Why do you attack Christianity? [moved from FA]

JesusLovesYou
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Why do you attack Christianity? [moved from FA]

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?  Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back.  If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity.  Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction? 

 

 You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!! 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


latincanuck
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umm actually islam is

umm actually islam is fought against here, but obviously you haven't bothered to check, second, you obviously can't read, you should have posted this in either atheists vs theists, general converstions, or kill them with kindness.

    Next many here have read the bible and know it probably far better than you, including myself (although i have never believed in my life in the bible, the quran or the torah, all which i have read and studied). Also umm check christianities history of hatred, racisim, sexism and murder. 

Third, hip hop is not a religion, it's music genre to which many many many artists fall under, ever listen to Lupe Fiasco? K-os? Rascals? Swollem Members? Kanye West? There are many many artists in the hip hop community that don't sing about the white man being inferior (which is bullshit statement anyways since "white man being inferior" is not a major theme in the hip hop community) Judasim is attacked, buddhism, well actually any religion based on the fallacy that there is some type of god or has religious dogma that requires blind faith to follow is attacked, dismantalled and shown it's errors.

    Christianity however happens to be the one that the majority of people here live with, as a society. Most are from Western countries, as such the majority is christianity, the majority of theists are christians that come in here, not to many islamics or jews that I am aware of, as such yes christianity get the majority of the attacks becauses many of us are affected by the decisions made by christians in our society. Got that yet?

    So yeah lets get it all right here, many (but not all) have read the bible, many are former believers (not myself I never believed from the get go) many understand the bible far better than you. All religions are attacked, Hip hop is not a religion, and you cannot read and should go back to school or a community centre and learn again.


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Yes, the vast majority of us

Yes, the vast majority of us read it and realize it's bullshit. By the way, you aren't allowed to post in this forum if you are a theist. Have you read the rules of this site? Do you have any evidence Christianity is based on truth (you can't count the BuyBull)? There are plenty of things in that asshat book that are ridiculous, obviously false, and immoral.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


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latincanuck wrote: umm

latincanuck wrote:

umm actually islam is fought against here, but obviously you haven't bothered to check, second, you obviously can't read, you should have posted this in either atheists vs theists, general converstions, or kill them with kindness.

Next many here have read the bible and know it probably far better than you, including myself (although i have never believed in my life in the bible, the quran or the torah, all which i have read and studied). Also umm check christianities history of hatred, racisim, sexism and murder.

Third, hip hop is not a religion, it's music genre to which many many many artists fall under, ever listen to Lupe Fiasco? K-os? Rascals? Swollem Members? Kanye West? There are many many artists in the hip hop community that don't sing about the white man being inferior (which is bullshit statement anyways since "white man being inferior" is not a major theme in the hip hop community) Judasim is attacked, buddhism, well actually any religion based on the fallacy that there is some type of god or has religious dogma that requires blind faith to follow is attacked, dismantalled and shown it's errors.

Christianity however happens to be the one that the majority of people here live with, as a society. Most are from Western countries, as such the majority is christianity, the majority of theists are christians that come in here, not to many islamics or jews that I am aware of, as such yes christianity get the majority of the attacks becauses many of us are affected by the decisions made by christians in our society. Got that yet?

So yeah lets get it all right here, many (but not all) have read the bible, many are former believers (not myself I never believed from the get go) many understand the bible far better than you. All religions are attacked, Hip hop is not a religion, and you cannot read and should go back to school or a community centre and learn again.

ok...this is why i don't believe you.  you see look at the history of christianity's hate, murder etc.  How far back did you look?  The early church, the first christians did non of that.  THEY were the one's persecuted, THEY were the ones killed, etc.  The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries.  

Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.

KRS-ONE said:
"In Hip-Hop there are no gods or goddesses. We are the gods and goddesses. We say to each other, "peace god, peace goddess." This concept has been lent to us by the 5% nation of gods and earths. Be God, stop worshipping God. Be God. If your religion is Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah, and , be Allah. If your religion is Judaism, stop studying the 5 books of Moses. Be the law. Be Moses. If you are Christian stop worhipping Jesus Christ and calling his name out. Be Jesus Christ. Be Buddha. Be Krishna."

I was completely shocked when i saw that. stop worshipping Jesus? Stop calling on His name? how can anybody say that this music isn't the devil!!!!!

He mentioned the 5% Nation of Gods and Earths. This is their beliefs:
1. That black people are the original people of the planet earth.
2. That black people are the fathers and mothers of civilization
3. That science of Supreme Mathematics is the key to understanding man's relationship to the universe.
4. Islam is a natural way of life, not a religion.
5. That education should be fashioned to enable us to be self sufficient as a people.
6. That each one should teach one according to their knowledge.
7. That the blackman is god and his proper name is ALLAH. Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head.
8. That our children are our link to the future and they must be nutured, respected, loved, protected, and educated. (ok, nothing wrong with that ).
9. That the unified black family is the vital building block of the nation.

some people that practice this religion are Erykah Badu, Alicia Keys, Jill Scott, The Fugees, Nas, the Roots, Wu-Tang Clan, Common, and A Tribe Called Quest(whom are orthodox muslims)

De'Angelo-
" I am using the word "Artist" loosely. I personally believe in art as it exist in the context of the phrase "Thou art God." In This phrase, Art is the word that connects the individual(thou) to their higher self (God) or to that which is universal. We have come adorned in the apparel of the anointed. Leather and feathers, jeans and t-shirts, linen and cashmere, and even polyester. We have come to seduce and serenade the night and the powers of darkness. We speak of darkness, not as ignorance, but as the unknown and the mysteries of the unseen."
 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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Quote: Why do you attack

Quote:
Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?

Why do you insist on hijacking the word "truth"?

Quote:
Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back.

Yes, intensely, when I was a born again delusionalist. "Digging in" to the holey book is what convinced me that I was becoming a brainwashed, intellectually lazy moron.

Quote:
Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop...

Huh? Oh, you're one of those Marginalize-By-Equivocation-Fallacy idiots.

Quote:
Why don't you attack Islam...

We (RRS) scrutinize all mythologies that attempt to impose their control fantasies on the rest of the world.

Quote:
...the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?

Hmm, maybe YOU should try a thorough, non-cherry-picking read of your precious bible.

Quote:
You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

Shining the light of critical thought, logic, and reason on this religiously irrational world we live in? We know exactly what we're doing, pal.

 

 

 


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

ok...this is why i don't believe you.  you see look at the history of christianity's hate, murder etc.  How far back did you look?  The early church, the first christians did non of that.  THEY were the one's persecuted, THEY were the ones killed, etc.  The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries.  

Yeah, they were called Jews.

