How does an athiest explain something such as this:

JesusLovesYou
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How does an athiest explain something such as this:

TESTIMONY #1
A young boy was in a bedroom with his sister and her friend. The girls found their father's gun and started playing with it. The gun went off and went right through the young boys head. The boys grandmother called the pastor. Rev. David Shatwell (although the man doesn't matter). Bro. Shatwell prayed about this, went to the hospital and saw this boy. The doctors were saying that certain parts of the brain that were used for certain motor functions were damaged and the boy would not be able to do certain things anymore. Bro. Shatwell went in that hospital room and did just what he was moved through prayer to do. He pointed his finger at the boy and exclaimed. "I COMMAND YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST TO LIVE, LIVE I SAY LIVE, LIVE AND DO NOT DIE! IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST". The mother is on the other side of the bed holding her son's hand. She starts screaming saying "HE SQUEEZED MY HAND!". the boy had been unconscious. Before this point the doctors were not going to operate, but they decided to, still claiming that the boy would have disabilities. That young boy very shortly afterwards was completely recovered, 100% healthy no disabilities.

TESTIMONY #2
A man felt moved though prayer and fasting that he was to take a bus all the way to California, he had been living in Mississippi. He went to the bus station and asked for a ticket. The amount of money the lady told him, he did not have, and the bus was going to leave soon. So he sat down and he prayed. 5 minutes before the bus left, a stranger walked into the station and called on his name (stanger meaning these men have never met before), handed him an envelope with his name on it, and it just happened to have the exact amount of money that he needed in it. So he gets on the bus, and a good while later they cross the state line to california. They are in the middle of the desert, and the man feels he needs to get off the bus right there in the middle of nowhere. So he does, and he is standing in the middle of nowhere on the highway. Shortly afterwards a vehicle drives up, a man opens the passenger side door, and asks "are you the man im lookin for?" and the driver explains how he had been praying about a preacher, and God told him to start driving down the highway and he will find the man to preach on sunday.

TESTIMONY #3
A man, through prayer and fasting felt that he was supposed to go stand out on I-10 and start preaching. He did so. He stood on the side of the road and preached into the darkess. 2 years later a man comes into his church. This man testifies that 2 years ago he was a homeless bum living on the highway, then one night he heard a man preach from the Bible on the highway and it changed his life forever.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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Ophios wrote: Atheism

Ophios wrote:

Atheism isn't a religion, theism isn't a religion either.

 Buddhism is a religion, Christianity is a religion.

 

got it memerised? 

Buddhism is not a religion, Buddhism is a philosophy.  Relgion states absolute truth in their perspective, Buddhism states that absolute truth does not exist.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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MattShizzle wrote: Atheism

MattShizzle wrote:
Atheism isn't a religion, it's the absence of religion. If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color, perfect health is a disease and non-participation in sports is a sport.
Atheism is the absence of religion? really? oh my! the facts must be wrong then, if MattShizzle says so, seeing that he is an all-knowledgeable atheist!

Religion:the body of persons adhering to a particular set of BELIEFS and practices.

something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience.

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.

 

Atheism:

The DOCTRINE or BELIEF that there is no God.

You state that atheism is not a relgion, but by definition atheism is a religion who's belief states that there is no deity.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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Not a very good definition.

Not a very good definition. That would include political opinions, whether such and such is a good TV show (a belief, and whether you watch it or not, etc.) In order to be a religion it would have to include some sort of supernatural belief.

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Why atheism is not a

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I like how you picked out

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Relgion states absolute truth in their perspective

Atheists do not.
______________________________________
I like how you picked out the only definitions that supported you (and not even very well I might add).

1.

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Funny how you cut this definition short in order to hide the obvious contradiction to your claim. Also, even as you posted, it says "cause, nature AND PURPOSE." Only religion claims any sort of purpose.

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.

the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

"set of beliefs and practices"
As far as I know there is no church of atheists practicing any kind of ritual. If there was a group of people who thought that the current president of the United States was George Washington, you wouldn't call them a religion, even though they truely believed it. Now, if they started praying to George Washington... then they might be a religion.

4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.

something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

We do not follow any belief devotedly. We question everything.
When you find a book of Atheist ethics and proper conduct... please share.

7.religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.

Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

 

Noor's post is a better explanation.

Edit: I'm pretty sure this clears up the atheist definition as well, as you based it's interpretation on the definition of religion.

 

Flying Spaghetti Monster -- Great Almighty God? Or GREATEST Almighty God?


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JesusLovesYou: I'm still

JesusLovesYou: I'm still waiting.

 

Susan wrote:

Susan wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
you realize that miracles of God never make the news because stupid people that build those Charismatic mega churches always are in the spotlight. PLUS i know at least the denomination i belong to UPC DOES NOT EVEN AGREE WITH TELEVISION, SO NOTHING THAT OCCURS WITHIN THE BODY WOULD APPEAR IN THE NEWS.
Are you saying that televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon if given the chance with anything that would further their cause? I truly doubt that.
Symok wrote:
They disapprove of television, but have no problem with computers and the internet. Is anyone else puzzled by this?
I have to agree with Symok on this. If his/her religion does not agree with the television news, I cannot imagine the religion would approve of the internet and web forums such as this. Please note that JesusLovesYou has not addressed this issue. Please note that JesusLovesYou does not address the issue of all the tragic events that his/her god did not correct. I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

TESTIMONY #1

TESTIMONY #2

TESTIMONY #3


Susan wrote:
What about the other 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times coincidences do not occur?

I've waited and waited for a reply to these questions.

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Quote: Relgion states

Quote:
Relgion states absolute truth in their perspective

 

Then atheism isn't necesaraly a religion.

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I'm not going to PM my agreement just because one tucan has pms.


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Listen, dude, you have a

Listen, dude, you have a talent for misrepresenting others, which is exactly what you're doing to me. I'm going to call you out on it.

Advamced degrees? PhDs? do you want a cookie? I bow down to you because you have a piece of paper saying that you have studied something.

Did I ask for a cookie? Did I ask you to bow down? If you recall, you were the one who accused people on this board of being know-it-alls. My response, and it's still a perfectly reasonable one, is that most of the people on this board are quite smart, and that they don't actually claim to know it all. Here's the quote, so you don't forget: Pointing a finger at us and saying, "You think you're so smart!" get s a result of "Yeah, so what's your point. We do think we're smart."

