Is a free thinker allowed to believe a Creator exists??

Drew_theist
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Is a free thinker allowed to believe a Creator exists??

Can a person be free to think that God exists and be call themselves a freethinker?

Or are freethinkers 'forbidden' from thinking a creator exists?

Are freethinkers allowed to be skeptical of the theory of evolution or would that violate one of the bylaws?

Perhaps I should start an I'm a freethinker who believes in God challenge hmmm?

 


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Do you rationalize right or

Do you rationalize right or wrong, real or unreal, possible or impossible, by your own reason and observations? Or do you rationalize based on an ancient dogmatic religious book or teaching that dictates these things for you?

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Drew_theist wrote: Can a

Drew_theist wrote:

Can a person be free to think that God exists and be call themselves a freethinker?

Or are freethinkers 'forbidden' from thinking a creator exists?

Are freethinkers allowed to be skeptical of the theory of evolution or would that violate one of the bylaws?

Perhaps I should start an I'm a freethinker who believes in God challenge hmmm?

 

I would say, yes. A freethinker allows his/her self to question anything, no matter how taboo. If you find theist's arguments convincing, by all means believe. But if you're a freethinker, you'd keep an open mind about possibly being wrong or mistaken.


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Drew_theist wrote: Can a

Drew_theist wrote:

Can a person be free to think that God exists and be call themselves a freethinker?

Or are freethinkers 'forbidden' from thinking a creator exists?

 

A freethinker would begin by learning about the topics that he wishes to debate, he would refrain from making grand pronouncements, (such as you do about cosmology, despite not being well 'versed' in the matter) and he would be open to conceding the limits of human understanding.

 

Tell me how that jibes with saying 'godidit'?

 

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Hello Krehlic,   Quote:

Hello Krehlic,

 

Quote:
Do you rationalize right or wrong, real or unreal, possible or impossible, by your own reason and observations?

 

Are you suggesting that is what a free-thinker does and thus makes one a freethinker?

If I believe God exists by applying my own reason and observation can I then call myself a freethinker who believes in the existence of God?

 

Or do you rationalize based on an ancient dogmatic religious book or teaching that dictates these things for you?

 

So then communists who subscribe to Marxism are not freethinkers?


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If you follow and believe

If you follow and believe something such as the Bible because you have investigated it rationally and come to the conclusion that it must be correct, then I'd say you are a freethinker. However, if you believe and live by it simply because you were taught to do so as a child, then you are not a freethinker. Likewise, if you rationalize inconsistencies and contradictions by reason of faith and not observable, testable logic, then you are not a freethinker.

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Drew_theist wrote: Can a

Drew_theist wrote:

Can a person be free to think that God exists and be call themselves a freethinker?

Or are freethinkers 'forbidden' from thinking a creator exists?

Are freethinkers allowed to be skeptical of the theory of evolution or would that violate one of the bylaws?

Perhaps I should start an I'm a freethinker who believes in God challenge hmmm?

Allowed or disallowed by whom, pray tell? Freethinkers by definition don't have people dictate to them what they can or can't think.  Duh.

Seems to me that the Thought Police are a product of exclusively theism even in totalitarian regimes where the Supreme Leader/Beloved Leader substitutes for God as object of worship.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


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Drew_theist wrote:   So

Drew_theist wrote:

 

So then communists who subscribe to Marxism are not freethinkers?

You do realize that marxist-lennonist ideology was meant to be held as a dogma, don't  you?

Aren't we all waiting for our share of winter wheat? 

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MrRage wrote: Drew_theist

MrRage wrote:
Drew_theist wrote:

Can a person be free to think that God exists and be call themselves a freethinker?

Or are freethinkers 'forbidden' from thinking a creator exists?

Are freethinkers allowed to be skeptical of the theory of evolution or would that violate one of the bylaws?

Perhaps I should start an I'm a freethinker who believes in God challenge hmmm?

 

I would say, yes. A freethinker allows his/her self to question anything, no matter how taboo. If you find theist's arguments convincing, by all means believe. But if you're a freethinker, you'd keep an open mind about possibly being wrong or mistaken.

 I'd say you hit the nail on the head, there--freethinkers aren't among those who make statements about Absolute Truths like theists do, and are capable of readjusting their assessments of things pending additional information at a later date.

