Rational Response?

Tankalish
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Rational Response?

I've heard a number of convincing arguements for atheism on this site, but I must confess, I do believe this site has driven me further towards theism. There is this sect of Christians commonly referred to as fundamentalists. You think they're crazy. I think they're crazy. We think they're crazy. They make claims, some true, some false, and lots of straw men and red-herrings. Don't take offense at this, but a lot of the time ya'll have more in common with a fringe Christan sect than the intellectuals you claim to emulate. Everytime an atheist comes up with a new "proof" that theism is false  pentecostals declaring a new revelation. All I'm saying is come oany theist could mistake the enthusiasm and lack of critical analysis by fellow atheists for a bunch of americann, let's just get soem intergrity. It's called the Rational Response squad, I would at least expect ya'll to hold other atheists accountble for rationality. Is that so much to ask?


BMcD
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I can't personally hold

I can't personally hold anyone accountable to rationality. I can only try to remain rational myself. My suggestion to you, and to anyone else out there (and I know there are a number who've said as much) who finds that the people getting in your face and obnoxious about their active disbelief is... ignore them. The bottom line is, you're right.

And even if a lot of the others on this site think I'm being an apologist or going to easy on you or whatever, it comes down to this:

 

Any time someone is confronted with aggressive and beligerent attacks upon their beliefs, they will either completely ignore the attacker, or dig their heels in and become more stubborn, more defensive, and more extreme in their adherance to those beliefs.

 

This is basic human nature, and the atheists here who subscribe to those methods aren't trying to convince you they're right, no matter how much they may think they are. No-one has ever been convinced of anything through beligerence and denigration.

So, just like I do with televangelists, tune them out. Talk with the people who are willing to talk with you, discuss things with the people who are willing to have rational discussions with you. The people who give only insult and condescension aren't helping their cause any more than their counterparts in the religious community are. 

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


Tarpan
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Tankalish wrote: I've heard

Tankalish wrote:
I've heard a number of convincing arguements for atheism on this site, but I must confess, I do believe this site has driven me further towards theism. There is this sect of Christians commonly referred to as fundamentalists. You think they're crazy. I think they're crazy. We think they're crazy. They make claims, some true, some false, and lots of straw men and red-herrings. Don't take offense at this, but a lot of the time ya'll have more in common with a fringe Christan sect than the intellectuals you claim to emulate. Everytime an atheist comes up with a new "proof" that theism is false pentecostals declaring a new revelation. All I'm saying is come oany theist could mistake the enthusiasm and lack of critical analysis by fellow atheists for a bunch of americann, let's just get soem intergrity. It's called the Rational Response squad, I would at least expect ya'll to hold other atheists accountble for rationality. Is that so much to ask?

Um.  Rationally someone would at least glance at the recent posts at least or at least find out if anyone is attempting to hold atheists accountable before making a statement like this wouldn't they?

Kelly just hit on this topic most recently.  So thanks for comin' out.  Irrationality is irrationality regardless of who spews it.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/atheist_divisiveness_and_dogmatism 


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Tankalish

Tankalish wrote:

Quote:
There is this sect of Christians commonly referred to as fundamentalists. You think they're crazy. I think they're crazy. We think they're crazy. They make claims, some true, some false, and lots of straw men and red-herrings. Don't take offense at this, but a lot of the time ya'll have more in common with a fringe Christan sect than the intellectuals you claim to emulate.

A "fundamentalist" is only as "crazy" as the ideology or sacred scripture they literally adhere to. Are you suggesting that it's not the ideology or the sacred scripture that is the problem but the literal interpretation of it ?  Can the "crazy" be avoided if we simply trail mix what should be taken literally and what should not, according to our own personal taste ?  Does that sound rational to you ?  At what point do you propose we are grown up enough to either follow or reject an ideology/belief/sacred scripture based on its own merits, or lack thereof, and have the courage to just come out and say so ? (and I haven't even broached the harm said belief/beliefs may cause).  Explain to me how expressing objection to beliefs w/o merit would be considered fundamentalism ?

If you want to quantify the point you're trying to make, tell me, what ideology or sacred scripture do atheists dogmatically or fundamentally adhere to ? 

See, I think it's bold and liberating to shed dishonesty even if sometimes it hurts another's feelings or perhaps exposes their delusion.  For instance, don't take offense at this, but when I say your post is full of complete crap, it's not because I want to be hurtful toward you.. it's because I want you to know that your post is full of complete crap and want you to quantify it.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


wavefreak
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BMcD wrote: No-one has

BMcD wrote:

No-one has ever been convinced of anything through beligerence and denigration.

No?  Well crap. I wonder if I can get a refund on that baseball bat ... 


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Tankalish wrote: I've heard

Tankalish wrote:
I've heard a number of convincing arguements for atheism on this site, but I must confess, I do believe this site has driven me further towards theism.

A site that has many convincing arguments for atheism has driven you further towards theism? I find this to be an odd statement. How exactly does that work? If this site had no convincing arguments for atheism would that drive you further toward atheism?

Whether or not you agree with the tactics employed by a group says nothing towards whether or not their arguments are true. To read convincing arguments for atheism but cling to theism anyway, simply because you don't like the manner in which those arguments might sometimes be made, is irrational.   