Can you produce a quote by someone claiming to know everything? No... then it still looks like the part of my post you didn't respond to applies:you're using a passive agressive attack of creating this absolute (that we know everything) and then hoping we'll back off and cut you some slack since any dunder-head can attest to the fact that we don't know everything. It's also very common for people with irrational beliefs to attack people who are rational, since it's the only course left once you've been proven wrong.

Feel free to dispute any of this factually. 1) People with PhD's are statistically smarter on average than people without them. 2) People with PhD's tend to have read more books than the average person. 3) People with ANY advanced degree tend to have higher IQ's than people without, as the average IQ these days is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100.

Now, did I say that anyone with a degree is smarter than anyone without? No. Have I commented AT ALL on whether or not you had any kind of degree? No. So, pointing out that there are a lot of people here who have "pieces of paper" is pretty damn valid, and isn't an attack on you.

here, friend, you are basically committing the same thing you accused ME of.

No. I said that I'd bet Melchisidec knows more about his name than you. I stand by it. Think about this for a second. Why did I say that? Did I mention that he's already discussed it in depth on the boards, more than once? Yes! I did. Did I infer that maybe you don't do much research to back up your statements... Yes. You caught me. You know why? Because I've gone back through your posts and seen that every single bit of "evidence" you believe in is stories with no independent verification.

That is different than what you did, which was to attack when you were backed into the corner and had nothing else constructive to say.

By the way, the perfect way to prove me wrong on this is to come back with some FACTS (that means something verified by science) documenting something done by god. If you can't, then stop getting mad at me for correctly diagnosing the error in your thought process. It's not my fault.

By the way, everyone here has google and is pretty close to a library. Give us some sources! Let's see your library list. Put up or shut up, man.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Sounds like you're getting

Sounds like you're getting a little testy, Jesuslovesyou. Let me tell you , though: acting in a condenscending matter and talking down to the people in this thread is not helping your case. You're really just making yourself look childish.

Now, I've already tried explaining this too you a few times, but I'm going to try it again. I'm hoping you'll be able to suck it back and just listen to me this time. I doubt it thought but hey, I've been proven wrong before

You said that it is the 'opinion' of the people here that your testimonies are false. That certainly is one way of looking at it, but try carrying through with that thought. What is that opinion based on? Lack of evidence. How much evidence to support these claims have you provided? None. Are you upset that we don't believe you? Try blaming yourself.

The same goes with the bible. The bible makes some fairly grand claims.  There no evidence to back up things like god's creation of existance in seven days 6000 years ago and jesus' birth, death and resurection. An opinion based on facts and evidence is more sound than an opinion based on 'faith' without proof. This should not be a hard concept to understand.

Oh, and for the record, no one here said that you were a liar. We were actually trying to tell you that you were gullible.

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


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And, Jesuslovesyou, Susan's

And, Jesuslovesyou, Susan's still waiting for answers to her questions.  Been waiting for many days.  Why have you ignored her?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Susan

Susan wrote:

JesusLovesYou: I'm still waiting.

 

Susan wrote:

Susan wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
you realize that miracles of God never make the news because stupid people that build those Charismatic mega churches always are in the spotlight. PLUS i know at least the denomination i belong to UPC DOES NOT EVEN AGREE WITH TELEVISION, SO NOTHING THAT OCCURS WITHIN THE BODY WOULD APPEAR IN THE NEWS.
Are you saying that televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon if given the chance with anything that would further their cause? I truly doubt that.
Symok wrote:
They disapprove of television, but have no problem with computers and the internet. Is anyone else puzzled by this?
I have to agree with Symok on this. If his/her religion does not agree with the television news, I cannot imagine the religion would approve of the internet and web forums such as this. Please note that JesusLovesYou has not addressed this issue. Please note that JesusLovesYou does not address the issue of all the tragic events that his/her god did not correct. I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

TESTIMONY #1

TESTIMONY #2

TESTIMONY #3


Susan wrote:
What about the other 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times coincidences do not occur?

I've waited and waited for a reply to these questions.

Ok Ma'am, lets get started. To answer your first question.  Im sure televangelists would jump on the bandwagon if they had a chance, BUT that shows that you don't know what the Apostolic faith is all about, and how it differs from the Charismatic/Holiness movement.  The Charismatic preachers tend to make a show of the gift of the Holy Ghost(which in that case i do not believe their Holy Ghost is valid), with that, they basically tell people that there is no need for change because you can have these gifts, and THEY TEACH PEOPLE how to speak in tongues, THEY TEACH PEOPLE how to heal, etc. etc.  They basically mold christianity into something that will attract a crowd that will stay.

 An Apostolic does not learn any spiritual gift from any other man.  How did the Apostolic come to God?  Most cases they are brought to church for the first time, and feel the Holy Ghost, then they are moved in their hearts to keep coming, either that day or sometime later they receive the Holy Ghost.  Other times, people so desperately want to know God, they get on their knees and cry out to Him saying, "I don't know who you are, please show me, I will follow you whether you go by Brahmah, Jesus, Allah, etc. etc." and God reveals to them His absolute ONENESS. 

The televangelists would not hop on the bandwagon because most girls like to cut, dye, jewel up their hair.  Most girls don't want to wear a skirt every day, and most girls like to "show skin".  Most guys don't like to dress formally a whole lot, most guys have a strong libido, etc etc.  The televangelist's goal is to attract people, so they have the "come as you are, you don't need to change" mentality.  They don't go by the scriptures in the Bible that say no jewelry, don't cut hair, etc etc

The internet? I can choose where i want to go, and what i want to look at? TV and movies? I can do that too, but the good majority of hollywood is pure poison. 

What tragic events that events that God did not correct? Do you know how many people's faith was re-newed or came to during these tragic events? Its about coming to God, not stopping a storm.

it is your assumption that these are just mere coincidences. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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I have to quote Boris

I have to quote Boris Badenov again. And no that doesn't mean I'm evil.

 

Hooo Boy!


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JesusLovesYou wrote: you

JesusLovesYou wrote:
you realize that miracles of God never make the news because stupid people that build those Charismatic mega churches always are in the spotlight.

Susan wrote:
Are you saying that televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon if given the chance with anything that would further their cause?

I truly doubt that.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

The televangelists would not hop on the bandwagon because most girls like to cut, dye, jewel up their hair. Most girls don't want to wear a skirt every day, and most girls like to "show skin". Most guys don't like to dress formally a whole lot, most guys have a strong libido, etc etc. The televangelist's goal is to attract people, so they have the "come as you are, you don't need to change" mentality. They don't go by the scriptures in the Bible that say no jewelry, don't cut hair, etc etc

JesusLovesYou wrote:
They basically mold christianity into something that will attract a crowd that will stay.

