Theology Web wants to discuss their rules...

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Theology Web wants to discuss their rules...

This thread was started because one of the founders of Theology Web came here after seeing a claim made by Todangst.

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Dee Dee Warren
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Hello Todangst, good to see

Hello Todangst, good to see you. For the members who do not know me, I am one of the owners of TheologyWeb. What you said is utterly false. Perhaps you are simply mistaken. I would like to discuss your statement with you. If it is not appropriate to discuss it here (I do not wish to break your rules), let me know if you would be interested in discussing it on TheologyWeb.

Listen, it is your business to ban who you will. It really doesn't matter what I think about that quite honestly. However, you asserted something blatantly untrue about TheologyWeb and that I do care about. Knowing you for the short time that I do, I believe that you would not want to say something objectively false, so I ask that you please engage in that conversation either here if we can be respectful to each other (I promise that on my part to you) or at TheologyWeb if not appropriate here. I promise that a TheologyWeb thread will be respectful to you as well in my communications to you - I have no control over other posters (but I will do everything in my power to insure it is a respectful discussion), but I am posting this to you in absolute good faith and belief that you have no desire to post untruths about another forum.

 

Thank you. You can grab my email from my profile if you want to respond by that way.

 


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Upon review of the mods,

Upon review of the mods, Trout will be banned.

A word of note: I find it interesting that if an atheist were to behave like Trout has done on his home site, TWEB, they would have been banned more than a month ago. This site has tolerated his behavior for quite a while now, but he's repeatedly made it clear that his main interests are in trolling the boards. 

 

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Thank you for starting this

Thank you for starting this thread.  Let me let you know what my concern was.

 

Quote:
I find it interesting that if an atheist were to behave like Trout has done on his home site, TWEB, they would have been banned more than a month ago.

 

Trout joined here 11/29/06.  Over a month ago would put it right after his joining.  Let's take for the sake of argument (which obviously I don't agree wtih, but I am taking this for the sake of argument) - he was a troll that kept bringing up refuted points.  Am I understanding the charge against him correctly?

 

We have TONS of people like that at TheologyWeb.  It is extraordinary hard to get banned at TheologyWeb and RARELY is it ever a first resort.  So to say that someone like Trout (taking your grievance as accurate for the sake of argument) were to be at TheologyWeb, it is not true they would have been banned quickly.  Most problem posters take over a year to get banned, and that is after numerous warnings and usually it takes over two years with periods of temporary suspension first.

 

You see, we as a forum has a very lenient moderation policy.  We get a lot of flack for that, but it is something that we actively cultivate.  So to see that we would have banned someone we saw as a troll within days of their joining simply is not true, and I would like Todangst to acknowledge his error.

 

Now are there offenses that would result in a quick banning?  Yes.  Posting hardcore pornography and hard profanity when one knows better for one, plus likely a few I am not thinking of.  However, none of them are for the type of trolling that Trout is accused of.  And even posting profanity is not an automatic heave-ho.  A prominent atheist member who totally knew better let lose in a fit of profanity to one of our upper staff, and after he was suspended for about a month, I campaigned heavily to allow him back in if he agreed not to do so again.

 

That is really all I wanted to clear up. 


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Dee Dee Warren

Dee Dee Warren wrote:

Hello Todangst, good to see you. For the members who do not know me, I am one of the owners of TheologyWeb. What you said is utterly false.

No, it's true. All the old Infidelguy posters are aware of the intolerance practed on your site, several of us were banned within one day of posting.

 

Quote:

Perhaps you are simply mistaken.

Perhaps you're simply lying.

 

Quote:

Listen, it is your business to ban who you will. It really doesn't matter what I think about that quite honestly. However, you asserted something blatantly untrue about TheologyWeb a

No, it's completely true. I'd advise looking over some of the threads devoted to precisely this matter, on the old infidelguy site.

Unfortunately, you'll have to do a cache search:

 

HERE IS THE THREAD YOU NEED TO VISIT IN GOOGLE CACHE.

 

 

This particular thread devoted to the topic had to be placed in the "enter the darkness' section of the site because of all the open trolling by TWEB members.