 The theist, on the other hand, thinks he already knows it all.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


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Quote: A freethinker

Quote:
A freethinker would begin by learning about the topics that he wishes to debate,

 

Well that would exclude many of the folks I know who call themselves free thinkers who have never had an original thought and who buy into every atheist sound bite that comes down the pike without applying a modicum of critical thinking.

Quote:
Tell me how that jibes with saying 'godidit'?

 

About the equivalence among many freethinkers that 'naturedidit'

 


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Quote: 'naturedidit' LOL S

Quote:
'naturedidit'

LOL

Silly theist! dont you know that there are massive amounts of evidence to show nature/evolution to be the more likely, and frankly, reasonable answer.

Check your facts dear.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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MrRage,   Quote: I would

MrRage,

 

Quote:
I would say, yes. A freethinker allows his/her self to question anything, no matter how taboo. If you find theist's arguments convincing, by all means believe. But if you're a freethinker, you'd keep an open mind about possibly being wrong or mistaken.

Good answer! I wonder how many freethinkers actually do have an open mind?


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But it doesn't end there,

But it doesn't end there, A_A.  How naturedidit (natural selection) was adopted by agribusiness to do artifically do what nature has always done, and that's why we have farm animals and produce that didn't exist even a couple hundred years ago, nevermind didn't exist when God supposedly created the world.

 Nothing you eat on your plate existed when God supposedly created the world--thru artificial selection and hybridization, mankind created what you're eating.  God had nothing to do with it.

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


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Drew_theist

Drew_theist wrote:

MrRage,

 

Quote:
I would say, yes. A freethinker allows his/her self to question anything, no matter how taboo. If you find theist's arguments convincing, by all means believe. But if you're a freethinker, you'd keep an open mind about possibly being wrong or mistaken.

Good answer! I wonder how many freethinkers actually do have an open mind?

 If a person is a freethinker, his/her mind is indeed open, but with the caveat that such people are astute enough to recognize a figment of imagination when they see it.  It takes a theist to be incapable of making such distinctions.

See also Bill Moyers' series, "Faith and Reason". 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


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Drew_theist wrote: Well

Drew_theist wrote:
Well that would exclude many of the folks I know who call themselves free thinkers who have never had an original thought and who buy into every atheist sound bite that comes down the pike without applying a modicum of critical thinking.

Do you realize how hard it is to have a truly original thought? There's just so much to learn, everyone has to rely on the expertise of others. Being a freethinker has nothing to do with coming up with everything originally.


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Drew_theist

Drew_theist wrote:

MrRage,

 

Quote:
I would say, yes. A freethinker allows his/her self to question anything, no matter how taboo. If you find theist's arguments convincing, by all means believe. But if you're a freethinker, you'd keep an open mind about possibly being wrong or mistaken.

Good answer! I wonder how many freethinkers actually do have an open mind?

If they don't have an open mind, they're not freethinkers. Openness of mind is a necessary condition to being a freethinker.


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Hello AA,   Quote: Silly

Hello AA,

 

Quote:
Silly theist! dont you know that there are massive amounts of evidence to show nature/evolution to be the more likely, and frankly, reasonable answer.

Check your facts dear.

 

So its not possible to be a freethinker and be skeptical of evolution or believe a Creator of the universe exists?


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lol. Naturedidit. That's

lol. Naturedidit. That's pretty funny.

BTW, you can be skeptical of evolution. Though, in that event I would say you are either poorly informed or basing your skepticism on your religious faith. 

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Dear Clara, Quote:  If a

Dear Clara,

Quote:
 If a person is a freethinker, his/her mind is indeed open, but with the caveat that such people are astute enough to recognize a figment of imagination when they see it.  It takes a theist to be incapable of making such distinctions.

Except in your case in that your mind is totally closed towards the possibility a Creator exists...Evidently you are not a freethinker.


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Quote: lol. Naturedidit.

Quote:
lol. Naturedidit. That's pretty funny.

Even funnier if you ask how nature came into existence it turns out nature did that too!

Quote:
BTW, you can be skeptical of evolution. Though, in that event I would say you are either poorly informed or basing your skepticism on your religious faith. 

Actually, I'm not skeptical of evolution...I'm skeptical of Darwinism but thats a topic for another thread.