 

If there were verifiable miracles, do I understand you to say that televangelists would NOT jump on that bandwagon and scream it from the highest hilltop because girls don't like to wear skirts and (it's your opinion) that most girls like to "show skin"? Televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon because guys like to have sex?

I fail to see the correlation there and I cannot imagine it to be true. I suspect that if there were verifiable miracles, it wouldn't matter to a televangelist if the flock were naked and having sex during services. They would be screaming it as loudly as possible.

Seems to me christianity wouldn't have to be molded at that point, verifiable miracles would have folks flocking (pun intended) to join.

I just reread your first sentence. You're saying that verifiable miracles don't make the news simply because televangelists are in the spotlight? Maybe it's because there really aren't miracles.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
PLUS i know at least the denomination i belong to UPC DOES NOT EVEN AGREE WITH TELEVISION, SO NOTHING THAT OCCURS WITHIN THE BODY WOULD APPEAR IN THE NEWS.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
The internet? I can choose where i want to go, and what i want to look at? TV and movies? I can do that too, but the good majority of hollywood is pure poison.

 

First you say UPC doesn't agree with television and then you say you do it anyway? That seems a bit hypocritical. Do you really think that parts of the internet aren't? You must not get much spam or pop-up advertisements. Maybe you should try The History Channel or The Discovery Channel.

Susan wrote:
Please note that JesusLovesYou does not address the issue of all the tragic events that his/her god did not correct.

I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit.


JesusLovesYou wrote:
What tragic events that events that God did not correct? Do you know how many people's faith was re-newed or came to during these tragic events? Its about coming to God, not stopping a storm.

 

I repeat: I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit. I feel pretty sure that there were prayers from the faithful that their loved ones would be found alive (or even found) in the World Trade Center after 9-11. I don't think I have to list all the terrible tragedies such as earthquakes, tsunamis, etc etc etc etc.

Do I understand you correctly when you say, "It's about coming to god, not stopping a storm" that you mean your god is going to allow (or cause) all these horrible things to happen so people will praise him?

Seems to me if you want someone to like you, you should do nice things. Cancer diagnosis? Zap! You're well. Lose your job? A better one is offered without missing a paycheck. Hooked on drugs? Kick the habit with no detox time. Car breaks down and zero in the bank account? Car heals itself. How many times do you know of that these things didn't happen?

Susan wrote:
What about the other 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times coincidences do not occur?

JesusLovesYou wrote:
it is your assumption that these are just mere coincidences.

 

It is your assumption that 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 really crummy things happen and 1 really good thing happens, that it's not coincidence?

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xCrimex wrote: I have to

xCrimex wrote:

I have to agree.  From what I've read on the thread, it's a waste of time to even talk to this joker.  Only he has the true Christian religion.  Only he knows the TRUTH about these miracles.  Only he can save us poor, delusional atheists.

I'm officially ignoring this thread.  There are better ways to torture myself. Smiling

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Susan wrote: JesusLovesYou

Susan wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
you realize that miracles of God never make the news because stupid people that build those Charismatic mega churches always are in the spotlight.

Susan wrote:
Are you saying that televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon if given the chance with anything that would further their cause?

I truly doubt that.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

The televangelists would not hop on the bandwagon because most girls like to cut, dye, jewel up their hair. Most girls don't want to wear a skirt every day, and most girls like to "show skin". Most guys don't like to dress formally a whole lot, most guys have a strong libido, etc etc. The televangelist's goal is to attract people, so they have the "come as you are, you don't need to change" mentality. They don't go by the scriptures in the Bible that say no jewelry, don't cut hair, etc etc

JesusLovesYou wrote:
They basically mold christianity into something that will attract a crowd that will stay.

 

If there were verifiable miracles, do I understand you to say that televangelists would NOT jump on that bandwagon and scream it from the highest hilltop because girls don't like to wear skirts and (it's your opinion) that most girls like to "show skin"? Televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon because guys like to have sex?

I fail to see the correlation there and I cannot imagine it to be true. I suspect that if there were verifiable miracles, it wouldn't matter to a televangelist if the flock were naked and having sex during services. They would be screaming it as loudly as possible.

Seems to me christianity wouldn't have to be molded at that point, verifiable miracles would have folks flocking (pun intended) to join.

I just reread your first sentence. You're saying that verifiable miracles don't make the news simply because televangelists are in the spotlight? Maybe it's because there really aren't miracles.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
PLUS i know at least the denomination i belong to UPC DOES NOT EVEN AGREE WITH TELEVISION, SO NOTHING THAT OCCURS WITHIN THE BODY WOULD APPEAR IN THE NEWS.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
The internet? I can choose where i want to go, and what i want to look at? TV and movies? I can do that too, but the good majority of hollywood is pure poison.

 

First you say UPC doesn't agree with television and then you say you do it anyway? That seems a bit hypocritical. Do you really think that parts of the internet aren't? You must not get much spam or pop-up advertisements. Maybe you should try The History Channel or The Discovery Channel.

 

Susan wrote:
Please note that JesusLovesYou does not address the issue of all the tragic events that his/her god did not correct.

I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit.


JesusLovesYou wrote:
What tragic events that events that God did not correct? Do you know how many people's faith was re-newed or came to during these tragic events? Its about coming to God, not stopping a storm.

 

I repeat: I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit. I feel pretty sure that there were prayers from the faithful that their loved ones would be found alive (or even found) in the World Trade Center after 9-11. I don't think I have to list all the terrible tragedies such as earthquakes, tsunamis, etc etc etc etc.

Do I understand you correctly when you say, "It's about coming to god, not stopping a storm" that you mean your god is going to allow (or cause) all these horrible things to happen so people will praise him?

Seems to me if you want someone to like you, you should do nice things. Cancer diagnosis? Zap! You're well. Lose your job? A better one is offered without missing a paycheck. Hooked on drugs? Kick the habit with no detox time. Car breaks down and zero in the bank account? Car heals itself. How many times do you know of that these things didn't happen?

Susan wrote:
What about the other 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times coincidences do not occur?

JesusLovesYou wrote:
it is your assumption that these are just mere coincidences.

 

It is your assumption that 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 really crummy things happen and 1 really good thing happens, that it's not coincidence?

you totally misunderstand everything I said.  What televangelists do, is claim the miracles, but don't follow up with the rest of it, meaning Biblical holiness.  Televangelists feel that "come as you are" will attract more people than saying the Bible says (which it does) that woman shouldn't cut their hair, or people should wait till marriage to intercourse, just for a couple examples. 