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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:
latincanuck wrote:

 

ok...this is why i don't believe you. you see look at the history of christianity's hate, murder etc. How far back did you look? The early church, the first christians did non of that. THEY were the one's persecuted, THEY were the ones killed, etc. The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries.

Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.

KRS-ONE said:
"In Hip-Hop there are no gods or goddesses. We are the gods and goddesses. We say to each other, "peace god, peace goddess." This concept has been lent to us by the 5% nation of gods and earths. Be God, stop worshipping God. Be God. If your religion is Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah, and , be Allah. If your religion is Judaism, stop studying the 5 books of Moses. Be the law. Be Moses. If you are Christian stop worhipping Jesus Christ and calling his name out. Be Jesus Christ. Be Buddha. Be Krishna."

I was completely shocked when i saw that. stop worshipping Jesus? Stop calling on His name? how can anybody say that this music isn't the devil!!!!!

He mentioned the 5% Nation of Gods and Earths. This is their beliefs:
1. That black people are the original people of the planet earth.
2. That black people are the fathers and mothers of civilization
3. That science of Supreme Mathematics is the key to understanding man's relationship to the universe.
4. Islam is a natural way of life, not a religion.
5. That education should be fashioned to enable us to be self sufficient as a people.
6. That each one should teach one according to their knowledge.
7. That the blackman is god and his proper name is ALLAH. Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head.
8. That our children are our link to the future and they must be nutured, respected, loved, protected, and educated. (ok, nothing wrong with that ).
9. That the unified black family is the vital building block of the nation.

some people that practice this religion are Erykah Badu, Alicia Keys, Jill Scott, The Fugees, Nas, the Roots, Wu-Tang Clan, Common, and A Tribe Called Quest(whom are orthodox muslims)

De'Angelo-
" I am using the word "Artist" loosely. I personally believe in art as it exist in the context of the phrase "Thou art God." In This phrase, Art is the word that connects the individual(thou) to their higher self (God) or to that which is universal. We have come adorned in the apparel of the anointed. Leather and feathers, jeans and t-shirts, linen and cashmere, and even polyester. We have come to seduce and serenade the night and the powers of darkness. We speak of darkness, not as ignorance, but as the unknown and the mysteries of the unseen."

WOW, KRS-ONE when the hell did i hear from him in the hip hop community? oh yeah freaking like 10 years ago, D'Angelo....hip hop artists? D'Angelo that had only one hit and is considered a R & B and American Soul Singer yeah great representation of the hip hop community, at least I gave you a variety of artists, lets check them again, Lupe Fiasco, A muslim hip hop artists that speaks about his community where he grew up, his love of skateboading (listen to kick push), fanstasy (daydreaming great song), girls (and he gets the girl) and kids growing up with out fathers (all featured in his food and liquror album). Swollen members canadian based trio that is formed by Mad Child (white) Prevail (black) Moka only (mixed black and white) K-Os (christian black) speaks about community and things occuring around the world but multiculturlism, Kanye West (christian black) mainly about women, and making it big, Rascals about events and things that happen in their community and in the world. You make mention of 2 people and that REPRESENTS THE ENTIRE HIP HOP GENRE? and now it's a religion? wow you have no clue.

    Second christianty became a force in 365 roughly when it became the official religion of roman (thank you constantine) and for only maybe 300 years it was persecuted, yet for the past 1700 years it has persecurted jews, muslims, pagans, non believers and others with in the christian sects. Yeah ok nice trying to get out of that one there wanker.

    Yeah i know, oh yeah and the bible is truth? I don't think so, it's has some stories of morality but it ain't truth. 


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JesusLovesYou wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth? Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back. If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity. Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?

 

You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

Never mind, I can't read today.

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latincanuck

latincanuck wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
latincanuck wrote:

 

ok...this is why i don't believe you. you see look at the history of christianity's hate, murder etc. How far back did you look? The early church, the first christians did non of that. THEY were the one's persecuted, THEY were the ones killed, etc. The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries.

Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.

KRS-ONE said:
"In Hip-Hop there are no gods or goddesses. We are the gods and goddesses. We say to each other, "peace god, peace goddess." This concept has been lent to us by the 5% nation of gods and earths. Be God, stop worshipping God. Be God. If your religion is Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah, and , be Allah. If your religion is Judaism, stop studying the 5 books of Moses. Be the law. Be Moses. If you are Christian stop worhipping Jesus Christ and calling his name out. Be Jesus Christ. Be Buddha. Be Krishna."

I was completely shocked when i saw that. stop worshipping Jesus? Stop calling on His name? how can anybody say that this music isn't the devil!!!!!

He mentioned the 5% Nation of Gods and Earths. This is their beliefs:
1. That black people are the original people of the planet earth.
2. That black people are the fathers and mothers of civilization
3. That science of Supreme Mathematics is the key to understanding man's relationship to the universe.
4. Islam is a natural way of life, not a religion.
5. That education should be fashioned to enable us to be self sufficient as a people.
6. That each one should teach one according to their knowledge.
7. That the blackman is god and his proper name is ALLAH. Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head.
8. That our children are our link to the future and they must be nutured, respected, loved, protected, and educated. (ok, nothing wrong with that ).
9. That the unified black family is the vital building block of the nation.

some people that practice this religion are Erykah Badu, Alicia Keys, Jill Scott, The Fugees, Nas, the Roots, Wu-Tang Clan, Common, and A Tribe Called Quest(whom are orthodox muslims)

De'Angelo-
" I am using the word "Artist" loosely. I personally believe in art as it exist in the context of the phrase "Thou art God." In This phrase, Art is the word that connects the individual(thou) to their higher self (God) or to that which is universal. We have come adorned in the apparel of the anointed. Leather and feathers, jeans and t-shirts, linen and cashmere, and even polyester. We have come to seduce and serenade the night and the powers of darkness. We speak of darkness, not as ignorance, but as the unknown and the mysteries of the unseen."

WOW, KRS-ONE when the hell did i hear from him in the hip hop community? oh yeah freaking like 10 years ago, D'Angelo....hip hop artists? D'Angelo that had only one hit and is considered a R & B and American Soul Singer yeah great representation of the hip hop community, at least I gave you a variety of artists, lets check them again, Lupe Fiasco, A muslim hip hop artists that speaks about his community where he grew up, his love of skateboading (listen to kick push), fanstasy (daydreaming great song), girls (and he gets the girl) and kids growing up with out fathers (all featured in his food and liquror album). Swollen members canadian based trio that is formed by Mad Child (white) Prevail (black) Moka only (mixed black and white) K-Os (christian black) speaks about community and things occuring around the world but multiculturlism, Kanye West (christian black) mainly about women, and making it big, Rascals about events and things that happen in their community and in the world. You make mention of 2 people and that REPRESENTS THE ENTIRE HIP HOP GENRE? and now it's a religion? wow you have no clue.