 

 


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I doubt you will find

I doubt you will find anyone here that claims that they KNOW there is no god. They would, however, say that the existence of one if extremely unlikely.

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Ah, the unmoved mover

Ah, the unmoved mover argument. So, how does a mover not need a mover itself?

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Quote: I doubt you will

Quote:
I doubt you will find anyone here that claims that they KNOW there is no god. They would, however, say that the existence of one if extremely unlikely.

Yes the old I'm a weak atheist intellectual dodge.

Ironic that most atheists and all theists share the same belief... that God might exist.

 


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As far as the Abrahamic god

As far as the Abrahamic god goes, I am a very strong atheist. I don't deny the remote posibility of it's existence, but that is so remote I will never worry on it.

Nearly all atheists are agnostic to a degree, but most of the people here are of the highest.

Edit: Note, I have to go, I'll pick back up in an hour or so. 

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Drew_theist

Drew_theist wrote:

Quote:
A freethinker would begin by learning about the topics that he wishes to debate,

 

Well that would exclude many of the folks I know

It excludes you, at least as far as your cosmological 'arguments' go.

Quote:
 

who call themselves free thinkers who have never had an original thought

And you of course, have original thoughts.

 

Quote:
 

and who buy into every atheist sound bite that comes down the pike without applying a modicum of critical thinking.

What a hollow complaint coming from a dogmatist. Theism is inculcated into children before they are entrusted with going to the bathroom on their own.

 Your complaint seems more like a projection.

 

Quote:
Tell me how that jibes with saying 'godidit'?

 

Quote:
 

About the equivalence among many freethinkers that 'naturedidit'

 

You avoided answering the question. Tell me how being a free thinker jibes with making appeals to the supernatural, based on ignorance?

 Oh , and one other thing: your tit for tat appeal to symmerty fails: the problem with 'nature did it' for you, is that natural arguments can be shown to work.

"goddidit' is an appeal to supernaturalism.

 

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Drew_theist wrote: Hello

Drew_theist wrote:

Hello AA,

 

Quote:
Silly theist! dont you know that there are massive amounts of evidence to show nature/evolution to be the more likely, and frankly, reasonable answer.

Check your facts dear.

So its not possible to be a freethinker and be skeptical of evolution or believe a Creator of the universe exists?

To be a freethinking skeptic of evolution is plausible, but it would first require that you actually knew about evolution.

Arguing from personal ignorance and special pleading to supernaturalism is not free thinking. It's giving up. 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

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Krehlic, Quote: Ah, the

Krehlic,

Quote:
Ah, the unmoved mover argument. So, how does a mover not need a mover itself?

 

Did you apply any critical thinking to that sound bite?

If you want to see my arguments I'm making a case in the Atheist vs Theist thread. To answer your question even if the mover did need a mover then atheism is wrong and theism is correct, right?


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Drew_theist wrote: Hello

Drew_theist wrote:
Hello AA,

Quote:
Silly theist! dont you know that there are massive amounts of evidence to show nature/evolution to be the more likely, and frankly, reasonable answer.

Check your facts dear.

So its not possible to be a freethinker and be skeptical of evolution or believe a Creator of the universe exists?

It is absolutely possible to be skeptical of evolution. I am skeptical of evolution. I question everything I have an interest in. I apply what I know to what is presented, and I make up my own mind. From what I currently know about creationism and evolution, my conclusion (which is subject to change) is that evolution is the most accurate explanation as to how we, as humans, came to exist.

I do not limit my thought to what authority figures say, though I do take it into consideration. Everything I know and what ever books, documentaries (etc) I can get my hands on are also considered.

Freethinkers consider the evidence and make up their own minds.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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Drew_theist wrote: Quote:

Drew_theist wrote:

Quote:
I doubt you will find anyone here that claims that they KNOW there is no god. They would, however, say that the existence of one if extremely unlikely.

Yes the old I'm a weak atheist intellectual dodge.

Ironic that most atheists and all theists share the same belief... that God might exist.

 

How is weak atheism a dodge? It's merely a position. Atheists and theists share plenty of beliefs. There's nothing ironic about it.


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Drew_theist wrote: Quote:

Drew_theist wrote:

Quote:
I doubt you will find anyone here that claims that they KNOW there is no god. They would, however, say that the existence of one if extremely unlikely.

Yes the old I'm a weak atheist intellectual dodge.