When did i say i watch TV? I said the majority of TV programming is poison, even "kid shows" now-a-days has sexual inuendo in them.  I got rid of television in my life around 1 year ago.  I believe its a little easier on the internet to control what you do and see.  Pop-ups? i have a pop-up blocker that ACTUALLY WORKS. 

Im sure tons of people prayed during tragic accidents.  One thing, before I continue, God does not have a "master control center" for natural disasters, the earth takes its course, what happens happens.  Unlike pagan mythology, Jesus does not sit in heaven with a lightning bolt in His hand ready to strike down those who displease Him.  Unanswered prayers?  It comes down to this, who were you praying to, did you truely believe in answered prayer, are you familiar with the process of time? 

Ill tell you this, prayer is always answered, no matter what the outcome is.  A person could pray for somebody that is on their deathbed, but if it is truely their time to go, God will answer the prayer in a way to let you know this, and give you comfort in the situation?  Is this sometimes hard to handle? yes, because you want to perceive the prayer to be answered in a certain way, and it would upset you for God to tell you otherwise.

One thing that people really have a hard time understanding is the process of time.  God always answers prayer, but in our perception of time, it may not happen isntantaneously (this is what i like to call microwave mentality).  Let me give you this example.  The second to last week of september I left hawaii to go home for two weeks for my mom's wedding and my church's general conference.  During this two weeks, what seemed to be the most loving couple i have ever known filed for divorce and she put a restraining order on him.  I got back and was amazed, so i prayed for them to work things out.  Just this morning I saw them drive up together with their kids in the back seat and divorce proceedings stopped. They got back together.  See? God answered a prayer, but it didn't happen in an instant, it took roughly 3 months in the process of time, in human perception.

See, from the way you approached the subject i believe you have the microwave mentality of God.  You are only assuming that miracles happen here and there.  Do you know how many revivals happen DAILY in asia and the middle east? 

When i was at conference in ohio this past september, 1041 people received the gift of the Holy Ghost.  That was the first time that such a big number of people received God in the US.  This type of thing happens on a regular basis on the other side of the world.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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I am so done with this

I am so done with this thread.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Krehlic
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In the wise words of

In the wise words of Stephen Colbert...
"It's like boxing a glacier."

Flying Spaghetti Monster -- Great Almighty God? Or GREATEST Almighty God?


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Hambydammit wrote: I am so

Hambydammit wrote:

I am so done with this thread.

 

Me, too.  The reply wasn't worth the wait.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Let me give you this example. The second to last week of september I left hawaii to go home for two weeks for my mom's wedding and my church's general conference. During this two weeks, what seemed to be the most loving couple i have ever known filed for divorce and she put a restraining order on him. I got back and was amazed, so i prayed for them to work things out. Just this morning I saw them drive up together with their kids in the back seat and divorce proceedings stopped. They got back together. See? God answered a prayer, but it didn't happen in an instant, it took roughly 3 months in the process of time, in human perception.

 

Hahahaha. ROTF

Nice to see you(oh I'm sorry, you and gawd) taking credit for that couple working out their relationship problems. 'Cause if you hadn't prayed, I really bet that the divorce would TOTALLY have gone through. Why can't you see that your examples are inherently flawed? Praying to a jug of milk would have been as effective.


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Quote:

Quote:
Let me give you this example. The second to last week of september I left hawaii to go home for two weeks for my mom's wedding and my church's general conference. During this two weeks, what seemed to be the most loving couple i have ever known filed for divorce and she put a restraining order on him. I got back and was amazed, so i prayed for them to work things out. Just this morning I saw them drive up together with their kids in the back seat and divorce proceedings stopped. They got back together. See? God answered a prayer, but it didn't happen in an instant, it took roughly 3 months in the process of time, in human perception.

You are completley deluded. You actually believe you caused this? What a joke! I don't buy it. I don't buy any of your bullshit testimonials. You've got nothing. What a huge waste of time.

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


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JesusLovesYou wrote: Susan

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Susan wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
you realize that miracles of God never make the news because stupid people that build those Charismatic mega churches always are in the spotlight.

Susan wrote:
Are you saying that televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon if given the chance with anything that would further their cause?

I truly doubt that.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

The televangelists would not hop on the bandwagon because most girls like to cut, dye, jewel up their hair. Most girls don't want to wear a skirt every day, and most girls like to "show skin". Most guys don't like to dress formally a whole lot, most guys have a strong libido, etc etc. The televangelist's goal is to attract people, so they have the "come as you are, you don't need to change" mentality. They don't go by the scriptures in the Bible that say no jewelry, don't cut hair, etc etc

JesusLovesYou wrote:
They basically mold christianity into something that will attract a crowd that will stay.

If there were verifiable miracles, do I understand you to say that televangelists would NOT jump on that bandwagon and scream it from the highest hilltop because girls don't like to wear skirts and (it's your opinion) that most girls like to "show skin"? Televangelists wouldn't jump on the bandwagon because guys like to have sex?

I fail to see the correlation there and I cannot imagine it to be true. I suspect that if there were verifiable miracles, it wouldn't matter to a televangelist if the flock were naked and having sex during services. They would be screaming it as loudly as possible.

Seems to me christianity wouldn't have to be molded at that point, verifiable miracles would have folks flocking (pun intended) to join.

I just reread your first sentence. You're saying that verifiable miracles don't make the news simply because televangelists are in the spotlight? Maybe it's because there really aren't miracles.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
PLUS i know at least the denomination i belong to UPC DOES NOT EVEN AGREE WITH TELEVISION, SO NOTHING THAT OCCURS WITHIN THE BODY WOULD APPEAR IN THE NEWS.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
The internet? I can choose where i want to go, and what i want to look at? TV and movies? I can do that too, but the good majority of hollywood is pure poison.

First you say UPC doesn't agree with television and then you say you do it anyway? That seems a bit hypocritical. Do you really think that parts of the internet aren't? You must not get much spam or pop-up advertisements. Maybe you should try The History Channel or The Discovery Channel.

 

Susan wrote:
Please note that JesusLovesYou does not address the issue of all the tragic events that his/her god did not correct.

I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit.


JesusLovesYou wrote:
What tragic events that events that God did not correct? Do you know how many people's faith was re-newed or came to during these tragic events? Its about coming to God, not stopping a storm.