Second christianty became a force in 365 roughly when it became the official religion of roman (thank you constantine) and for only maybe 300 years it was persecuted, yet for the past 1700 years it has persecurted jews, muslims, pagans, non believers and others with in the christian sects. Yeah ok nice trying to get out of that one there wanker.

Yeah i know, oh yeah and the bible is truth? I don't think so, it's has some stories of morality but it ain't truth.

yes he is an old artist, but do you homework.  those are the priciples it was founded on.  you are right that christianity became a force, but don't blame Jesus for what PEOPLE did a few hundred years after it originated, and again not to mention the fact that the roman christianity isn't Jesus' Christianity, it is christianity PAGANIZED.  I guarantee you people get ur ideas of hatred and destruction in christianity from the OT, but remember, when Christ took the cross the covenant of the Jews was no more.  I want you to find any scripture where JESUS condones hatred and violence.  And when i say hatred I mean against MAN, not against sin because sin is a thought, a spirit, an idea, not man.  If you cannot find this IN PROPER CONTEXT, that you CANNOT say that Christianity is to blame for the Holy Roman Empire, but the PEOPLE themselves. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: Why

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?

Prove religion is true you deluded ignorant fool. 

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


JesusLovesYou
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aiia wrote: JesusLovesYou

aiia wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?

Prove religion is true you deluded ignorant fool.

who said anything about "religion" being true. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: aiia

JesusLovesYou wrote:
aiia wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?

Prove religion is true you deluded ignorant fool.

who said anything about "religion" being true.

Um, you did when you said Christianity is based on truth.  You are implying equivocation of Christianity with "truth" when you say  "based on".

 


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HC Grindon

HC Grindon wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
aiia wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?

Prove religion is true you deluded ignorant fool.

who said anything about "religion" being true.

Um, you did when you said Christianity is based on truth. You are implying equivocation of Christianity with "truth" when you say "based on".

No, no, no, you misunderstand him. He's one of those idiots who believes the sentiment that Christianity isn't a religion, it's a personal relationship with Christ. 

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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HC Grindon

HC Grindon wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:
aiia wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?

Prove religion is true you deluded ignorant fool.

who said anything about "religion" being true.

Um, you did when you said Christianity is based on truth. You are implying equivocation of Christianity with "truth" when you say "based on".

 

sorry bad choice of words.  im not talking about "religion" im talking about Jesus. Spirit AND Truth.  

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: sorry

JesusLovesYou wrote:
sorry bad choice of words.  im not talking about "religion" im talking about Jesus. Spirit AND Truth.  
Exhibit substantiation.

1) jesus

2) spirit

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Sometimes when I'm on the

Sometimes when I'm on the keyboard, I have RnB/hip hop style ideas coming and I play them because I think they sound good and they make me feel well. I also like jazz and metal.

 Would you consider me religious, JLY ? 


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.
KRS-ONE said:
"In Hip-Hop there are no gods or goddesses. We are the gods and goddesses. We say to each other, "peace god, peace goddess." This concept has been lent to us by the 5% nation of gods and earths. Be God, stop worshipping God. Be God. If your religion is Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah, and , be Allah. If your religion is Judaism, stop studying the 5 books of Moses. Be the law. Be Moses. If you are Christian stop worhipping Jesus Christ and calling his name out. Be Jesus Christ. Be Buddha. Be Krishna."

Hmm sounds like some sort of atheist credo or May be its same crazy neo-pagen something something  where you become a god after death however I define it as a atheistic credo or something.

Besides Hip-Hop is a music not a religion ! You can equally say rock is a religion of the devil and I give you examples of Christian rock bands .

JesusLovesYou wrote:
This is their beliefs:


Next you get total insane without even being consistent with yourself I will use you won quotes to disprove you.


JesusLovesYou wrote:
4. Islam is a natural way of life, not a religion.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah

Whatever this doesn’t make sense

JesusLovesYou wrote:
7. That the blackman is god and his proper name is ALLAH. Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head.

??? WTF is the Arm , leg , leg … BS ???

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah

 

You win the BSI award.

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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Milkshake89

Milkshake89 wrote:

Sometimes when I'm on the keyboard, I have RnB/hip hop style ideas coming and I play them because I think they sound good and they make me feel well. I also like jazz and metal.

Would you consider me religious, JLY ?

 

You misunderstand what i am saying.  You can look this stuff up.  Afrika Bambaata, back in the 1970's went to Africa and learned the teachings of the Amazulu, along with the beliefs of Pharoah.  He formed the Zulu Nation, and a culture called "hip-hop", which he made an organized religion as well.  The basis of this religion is centering around the black man, proclaiming godship authority (you can find this also by analyzing alot of song lyrics for example "the anthem" by Jay-Z.  They also got influenced by 5% nation of gods and earths, who's beliefs i've shown earlier.   These beliefs haven't changed, but are the same as they were 30 years ago.  TRUE Christianity is not like that...the Christianity you fight is the latter formed roman paganized Christianity, which is not the Christianity of the Bible.  Stop fighting what it good, and help me fight what is evil, such as hip-hop.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: yes

JesusLovesYou wrote:

yes he is an old artist, but do you homework. those are the priciples it was founded on.

From the Oxford dictionary: religion 1. belief in the existence of a god or gods who has/have created the universe and given man a spiritual nature which continues to exist after the death of the body 2. a particular system of faith and worship based on such belief.

Please show me where hip hop meets any of these criteria.  

JesusLovesYou wrote:

you are right that christianity became a force, but don't blame Jesus for what PEOPLE did a few hundred years after it originated,

So poor, helpless Jesus did his best but people messed it up? Did Jesus know this was going to happen? If so, why didn't he do things differently?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

and again not to mention the fact that the roman christianity isn't Jesus' Christianity, it is christianity PAGANIZED.

I love the fervour with which you lash out at another's beliefs. How very Christian of you.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

I guarantee you people get ur ideas of hatred and destruction in christianity from the OT, but remember, when Christ took the cross the covenant of the Jews was no more.

Jesus disagrees with you: 

Matthew 5: 17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

I want you to find any scripture where JESUS condones hatred and violence. And when i say hatred I mean against MAN, not against sin because sin is a thought, a spirit, an idea, not man. If you cannot find this IN PROPER CONTEXT, that you CANNOT say that Christianity is to blame for the Holy Roman Empire, but the PEOPLE themselves.

The Roman empire predated Christianity. I think you are talking about the RC Church. Are you really going to say that Jesus was not to blame for the founding of the RC Church? Was it not his mission to convert the Roman empire? Did he not designate Peter the rock on which his church would be built? Should we not be able to expect that the Son of God would have been able to see the consequences of his actions?  

