Calling Out "The Atheist Jew" about his handle's OXYMORON

Clara Listensprechen
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Calling Out "The Atheist Jew" about his handle's OXYMORON

Being an adherent of Judaism requires a belief in Abraham's God, therefore you can't also be an atheist.

I will head off in advance any attempt you might make to claim that you're somehow ethnically a member of a religion, because NO religion is an ethnicity or race. although the Ashkenazi faction of Judaism fancies itself to be exclusively such.

As long as you insist that you are a Jew, you are a theist. 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


RhadTheGizmo
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I believe he might mean

I believe he might mean that he is a citizen, or his heritage, is traced back to the Jewish State.

That Jewish State, being Isreal. 


Clara Listensprechen
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I'm adding a call out

I'm adding a call out MattShizzle for claiming to be an atheist at the same time believing that there's such a thing as God's Chosen People as a race.

If there is no God, there's no Chosen People either. 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


Clara Listensprechen
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RhadTheGizmo wrote: I

RhadTheGizmo wrote:

I believe he might mean that he is a citizen, or his heritage, is traced back to the Jewish State.

That Jewish State, being Isreal.

"Traced back" as in how? Citizenship papers ONLY?  That's not what MattShizzle was saying--he says that he believes that Chosen People were indeed a real race exclusive of other races, and that's not a matter of citizenship papers.

 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


The Atheist Jew
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Why did Einstein, most

Why did Einstein, most likely an Atheist, Agnostic at worst, leave Europe?  Was he not considered to be a Jew by the Nazis?


RhadTheGizmo
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I did not know what he

I did not know what he said. I was just giving a possible answer-- since many people call themselves Jews even though they do not hold any of the Jewish beliefs.

---

I suppose that he could also claim that the Jewish faith is, in some parts, a completely secular affair.

Which would be a hard argument to make-- I didn't understand it myself completely when someone tried to explain it me.

But yah.. I'll let him answer. Sorry bout that. 


The Atheist Jew
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Do a google search:  Who

Do a google search:  Who is a Jew

You'll find that a Jew is a Jew if their mother was a Jew and/or if they follow Judaism.

 


Krehlic
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Mattshizzle said nothing

Mattshizzle said nothing about 'God's chosen people.' He only said that at one time all jews were of the same ethnicity. Why would you have to believe in God to assert this?

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Exactly. I don't believe

Exactly. I don't believe there is a god to make any people a chosen people. That has nothing to do with understanding Jewishness is both an ethnicity and a religon.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


The Atheist Jew
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Krehlic, she has an agenda

Krehlic, she has an agenda here.  See how she doesn't answer my Einstein question.  It deflates her whole argument.

I know an ethnic kurd in Australia.  She has a blog.  Atheist Girl.  Check it out.

Also check my blog.  I feel stupid, I can't post links here for some reason, but my blog is in my ID here.  I just did the Blasphemy Challenge on my newest post. 


Clara Listensprechen
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It's not me that has an

It's not me that has an Einstein Agenda, sweetie--that would be YOU.

I'm just pointing out the rational response to belief in God's Chosen People--If God doesn't exist, then there's no such thing as Chosen People either. In order to believe in Chosen People, you necessarily believe in the God that Chose them.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


Clara Listensprechen
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MattShizzle wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:
Exactly. I don't believe there is a god to make any people a chosen people. That has nothing to do with understanding Jewishness is both an ethnicity and a religon.

And that is irrational as well as racist. No religion has a legitimate license to exclude membership on the basis of race.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


Clara Listensprechen
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Krehlic wrote: Mattshizzle

Krehlic wrote:
Mattshizzle said nothing about 'God's chosen people.' He only said that at one time all jews were of the same ethnicity....
...because.....?

Because they don't believe in "mixing"?

Because they practice eugenic inbreeding?

Because they believe bloodline is holy?

Because both they and you religiously believe that old Jim Crow "one drop" rule is actually LEGITIMATE?

If you believe ANY or ALL of those things, you could be a racist.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


The Atheist Jew
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Your deflecting is not

Your deflecting is not going unnoticed here.  Not everyone is as retarded as you, or as dishonest.  Nobody cares about YOUR definitions.  They are irrelevant.  You make a false claim or definition and then jump to a conclusion.  That is called a strawmans.

Was Einstein irrational to leave Europe?  Notice how you avoid this.  Everyone else does.

Nobody said Jews were a race, only you.  Ethnicity does not always equal race.

You keep changing words to fit your pathetic agenda.

Now again, did Einstein consider himself to be a Jew? 

 

 


Clara Listensprechen
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The Atheist Jew wrote:

The Atheist Jew wrote:

Do a google search: Who is a Jew

You'll find that a Jew is a Jew if their mother was a Jew and/or if they follow Judaism.