I repeat: I have no doubt that there were plenty of prayers from the faithful in New Orleans which didn't help one bit. I feel pretty sure that there were prayers from the faithful that their loved ones would be found alive (or even found) in the World Trade Center after 9-11. I don't think I have to list all the terrible tragedies such as earthquakes, tsunamis, etc etc etc etc.

Do I understand you correctly when you say, "It's about coming to god, not stopping a storm" that you mean your god is going to allow (or cause) all these horrible things to happen so people will praise him?

Seems to me if you want someone to like you, you should do nice things. Cancer diagnosis? Zap! You're well. Lose your job? A better one is offered without missing a paycheck. Hooked on drugs? Kick the habit with no detox time. Car breaks down and zero in the bank account? Car heals itself. How many times do you know of that these things didn't happen?

Susan wrote:
What about the other 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 times coincidences do not occur?

JesusLovesYou wrote:
it is your assumption that these are just mere coincidences.

It is your assumption that 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 really crummy things happen and 1 really good thing happens, that it's not coincidence?

you totally misunderstand everything I said.  What televangelists do, is claim the miracles, but don't follow up with the rest of it, meaning Biblical holiness.  Televangelists feel that "come as you are" will attract more people than saying the Bible says (which it does) that woman shouldn't cut their hair, or people should wait till marriage to intercourse, just for a couple examples. 

When did i say i watch TV? I said the majority of TV programming is poison, even "kid shows" now-a-days has sexual inuendo in them.  I got rid of television in my life around 1 year ago.  I believe its a little easier on the internet to control what you do and see.  Pop-ups? i have a pop-up blocker that ACTUALLY WORKS. 

Im sure tons of people prayed during tragic accidents.  One thing, before I continue, God does not have a "master control center" for natural disasters, the earth takes its course, what happens happens.  Unlike pagan mythology, Jesus does not sit in heaven with a lightning bolt in His hand ready to strike down those who displease Him.  Unanswered prayers?  It comes down to this, who were you praying to, did you truely believe in answered prayer, are you familiar with the process of time? 

Ill tell you this, prayer is always answered, no matter what the outcome is.  A person could pray for somebody that is on their deathbed, but if it is truely their time to go, God will answer the prayer in a way to let you know this, and give you comfort in the situation?  Is this sometimes hard to handle? yes, because you want to perceive the prayer to be answered in a certain way, and it would upset you for God to tell you otherwise.

One thing that people really have a hard time understanding is the process of time.  God always answers prayer, but in our perception of time, it may not happen isntantaneously (this is what i like to call microwave mentality).  Let me give you this example.  The second to last week of september I left hawaii to go home for two weeks for my mom's wedding and my church's general conference.  During this two weeks, what seemed to be the most loving couple i have ever known filed for divorce and she put a restraining order on him.  I got back and was amazed, so i prayed for them to work things out.  Just this morning I saw them drive up together with their kids in the back seat and divorce proceedings stopped. They got back together.  See? God answered a prayer, but it didn't happen in an instant, it took roughly 3 months in the process of time, in human perception.

See, from the way you approached the subject i believe you have the microwave mentality of God.  You are only assuming that miracles happen here and there.  Do you know how many revivals happen DAILY in asia and the middle east? 

When i was at conference in ohio this past september, 1041 people received the gift of the Holy Ghost.  That was the first time that such a big number of people received God in the US.  This type of thing happens on a regular basis on the other side of the world.

 

Your whole argument needs itself to survive. You attribute every instance to your fictional deity. Of course that couple didn't work things out on their own. Of course some super being(and you as well, we can't forget!) whispered into their ears that they should stay together, and they were magnanamous enough to care about your opinions instead of their own. Of course they won't divorce in the future. Of course god made this planet full of diseases and natural disasters, even though he didn't have to. I guess he did it for character building maybe.

I'm going to write a book about people like you. A book titled: How to create your own religion.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: what


JesusLovesYou wrote:
what seemed to be the most loving couple i have ever known filed for divorce and she put a restraining order on him. I got back and was amazed, so i prayed for them to work things out. Just this morning I saw them drive up together with their kids in the back seat and divorce proceedings stopped. They got back together. See? God answered a prayer,

One parting thought:

  • JesusLovesYou prayed.
  • God obeyed and made them get back together.
  • The couple had no free will in the matter.
I am SO done with this thread.

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KSMB
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Not to mention, if that

Not to mention, if that couple hadn't worked things out, JesusLovesYou would claim that was god's will as well. Or that he didn't pray correctly. Or that in fact his prayer will get answered, but in 2000 years from now.

So stupid.


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JesusLovesYou, I don't know


JesusLovesYou,

I don't know if I ever wrote that your testimonies were absolutely not facts. Maybe you can quote me, because I certainly don't remember. The problem with you sir/mam, is that you avoid answering just about every question posed to you. I've asked you countless of questions and you have done nothing but duck and dive most of them. This can lead one to believe that you do not have the answers to them, so you just avoid them. So I will pose my questions to you again to see if you can answer them, I will include them in bold so you can clearly address them all:

 

One question I have is how do you know its the holy spirit? How do you know its not a demon pretending to be the holy spirit?

 

I will also like to ask how do you call upon the 'Godhead'? You previously said this about it :

 

Quote:

But the Bible states that when we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, we have the authority of Christ. Just as my example of what Rev. David Shatwell did, he believed X, that God told him to go to the hospital, so he carried out X when he got there.

 

Whats the authority of christ? What does this authority entail?

Quote:

The Holiness/Charismatic people believe that they can have the spiritual gifts while still living in their "everyday lifestyle" or in other words sin.

 

Quote:

Rev. Wright was revealed the ONENESS of the Godhead, Jesus Christ being the fullness of the Godhead. Peggy Kenn, when she was a little girl, growing up in the Catholic church, she didn't know anything different, she was praying one day, and God revealed to her the ONENESS of the Godhead, and now today she is a Holy Ghost filled Apostolic Christian.

 

Can you explain this "Oneness" of the Godhead? How do you achieve it?

I will leave these as the only questions since, and I sincerely hope I can get answers to these questions instead of the constant dodging of previous questions I've posed. Finally, yes I do know the nature of my name - and I use it purposefully as a sort of question in itself. Maybe we can venture into that after you answer the questions before you. My regards to Dr. ShatWell.

 


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From everything I have

From everything I have read on the first two pages of comments, all you are doing JesusLovesYou, is pulling a bunch of stories out of your ass.....

there is no scientific proof to support ANYTHING you have commented....

 and just out of curiosity, how do you know exactly what god is responsible and not responsible for...have you sat down over coffee and discussed his job duties with him????