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Whatever you think about

Whatever you think about Hip Hop.. let me assure you, it's no religion, but anyways...

 

Here is why the homophobic and misogynistic Christian religion can kiss my ass and go fuck itself. And yes, Islam can go fuck itself to.

 

Even though I was born in a very liberal, religious less and very open part of the world. My mom, was not. I was raised by a Jesus fucking freak mother who made me attend every single thing that the church had planned for me. I was brought up to be servile, feel guilty and hate gay people because they are : Abominations that god despises so much he nuked an entire city because some folk over there were fucking themselves up the ass.

 

Yes Jebus is all about love and forgiving and honesty and the golden rule and blablabla...

 

- Guess what mom ! I am a lesbian !

 

So she replied :

 

- You realize that you make me have to choose between you or God ? Of course I am going to choose God !

 

I haven't seen her in 4 years now. Have she not been religious I would still have a mother. Thanks to your hateful church I am now motherless so don't come preaching to me about the vertus and love of your intolerant church.

 

God should have added an 11th commandment : Thou shalt honor your children.

 

 

Si Dieu existe, c'est Son problème !
If God exists, it's His problem !--Graffiti on the walls of the Sorbonne (France), May 1968
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zarathustra
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First of all, pardon my

First of all, pardon my avatar.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?

Among other reasons, we attack xianity because its adherents cling to repulsive circular logic such as you're demonstrating here.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back. If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity.

Have you actually read the bible? And I mean by learning ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and koine Greek so as to read the texts in their original form? With ample knowledge of the time and culture in which the texts were produced?

While we're on it, have you actually listened to rap lyrics? And I mean listen by digging into it, not just hearing the words from front to back.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man.

Hip-hop is not a religion just because you happen not to like it. You may be quite shocked to know who the main consumers of rap music are. Perhaps you need reminding that members of your "religion based on truth" used Genesis 9:24 to justify the enslavement of blacks.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?

Not the religion based on upon hate, death and destruction, just one of many so based. And yes, your religion is one of them. Go learn some history.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
you are right that christianity became a force, but don't blame Jesus for what PEOPLE did a few hundred years after it originated, and again not to mention the fact that the roman christianity isn't Jesus' Christianity, it is christianity PAGANIZED.

Sure. And when hip hop preaches bad things, it's not real hip-hop, it's hip-hop PAGANIZED. And when islam exhibits hate, death, and destruction, it's not real islam, it's islam PAGANIZED.

Circular reasoning, no true Scotsmen...what half-baked fallacy will pull out of your fanny pack next?

There are no theists on operating tables.

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Just because some five

Just because some five percenters are into hip hop doesn't make hip hop a religion nor does it mean that everyone who listens to hip hop is a five percenter.

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All I seem to be hearing

All I seem to be hearing from JesusLovesYou is a spin in history in order to support racist and xenophobic viewpoints. Leave it up to a racist christian to attack one of the major cultural achievements of the one of the most oppressed groups in our country. Did you know Jesus was Black or Arab and no WHITE??

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


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Ok hip hop is used by 5

Ok hip hop is used by 5 percenters.....that makes hip hop a religion? Kanye West is a christian (listen to Jesus walks) does that make hip hop now christian and religious? How about Mohammad walks by lupe fiasco does that make it islamic and religious? How about ALL THE other white hip hop artists, they against the whiteys? How about all the non 5 percenters? I mean serious do you have any clue about the origins of hip hop?

    Let me educate you and blast away your ignorance. Hip hop origins start from Rap, and from the bronx, Rap if you all know came from Jamaica, which was introduced to the states by Clive Campbell aka Kool Herc, who was born and raised in Jamaica, now there they called it toasting, it changed to rap in the US, now the major introducer to the term coined as hip hop is from Keith Cowboy and DJ hollywood of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five (we are still talking the 70's here ok), who it is believed that Cowboy created the term while teasing a friend who had just joined the US Army, by scat singing the words "hip/hop/hip/hop" in a way that mimicked the rhythmic cadence of marching soldiers, Cowboy later worked the "hip hop" cadence into a part of his stage performance, which was quickly copied by other artists; for example the opening of the song "Rapper's Delight" by The SugarHill Gang. Now so far we have Jamaican influence, Bronx black and lation influences, we have a whole culture of influence, but no 5 percenters yet, they don't even enter the scene till the mid 80's, so far we are still in the 70's. Now hip hop is further defined in 83 when Afrika Bambaataa and the Soulsonic Force released a track called Planet Rock. Also part of the Hip hop culture at the time was BreakDancing, Graffitti art, and rapping. Now hip hop turned for a worse in the 90's thanks in part to the rise of Gangster rap, some of the greatest artists of hip hop are christians, Run DMC (christians) LL Cool J (christian), plus all the other ones I have mentioned, the 5 percenters are few, Erykah Badu, Busta Ryme, Wu Tang Clan, Rakim are probably the biggest names. But Hip hop as a religion I am sorry your an idiot for that statement, it's a culture and music genre, but it ain't turning people to believe blindly in the 5 percenters dogma.

    There is a HUGE gap in your knowledge, and yes I do know of the 5 percenters, they are just as daft as christians, except they haven't come down stating that I have to live their way, nor have they threaten me with death....not yet anyways. However your knowledge of christianity (again attacking christianty is attacking that religion, i can attack jesus/god separately), and hip hop is fucking huge, get an education please. Your Ignorance is blinding. 


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JesusLovesYou wrote: Also

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.

KRS-ONE said:
"In Hip-Hop there are no gods or goddesses. We are the gods and goddesses. We say to each other, "peace god, peace goddess." This concept has been lent to us by the 5% nation of gods and earths. Be God, stop worshipping God. Be God. If your religion is Islam, eliminate the distance, stop worshipping Allah, and , be Allah. If your religion is Judaism, stop studying the 5 books of Moses. Be the law. Be Moses. If you are Christian stop worhipping Jesus Christ and calling his name out. Be Jesus Christ. Be Buddha. Be Krishna."

(snip)

He mentioned the 5% Nation of Gods and Earths. This is their beliefs:
1. That black people are the original people of the planet earth.
2. That black people are the fathers and mothers of civilization
3. That science of Supreme Mathematics is the key to understanding man's relationship to the universe.
4. Islam is a natural way of life, not a religion.
5. That education should be fashioned to enable us to be self sufficient as a people.
6. That each one should teach one according to their knowledge.
7. That the blackman is god and his proper name is ALLAH. Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head.
8. That our children are our link to the future and they must be nutured, respected, loved, protected, and educated. (ok, nothing wrong with that ).
9. That the unified black family is the vital building block of the nation.

