Any Christians on the Forum? I was wanting to do some Rational Responding.
The subject line says it all.
If you accept Jesus as your savior and you think you have a strong argument or solid evidence bring it on.
I promise to be open minded, but I must warn you that reason and evidence to me are the final arbiters of truth.
Your life is a love story!
Was the "try again" really necessary? I mean.. didn't seem so. I will just take it as you joking as opposed to being pious/condescending/pretentious.
How can you say he is condescending, all you have is the evidence of his behavior. Or are you just having faith that he's condescending?
I'm using "solipsism" because that is what i believed what the accurate word to describe my assumption being made. So don't get to caught up with what "solipsism" actually is and pay more attention to what I'm saying. That there are two basic assumptions one can make about reality, both equally likely, both which would, in many case, affect conduct.
In that case subjectivity and objectivity would each be indistinct from the other. A variation, the Matrix scenario, I'd read somewhere could be tested by the building of a hypercomputer. In this case, there would still be an objective reality outside, while a virtual solipsism reigned within.
Virtual reality all ready exists, and its only arguably sollipsitic if you are a real person in the matrix. That is if you think to have a mind you have to have will. If you are a program, which I argue, that you have no reason to believe you are not according to your own arguments, since the only thing you can be sure of is your mind.
Whose to say my belief system isn't my "personal belief system," I certainly believe it is. It just happens to overlap with much of the "doctrinated faith" of Christianity.
I mean it seems this particular post was aimed more towards the Gnostic Theists, particularly Christians but I could be wrong.
Possibly. I was never meaning to engage with the original poster.. my first comment was just in response to someone else (If we don't count the "arrgh" comment).. and then, my following responses were to questions her counterpoints.
No offense but by your stand point of argument seem like you hold on to the self defeating term God maybe to form a view of escapism.
Sorry, but did you just choose God at random, since all you can be sure of is your own mind, why not Ammen-Ra, or Thor (personally I think Thor is much cooler) or why not believe as many gnostics do that the creator is cruel and that Jesus is not the same as God but is in fact a great hero that came to conquer the evil Creator. How did you choose to believe in God, since the only thing you can be sure of is your own mind ?
Er... no. The fact that you have doubt in your god doesn't mean that an atheist has faith.
According to the definition that is implied in my post, I would say so. Of course this is only my opinion. My definition is thus applied, to have it stated more specifically:
If actions are taken that are consistent with one assumption, because of the awareness of that assumption, and those same actions are not-consistent with another, alternative, assumption, even though both assumptions are equal in all respects, then that person acts with the "faith" that the first assumption is true.
"Faith"--a belief not based upon proof. What could more aptly describe why a person takes acts consistent with a non "proof based" assumption if not faith?
A person who acts as if there are consequences to actions doesn't necessarily have faith that there will be consequences to those actions.
Missing the point of the hypotheticals I posited. In these hypotheticals there will be no consequences unless one assumes that there are other people in the world, which would thus lead to "internal consequences"--such as, "it would make me feel bad to steal this even though I know I won't be caught."
Why would it make you feel bad unless you are assuming the person is an actual independent entity?
A person's presumptions probably do have an effect on that person's actions. This doesn't mean that everyone has such presumptions. I experience things. It doesn't require faith to know that I experience things (it is essentially the definition of knowing), regardless of if those things are actually related to any type of reality, objective, subjetive or non-existent.
See above. It's entirely possible that you would not feel bad "stealing something" even though you knew, 100%, that you would be caught. But if you do, I am positing that this "feeling of badness" is based upon the internal assumption, "faith," since it is an assumption not based upon proof, that these are actual independent people.
No disrespect, but you seem to be pussyfooting around, what is faith?
Faith is faith. It is a belief not based on proof.
Its funny MindCoreI cant make heads or tails of what hes saying seems too me Rhad is bending words to suit his needs as he already admitted he has weak arguements when your seeming to be looking too knockdown a few Ultra-Jeebus-lovers... well thats atleast your OP.
I don't think I'm bending words at all. Faith is a belief without proof. The argument is that if one "believes," i.e. assumes, implicitly or explicitly, that one premise is correct over another even though neither can be supported with "proof," i.e. necessarily leading to one conclusion (note: this is the definition most used around here, not mine), then this would be faith.
Two premises: People are independent entities or they are not. Proof does not necessarily lead to one or the other. Does not tend to lead to one or the other. Therefore, if a person accepts one of these as true, either explicitly or implicitly, then they have "faith" that it is true--regardless of whether they admit that the other "might be true."
Dude, I'm really hoping that you believe people are independent entities.
But I disagree that if people are independent entities than all of their perceptions are matters of faith.
But I'm hoping we can expand on this, that is if your faith that I was arrogant by telling wavefreak that he needs to try again, does not prevent your faith in the keyboard in front of you .
Dude I totally screwed up the quote thing on my last comment,
I hope you can forgive me.
I must have not had enough faith in the computer in front of me.
Your life is a love story!