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melchisedec

melchisedec wrote:

JesusLovesYou,

I don't know if I ever wrote that your testimonies were absolutely not facts. Maybe you can quote me, because I certainly don't remember. The problem with you sir/mam, is that you avoid answering just about every question posed to you. I've asked you countless of questions and you have done nothing but duck and dive most of them. This can lead one to believe that you do not have the answers to them, so you just avoid them. So I will pose my questions to you again to see if you can answer them, I will include them in bold so you can clearly address them all:

 

One question I have is how do you know its the holy spirit? How do you know its not a demon pretending to be the holy spirit?

 

I will also like to ask how do you call upon the 'Godhead'? You previously said this about it :

 

Quote:

But the Bible states that when we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, we have the authority of Christ. Just as my example of what Rev. David Shatwell did, he believed X, that God told him to go to the hospital, so he carried out X when he got there.

 

Whats the authority of christ? What does this authority entail?

Quote:

The Holiness/Charismatic people believe that they can have the spiritual gifts while still living in their "everyday lifestyle" or in other words sin.

 

Quote:

Rev. Wright was revealed the ONENESS of the Godhead, Jesus Christ being the fullness of the Godhead. Peggy Kenn, when she was a little girl, growing up in the Catholic church, she didn't know anything different, she was praying one day, and God revealed to her the ONENESS of the Godhead, and now today she is a Holy Ghost filled Apostolic Christian.

 

Can you explain this "Oneness" of the Godhead? How do you achieve it?

I will leave these as the only questions since, and I sincerely hope I can get answers to these questions instead of the constant dodging of previous questions I've posed. Finally, yes I do know the nature of my name - and I use it purposefully as a sort of question in itself. Maybe we can venture into that after you answer the questions before you. My regards to Dr. ShatWell.

 

Ok Melch, first off I HAVE A JOB TO DO AND A LIFE TO LIVE, I LIVE IN FREAKIN HAWAII FOR GOODNESS SAKE, IM NOT GONNA SIT INFRONT OF A STINKIN COMPUTER SCREEN ALL DAY.

How do you know its the Holy Ghost and not a demon? First off, Biblically, demons are fallen angels.  The Bible says in  2 Corinthians 11:14, "and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light".  Demons can pose as angels of light, but nowhere does it say that they can pose as GOD.  Nobody, not even an angel, can pose as God, the role is already filled.  How do you know if you have received the Holy Spirit? YES i know people can fake it, but speaking in an unknown tongue is the initial evidence.  How can you tell if a person is faking it?  One of the Spiritual gifts is discernment.  Yes at Pentecost everybody understood eachother in their own tongue, but that was an isolated incident.  If you read what Paul writes, tongues is for personal edification, because in a crowd it would be unitelligable babble.  So my answer here is 1) Demons cannot mimic God and 2) INITIAL evidence of tongues

 How do you call upon the Godhead? we aren't witched brah, there is no "magical incantation", where do you get that mumbo jumbo?

What does this authority entail? WELL, MY GOOD MAN, READ ABOUT IT.  Bible states when we are baptized into Christ, we put on Christ.  The greek word used there literally means putting on (for example, when i put on my naval uniform I am a United States Sailor).  When we put on Christ, we have the ability to truely be like Christ.  What was Christ like? well, thats what the Gospel is for. 

What is the ONENESS of the Godhead?  Its not something that one needs to "achieve".  The reason i talk about it like i do, is because of the massive pagan influence on Christianity, the truth of God was turned into a lie, just like Paul said would happen in his epistle to the Romans.  God is not 3 anything.  God is ONE and will always be ONE.  Now this might be confusing the way I state this.  Jesus is the Son of God.  There is a difference between Son of God and God's son (ex. Hercules was God's son).  The Bible does not teach that Jesus Christ was a second entity.  The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is GOD robed in flesh.  Not like the theopanies of the OT, but truely flesh of man.  Im going to take for example the description of the ancient of days in Daniel 7.  If you ask a Jewish person who the ancient of days is, they would tell you that it is God.  THE SAME EXACT DESCRIPTION is used by John to describe Jesus in Revelation.  Whats all this talk about being seated at the right hand?  In the original languages, "right hand" is not a literal right side, its symbolic of power.  The man Christ Jesus is the authority of God.  The Bible NEVER mentions more than one throne.  Even more evidence of this is in Revelation as well.  Take a look at who opened the seals. Im going to paraphrase here.  John said that no man is capable of opening the book, but the angel said, wait, the LION OF JUDEA, THE ROOT OF DAVID (aka God) has come to open the book, John looked and he saw a LAMB(aka Christ).  Also towards the end of Revelation Jesus refers to Himself as the ROOT and the OFFSPRING of David, not to mention the handful of times He calls Himself Alpha and Omega.  I can go on and on about this.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: They

JesusLovesYou wrote: They basically mold christianity into something that will attract a crowd that will stay.

 

Funny - Not everything you say is baseless.  This thing you said is dead-on correct.  You get the cookie, the cream, and the god damned Lincoln Navigator that was used to retrieve both.

Every step I took in faith betrayed me

-Sarah McLachlan


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People... come on! You

People... come on!
You actually waste time posting on threads like these?

The guy is, at best, lacking half a brain (like the kid who got shot in the head in his story).


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thanks to jesuslovesyou i

thanks to jesuslovesyou i think i'm gonna stop being athiest and start being satanic, then i'd have an equally delusional superpower to use as a scapegoat for tragedy and an excuse for what i can not explain...until then jesuslovesyou i'll be waiting by the flagpole after school learning some discussion enhancing spells.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: YES

JesusLovesYou wrote:

YES i know people can fake it, but speaking in an unknown tongue is the initial evidence.

Ofcourse you know this can be done easily by anyone. You concede this but rely on another mechanism to try to keep this in check.

Quote:

How can you tell if a person is faking it? One of the Spiritual gifts is discernment.

This proposes another problem, because how do we know someone has the 'gift'. Would they be able to determine exactly what the speaker of tongues is saying? Or do they just put a stamp of approval on a particular wind of babbel? Will anyone be able to understand these tongues?

Quote:

Yes at Pentecost everybody understood eachother in their own tongue, but that was an isolated incident. If you read what Paul writes, tongues is for personal edification, because in a crowd it would be unitelligable babble. So my answer here is 1) Demons cannot mimic God and 2) INITIAL evidence of tongues

So your defense is basicly that demons cannot speak in tongues and speaking tongues in itself is evidence of the holy ghost. If a person can fool someone by speaking in tongues why couldn' t a demon do the same?