 

 

BEHOLD how the old Jim Crow "one drop" rule rears its ugly head. This is racism.

 

And you might try asking your Einstein questions in a thread where Einstein is the topic, or of somebody who actually gives a shit about Einstein.  I don't, and he's OFF TOPIC in THIS thread. 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


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It is completely on topic

It is completely on topic whether Einstein was a Jew.  You stated that it is impossible for a Jew to be an Atheist. 

I am an Atheist Jew as Einstein was.

Are you saying that Einstein was delusional?  Would Einstein have not gotten jailed and most likely killed if he stayed in Europe?  Why?  because he was an Atheist?  Because he was a scientist?  Or because he was a Jew?

You are admitting defeat here.  I knew I had you, just like I destroyed you on the Raving Atheist board.  I destroyed you so much, you had to go back and erase hundreds of posts because you didn't want your legacy of Jew hatred, and lack of historical knowledge to haunt you on your next board that you decided to infest.

Like I said, it won't be long before you disappear from here.  The board is full of rational thinkers.  They can see right through your claims and avoidances.

Normal debaters don't hide things.  They confront and answer all comers.

You have obviously avoided the Einstein question because you know it shows your stance as being strictly strawman. 

 

 


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So far this is a thread of

So far this is a thread of unsupported assertions by both parties. Almost makes me embarrased to be an atheist.

So, are there specific genetic traits that differ between those that call themselves Jews as an ethnicity and others from the same area of the world who are not considered Jewish? this would be one avenue on which to find evidence of Jewishness being an ethnicity or not an ethnicity.

You people can claim things back and forth forever. I've seen theists do it repeatedly. Try evidence. 

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


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Clara please familiarize

Clara please familiarize yourself with the rules of our forum.  You've got plenty of "antagonism" in this thread, please chill and have the discussion. 

 

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Clara Listensprechen
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I guess you missed the part

Sapient, I guess you missed the part where I posted an introduction and got flamed by Atheist Jew. In the interest of fairness, please make your warning to the flamer as well.

I'm in self defense mode here. I am the attacked, not the attacker. I refer you to the Introduction thread where this party called me a Nazi and other slanderous things.

Be fair.

The hijacking of this thread with slander and antagonism, in violation of rule 2.1, appears to have escaped your attention.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


The Atheist Jew
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Vessel, I'll tackle your

Vessel, I'll tackle your valid question.  Jews go by the matrimonial line, because you always know who the mother is (except for Jack Nicholson, until he was in his 30's:true fact).

That being said, if I know my mother was a Jew, she knew she was a Jew because her  mother was a Jew, etc.  Sure, there are converts, and it becomes convoluted because of that.  But converts have been very low throughout history.  Many people converted out of Judaism though.

Actual evidence.  There was an article last year which stated 1 in four Ashkenazi Jews trace back to 2 or 3 females from 1000 years ago, I think.  I don't have the actual article, but these women were descendants of Jews who left the Palestine region around 2000 years ago.

There is also a Jewish culture.  I've often heard Atheist Irish to say there is such a thing a Catholic culture that they still identify with. 

 


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Clara Listensprechen

Clara Listensprechen wrote:

Sapient, I guess you missed the part where I posted an introduction and got flamed by Atheist Jew.

I did miss that and I'll take a look.

Quote:
In the interest of fairness, please make your warning to the flamer as well.

Thanks, but in the interest of keeping our roles seperate, please leave the modding to the mods.

 

Quote:
I'm in self defense mode here. I am the attacked, not the attacker.

I'm also aware of your past actions at raving atheist in which it seemed you lost this debate in the past and proceeded to delete all your posts on the topic.  Please don't do that here. 

For future reference, the proper recourse if you feel you were attacked on this board is to write a moderator instead of starting a thread attacking your attacker.

 

Quote:
I refer you to the Introduction thread where this party called me a Nazi and other slanderous things.  Be fair.

I'm on my way.

 

- Brian Sapient


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The Atheist Jew
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Sapient, I found her intro

Sapient, I found her intro to be inflammatory.  And I hope you understand why I reacted this way when I saw her posting here.

Calling her a nazi was just a continuation on my part from the Raving Atheist board.  I can't prove that she is a nazi, but I can prove she is obsessed with Jews and doesn't like Jews very much, and she denies the Holocaust on top of it, which kind of gets my emotions going.

Did you see my video by the way.   I'm a ham, I need to know if you saw it and enjoyed it. 


Clara Listensprechen
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Vessel wrote: So far this

Vessel wrote:

So far this is a thread of unsupported assertions by both parties. Almost makes me embarrased to be an atheist.

So, are there specific genetic traits that differ between those that call themselves Jews as an ethnicity and others from the same area of the world who are not considered Jewish? this would be one avenue on which to find evidence of Jewishness being an ethnicity or not an ethnicity.