Try this: come up with an alternate explanation for why these nine things were written. C'mon, you can do it! Use your imagination! Use your personal knowledge and experience! 

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maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.


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Tilberian wrote: Jesus

Tilberian wrote:

Jesus disagrees with you:

Matthew 5: 17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.

 

This verse you have given me, you have shown a level of misunderstanding.  You are not looking at the context. What was the law? the law was PROPHETIC of Christ.  When Christ came he FULFILLED those prophesies.  When a prophesy has been fulfilled it cannot be fulfilled again, therefore it is no longer valid. THATS what that verse means. 

Now do what i asked and find me somewhere in the Bible, where Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or any other epistle writer condones "hate, kill, destroy, etc." and please take things in context this time.   

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: sorry

JesusLovesYou wrote:
sorry bad choice of words. im not talking about "religion" im talking about Jesus. Spirit AND Truth.

See? I totally called that shit.

I'm going to have to update my list of "People who I'll just make fun of because they're too stupid to have a meaningful debate with".

JEREMIAH SMITH'S NEW UPDATED LIST OF PEOPLE TOO DUMB TO DEBATE WITH

  1. People who believe the universe is 6000 years old.

  2. Christians who say Christianity isn't a religion.

Did I forget anyone?

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Quote: Why don't you

Quote:

Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?

Why don't you shut up until you have done the proper inquiry, you shallow-minded idiot: 

Islam

 

Quote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?  

That bare assertion can be reversed to find why one would attack Christianity. Add a negative prefix in front of truth.

Quote:

 Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!!

Well, in principle all forms of religion are attacked. However, being that the bulk of the membership is from the United States, where Christianity is the dominant virus (as opposed to, say, Iran, where Islam is the dominant virus) it is understable that the bulk of their efforts would be against Christianity. Now, I, being in Hong Kong, am much more concerned with whatever religion is going to affect me most. Since religion is spat upon here, only the religion with far reaching global ability to induce misery would be a serious concern to me. Christianity has this capacity. But today it is much more Islam.

Quote:

  You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

I quite assure I do. In one form or another, I've been debating theism for 17 years. It is a philosophically incoherent system. 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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Earlier today I started to

Earlier today I started to respond to this thread by saying:

"This guy isn't even worth the time I just wasted typing this sentence."

Then I decided he really wasn't worth the time it would take to type the sentence, so I didn't say anything. With someone so deluded he looks like a troll--you never can tell with religious zealots--is it worth our time to even say anything? This is the second time I've asked myself that question today.

Maybe any response is for those reading the thread rather than for the one who, as Jeremiah laments, believes Christianity isn't a religion and that the earth is only 6000 years old. (Fuck, I just realized the music director at the local junior college, plus most of my family, qualify on both counts. Sad Sad, isn't it?)

So, is it worth our time to even talk to someone like this? It's rare that anyone this batshit crazy actually comes to their senses, but perhaps readers of such threads can carry away something positive.

What do you think?

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Iruka Naminori wrote: Maybe

Iruka Naminori wrote:
Maybe any response is for those reading the thread rather than for the one who, as Jeremiah laments, believes Christianity isn't a religion and that the earth is only 6000 years old.

Even when I'm joking around I'm still right. I am so awesome!

Quote:
So, is it worth our time to even talk to someone like this? It's rare that anyone this batshit crazy actually comes to their senses, but perhaps readers of such threads can carry away something positive.

What do you think?

It's long been a tenet of Internet debates that 99 times out of 100, the only people who benefit, if any, from them are the fence-sitting lurkers. 

One could also make the argument that debating, even against an opponent who is dumber than shit, helps to refine your arguments and the manner in which they are presented. When you're dealing with idiots, you soon realize that if you want your points to sink in at all, you have to learn to whittle down dense tomes full of technical jargon into clear and concise points that anybody could understand. It's a good talent to learn, and you might as well practice against a dummy before you go against real opponents.

I think one of the reasons creationists went onto the list is not because they're too stupid to debate with but because there's not really any benefit to myself. It's always the same arguments from them, so there's no real way to refine my arguments anymore without whittling them down into "You fucking idiot." If a creationist came here with a new (or at least uncommon) argument, I'd probably be happy to discuss it with them, so I could learn to rebut a new argument. But creationists so rarely bring up anything I've never read a couple dozen times before.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Tilberian wrote:

Jesus disagrees with you:

Matthew 5: 17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.

This verse you have given me, you have shown a level of misunderstanding.  You are not looking at the context. What was the law? the law was PROPHETIC of Christ.  When Christ came he FULFILLED those prophesies.  When a prophesy has been fulfilled it cannot be fulfilled again, therefore it is no longer valid. THATS what that verse means. 

Now do what i asked and find me somewhere in the Bible, where Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or any other epistle writer condones "hate, kill, destroy, etc." and please take things in context this time.   

Luke Chapter 19 Verse 27

Jesus:

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke Chapter 14 Verse 26

Jesus:

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters...he cannot be my disciple."

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Tilberian wrote:

Jesus disagrees with you:

Matthew 5: 17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.

This verse you have given me, you have shown a level of misunderstanding. You are not looking at the context. What was the law? the law was PROPHETIC of Christ. When Christ came he FULFILLED those prophesies. When a prophesy has been fulfilled it cannot be fulfilled again, therefore it is no longer valid. THATS what that verse means.

What a wonderful trick. If the word that Jesus used causes a problem, just change the word! Jesus didn't mean "law," he meant "prophecy." Of course! It's so obvious! How could I have been so foolish as to read the actual words that were written on the page?

The problem with this approach is that you are now claiming a greater proficiency in translating Hebrew and a greater level of theological knowledge than the people who translated the KJV Bible. Based on what you've posted here so far, I'd bet a great deal of money that you have neither.

In the KJV, Jesus says that he's there to fulfill the law, not a prophecy. The word prophecy is used many times in the KJV and by Jesus himself, so there's no reason why he couldn't have used it there if he wanted to.

Furthermore, Jesus also makes the point of saying that he's not there to "destroy" the law. Now if his arrival meant that the old law of the OT wasn't going to apply to Jews any more, the only people who it ever applied to, how would that not be destroying it?

It's quite clear that Jesus is reassuring his listeners that every "jot and tittle" of the old laws still apply.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Now do what i asked and find me somewhere in the Bible, where Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or any other epistle writer condones "hate, kill, destroy, etc." and please take things in context this time.

I opened my NT randomly and here is what I read:

Corinthians 5:1-5 It is actually reported that there is a sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among the pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgement on the one who did this, just as if I were present. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

What a poisonous bit of hate-filled polemic! First we are greeted with the insidious idea that there is such a thing as "sexual immorality," an idea that has poisoned the minds and ruined the lives of countless millions of people ever since.