1) You should tread lightly when charging people about intellectual dodges, theist. Appeals to faith are intellectual dodges of the highest order.

2) Holding that one does not hold to a belief, while also conceding that one does not have a deductive disproof, is rational, not an intelectual dodge. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite of an 'intellectual dodge'

  

Quote:

Ironic that most atheists and all theists share the same belief... that God might exist.

 

The only irony here exists in your ignorance of what weak atheism actually is: a lack of belief, sans a deductive disproof. That does not mean that one 'believes god might exist' that merely speaks to the limits of inductive reasoning. 

A free thinker begins by learning what he's talking about... he measures his comments against his evidence, he withholds making grand judgements, particulary about subjects he's ignorant of...

So far, you've demonstrated a basic ignorance concerning every topic you've discussed here. Yet there's no end of grand pronouncements from you...


 

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MrRage wrote:     How is

MrRage wrote:

 

  How is weak atheism a dodge? 

He's just spouting uncritically swallowed soundbites.... 

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Clara Listensprechen

Clara Listensprechen wrote:

But it doesn't end there, A_A. How naturedidit (natural selection) was adopted by agribusiness to do artifically do what nature has always done, and that's why we have farm animals and produce that didn't exist even a couple hundred years ago, nevermind didn't exist when God supposedly created the world.

Nothing you eat on your plate existed when God supposedly created the world--thru artificial selection and hybridization, mankind created what you're eating. God had nothing to do with it.

 

I fully agree. As a matter of fact, just yesterday, I was discussing how cows and bananas were genetically modified by humans, with my 9yo. (simpler terms of course) Watching him process that was amazing .... thinking, questioning .... amazing.

 

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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Krehlic,   Quote: As far

Krehlic,

 

Quote:
As far as the Abrahamic god goes, I am a very strong atheist.

 

Being an atheist is a disbelief (or to the timid) lack of belief in all gods. Strongly disbelieving in specific gods doesn’t make you a strong atheist. That would be like saying you only lack belief in the existence of football but you strongly disbelieve in the forward pass.

 

Quote:
And you of course, have original thoughts.

 

Some once and awhile.

 

Quote:
What a hollow complaint coming from a dogmatist. Theism is inculcated into children before they are entrusted with going to the bathroom on their own.

 

If theism were demonstrably false no amount of inculcation would result in over 85% of the population subscribing to theism. People continue to believe in theism because it makes sense of their experience and situation.

 

Quote:
You avoided answering the question. Tell me how being a free thinker jibes with making appeals to the supernatural, based on ignorance?

 

You’re referring to my thread in Atheism vs Theism where I am making a case for theism based on evidence not ignorance. Something you may try in response rather than smearing my character in this thread…

 

But one can only live up to one’s abilities.   

 

 


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Quote: If you follow and

Quote:

If you follow and believe something such as the Bible because you have investigated it rationally and come to the conclusion that it must be correct, then I'd say you are a freethinker.

Yeah! I am a freethinker! Finally!

Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom,
StMichael

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Drew_theist

Drew_theist wrote:

Krehlic,

If theism were demonstrably false no amount of inculcation would result in over 85% of the population subscribing to theism. People continue to believe in theism because it makes sense of their experience and situation.

No, no, and no again.

1) That's an appeal to popularity. Once upon a time, 85% of the population believed that the Sun literally rose in the morning. And hey, that was based on evidence too. After all, we SEE it rise, don't we??

2) Most of that 85% believe in theism because they haven't researched alternatives - either through choice or because they're simply unable to.


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todangst   Quote: 1) You

todangst

 

Quote:
1) You should tread lightly when charging people about intellectual dodges, theist. Appeals to faith are intellectual dodges of the highest order.

 

I agree, that is why I challenged folks to a debate about theism vs materialism in the Atheist vs Thiest thread and I am appealing to evidence and reason not faith.

 

Quote:
2) Holding that one does not hold to a belief, while also conceding that one does not have a deductive disproof, is rational, not an intelectual dodge. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite of an 'intellectual dodge'

 

It is an intellectual dodge when sites like this and others hold theists and the notion of a God in absolute ridicule disdain and contempt, bash theism from pillar to post and then when confronted suddenly turn into weak atheists who can’t even bring themselves to say categorically God doesn’t exist and then have the gall to claim the burden of proof is with the theist.