Quote:

What does this authority entail? WELL, MY GOOD MAN, READ ABOUT IT. Bible states when we are baptized into Christ, we put on Christ. The greek word used there literally means putting on (for example, when i put on my naval uniform I am a United States Sailor). When we put on Christ, we have the ability to truely be like Christ. What was Christ like? well, thats what the Gospel is for.

 

So does this mean you can acheive powers somewhat of that of Christ? 


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TheAmazingAtheist started a

TheAmazingAtheist started a thing he calls the Miracle Challenge and he somehow got a hold of theses... <_< >_> <_<

 


Miracles Whipped 1


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Re: How does an athiest explain something such as this:

Ok, first, let's play along and assume (however far fetched) that these accounts are real.  That said, I would like to respond to #1:

The human brain is a complex thing, and capable of seemingly miraculous things.  So complex, in fact, that doctors still have very little clue on how it actually works.  They some great hypotheses, and a lot of reasearch goes into this every year, but the fact is, no one is really %100 sure.  Theoretically, nuerons aren't supposed to be able to heal once lost, but go search the web for stories resembeling this one, I bet you'll find a few that are verifiable.  To my understanding, this is the most probable of the stories posted here.  Still not likely, but certainly not impossible, doctors don't always know everything.  Especially when it comes to the human brain.

#2:

I really don't see a need to comment on this one.  Chaos and coinsidence do rule the universe, but this one is a little too far fetched to even consider.

 

#3:

There are enough nut jobs on this spinning rock to completely dismiss this one.  Sometimes all a person needs is the right inspiration.  Be it from a book, a song, a poem, or a freak spouting bible verses in the middle of the night.  Again, chaos and coinsidence being the ruler of the universe, this may actually be possible.  I still think all three are bogus, but like I said, just for the sake of argument, let's "pretend". 

The darkness of godlessness lets wisdom shine.


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Voiderest

Voiderest wrote:

TheAmazingAtheist started a thing he calls the Miracle Challenge and he somehow got a hold of theses... <_< >_> <_<


Miracles Whipped 1

again, under the ASSUMPTION that im spewing mere stories

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: again,

JesusLovesYou wrote:
again, under the ASSUMPTION that im spewing mere stories

Ok, for something that has no evidence or sources backing it up what is more likely, someone made it up or god did it? Also if you listen to the other parts he goes into how parts of it could be false or explained without god.


Brian37
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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:
GlamourKat wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
It wasn't Rev. Shatwell that healed the boy, it was God working through him that did it. Jesus said: Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not by the power of man, but only by the power and grace of God do these things happen.
Why did your god make the boy sick in the first place then? If he was just going to heal him? And if the reverend HADN'T decided to help or had never heard of him, would the boy have died? It just strikes me as odd. It doesn't make any sense. "Take up serpents." What about when religious snake handlers die from snake poison? Did they not pray hard enough? What about this man? KIEV (Reuters) - A man shouting that God would keep him safe was mauled to death by a lioness in Kiev zoo after he crept into the animal’s enclosure, a zoo official said on Monday. “The man shouted ‘God will save me, if he exists’, lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions,” the official said. “A lioness went straight for him, knocked him down and severed his carotid artery.” Pretty faithful to jump into a lion's den. He obviously thought he'd be fine. Pretty much wasn't. O_O I think a better question is how does a theist explain this? (My no-true-scotsman sense is tingling...)
What makes you think that God made this boy get shot. Those girls were playing with the gun in the same room that the boy was in. God gave man free will, God did not make us PUPPETS. The grandmother that attends David Shatwell's church was obviously praying for a miracle, so when she asked the man to do a hospital visit (thats a normal thing for preacher to do) Rev. Shatwell felt in the Holy Ghost to do what he did. He did what he was told of God to do. The man that was mauled? He was either a) putting on a show or b) did not truely trust in God to save him.

Give me a break. Are you telling me that all the dead victims of Katrina and all the distroyed property was of people who "didn't really believe god would save them?"

Emigine yourselve interviewing a baby sitter:

You, "Ok, tell about me your qualifications"

Baby sitter, "Well. I've babysat over 200 kids. I shot one guy before he could shoot the kid. Another guy I let shoot the kid over and over then let him leave. Another I let him shoot the kid and only shot him 10 years after the fact"

(END)

Tell me, would you hire this baby sitter to watch your kid? Your answer should be no if you have any morals and I hope you do.

NOW, go look up omnipresent, omnibenevolent and omiscient and look at the story you are telling us here.

God didn't do anything to stop the boy getting shot. Your all loving god did nothing to prevent it. IT HAPPENED WHILE HE WAS WATCHING(according to your claim).

That would be like a doctor causing a car accident just so he can operate on the victims. I think it is sick that the boy would diserve a deity say, "Sorry Johny, you gonna get capped so people learn to kiss my butt". 

Here is reality and I cant help you face it unless you want help.

Bad things happen to good people and good people do bad things. There is no need to incert Superman vs Kriptonite claims to explain the obvious. A boy got shot. Millions of children around the world die every day. You really want to claim a super natural sky daddy to being in charge of that kind of death while allowing it to happen? Why not skip the magic and actually study crime and desease and look for real answers insted of making them up.

 

 

 

 

 

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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
GlamourKat wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
It wasn't Rev. Shatwell that healed the boy, it was God working through him that did it. Jesus said: Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not by the power of man, but only by the power and grace of God do these things happen.
Why did your god make the boy sick in the first place then? If he was just going to heal him? And if the reverend HADN'T decided to help or had never heard of him, would the boy have died? It just strikes me as odd. It doesn't make any sense. "Take up serpents." What about when religious snake handlers die from snake poison? Did they not pray hard enough? What about this man? KIEV (Reuters) - A man shouting that God would keep him safe was mauled to death by a lioness in Kiev zoo after he crept into the animal’s enclosure, a zoo official said on Monday. “The man shouted ‘God will save me, if he exists’, lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions,” the official said. “A lioness went straight for him, knocked him down and severed his carotid artery.” Pretty faithful to jump into a lion's den. He obviously thought he'd be fine. Pretty much wasn't. O_O I think a better question is how does a theist explain this? (My no-true-scotsman sense is tingling...)
What makes you think that God made this boy get shot. Those girls were playing with the gun in the same room that the boy was in. God gave man free will, God did not make us PUPPETS. The grandmother that attends David Shatwell's church was obviously praying for a miracle, so when she asked the man to do a hospital visit (thats a normal thing for preacher to do) Rev. Shatwell felt in the Holy Ghost to do what he did. He did what he was told of God to do. The man that was mauled? He was either a) putting on a show or b) did not truely trust in God to save him.