Then we get a dash of religious intolerance, as the pagans are mentioned with contempt.

Then the crime is named: sleeping with your father's wife. Note that Paul doesn't say "your mother." So the crime isn't really about incest, but rather the fanatical Judeo-Christian marriage customs. If your mother died and your father remarried, then died, you would be equally condemned for sleeping with his widow!

Paul moves on to marvel that the Corinthians could find it in their hearts to tolerate such a person, prescribing instead that he be despised and ostracised. Wait a minute, I thought Christians were supposed to be the ones filled with love and mercy! 

Next we learn that Paul need not even be present in order to pronounce judgement on sinners - a revolting perversion of justice.

Finally we arrive at the recommendation: to "give this man to Satan." There can be no other interpretation of this than as an exhortation to kill and, worse, to kill in the full expectation that the victim will be tortured eternally.

In light of all that has gone before, the final mention of saving the victim's spirit can only be viewed as a particularly putrid bit of hypocrisy.

Let's see you try to spin your way out of this, JLY, before I take another five minutes and find another NT passage encouraging Christians to hate and kill.

 

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"Why do you attack

"Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?"

I don't suppose that "truth" would have anything to do with evidence would it?

"If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity."

Why would the all-perfect word of your god lead me to the incorrect conclusion? If I didn't read it right, lodge a complaint with your god not me.

"Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man."

Lol. Hip-hop is a religion? Non-sequiter. This has nothing to do with the rest of the post.

"Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?"

How so? Have your read The Qur'an or Hadith texts? We do "attack" Islam, just not at the frequency we do Christianity.

I hope they cannot see
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living inside of me
to murder everything.
I hope they cannot see
I am the great destroyer.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: Why

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!!  

 Racism isssues huh?

 


I AM GOD AS YOU
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   JesusLovesYou, Why do

   JesusLovesYou, Why do you attack Christianitiy ?

--- Because I am caring on the idea of ATHEIST Jesus

Xianity it is a religion based on Bull Shit ....


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

ok...this is why i don't believe you. you see look at the history of christianity's hate, murder etc. How far back did you look? The early church, the first christians did non of that. THEY were the one's persecuted, THEY were the ones killed, etc. The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries.

You make a interesting argument...

You make the statement "The christianity YOU are talking about didn't exist until the gentiles PAGANIZED christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries."

So .. If this is true you admit that the Christianity of today is a bastardized, intolerant, hatefull, version of its original self. ?? Right ?? This is from your own words.. If not .. Can you Cite exactly when it stopped being a pagan religion ? ? ? ? ?

Realy.. You say this.. And yet you ask us why we "Attack Christianity" Isn't it obvious ? We "Attack" It because it is exactly what you say it is .. "PAGANIZED" etc.. Among many many other reasons.

You sir just called Christianity a pagan religion. You may not realize this but you did.

 

Also hip-hop IS more than a musical styling, it IS a religion, you need to do your homework.

Yea..... Ok Music is a religion.... Um.. And the moon is made of cheese (Both your statement here and mine are equally valid.. Errr cough)


I was completely shocked when i saw that. stop worshipping Jesus? Stop calling on His name? how can anybody say that this music isn't the devil!!!!!

Easy.... 1. The devil doesn't exist . 2. No proof of the devil or god. .

You seem to shock easy mate.. Personally what shocks me more then music like this is What the bible says you should do to a rape victim. = Execution....

Also what shocks me even more then that is organized religions blatant cover ups/downplaying/assistance/protection from prosecution/ of their priests molesting children.... That sir shocks me a hell of a lot more then any lyrics in a song i have ever heard.

EDIT!!!!!

"the Christianity you fight is the latter formed roman paganized Christianity, which is not the Christianity of the Bible."

Lol......Ok... The "Christianity" we fight is the latter formed roman paganized version.. Lol...... Hold that thought a second ill come back to it. Then you say.. It is not the Christianity of the bible..

Wow...... You really really have no clue who wrote and dictated what went into the bible.

1. translations and editing by at least 150 people

2. In 1604, King James of England called a conference at Hampton Court. In attendance were 47 scholars and clerics. The agenda was to organize the production of a bible that would satisfy the needs of all -- the clergy, the king, the common man. An ambitious goal, considering the widely disparate points of view each with a political investment.

3. The earliest parts of the bible have been attributed not to Jesus or Christians. But to common laws that were in effect for hundred of years before the so called jesus ever supposedly existed.

 

A note on number 2.. The king james version of the bible is what is used by the majority of people today. (As far as i am aware of). How nice that a KING and 47 other people got into a group and DECIDED what went into the bible and what did not go into the bible.

how... quaint....

 

All of this.. Is still the "Christianity" you represent.. The good..the bad and the exceedingly ugly..  

 (Feal free to replace represent with defending)

 

Source........ http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm 


 

 


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  I AM JESUS, Fuck you

  I AM JESUS, Fuck you Xains,

Please fellow atheists, love that enemy, them dumb fucks,

oh LORD they do not know what they do ....  


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JesusLovesYou wrote: Why

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth? Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back. If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity. Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?

 

You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

Spoken by a truely ignorant person who hasnt spent any time here at all. You really think the world centers around Jesus? Or is it that you are frustrated that the world's population of 6 billion dont all follow your god.

"Question with boldness even the existance of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear", Thomas Jefferson. Who also BTW equated the birth and death of Jesus to being in the same catigory as Minervia being born out of the brain of Jupiter.

What the members here are doing is challenging people to think for themselves without superstion. We are challenging them to think without a hand up their backs. Christianity is what most here deal with on a daily basis, but we dont give any superstion of any label of any religion a pass. If it sounds like fiction, it is fiction.

We treat claims of Allah picking the sex of the baby the same as ghosts knocking up girls and human flesh surviving rigor mortis the same as claims of multiple armed dieties. Fiction is fiction and if you want to understand why we call the Christian god fiction, we can help you understand.

But please do not be so delluded or jaded as to think that Jesus is special to us. We dont hate your fictional Jesus any more than we hate Harry Potter or Lex Luthor. We do hate, however, bad reasons, and bad logic that people use to justify absurd claims, not just your religion.

If you dont want any help understanding why we reject your god like all others, then we cant help you. But do not come in herr and hurl unfounded ignorant accusations about people you dont personally know.

We are perfectly capable of morality and goodness. We are capable of loving theists without liking the claims they make. We want to help humanity outgrow it's false need for Santa for adults. We dont think humanity needs Allah, or Yahwey or Vishnu or Jesus.