 

 

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Dee Dee Warren

Dee Dee Warren wrote:

However, you asserted something blatantly untrue about TheologyWeb and that I do care about.

For the record you harbor blatantly untrue claims about the Rational Response Squad and people involved with no repercussion.  None of us have taken the time to come to your site because you have a reputation for banning atheists too quickly.  I'm not saying the reputation is true, I haven't experienced for myself, I'm saying you have a reputation.  I wouldn't know for myself as I don't spend time on your site, because of this reputation.

  

Quote:
I promise that a TheologyWeb thread will be respectful to you as well in my communications to you - I have no control over other posters (but I will do everything in my power to insure it is a respectful discussion),

On your board you do in fact have control over other posters.  And if you care about untrue claims on message boards I suggest you start at home.  Every post from Frank Walton would be a good start.

 

You can have the conversation here.

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Dee Dee Warren
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Todangst, I am saddened by

Todangst, I am saddened by your response to me.  I welcomed you with open arms to TheologyWeb and only posted here because I felt you a person of good character.

 

Quote:
No, it's true. All the old Infidelguy posters are aware of the intolerance practed on your site, several of us were banned within one day of posting.

 

Can you please give me examples?  I would like to look into it.  It isn't anything I am aware of, and I would like to know exactly what it is we are being accused of.  Is that fair? 

 

Quote:
Perhaps you're simply lying.

 

Well gee Todangst, that was uncalled for.  Thanks for hurting my feelings.  I came here on good faith because we had very good relations on TWeb, and I rarely go to atheist sites. I felt comfortable coming here because I knew you and had a good opinion of you.  I would like for you to back up your accusation of my lying.  I don't know what the rules here are for that, but on TheologyWeb one has to back up a charge of lying. 

Quote:
No,  it's completely true. I'd advise looking over some of the threads devoted to precisely this matter, on the old infidelguy site.

 

I have browsed the II site and an not aware of any such thing.  You are much more familiar with it than I, can you give me some links?  I would like to review the situation. 

 

Quote:

I see no need to waste anymore time with you on the matter.

 

Then why did you start this thread?  Is there anything at all I said to you to warrant this kind of treatment?  

 

Quote:
Glad I've struck a chord, however. 

 

If you think it somethng to be glad over that a person had a good opinion of you, felt you were mistaken and would like to correct a mistake, I am actually sad.

I am however willing to believe you may have misunderstood my intentions and regret your former harsh response and am willing to start again.

 I would like to see those posts. If you cannot and just wish to be mean in the face of my going out of my way to be kind and respectful to you, then I ask that you please ban my account, and I will not bother you again.

 

 


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Hello Brian, I am here no a

Hello Brian, I am here no a limited topic, and am glad to engage you on it. Thank you for responding

 

Quote:
For the record you harbor blatantly untrue claims about the Rational Response Squad and people involved with no repercussion.

We practice very little censorship. Our members may post what they wish, and they can be right or wrong. You are also free to challenge them. I only posted here because I knew Todangst and had a good opinion of him. I am asking no repercussion and if he was just a regularl member I would have chalked it up to that's how debate goes.

 

Quote:

None of us have taken the time to come to your site because you have a reputation for banning atheists too quickly.

Examples please? We actually have a reputation for banning theists way more quickly. It is easy to post generalities, but I would like examples.

 

And please note, I didn't deny we ban people. Todangst proffered Trout's alleged trollish crimes as something we would have banned within days of joining. That is not true. That is the only thing I addressed.

 

Quote:

I'm not saying the reputation is true, I haven't experienced for myself, I'm saying you have a reputation. I wouldn't know for myself as I don't spend time on your site, because of this reputation.

 

Brian, I am sure a great deal of what you have heard about us is true. If you want to discuss some of that with me in private, I welcome the conversation. I am dealing with one specific charge here, and it is not true. I am sure you understand that a lot of things can be said that are not true. Have you not had that happen to yourself?

 

BTW, thank you for your tone.

 

I missed this part:

 

Quote:
On your board you do in fact have control over other posters.  And if you care about untrue claims on message boards I suggest you start at home.

