a naturalist. NOT as a philosopher. NOT as a religious zealot. Look and listen as a thinking person. If you take enough time, you are bound to see some of the things that I see. For instance, the eyes… So many of us fellow earthlings celebrate our existence on this planet – many of which could not have evolved from the same gene pool as us – yet have common physical attributes… Such as eyes. Not just eyes, but TWO eyes – ON OUR HEAD. How about ears? Same thing, fellow earthling. If you look at some of the other Classes of animals with this in mind, and you are a thinking person (which I think you MUST be), then you will be truly amazed. An elephant and a mouse. An aardvark and a human. Here’s a great one: A flea and a dog.

Have you met Boditharta? You two would get along famously.

Quote:
I only ask one favor: If you can see that there is even the slightest CHANCE that I could be correct, please stop targeting the young. Teenagers need a solid foundation.

Yes, teenagers need to be taught how to think critically. How to utilize reason in order to make decisions. Religion is the complete opposite of this, and offers nothing of benefit to a developing mind.

Quote:
Parents are failing in their intended mission.

This has nothing to do with religion. This is a complex issue that cannot and will not be solved by simply easing up on religion.

Quote:
Sometimes, their religion is all they have to get them through the horrifying years of mankind. You know the years… The years when just a girlfriend or boyfriend breaking up with you could cause you to suck on a 9mm.

I had my share of breakups as a teenager, and NONE of them made me want to "suck on a 9mm." These are extreme cases, and the focus should be on getting those kids the proper treatment, and not allowing them to be indoctrinated with nonsense.

Quote:
The years when flunking a class could put you over the edge and make you eat a bottle of pills with a fifth of whiskey. In this light, show some compassion.

Again, you're using extreme and abnormal situations and claiming it to be commonplace. Maybe(I'd bet my house on it) you were one of these kids, and if so that's terrible. However, you would have been better served by a course of therapy and perhaps some Zoloft than any number of hours spent in a church.

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I know you won’t post this letter. After all, you are making money!

If Lakewood Church can do it, why can't we?

Quote:
Good for you. I just got back from Iraq. I was fighting for your right to make money, and I don’t want to stop you.

I don't recall any Iraqis ever hindering my ability to make money.

Quote:
He (more appropriately, a respectful and reverent “IT”) is the Grand Architect of the Universe. It is a loving God that cares deeply about your soul – nothing more. Have a wonderful life on this planet. I like it on this one so much that I think I might come back again!

And we thank the regional director of Up With Reincarnation for stopping by.

 

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


Vastet
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As the god you describe not

As the god you describe not only doesn't require our belief in it, but would not even notice said belief, why bother believing in the first place?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.