If you dont want our help, we cant help you. But do not accuse us of things we are not doing. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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How is Christianiy based on

How is Christianiy based on truth, everything that can be proven true in Christianity was already known to be true before Christianity. Everything else is a few journals written by some guys with nothing better to do. If you think hip-hop is a religion you're a moron. Maybe a culture? What song refers to white people as inferior, I haven't heard that one......Just for the record, most hip-hop fans would put Eminem somewhere in the top of their favorite rappers list. People here don't attack Islam as much because......duh, its not the dominant religion here, We've never had an Islamic president say we're not real Americans, We're not required to swear on the Koran at court, and Allah isn't printed on anything tax dollars pay for.

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mobius_thought
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JesusLovesYou wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth? Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back. If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity. Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?
You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.
Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist.
They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.
One need only watch RRS on ABC to understand this.
There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh.
That is antagonism.  {MOD EDIT: Formatting.} 


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mobius_thought

mobius_thought wrote:


 

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.

 

Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist.

 

They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.

 

One need only watch RRS on ABC to understand this.

 

There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh.

 

That is antagonism.



 

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mobius_thought

mobius_thought wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth? Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back. If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity. Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?

 

You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.

Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist

Just because you disagree does not mean you're right, and just because you don't like a concept does not mean it's wrong. Yes, some people here may in fact be antitheist, but to assert that atheism does not exist is useless.

Quote:

They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.

Category error: one cannot be compassionate or considerate to an idea. Compassion and consideration are reserved for people; ideas do not have feelings which may need to be considered, and are incapable of being in situations which may benefit from compassion. Separating your ego from your arguments will serve you well.

Openminded does not imply persuadable. We ARE open-minded; it's just that the arguments for religion are invalid, so we do not believe. We will, however, listen to any argument you care to articulate. Don't expect an easy ride, however; taken together, I don't think there are any pro-religion arguments the members of this site have not heard.

Quote:

There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh.

That is antagonism.

I would agree with you that misrepresenting a position is not a good counter-argument; as a matter of fact, it's a fallacy to do so. Which of your beliefs do you feel are misrepresented by people here? Going by your posts I assume you are Jewish; what parts of Judaism do you feel have been straw manned?

Can you explain how antagonism invalidates an argument? Why does saying "Your argument is horrible for reasons X, Y and Z, and you are ignorant for using it" invalidate the reasons X, Y and Z given that those reasons are logical? I admit that "ignorant" can be a loaded word, but why do valid reasons get dismissed just because you don't want to hear them or don't feel sufficiently respected by the response?

Hmm, I think I just answered my own question there.

Ridicule is a great tool for shedding light on bad ideas. As someone here once said, "if you don't want to be laughed at, don't hold laughable beliefs."

So my request: start a thread and state your beliefs, especially the beliefs you feel we have mischaracterized. We will then tell you why we do not believe them.

As an aside, mobius thought may be a perfect description of theology: reason that goes in a loop, turning back on itself. You can't get there from anywhere else, and you can't get anywhere else from there. I like it.

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JesusLovesYou is afraid of

JesusLovesYou is afraid of Christianity's latest competition: 5% nation of gods and earths! (Between you and me, it's just religious paranoia!)


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mobius_thought

mobius_thought wrote:
 

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.

Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist.

They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.

Hmmm... nope, I think I need to disagree here. I just don't care. It's something that's impossible to prove or disprove in either direction, so really, it's nothing more than an interesting mental exercize. If you've got some new thoughts for me to give consideration to, I'd love to hear it. 

Quote:
One need only watch RRS on ABC to understand this.

Now, see, that's just ridiculous. There are far more people here than those who've presented their opinions on television, and if you ask any ten of us, you'll probably get at least eight-to-fifteen opinions. 

Quote:
There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh.

Then why are you? 

Quote:
That is antagonism.

Or humor, but usually the humor involved is also partly poking fun at ourselves. After all, we're all human, we're all capable of latching onto beliefs without definitive proof, and we're all capable of (and indeed, almost certainly have) stubbornly refusing to admit when we're wrong.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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mobius_thought

mobius_thought wrote:

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism. Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist.

 

I am atheist because there is more supporting evidence to suggest that storks deliver babies than there is to support the conjecture that any invisible sky genie exists.

I am antitheist because any form of theism is parasitic to society. There are no exceptions.

Quote:
They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.

Atheists are not, under any circumstances, required to be neutral to religion. Despite what you might be thinking, it is not bigotry to hold all philosophies to the same level of scrutiny. While real philosophies (whether social, economic, political or scientific) are based on the observation of evidence and the application of logic, spiritual philosophies are based on apophenia derived from emotional inspiration, that voluntary schizophrenia thests call religious faith and wishing really, really hard to an invisible sky genie.

Its not much of a comparison.

The reality is mainstream theists (whether Christian, Catholic, Muslim or even Wiccan) only serve to enable the religious extremists by accpeting, establishing, maintaining and promoting the social dependency on religious faith and all things faithful to religion.

If atheists don't feel that such a malignant status quo doesn't need to be challenged or changed, they damn well should.

Quote:
One need only watch RRS on ABC to understand this. There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh. That is antagonism.

 

And we all know how theists just accept and encourage rational thinking into every part of their daily lives, don't we? Theists just take to rationality like lions take to a wounded cow, don't they?

Pointing out the absurdity of religion and the social irresponsibility of attempting to validate social application using something as irrational as spiritual conjecture is nothing to be ashamed of.

 As for why do I attack Christianity? I attack Christianity because it is the only religion in America that pretends to be a political default. 


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JesusLovesYou wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth? Have you actually READ the Bible?

 

Hmm do I supposed to be amused by this or depressed ? Well the problem is you have no self reflection all religions proclaim to be "The only true religion !" while the rest is made up by their version of evil unicorns or something.

besides to amuse the RRS and give you a understanding of reality I quote this satire ( http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Allah:_The_Annotated_Version )

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth? Have you actually READ the Bible?

"In recent years the outrageous anti-Christian jihad has only grown in intensity. The aggressiveness of this "holy war" is characteristic of the religion that spawned it. The ultimate aim of the jihad is to invade every land in the world, destroy all traces of Christianity, make these places into bastions of Islamism and Allah-worship, and then to spread their lies even farther. There is no room for tolerance or coexistence in the religion of Islamism.

Genocide is the only way for them to seed the world with their evil. Their warlike and intolerant god commands it.

The only way for righteous followers of the Lord to protect themselves is to stop the scourge of Islamism at its source. The ultimate aim of our crusade must be to invade every land in the world, destroy all traces of the Islamistism, make these places into bastions of Christianity and Jesus-worship, and then to spread the Word of God even farther. There is no room for tolerance or coexistence with the religion of Islamism.
Genocide is the only way to cleanse the world of their evil. Our peaceful and tolerant God commands it.
Amen. "

JesusLovesYou wrote:
You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

 

 

Don’t type in all caps. And get some self reflection or read this article to get a better understanding of your beliefs http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Allah:_The_Annotated_Version .