You see this is missing my very narrow point.  If I were to edit everything I thought was untrue, no atheist would post.  People are allowed to post things others think are untrue, and I bet that happens here.  I am sure Trout doesn't think what you guys said is true - that is why they called debate forums.  I don't monitor each conversation in that way - that is our policy and because of that, all posters, good and troll, get to post.

I knew Todangst, and felt he would want to know what he said was not true.  I am not complaining that you allowed something untrue to be posted.  I am not suggesting your forum should not allow that.  I went to Todangst, man to man, so to speak, and asked him to discuss it.  I am not railing against this forum or what you allow.  I believed Todangst would want to be accurate.


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Dee Dee Warren

Dee Dee Warren wrote:

Todangst, I am saddened by your response to me.

I'm 'saddened' by this silly ruse.... 

 

Quote:
I welcomed you with open arms to TheologyWeb

I've been 'welcomed' there before.

Let's just say the experience was both unpleasant and unproductive.

 

Quote:
No, it's true. All the old Infidelguy posters are aware of the intolerance practed on your site, several of us were banned within one day of posting.

 

Quote:
 

Can you please give me examples?

Done. See above.

 And please note that the thread in question was placed in the 'enter the darkness' section of the Infidelguy site due to all the rampant trolling from TWEB members.

Quote:

Well gee Todangst, that was uncalled for. Thanks for hurting my feelings. I came here on good faith  

Oh please... you came rushing over at the beck and call of a fellow TWEBer....

 

Quote:

I see no need to waste anymore time with you on the matter.

 

Quote:

Then why did you start this thread?

I didn't start the thread. Sapient did.  

 

Quote:
Glad I've struck a chord, however.

 

Quote:
 

I am however willing to believe you may have misunderstood my intentions and regret your former harsh response and am willing to start again.

 

Oh please...   

 

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Sapient
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Here's the starting post of

- Brian Sapient


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Dee Dee Warren
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Quote: I'm 'saddened' by

Quote:
I'm 'saddened' by this silly ruse....

 What ruse Todangst? You are completely baffling.

 

Quote:

I've been 'welcomed' there before.

Let's just say the experience was both unpleasant and unproductive.

 

Well that's surprising.  Frankly I think you are being spiteful without any cause that I have given you here.  Perhaps you wish to post example threads of the unpleasant experience?   

Quote:

Done. See above.

I see no links?  Please give one.

 

Quote:

 And please note that the thread in question was placed in the 'enter the darkness' section of the Infidelguy site due to all the rampant trolling from TWEB members.

 

You didn't post a link.  However, if I guess from your statement what you are referring to that is not your original claim, your original claim is that there are numerous examples of atheists from II getting banned from TWeb within days.  I would like see them.  I would like to see if they are of the character that would warrant your claim which was in a very narrow context. 

Quote:
Oh please... you came rushing over at the beck and call of a fellow TWEBer....

Can you prove that?  Trout wrote me that he got banned, I suspect that if anything he would think I would have come here to complain about his banishment.  I have not.  Ban away - it is your forum, and you may run it as you see fit.  I have taken your accusations against Trout as true for the sake of argument.  I asked about an objective statement you made about the forum - Trout personally isn't an issue.  If you didn't make a statement about the forum, I would have shrugged and said, "wow that's too bad Trout, serves you right for being a forum tart, now get to posting here" 

Quote:
I didn't start the thread. Sapient did. 

 

My misunderstanding then, the thread split notice had your name on it. 

 

 


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Sapient wrote: For the

Sapient wrote:

For the record you harbor blatantly untrue claims about the Rational Response Squad and people involved with no repercussion. None of us have taken the time to come to your site because you have a reputation for banning atheists too quickly. 

Precisely. 

 

And our friend doesn't realize that I've been to his board..... I'm calling upon the experiences of other atheists who have posted on that board, and have been banned within a very short time span....

 

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Quote: Here's the starting

 

Brian, can you please tell me what that is proffered in proof of? 


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Quote: And our friend

Quote:
And our friend ....

Who is "our friend"?  You have made it quite clear that you don't consider me your friend.  Have you reconsidered that?

 

Quote:
doesn't realize that I've been to his board.....