The claim is that they're semitic, and exclusively so,  utilizing the old Jim Crow "one drop" rule to define who is semitic, even Europeans.  There are a number of problems with this premise:

1) Arabs are semitic without being Jews.

2) The religion excludes people that don't meet the genetic one-drop andard, ergo the charge of racism. People cannot be Jewish without meeting that one-drop standard. Exclusion on basis of race.

Quote:
You people can claim things back and forth forever. I've seen theists do it repeatedly. Try evidence.

The evidence stand before you in the very belief in genetic segregation AT ALL.  Before you is a "people" who, by tenet, are Chosen People as if every other variety of human being enjoyed less of God's favor.  Jewishness is a culture dependent on belief in a God that chose a particular race to be defined as a race, defined by blood rather than belief.

It's akin to the bloodline belief of Hindus that establish the Brahmin caste and every other lesser-class castes right down to the Untouchables.  Bloodline racism is, across the board, reprehensible, even when the Parsee practice it.

Now then--here on an allegedly rational board with alleged atheists, we have come across those who are so-called but who also expect me to be rational when it comes to Christians and Muslims, but who irrationally expect me to give Judaism a pass.

This is not rational by any stretch of the imagination. 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


Sapient
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The Atheist Jew wrote: and

The Atheist Jew wrote:

and she denies the Holocaust on top of it

A violation of an irrational precept:

 http://www.rationalresponders.com/hamurookis_irrational_precepts

 

Quote:
Did you see my video by the way.   I'm a ham, I need to know if you saw it and enjoyed it. 

I'm not sure I watched it, I got the email of it, but I don't think I ever got to see.  Can you link me?

- Brian Sapient


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Clara Listensprechen
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Sapient wrote:

Sapient wrote:

I'm also aware of your past actions at raving atheist in which it seemed you lost this debate in the past and proceeded to delete all your posts on the topic. Please don't do that here.

Your interpretation of a pile-on as a rational "debate" is disturbing. I didn't lose what wasn't there.

It is not rational to challenge religion while expecting an exception to be given for Judaism; like every other religion, it should not enjoy such protected status as you seem to be inclined to give it.

Until such time as rationality prevails among those who claim to embrace it, I withdraw my support of your efforts.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


Krehlic
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The only person saying

The only person saying anything about 'God's chosen people' here is you, Clara. Whether a people believe they are 'God's chosen people' or not does not change their ethnicity. Also, you are the only person to mention a 'one drop' rule.

Einstein is relative to this topic as he was a Jew AND an atheist. Once, he was a Jew both by religion and ethnicity, then he became an atheist, but was still a Jew by ethnicity.

I expected you to address Athiest_Jew's question about Einstein, especially after he said you wouldn't, but it would appear he knows you well.

And why are you so quick to call people racist? Do you think that to speak of race is being racist? No, if anyone here is racist, its you.

 

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Why do you continue to

Why do you continue to lie?  Show me where Jews exclusively call themselves semites?  Are you going by the definition anti-semite that was coined in Europe by self acclaimed Jew hater?  He made up the word and directed it only at Jews, nothing to do with Arabs.

Blame it on the English language, but the term anti-semite is used to describe Jew haters like you.  I purposely call you a Jew hater and try to avoid anti-semite because you think that is some sort of point for you.

 Again, why did Atheist Jew Einstein leave Europe?  Did Einstein not perceive himself as an Atheist Jew?  Was he wrong to?  Would Hitler have partied with him because he didn't believe in God?


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Where do you get the idea

Where do you get the idea "Jews are exempt?" Yeah, the Jewish religion is irrational, too. There was even a Jew debated on one of the shows. Where are you getting some of your assumptions? And you need to answer whether you actually deny the holocaust. If you do, that speaks a lot.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


The Atheist Jew
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Sapient, I'm using Mozilla

Sapient, I'm using Mozilla and for some reason I have lost the ability to paste here.

If you click my ID, you'll see my blog addy.  Click it, it is the post at the top.  I even included your Nightline appearance on my post.

You'll like my video.  I think it is pretty funny. 


triften
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Clara Listensprechen

Clara Listensprechen wrote:

2) The religion excludes people that don't meet the genetic one-drop andard, ergo the charge of racism. People cannot be Jewish without meeting that one-drop standard. Exclusion on basis of race.

People can't convert? Are you sure?

It seems like you don't understand that being Jewish can involve both ancestry and religion. Some people are Jewish in that their parents (or parent) is/was Jewish but they aren't religious, in the same way that one can be Italian without being Catholic (hence, "Jewish Atheist".) Others are Jewish in that they embrace the religion (yes, people convert.) Many are both.

It's like getting mad because you can't call yourself Italian without actually having Italian ancestry.

-Triften 


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