Give me a break. Are you telling me that all the dead victims of Katrina and all the distroyed property was of people who "didn't really believe god would save them?"

Emigine yourselve interviewing a baby sitter:

You, "Ok, tell about me your qualifications"

Baby sitter, "Well. I've babysat over 200 kids. I shot one guy before he could shoot the kid. Another guy I let shoot the kid over and over then let him leave. Another I let him shoot the kid and only shot him 10 years after the fact"

(END)

Tell me, would you hire this baby sitter to watch your kid? Your answer should be no if you have any morals and I hope you do.

NOW, go look up omnipresent, omnibenevolent and omiscient and look at the story you are telling us here.

God didn't do anything to stop the boy getting shot. Your all loving god did nothing to prevent it. IT HAPPENED WHILE HE WAS WATCHING(according to your claim).

That would be like a doctor causing a car accident just so he can operate on the victims. I think it is sick that the boy would diserve a deity say, "Sorry Johny, you gonna get capped so people learn to kiss my butt". 

Here is reality and I cant help you face it unless you want help.

Bad things happen to good people and good people do bad things. There is no need to incert Superman vs Kriptonite claims to explain the obvious. A boy got shot. Millions of children around the world die every day. You really want to claim a super natural sky daddy to being in charge of that kind of death while allowing it to happen? Why not skip the magic and actually study crime and desease and look for real answers insted of making them up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

you don't understand how God deals with mankind

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


QuadrivialMind (not verified)
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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

you don't understand how God deals with mankind

Save it, Jebus boy. If you're going to say something, BACK IT UP. Don't just go around making naked assertions, because they're worthless. Try explaining something for a change. If you're "too busy" to elaborate, don't post at all. We won't miss you.

Besides, don't act like you would know how God would deal with mankind. Don't come here and tell us how God does this or does that when most of you Christians say "Um... God works in mysterious ways!" when you can't explain something.


Brian37
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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
GlamourKat wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
It wasn't Rev. Shatwell that healed the boy, it was God working through him that did it. Jesus said: Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not by the power of man, but only by the power and grace of God do these things happen.
Why did your god make the boy sick in the first place then? If he was just going to heal him? And if the reverend HADN'T decided to help or had never heard of him, would the boy have died? It just strikes me as odd. It doesn't make any sense. "Take up serpents." What about when religious snake handlers die from snake poison? Did they not pray hard enough? What about this man? KIEV (Reuters) - A man shouting that God would keep him safe was mauled to death by a lioness in Kiev zoo after he crept into the animal’s enclosure, a zoo official said on Monday. “The man shouted ‘God will save me, if he exists’, lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions,” the official said. “A lioness went straight for him, knocked him down and severed his carotid artery.” Pretty faithful to jump into a lion's den. He obviously thought he'd be fine. Pretty much wasn't. O_O I think a better question is how does a theist explain this? (My no-true-scotsman sense is tingling...)
What makes you think that God made this boy get shot. Those girls were playing with the gun in the same room that the boy was in. God gave man free will, God did not make us PUPPETS. The grandmother that attends David Shatwell's church was obviously praying for a miracle, so when she asked the man to do a hospital visit (thats a normal thing for preacher to do) Rev. Shatwell felt in the Holy Ghost to do what he did. He did what he was told of God to do. The man that was mauled? He was either a) putting on a show or b) did not truely trust in God to save him.

Give me a break. Are you telling me that all the dead victims of Katrina and all the distroyed property was of people who "didn't really believe god would save them?"

Emigine yourselve interviewing a baby sitter:

You, "Ok, tell about me your qualifications"

Baby sitter, "Well. I've babysat over 200 kids. I shot one guy before he could shoot the kid. Another guy I let shoot the kid over and over then let him leave. Another I let him shoot the kid and only shot him 10 years after the fact"

(END)

Tell me, would you hire this baby sitter to watch your kid? Your answer should be no if you have any morals and I hope you do.

NOW, go look up omnipresent, omnibenevolent and omiscient and look at the story you are telling us here.

God didn't do anything to stop the boy getting shot. Your all loving god did nothing to prevent it. IT HAPPENED WHILE HE WAS WATCHING(according to your claim).

That would be like a doctor causing a car accident just so he can operate on the victims. I think it is sick that the boy would diserve a deity say, "Sorry Johny, you gonna get capped so people learn to kiss my butt".

Here is reality and I cant help you face it unless you want help.

Bad things happen to good people and good people do bad things. There is no need to incert Superman vs Kriptonite claims to explain the obvious. A boy got shot. Millions of children around the world die every day. You really want to claim a super natural sky daddy to being in charge of that kind of death while allowing it to happen? Why not skip the magic and actually study crime and desease and look for real answers insted of making them up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

you don't understand how God deals with mankind

Of course I  understand how a person buys mythology. Your fictional claim is nothing but playdough. When you get faced with an absurdity you dodge and weave to avoid reality.

"It would suck if I was wrong" is the psychcology you have been so indoctrinated in that the thought of being exposed to reality is hard to take.

If humans want answers to desease, crime, famine and war, they need to put down their Torahs, Bibles and Qurans, and actually study these events to find ways to prevent them.

Your fictional dad in the sky hasnt stopped these things. Humans only find answers to life's problems when they study them. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


JeremiahSmith
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JesusLovesYou wrote: you

JesusLovesYou wrote:
you don't understand how God deals with mankind

That's because there's nothing to understand. All the claims about how God deals with mankind are incoherent messes of bad logic, wishful thinking, and a total lack of comprehension of absolute concepts like all-powerful and all-loving. If God exists, then he deals with mankind like a schizophrenic. And even that analogy fails, because we know that schizophrenics can be treated and that schizophrenics can't cause earthquakes.

Absolutely anything that happens can be folded into this twisted depiction of God. If God saves one little girl from a plane crash, while the other three hundred sixteen people on the plane died horribly, it's a miracle and God was there. If everybody on the plane dies, it was God's will and he works in mysterious ways. And because anything can be attributed to this God, regardless of how much harm or help it causes, the concept is worthless. In the mind of a Christian, the flowchart of God's action goes:

[DID IT HAPPEN] -> yes -> <GOD DID IT>

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.