Which board is "his board"?  I am completely lost as to what you are referring.

 

Quote:
I'm calling upon the experiences of other atheists who have posted on that board, and have been banned within a very short time span....

I would like to know examples Todangst, that I think is fair.  I have no idea who you are talking about.

 

And once again, my context here is your statement that posters who behaved like Trout did here (the accusation - which no one seems to want to confirm with me - is that he was trolling in the form of asking questions or repeating points that have been repeatedly answered) - you claim that posters doing the same or similar things at TWeb have been banned within days.  I say that is untrue.  Do you have evidence, not assertions or anecdotes, to the contrary?  I would like to see them. 

 


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Dee Dee Warren

Dee Dee Warren wrote:

Quote:
I'm 'saddened' by this silly ruse....

What ruse Todangst? You are completely baffling.

Your pretense of pleasantries.. I've been to TWEB before.  It was not a pleasant experience. I was attacked personally, from the time of my first post, and attacked over and over from that point on.

It was a very unpleasant, unproductive experience.

 

Quote:

I've been 'welcomed' there before.

Let's just say the experience was both unpleasant and unproductive.

 

Quote:

Well that's surprising.

No,  it is not. Some of the most boorish posters I've ever met on infidelguy came from TWEB.

 

Quote:
 

Frankly I think you are being spiteful without any cause 

Of course, because the alternative is that what I am saying is true.

So it's not a shock that you'd pick that response.

The problem here is that I am citing my own personal experiences of your site here.

 

Quote:
And please note that the thread in question was placed in the 'enter the darkness' section of the Infidelguy site due to all the rampant trolling from TWEB members.

 

Quote:
 

You didn't post a link.

I did. 

Quote:
 

However, if I guess from your statement what you are referring to that is not your original claim, your original claim is that there are numerous examples of atheists from II getting banned from TWeb within days. I would like see them. 

Again, you'll have to do a cache search on the site. You'll have to talk to some of the various members of infidelguy for more on that, such as KnightofBawaa, who also verify the points made here

I was a long time member there, and recall many complaints about your site.  

 

Quote:
Oh please... you came rushing over at the beck and call of a fellow TWEBer....

 

Quote:
 

Can you prove that?

How else are you here, minutes after the ban?

 

 

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Dee Dee Warren
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Quote: Your pretense of

Quote:

Your pretense of pleasantries.. I've been to TWEB before.

And that means what?  That I cannot be genuinely pleasant to you, person to person?

Quote:
It was not a pleasant experience. I was attacked personally, from the time of my first post, and attacked over and over from that point on.

Do you not think theists are attacked here?  From the very sloagan onward?  But that is not the point.  I didn't claim that theologyweb was all sweetness and light.  It isn't.  We are very lightly moderated and many people play very rough.  That has nothing to do with what I said to you or my complain here.  Must you not deal with the point at hand? 

 

Quote:
It was a very unpleasant, unproductive experience.

Let me take that as Gospel truth for the sake of argument.  So?  What does that have to with the falsehood in your statement? 

Quote:
No,  it is not. Some of the most boorish posters I've ever met on infidelguy came from TWEB.

 Let me take that as Gospel truth for the sake of argument.  So?  What does that have to with the falsehood in your statement? (BTW you are referring primarily to LakeGeorgeMan who is an atheist poster)

Quote:

Of course, because the alternative is that what I am saying is true.

So it's not a shock that you'd pick that response.

The problem here is that I am citing my own personal experiences of your site here.

Once again, you are diverting.  The only personal experience that is relevant to my post is that of trollish atheist posters getting banned within days of their joining.  Do you have any examples or proof of that?  I never claimed that TheologyWeb was a rose garden of etiquette.  It isn't.  I claimed that we don't ban trollish posters within days as a practice.  Care to deal with that? 

Quote:
I did.

It isn't showing on my screen.  Is it the same one Brian posted?  If so, is it posted in proof of your prior claim that some thread on II is filled with examples of trollish atheists getting banned within days? 

Quote:

Again, you'll have to do a cache search on the site. You'll have to talk to some of the various members of infidelguy for more on that, such as KnightofBawaa, who also verify the points made here

I was a long time member there, and recall many complaints about your site.