 

Quote:
The only irony here exists in your ignorance of what weak atheism actually is: a lack of belief, sans a deductive disproof. That does not mean that one 'believes god might exist' that merely speaks to the limits of inductive reasoning.

 

Lack of belief means you concede the claim might be true but you decline to embrace such a claim. That is exactly what atheists say all the time, ‘I’m not saying God doesn’t exist…I just lack that belief.’

 

 


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Drew_Theist,Do you believe

Drew_Theist,
Do you believe there is a good chance God does not exist?

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Drew_theist wrote: It is an

Drew_theist wrote:
It is an intellectual dodge when sites like this and others hold theists and the notion of a God in absolute ridicule disdain and contempt, bash theism from pillar to post and then when confronted suddenly turn into weak atheists who can’t even bring themselves to say categorically God doesn’t exist and then have the gall to claim the burden of proof is with the theist.

One can do all the activities you mentioned and still be a weak atheist. I wish more theist would join me in my weak atheism, that's why I attack it.

We have the gall to claim the burden of proof is with the theist because the theist is the one making the claims! It's a innocent until proven guilty type of thing.


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Drew_theist wrote: Dear

Drew_theist wrote:

Dear Clara,

Quote:
If a person is a freethinker, his/her mind is indeed open, but with the caveat that such people are astute enough to recognize a figment of imagination when they see it. It takes a theist to be incapable of making such distinctions.

Except in your case in that your mind is totally closed towards the possibility a Creator exists...Evidently you are not a freethinker.

 

You have wrongfully put words in my mouth. Cease and desist misrepresenting me and my position.  Thank you. 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


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StMichael wrote: Quote:

StMichael wrote:
Quote:
If you follow and believe something such as the Bible because you have investigated it rationally and come to the conclusion that it must be correct, then I'd say you are a freethinker.
Yeah! I am a freethinker! Finally! Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom, StMichael

Which version? And don't just say "Catholic version" because there are different versions of that, too. 

I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible. {Michael Bakunin 1814-1876}


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Yep. The One, Holy,

Yep. The One, Holy, Apostolic, and Catholic Church. The Catholic canon is the only correct one. Ah, the beauty of not having to worry about differing versions Smiling We, of course, do accept many different versions. We just only accept those approved by the Church as reliable.

Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom,
StMichael

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Krehlic,   Quote:

Krehlic,

 

Quote:
Drew_Theist,
Do you believe there is a good chance God does not exist?

 

No, I think the odds are more likely God does exist. I don’t deny the possibility I could be mistaken and have asked atheists on countless occasions to make there case God doesn’t exist. You know what they say? ‘Were not the ones making any claims and we don’t claim God doesn’t exist we just lack belief God does exist.’

 

If the majority of atheists themselves don’t deny the possibility God exists why should they gripe if theists do believe God exists?

 

Make no mistake Krehlic, you are not on a website that merely claims a lack of belief in God, this website holds belief in God and theists on the highest order of contempt and disdain and I think people who make such claims should be accountable…don’t you?

 

Mr.Rage

 

Drew_theist wrote:

It is an intellectual dodge when sites like this and others hold theists and the notion of a God in absolute ridicule disdain and contempt, bash theism from pillar to post and then when confronted suddenly turn into weak atheists who can’t even bring themselves to say categorically God doesn’t exist and then have the gall to claim the burden of proof is with the theist.


Quote:
One can do all the activities you mentioned and still be a weak atheist.
Quote:


True, but that’s why I think it is an intellectual dodge.


Quote:
We have the gall to claim the burden of proof is with the theist because the theist is the one making the claims! It's a innocent until proven guilty type of thing.


Wise up Mr Rage and read some of the dozens of articles and essays on this page they are loaded with claims and pronouncements.

 


Krehlic
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Ok, to make a positive

Ok, to make a positive claim such as "God exists" does put the burden of proof on you. I'm sorry to break it to you, but there's no way out of it. If it is the job of the disbeliever to disprove the existence of a god, then you better get to work on the rest of the gods of all the religions of the world, dead and current. Otherwise, by your logic, they must all exist.

I don't know about how strongly other people here feel, but I believe tthe god of the Bible is just as likely to exist as Zeus or Thor. Now, if you think that the odds are in favor of God's existence, I would love to see the evidence to support that claim.