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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I AM GOD AS YOU
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 Hey JesusLovesYou Big J

 Hey JesusLovesYou

Big J would say to you, "Get behind me Satan" , as he said to Peter, (you are wrong) 

Jesus was an Atheist ! What Bible are you reading .... ??????????????????????????????????


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mobius_thought

mobius_thought wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth?  Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back.  If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity.  Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction? 

You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!! 

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.

Your post doesn't seem to be in response to anything.

mobius_thought wrote:

Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist.

Atheism regards belief, not approval. An atheist can be against theism, or counter-intuitively, for it. They just can't believe in it.

mobius_thought wrote:

They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.

Neutrality isn't required, but a person neutral to theism (even if only because they're ignorant of it) would still be an atheist.

mobius_thought wrote:

One need only watch RRS on ABC to understand this.

There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh. 

That is antagonism.  

You're jumping around now... again, none of this affects the definition of "atheism."


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JesusLovesYou wrote: Why

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy...

Because it's the moral thing to do. 

- Brian Sapient


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latincanuck wrote:WOW,

latincanuck wrote:

WOW, KRS-ONE when the hell did i hear from him in the hip hop community? oh yeah freaking like 10 years ago

 

Psshh... No true hip-hop fan could EVER disparage KRS-One this way. He is in the uppermost echelon of MC's of all TIME. A level, IMO, populated only by himself, Mos Def, and Tupac (Some would disagree on that last one).

 

I mean, Human Education Against Lies? The Temple of Hip-Hop? "Self-destruction don't pay the *#@%ing rent!" ? He was, to my recollection, the FIRST one to be called a "Conscious rapper." He took the original 4 elements of hip-hop, and turned it into 9 elements, which incorporated not only a sense of street ethics, but also of responsibility, self-reliance, independence, and entrepeneurialsim.

 He's the freaking KING. He doesn't NEED to make records anymore. His name lives forEVER, in the legacy that he's left us.  


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shikko

shikko wrote:
mobius_thought wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do you attack Christianitiy when it is a religion based on truth? Have you actually READ the Bible? and I mean read by digging into it, not just looking at the words from front to back. If you just look at the words from front to back you just skim the surface and come to the wrong conclusions about Christianity. Why do you not attack religions such as Hip-Hop, or 5% nation of gods and earths (part of hip-hop) which are soley based around making the white man inferior and deifying the black man. THATS what you should be attacking!!! Why don't you attack Islam, the religion based upon hate, death, and destruction?

 

You people have NO IDEA what you are doing!!!!

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.

Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist

Just because you disagree does not mean you're right, and just because you don't like a concept does not mean it's wrong. Yes, some people here may in fact be antitheist, but to assert that atheism does not exist is useless.

 

Hey, we can only believe in what we see, right?

Okay, so I can say that I have seen no reason to believe that atheism exists. Six of one, half dozen of the other, take your pick..

Quote:

Quote:

They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.

Category error: one cannot be compassionate or considerate to an idea. Compassion and consideration are reserved for people; ideas do not have feelings which may need to be considered, and are incapable of being in situations which may benefit from compassion. Separating your ego from your arguments will serve you well.

 

Clearly, the bit about compassion WAS meant in reference to people, but thanks for proving my point FOR me. A respectful conversation includes people giving each other the benefit of the doubt. Antagonisic people, on the other hand, are going to jump on any little perceived error they can find, including typos, or PERCEIVED typos. 

Quote:
Openminded does not imply persuadable. We ARE open-minded; it's just that the arguments for religion are invalid, so we do not believe. We will, however, listen to any argument you care to articulate. Don't expect an easy ride, however; taken together, I don't think there are any pro-religion arguments the members of this site have not heard.

Of course, there is a difference. But a person can never learn what they think they already know, and this is why I think the term "open-mindeness" (in context of a lack thereof) is still appropriate. I'm with the prophet Rufus from the movie "Dogma"-

It's better to have ideas than beliefs. Ideas can be changed.

I appreciate the offer, and will keep it in mind, should a situation arise where I don't think I'll be written off immediately just for being a theist. At this point, I don't you all well enough to get too deep into it.

 

 

Quote:
Quote:

There is nothing "rational" about it. Rationality doesn't need to misrepresent or caricaturize others' beliefs, in order to win a debate or get a laugh.

That is antagonism.

I would agree with you that misrepresenting a position is not a good counter-argument; as a matter of fact, it's a fallacy to do so. Which of your beliefs do you feel are misrepresented by people here?

Perhaps I misspoke. I was referring again to the ABC thing. While I cannot FATHOM how.. Oh what's his name... Kirk Cameron's buddy... thought those were his best points to go on TV and defend theism, at the same time, YOUR side did not confine ITself to "rational" behavior either. Thus I bring it up here, since your sites are crosslinked and they have no forum.

Quote:

Can you explain how antagonism invalidates an argument?

It's not that it invalidates it. It simply undermines it. It turns the 'centrists', anyone trying to make UP their mind off to your way of thinking, just the same as the Christian preacher trying to shove HIS beliefs down your throats.

I suppose perhaps it would be to my favor to not speak of such things, but just as the sun has no need to fear a shadow, neither are my beliefs at any risk by people believing otherwise, so I do feel comfortable telling you how you could put a better face on your belief system. 

Quote:

Ridicule is a great tool for shedding light on bad ideas.

*shrug* I suppose in the absence of the love, it could be seen as such. Why those so angered by the CHURCH'S lack of love, would then spead the same contempt for others, is beyond me, though.

I share that contempt for so many horrible things done in the name of religion (mostly in the name of the Catholic church). But what *I* do with that is internalize it, and try to show a greater sense of tolerance than what those people shown.

That tolerance may be here for some, but it certainly isn't universal. I have no doubt that if the most extremist intolerant of atheists were to somehow take power over the world, or the country, they would begin the same awful persecutions OF religious people that have formerly (and currently, for that matter) done BY religious people. 

 

Quote:
As an aside, mobius thought may be a perfect description of theology: reason that goes in a loop, turning back on itself. You can't get there from anywhere else, and you can't get anywhere else from there. I like it.

Interesting. I've had the name, and the email address, for 15 years now(come to think of it, it was WHEN I claimed to be an atheist that I got the address), and it seems to mean something different to every person that sees it.  Just FYI, my meaning is this-

We all start out different places, and if we stop moving forward, and look over the edge, it will appear that there is "another side" which must, then, be our enemy. But if we return to our journey, and just keep moving, we'll soon find that we all hit all the same points.