 If I came here claiming that no one ever complained about our site, that would be relevant.  But right now the issue is your false clam, so do you have examples of trollish atheists getting banned within days? 

Quote:
How else are you here, minutes after the ban?

 

Let's review your claim and my response.  You claimed I came at the "beck and call" of Trout because he was banned.  I told you that he told me he was banned, and I was curious to see why.  I came, I saw, and I shrugged - it is your forum, you can ban as you wish.  Thus, I am not here at the beck and call of Trout.  I am not defending Trout.  I would have read the ban and left without a backwards glance but for the falsehood you said about TheologyWeb. 

 

 


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BTW, I realized one error I

BTW, I realized one error I made.  First todangst, I had you confused with another InfidelGuy posted that I interacted with, so I have no prior background with you apparently - that being said, I would think the best in any event, and would have been pleasant.  This is your forum, and you are in authority here.

I did get curious about what an awful experience you claim to have had and found your one and only post.  I really don't think you want me to post that thread, it doesn't support your post.  However, I readily state that you could easily find some threads in which things on any side of the equation got very rough and some downright nasty.  I never claimed such things didn't happen - guilty as charged.  We let our members have a very loose reign.  But that same loose reign means that we don't ban trollish posters within days of their joining as a policy. 

 


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You know what, I could go

You know what, I could go back and forth with you on this, but.... It's quite possible that I am in error about your site, and I apologize. I may well be confusing your site, for another site. 

I also apologize for assuming that you had some negative intent. However, I think you might understand why I was suspicious.

 I'm glad you are here to set the record straight, and I hope you stay around to post. 

 

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I would like to mention

I would like to mention that Trout as been harassing IIDB members a couple of weeks ago and the mods warned him.

 http://iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=191235&highlight=tweb

He received a yellow card:

http://iidb.org/vbb/member.php?u=33168

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I would like to mention

...


Dee Dee Warren
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Thank you todangst, I am

Thank you todangst, I am more appreciative than you can know.  I am glad I joined.  I hope you have a wonderful night and I am glad we were able to discuss.


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Pikachu wrote: I would

Pikachu wrote:

I would like to mention that Trout as been harassing IIDB members a couple of weeks ago and the mods warned him.

http://iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=191235&highlight=tweb

He received a yellow card:

http://iidb.org/vbb/member.php?u=33168

He's trolled other sites as well, but that's no longer the issue. The issue here is my error in confusing TWEB, with, what I'm guessing is my actual recollections of Gene Cook's site.

While there were complaints about TWEB on infidelguy, and while the TWEBers on infidel were a pack of trolls, my claim that the site itself has a quick trigger on atheists is based on an erroneous transpotion of memories of another site onto TWEB.

Dee Dee is correct, I only posted on TWEB once, and I stayed only for a few moments.... my actual interactions with the TWEBers was on infidelguy, not on TWEB.

This just goes to serve that claims have to be backed up with evidence... memory is fallible.

 

 

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Dee Dee Warren wrote: Thank

Dee Dee Warren wrote:
Thank you todangst, I am more appreciative than you can know. I am glad I joined. I hope you have a wonderful night and I am glad we were able to discuss.

 

You're very welcome. You are a good arguer. 

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      Hello, Dee Dee,

      Hello, Dee Dee, welcome here! I am now @ the new Theology Web. I had a lot of fun @ the old one. I am also@ christianity.com and other forums with the same arguments .I hope to see challenges to mine and additions as I want to improve my arguments . See my blog here on the definitive refutation of the free will argument.

morgan L lamberth Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. Logic is the bane of theists.
" God is in a worse position than the scarecow who had a body to which a mind could enter whilst He has neither. He is that married bachelor. No wonder He is ineffable!" Ignostic Morgan"
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to Dee Dee Warren

POWELL:

Hi, Dee Dee.

When I was having problems at the Infidelguy's forum with Todangst then LGM and Trout came over to see what was going on.  It's my understanding that after I stopped arguing with Todangst then LGM stuck it out for a while and got under Todangst's skin. 

If you get frustrated arguing with Todangst then realize your experience isn't unique.

John Powell