I can certainly speak for myself and can assume that I am speaking for most, if not all, other atheists on these forums when I say that I do not hold theists themselves in any level of contempt or disdain. It is their beliefs and faith in untestable gods that I hate. If I hated theists then I would have to hate most of my friends and family as well. Though, while on this subject, many of the people I would have called good friends (theists) in the past hate me now that I am an atheist.

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StMichael wrote: Quote:

StMichael wrote:
Quote:
If you follow and believe something such as the Bible because you have investigated it rationally and come to the conclusion that it must be correct, then I'd say you are a freethinker.
Yeah! I am a freethinker! Finally! Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom, StMichael

The key word in there is 'rationally'.

If a theist (most of all, Christains, as I can speak from experience) investigates his own beliefs and comes to the conclusion that he was correct all along, then he either has a very lacking collection of resources or collects information for the sole porpose of proving himself right. 

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Drew_theist wrote: Being

Drew_theist wrote:

Being an atheist is a disbelief (or to the timid) lack of belief in all gods. Strongly disbelieving in specific gods doesn’t make you a strong atheist. That would be like saying you only lack belief in the existence of football but you strongly disbelieve in the forward pass.

You know very well what I meant. 

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That only begins with the

That only begins with the presumption that all theists are wrong. I thought a freethinker must be open to the truth Eye-wink

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Psalm 50(1):8. For behold thou hast loved truth: the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom thou hast made manifest to me.


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Drew_theist

Drew_theist wrote:
 

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And you of course, have original thoughts.

Some once and awhile.

So you say, yet so far, you've done little more than spout every sort of nonsense I've seen before, most of it easily refuted by someone who actually knows something about the topic.

 

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What a hollow complaint coming from a dogmatist. Theism is inculcated into children before they are entrusted with going to the bathroom on their own.

Quote:
 

If theism were demonstrably false no amount of inculcation would result in over 85% of the population subscribing to theism.

Nonsense, even you don't buy that argument. You have no problem out all admitting that Judaism is false, Islam is false, Buddhism is false... you recognize that billions of people hold to claims that you can easily see are false.

 

Quote:
You avoided answering the question. Tell me how being a free thinker jibes with making appeals to the supernatural, based on ignorance?

Quote:
 

You’re referring to my thread in Atheism vs Theism where I am making a case for theism

No. Stop. I asked you, in here, in this thread, how free thinking jibes with appeals to the supernatural.

 

  

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StMichael wrote: That only

StMichael wrote:
That only begins with the presumption that all theists are wrong. I thought a freethinker must be open to the truth Eye-wink Yours In Christ, Eternal Wisdom, StMichael

 

What a classic projection... you already assume your position is the truth, and in reality, you consider 'free thinking' to be any thinking that agrees with you on the 'truth' 

As usual, you have it backwards... free thinking involves being open to being wrong... in other words, free thinking is defined in contradistinction to dogmatic thinking and theistic faith.

 

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I'm open-minded in pursuit

I'm open-minded in pursuit of the truth. I'm just not open-minded enough to let my brains fall out onto the floor.

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Psalm 50(1):8. For behold thou hast loved truth: the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom thou hast made manifest to me.


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So, in other words, you are

So, in other words, you are open minded to anything that does not contradict your religion.

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Drew_theist wrote: It is

Drew_theist wrote:

It is an intellectual dodge when sites like this and others hold theists and the notion of a God in absolute ridicule disdain and contempt, bash theism from pillar to post and then when confronted suddenly turn into weak atheists who can’t even bring themselves to say categorically God doesn’t exist and then have the gall to claim the burden of proof is with the theist.

MrRage wrote:
One can do all the activities you mentioned and still be a weak atheist.

Drew_theist wrote:
True, but that’s why I think it is an intellectual dodge.

I don't see what your point is then. I inferred from you earlier post that you're saying we act like strong atheist, but when we're cornered somehow we have to admit to being mere weak atheist. Could you show me where this is going on?

MrRage wrote:
We have the gall to claim the burden of proof is with the theist because the theist is the one making the claims! It's a innocent until proven guilty type of thing.

Drew_theist wrote:
Wise up Mr Rage and read some of the dozens of articles and essays on this page they are loaded with claims and pronouncements.

Well, wise me up. How is this relevant to who has the burden of proof?