Quote:
There is this sect of Christians commonly referred to as fundamentalists. You think they're crazy. I think they're crazy. We think they're crazy. They make claims, some true, some false, and lots of straw men and red-herrings.

 Fundamentalists are crazy, but I, in some ways, respect them more than I respect the non-fundamentalist theist. If there were a god as described in, say, the Bible, for example, then the fundamentalist would have much better support for their beliefs than the non-fundamentalist theist. Of course, the fact that many fundamentalist claims are demonstratably false, yet they hold them as true regardless, is what makes them crazy. This doesn't mean that the non-fundamentalist has any more claim to the truth of their watered down theistic claims.  

Quote:
Don't take offense at this, but a lot of the time ya'll have more in common with a fringe Christan sect than the intellectuals you claim to emulate.

If the claim is offensive people are going to take offense, especially when the claim is a unfounded assertion. Most people who say " don't take offense at this" are well aware that their claim is offensive. It would be more honest to simply state the claim, if you believe it to be true, and let the offense be taken where it may. The offensiveness of a claim has nothing to do with its truth.

Now, to address the offensive claim itself, can you point to specific examples where atheists here have shown themselves to have something of relevance in common with a fringe Christian sect? Who here has declared they are trying to emulate intellectuals? 

Quote:
Everytime an atheist comes up with a new "proof" that theism is false pentecostals declaring a new revelation.

Quote:
All I'm saying is come oany theist could mistake the enthusiasm and lack of critical analysis by fellow atheists for a bunch of americann, let's just get soem intergrity.

Again, ? 

Quote:
It's called the Rational Response squad, I would at least expect ya'll to hold other atheists accountble for rationality. Is that so much to ask?

Is it to much to ask that you provide examples of the claims you are making?  

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


stuntgibbon
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Vessel wrote: Is it to

Vessel wrote:

Is it to much to ask that you provide examples of the claims you are making?

Is this where he thinks we're being dogmatic?  Asking for proof to back up claims? 


Brian37
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Do not equate all atheists

Do not equate all atheists to "fundies". First off we dont make claims about disimbodied beings knocking up girls. We dont claim that human flesh can survive rigor mortis after 3 days. And we are not seeking a facist atheist goverment as those "crazies" as you so rightly call them, falsely sell. Those fundies are trying to take common law and shred it and relplace it with the dogmatic and sectarian divisive laws that existed pre-revolution.

We are all individuals here and DO NOT speak for each other. But many here do find comon ground in fighting things like teaching biblical based psuedo science in public schools. We do fight stupid stereotypes that we want a lawless society where anything goes, or that we want to become like Hitler.

We want humanity to think without ancient comic books. We want humanity to stop acting like parrots allowing religious people do the thinking that they should do for themselves.

Our society is incresingly becoming divided and dumbed down because it's focus is not on practical things like food, jobs, health and defense. Insted god belief in America is dividing us distracting us from real issues that effect us all.

I make no bones about my criticisms of hocus pocus claims and will never apollogize for it. If you make an absurd claim, I am going to call you on it. That doesnt make me an atheist "fundy", that merely makes me honest. I dont like lying to people, especially when it comes to reality. I am not going to sit by if a 50 year old man says Santa exists, or voodoo dolls work, what should I say to them? "Thats nice?". No, I am going to tell them the truth, that they believe in a lie.

If you want Mr Rogers neighborhood you need to find that library setting that atheists, and some do like that setting. But just like theists, we are just as diverse in our comfort level in discorse and we are not all the same. That doesnt make us crazy or fundy atheists.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Sapient
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Tarpan wrote: Tankalish

Tarpan wrote:

Tankalish wrote:
I've heard a number of convincing arguements for atheism on this site, but I must confess, I do believe this site has driven me further towards theism. There is this sect of Christians commonly referred to as fundamentalists. You think they're crazy. I think they're crazy. We think they're crazy. They make claims, some true, some false, and lots of straw men and red-herrings. Don't take offense at this, but a lot of the time ya'll have more in common with a fringe Christan sect than the intellectuals you claim to emulate. Everytime an atheist comes up with a new "proof" that theism is false pentecostals declaring a new revelation. All I'm saying is come oany theist could mistake the enthusiasm and lack of critical analysis by fellow atheists for a bunch of americann, let's just get soem intergrity. It's called the Rational Response squad, I would at least expect ya'll to hold other atheists accountble for rationality. Is that so much to ask?

Um.  Rationally someone would at least glance at the recent posts at least or at least find out if anyone is attempting to hold atheists accountable before making a statement like this wouldn't they?

Kelly just hit on this topic most recently.  So thanks for comin' out.  Irrationality is irrationality regardless of who spews it.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/atheist_divisiveness_and_dogmatism 

Furthermore, Tankalish seemed to assume what "Rational Response Squad" refers to.  It doesn't mean atheists are always rational, it merely means we are capable

of responding rationally to irrational claims.  

 

If you can show me how I disgrace my brain by doing what the theist does (USE FAITH) then you'll have something.   

- Brian Sapient


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